Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-25 by Diego Ragnini

Hi everybody,

I recently started to think about an application with this module, though I didn't try it yet. I summarize the idea.

Let's say that one is playing solo guitar notes and aims at reproducing the concerned gates, envelopes and pitches just “delayed”, that is after a certain elapsed time, something between 600ms and 1500ms. The result would be kind of echoes and shades taking place with different sound and timbre.

I have found few modules which can perform the time shift of gates and/or triggers, but cannot figure out how to time shift the envelopes (!)

Another issue would be the conversion audio pitch --> V/Oct: I wasn't able to find anything on modular grid. I usually used the Korg MS-20 ext input interface for this purpose but in some circumstances it would be more practical to keep everything within the modular and use the Korg module for other purposes.

Any hint is much appreciated.

Best,

Diego

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-25 by Florian Anwander

On 25.02.17 11:24 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

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cannot figure out how to time shift the envelopes (!)

This one might shift CVs,

http://www.schneidersladen.de/de/synthesis-technology-e102.html

But let me ask a silly question: why don't you simply send the audiosignale of your "guitarsynth" into an audiodelay. Or did I misunterstand something?

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-25 by Diego Ragnini

because it would be the same sound, I want a replica with another timbre

Il giorno 25/feb/2017, alle ore 16:59, "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

On 25.02.17 11:24 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:
cannot figure out how to time shift the envelopes (!)

This one might shift CVs,

http://www.schneidersladen.de/de/synthesis-technology-e102.html

But let me ask a silly question: why don't you simply send the audiosignale of your "guitarsynth" into an audiodelay. Or did I misunterstand something?

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-25 by Florian Anwander

On 25.02.17 18:21 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

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because it would be the same sound, I want a replica with another timbre

Either you (or me ;-) ) misunderstand: You have your guitar, you convert it to a CVs and Envelopes. These CVs and Envelopes do control two different synthsounds at the same time. Synthsound 1 is played immediately. Synthsound 2 is sent to an audio delay and will be played later....

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-25 by Diego Ragnini

Florian, thanks for suggesting that module

I am afraid I didn't explain myself enough: the target is to have the same guitar “melody” repeated, one second later, by the means of another sound, not replaced by it.

Il giorno 25/feb/2017, alle ore 21:18, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

On 25.02.17 18:21 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

because it would be the same sound, I want a replica with another timbre

Either you (or me ;-) ) misunderstand: You have your guitar, you convert it to a CVs and Envelopes. These CVs and Envelopes do control two different synthsounds at the same time. Synthsound 1 is played immediately. Synthsound 2 is sent to an audio delay and will be played later....

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-26 by Florian Anwander

Hello Diego,

On 25.02.17 23:22 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

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I am afraid I didn't explain myself enough: the target is to have the same guitar “melody” repeated, one second later, by the means of another sound, not replaced by it.

Even then: send the guitar to a 6,35mm multiple, one cable direct to the mixer. The other cable goes to your Guitar-to-CV-device, from there with pitch-following voltage, the envelope-following voltage and Gate to your synth, from the synth-audio-out into the one-second-audio-delay. And at the delay out there it is: a synth signal following your guitar one second later.

What I want to say: a real CV-delay is needed only if you want to split two characteristics of one signal in time. Let us say: You want the pitch have without the delay, but the envelope-voltage should come xxx seconds later.
To be honest: I doubt that somebody would want that.

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-27 by Diego Ragnini

Hi Florian,

just need to copy gates+envelopes+pitches from the guitar session, time-shift them and finally assign them to the desired sound source. Bloody simple, fortunately possible by the means of E102 Quad Temporal Shifter. Shift register, cool! Didn't know that, thanks. And it's good new that what we want to do is not so much among others' ambitions…

LOL

Thanks for the precious exchange...

dxx

Il giorno 26/feb/2017, alle ore 17:09, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

Hello Diego,

On 25.02.17 23:22 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:
I am afraid I didn't explain myself enough: the target is to have the same guitar “melody” repeated, one second later, by the means of another sound, not replaced by it.

Even then: send the guitar to a 6,35mm multiple, one cable direct to the mixer. The other cable goes to your Guitar-to-CV-device, from there with pitch-following voltage, the envelope-following voltage and Gate to your synth, from the synth-audio-out into the one-second-audio-delay. And at the delay out there it is: a synth signal following your guitar one second later.

What I want to say: a real CV-delay is needed only if you want to split two characteristics of one signal in time. Let us say: You want the pitch have without the delay, but the envelope-voltage should come xxx seconds later.
To be honest: I doubt that somebody would want that.

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-27 by Florian Anwander

Hello Diego

On 27.02.17 19:10 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

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just need to copy gates+envelopes+pitches from the guitar session, time-shift them

What is here "just"? You will need three delays (one for the gate, one for envelopes, one for pitch) and those three delays are not synchonized.

To say it in theoretical words: there is no difference whether you delay the command or the result. But in this case delaying the command is extremely complicated (think of the syncing), and will be very expensive: about 750 Euros for two voltage delays and one gate delay, versus 50 euros for a Behringer delay stompbox?

