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Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by swomp_rabbit@sbcglobal.net

Well there you are you trouble maker you!! Just kidding....Just kidding. (Ha)
Man - we need some Smiley Faces around here so people know what you mean when you say something.
Michael - you don't owe anyone any apologies. You haven't started a firestorm either. That accusation will fall to me I am afraid if this one really blows. Now poor Ricci, that's another matter. (Ha) Probably feels like they stepped off the train into a pile of poo-poo! Yea - that one falls to me also. I apparantly have asked a "Poo-Poo" question. (Ha again)
You just keep on truckin' with them 80's tunes Michael and stay tuned.
SwompRabbit
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

I started all this mess so my sincere apologies for
that. Initially I had only wanted to "trade"
sequences I had made for other
songs in the 80's era (covers, not originals). Does
anyone know if that is ok, trading I mean as opposed
to buying?

Any information is appreciated and I honestly didn't
mean to start a firestorm here, again I'm sorry about
that, I just play in
an 80's band and was hoping to share some of my work
and add a few new songs to my bands set list without
having to
program for hours..and hours...etc. I don't mind
doing the work it's just that I rarely have that kind
of free time. That's all
this was really about.

Thanks everyone

Michael

RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by MichaelL33@prodigy.net

I started all this mess so my sincere apologies for 
that.  Initially I had only wanted to "trade" 
sequences I had made for other
songs in the 80's era (covers, not originals).  Does 
anyone know if that is ok, trading I mean as opposed 
to buying?

Any information is appreciated and I honestly didn't 
mean to start a firestorm here, again I'm sorry about 
that, I just play in 
an 80's band and was hoping to share some of my work 
and add a few new songs to my bands set list without 
having to 
program for hours..and hours...etc.  I don't mind 
doing the work it's just that I rarely have that kind 
of free time.  That's all
this was really about.

Thanks everyone

Michael

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by swomp_rabbit@sbcglobal.net

Sorry Michael - missed giving you my take on your question about the songs! Unfortunately, you probably ain’t going to like my answer.

Bottom line……

Doesn’t matter whether you are trading them, giving them away or selling them - if it is a previously recorded/published song the law requires that it has to be licensed prior to any of those acts. If you create a sequence of some previously published song in your home, which is what you are doing, and it goes no further than that, then that is no problem and no licenses are required. Once it leaves the house and is played publicly or you distribute it then everything changes.

On a prior website I offered free MP3 files of previously published songs (covers). I had to license the songs and for each of those songs downloaded pay the going royalty rate .085 cents per downloaded song to the Administrator of the license of each song.

Obviously you may not like what you read here so before you decide to come after me and kill me because of these laws – just remember they aren’t my laws. Also, a large segment of the population thinks these laws suck so consequently any discussion of them usually brings chaos, hate mongering and discontent to the discussion. Nevertheless…..!!

SwompRabbit

Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

Well there you are you trouble maker you!! Just kidding....Just kidding. (Ha)
Man - we need some Smiley Faces around here so people know what you mean when you say something.
Michael - you don't owe anyone any apologies. You haven't started a firestorm either. That accusation will fall to me I am afraid if this one really blows. Now poor Ricci, that's another matter. (Ha) Probably feels like they stepped off the train into a pile of poo-poo! Yea - that one falls to me also. I apparantly have asked a "Poo-Poo" question. (Ha again)
You just keep on truckin' with them 80's tunes Michael and stay tuned.
SwompRabbit
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

I started all this mess so my sincere apologies for
that. Initially I had only wanted to "trade"
sequences I had made for other
songs in the 80's era (covers, not originals). Does
anyone know if that is ok, trading I mean as opposed
to buying?

Any information is appreciated and I honestly didn't
mean to start a firestorm here, again I'm sorry about
that, I just play in
an 80's band and was hoping to share some of my work
and add a few new songs to my bands set list without
having to
program for hours..and hours...etc. I don't mind
doing the work it's just that I rarely have that kind
of free time. That's all
this was really about.

Thanks everyone

Michael

RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by EXT-Schurr, Larry A

Funny thing about the Law:  whenever the gavel comes down, one side
loses.  Lawyers, by definition, work on a 50% failure rate.  No other
profession gets away with that.  Yet they're treated like "experts"...
go figure.
 
That said, "leaves the house" is not a standard of challenge.  Nor is
"played publicly".
 
For that matter "previously recorded" and even "song" is wide open for
interpretations and total exemptions of unenforcibility.  
 
Once it's been on the radio, the real legal changes start... dirty
little secret.
 
L.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
	-----Original Message-----
	From: swomp_rabbit@... 
	 

	 

	Doesn't matter whether you are trading them, giving them away or
selling them - if it is a previously recorded/published song the law
requires that it has to be licensed prior to any of those acts. If you
create a sequence of some previously published song in your home, which
is what you are doing, and it goes no further than that, then that is no
problem and no licenses are required. Once it leaves the house and is
played publicly or you distribute it then everything changes.

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by swomp_rabbit@sbcglobal.net

Leaving the letter of the law and getting to the reality of it - I can certainly agree with that assessment.
SR
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

Funny thing about the Law: whenever the gavel comes down, one side loses. Lawyers, by definition, work on a 50% failure rate. No other profession gets away with that. Yet they're treated like "experts"... go figure.
That said, "leaves the house" is not a standard of challenge. Nor is "played publicly".
For that matter "previously recorded" and even "song" is wide open for interpretations and total exemptions of unenforcibility.
Once it's been on the radio, the real legal changes start... dirty little secret.
L.
-----Original Message-----
From: swomp_rabbit@...

Doesn’t matter whether you are trading them, giving them away or selling them - if it is a previously recorded/published song the law requires that it has to be licensed prior to any of those acts. If you create a sequence of some previously published song in your home, which is what you are doing, and it goes no further than that, then that is no problem and no licenses are required. Once it leaves the house and is played publicly or you distribute it then everything changes.

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-15 by MichaelL33@prodigy.net

Hey Swomp,

No really that's fine, and I do appreciate the info 
it's just that I didn't know.  Seems there is quite a 
bit of 
legal grey area when it comes to music and that's a 
shame really.  It's hard to know when you're doing 
the right thing or not.  It seems like you can get 
into some big trouble without even knowing it.  Yeeeow!

Michael
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/15/2005 5:17:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?


Sorry Michael - missed giving you my take on your 
question about the songs! Unfortunately, you probably 
ain\ufffdt going to like my answer.

 

Bottom line\ufffd\ufffd

 

Doesn\ufffdt matter whether you are trading them, giving 
them away or selling them - if it is a previously 
recorded/published song the law requires that it has 
to be licensed prior to any of those acts. If you 
create a sequence of some previously published song in 
your home, which is what you are doing, and it goes no 
further than that, then that is no problem and no 
licenses are required. Once it leaves the house and is 
played publicly or you distribute it then everything 
changes.

 

On a prior website I offered free MP3 files of 
previously published songs (covers). I had to license 
the songs and for each of those songs downloaded pay 
the going royalty rate .085 cents per downloaded song 
to the Administrator of the license of each song.

 

Obviously you may not like what you read here so 
before you decide to come after me and kill me because 
of these laws \ufffd just remember they aren\ufffdt my laws. 
Also, a large segment of the population thinks these 
laws suck so consequently any discussion of them 
usually brings chaos, hate mongering and discontent to 
the discussion. Nevertheless\ufffd..!!

 

SwompRabbit

----- Original Message ----- 
From: swomp_rabbit@... 
To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?


Well there you are you trouble maker you!! Just 
kidding....Just kidding. (Ha)

Man - we need some Smiley Faces around here so people 
know what you mean when you say something.

Michael - you don't owe anyone any apologies.  You 
haven't started a firestorm either. That accusation 
will fall to me I am afraid if this one really blows. 
Now poor Ricci, that's another matter. (Ha) Probably 
feels like they stepped off the train into a pile of 
poo-poo! Yea - that one falls to me also. I apparantly 
have asked a "Poo-Poo" question. (Ha again)

You just keep on truckin' with them 80's tunes Michael 
and stay tuned.

SwompRabbit

----- Original Message ----- 
From: MichaelL33@... 
To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?