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-27 by Diego Ragnini

Florian, it seems you care about the matter more than me. Thanks! I believed that the module you suggested worked for the 3 functions together and sync'ed: I discover I was wrong. Since I don't mean to delay the guitar sound, using an audio delay unit I might be able to process the delayed signal through the MS20 ext signal processor and obtain the wanted result...

Best,

dxx

Il giorno 27/feb/2017, alle ore 22:23, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

Hello Diego

On 27.02.17 19:10 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:

just need to copy gates+envelopes+pitches from the guitar session, time-shift them

What is here "just"? You will need three delays (one for the gate, one for envelopes, one for pitch) and those three delays are not synchonized.

To say it in theoretical words: there is no difference whether you delay the command or the result. But in this case delaying the command is extremely complicated (think of the syncing), and will be very expensive: about 750 Euros for two voltage delays and one gate delay, versus 50 euros for a Behringer delay stompbox?

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-27 by David Kellett

I think that sounds the wrong way around. Play the guitar and create the CVs and gates from that to play the synth. The synth is exactly in time with the guitar. Put the synth voice into the delay. The synth voice now follows the guitar with a delay. Isn't that what you want?



www.movingisliving.co.uk

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 27 Feb 2017, at 21:40, Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Florian, it seems you care about the matter more than me. Thanks! I believed that the module you suggested worked for the 3 functions together and sync'ed: I discover I was wrong. Since I don't mean to delay the guitar sound, using an audio delay unit I might be able to process the delayed signal through the MS20 ext signal processor and obtain the wanted result...
> 
> 
> Best, 
> dxx
> 
> 
>> Il giorno 27/feb/2017, alle ore 22:23, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:
>> 
>>  
>> Hello Diego
>> 
>> 
>>> On 27.02.17 19:10 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:
>>>  
>>> just need to copy gates+envelopes+pitches from the guitar session, time-shift them
>> What is here "just"? You will need three delays (one for the gate, one for envelopes, one for pitch) and  those three delays are not synchonized.
>> 
>> To say it in theoretical words: there is no difference whether you delay the command or the result. But in this case delaying the command is extremely complicated (think of the syncing), and will be very expensive: about 750 Euros for two voltage delays and one gate delay, versus 50 euros for a Behringer delay stompbox? 
>> 
>> Florian
>> 
> 
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-27 by Diego Ragnini

yes that's possible as well, the result likely would be as good as the way I described
many thanks !

Inviato da iPad

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Il giorno 27 feb 2017, alle ore 23:13, David Kellett davidkellettwoulf@yahoo.com [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:
> 
> I think that sounds the wrong way around. Play the guitar and create the CVs and gates from that to play the synth. The synth is exactly in time with the guitar. Put the synth voice into the delay. The synth voice now follows the guitar with a delay. Isn't that what you want?
> 
> 
> 
> www.movingisliving.co.uk
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
>> On 27 Feb 2017, at 21:40, Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Florian, it seems you care about the matter more than me. Thanks! I believed that the module you suggested worked for the 3 functions together and sync'ed: I discover I was wrong. Since I don't mean to delay the guitar sound, using an audio delay unit I might be able to process the delayed signal through the MS20 ext signal processor and obtain the wanted result...
>> 
>> 
>> Best, 
>> dxx
>> 
>> 
>>> Il giorno 27/feb/2017, alle ore 22:23, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Hello Diego
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 27.02.17 19:10 , Diego Ragnini diegora@free.fr [Doepfer_a100] wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> just need to copy gates+envelopes+pitches from the guitar session, time-shift them
>>> What is here "just"? You will need three delays (one for the gate, one for envelopes, one for pitch) and  those three delays are not synchonized.
>>> 
>>> To say it in theoretical words: there is no difference whether you delay the command or the result. But in this case delaying the command is extremely complicated (think of the syncing), and will be very expensive: about 750 Euros for two voltage delays and one gate delay, versus 50 euros for a Behringer delay stompbox? 
>>> 
>>> Florian
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-28 by Florian Anwander

Hello Diego

yes that's possible as well, the result likely would be as good as the way I described

many thanks !

I think that sounds the wrong way around. Play the guitar and create the CVs and gates from that to play the synth. The synth is exactly in time with the guitar. Put the synth voice into the delay. The synth voice now follows the guitar with a delay. Isn't that what you want?

That is what I tried to tell you all the time: Delay the synth, not the controlsignals.

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Doepfer A-119 Application

2017-02-28 by Diego Ragnini

I didn't get it sooner because sometimes people do not match up with expectations !

:-)

Il giorno 28/feb/2017, alle ore 10:27, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

Hello Diego

yes that's possible as well, the result likely would be as good as the way I described

many thanks !

I think that sounds the wrong way around. Play the guitar and create the CVs and gates from that to play the synth. The synth is exactly in time with the guitar. Put the synth voice into the delay. The synth voice now follows the guitar with a delay. Isn't that what you want?

That is what I tried to tell you all the time: Delay the synth, not the controlsignals.

Florian