I started all this mess so my sincere apologies for 
that.  Initially I had only wanted to "trade" 
sequences I had made for other
songs in the 80's era (covers, not originals).  Does 
anyone know if that is ok, trading I mean as opposed 
to buying?

Any information is appreciated and I honestly didn't 
mean to start a firestorm here, again I'm sorry about 
that, I just play in 
an 80's band and was hoping to share some of my work 
and add a few new songs to my bands set list without 
having to 
program for hours..and hours...etc.  I don't mind 
doing the work it's just that I rarely have that kind 
of free time.  That's all
this was really about.

Thanks everyone

Michael 




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RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-16 by EXT-Schurr, Larry A

Well put!
 
It's to the point that no one actually cares what's codifed into Law,
but only the pertinent caselaw which somehow seems to trump everything
else.
It didn't start out that way, but it seems to be what we have today.  
 
Ohwell...
 
L.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
	-----Original Message-----
	From: swomp_rabbit@sbcglobal.net
[mailto:swomp_rabbit@...] 
	Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:02 PM
	To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
	Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?
	
	
	Leaving the letter of the law and getting to the reality of it -
I can certainly agree with that assessment.
	 
	SR
	 
	----- Original Message ----- 

		From: EXT-Schurr, Larry A
<mailto:larry.a.schurr@...>  
		To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
		Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:39 PM
		Subject: RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] RE: 80's Anyone?

		Funny thing about the Law:  whenever the gavel comes
down, one side loses.  Lawyers, by definition, work on a 50% failure
rate.  No other profession gets away with that.  Yet they're treated
like "experts"... go figure.
		 
		That said, "leaves the house" is not a standard of
challenge.  Nor is "played publicly".
		 
		For that matter "previously recorded" and even "song" is
wide open for interpretations and total exemptions of unenforcibility.  
		 
		Once it's been on the radio, the real legal changes
start... dirty little secret.
		 
		L.

			-----Original Message-----
			From: swomp_rabbit@sbcglobal.net 
			 

			 

			Doesn't matter whether you are trading them,
giving them away or selling them - if it is a previously
recorded/published song the law requires that it has to be licensed
prior to any of those acts. If you create a sequence of some previously
published song in your home, which is what you are doing, and it goes no
further than that, then that is no problem and no licenses are required.
Once it leaves the house and is played publicly or you distribute it
then everything changes.

Re: RE: 80's Anyone?

2005-08-16 by Steve Wahl

On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 04:16:45PM -0500, swomp_rabbit@... wrote:
>  
> ... if it is a previously recorded/published song the law
> requires that it has to be licensed prior to any of those acts. If
> you create a sequence of some previously published song in your
> home, which is what you are doing, and it goes no further than that,
> then that is no problem and no licenses are required. 

I'm not even sure that's entirely accurate.  By the letter of the law,
what is protected is making copies of the song -- I believe the words
actually go something like "fixing the work in a tangible medium".  As
I understand it, creating the sequence in your own home actually is a
copyright infringement.  (You might have to put it on a floppy to make
it tangible, I don't know.)

We ran into this same legal / ethical discussion at church when it
comes to writing down our own private, arranged parts for extra
instruments on songs we already purchased sheet music for.  (The
discussion didn't start there, but it's one of the things that came
up.)

The bottom line for us was: we aren't really cheating the publisher,
we are paying them for the song, through purchasing the original music
(enough copies for everyone who plays / sings) -- so we're OK with it
ethically; the effort to actually acquire rights is not worth it; and
no publisher in their right mind would sue a paying customer for
something like this without at least asking us nicely to stop
first. :-)

And as far as making a sequence at home goes, you are not making any
money at it.  That is not a legal defense, but it does mean that you
are not worth the money / lawyer time to sue, so the publisher will
leave you alone.

If you use your sequence live, hopefully your venue has paid ASCAP/BMI
"dues" or whatever (what it's called escapes me at the moment), to
cover live performances of the songs.  If so, you can see yet again
that suing you for making the sequence would cut off a portion of
their revenues from the venue, so they wouldn't do that in their right
mind, either...

I'm not a lawyer, btw!  So take all that with a huge grain of salt.

--> Steve

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