Yahoo Groups archive

Fairlight-CMI

Index last updated: 2026-04-29 00:03 UTC

Thread

Re: [[Fairlight-CMI] Re: OT - Waveframe, Synclavier]

Re: [[Fairlight-CMI] Re: OT - Waveframe, Synclavier]

2004-03-25 by Splitpoint

"pmjtaysom" <philip@taysom.co.uk> wrote:
> 

> 
> On the plus side:
> 
> 1) The Synclavier is still being developed for - and with the Demas
> PCI interface means it is, imho, the best integrated sampler there is
> - I have over 30gb of sample data instantly available on a set of
> drives in my mac (which means I can back them up using modern media
> like DVD's or accross my network to a backup server), fully searchable
> and with an indexing system that, while a little old fashioned, still
> seriously powerful to use. Despite the efforts of superstars like
> Peter Wielk, the Fairlight is becomming difficult to keep going.
> 

The one thing that concerns me about the Fairlight series III is the scsi 
interface and disk space.  My Waveframe has 36GB (9GBx4)online and can 
use pretty much any scsi device available, exabyte 8 mm tape is built 
into the system for backup.  From what I've read the maximum disk size is 
4GB and the Fairlight will only recognize certain drives. Is there any 
other backup method for the Fairlight besides the streamer tape?  How 
fast are the sample load times from the scsi interface?

> 2) The sound quality of the 9600 has to be heard to be believed with
> 100khz as standard and a fantastic noise floor it's way quieter than
> my new MPC4000 or the E4 Platinum I have - I sat down today to
> implement noise gates as standard on my ProTools configuration (lots
> of noisy old synths) - with the CMI IIx the threshold has to be up
> quite some way in order to bite (I forgive it - it's old but I love
> it!) - with the Series III, less so but still noticable - with the
> Synclavier I gave up and took the gate off - there was so little noise
> that there was no point using the CPU cycles for the graphical 
interface!
> 


It's interesting that you would say that, I can definitely hear the 
difference between an EIV compared to the Waveframe as well.  The 
Waveframe is the quietest piece of gear that I have but colors the sound 
in a good way and sounds amazingly better than the cheaper stuff.  Seems 
like once you've heard he higher end samplers (Synclavier, Fairlight, 
Waveframe and even the orginal EIII) it changes your whole perspective on 
the cheaper samplers (I used to have ayamaha a4000 and an E64) I think it 
is the quality of the components used in their construction the makes the 
difference.


> 3) The sample libraries are incredible on the Synclavier - I have the
> Lucas Film, Strings, Mega Timbres, Master Class - etc - and they're
> still available and being enhanced. Despite scrounging every sample I
> can for the Fairlights, the libraries are in a differeny league -
> sorry, in my experience they are.


I'm most interested in sampling and processing my own sounds so the 
library doesn't really mean that much to me.  User interface and sound 
mean everything to me which brings us to:


> 4) The user interface is *way* more useable - the 9600 VPK keyboard
> provides a load of switches on the front panel - want to reduce the
> attack on a sample?  Press a button and turn the jog wheel. Want to
> record a sequence?  Just hit record and it'll create a new track,
> Build a multisample from four different parts?  Simply press a few
> buttons on the front panel without ever taking your eyes of the
> musical keyboard - hundreds of editing features are instantly
> available from the front panel without looking at the Mac screen /
> navigating windows / fumble with a pen - with the Series III I find
> I'm forever trying to remember which F key menu set what I'm looking
> for is in and that's with an MFX2 alpha keyboard!


Any of you other folks care to comment on the Fairlight user interface?  
What do you like about it and what do you hate about it? One of the 
things that I really like about the Waveframe is that all of the options 
are very tightly integrated, it's easy to switch between the different 
modules and everything works in sync.  I can record sounds in either the 
sampler or disk recorder and seamlessly move sounds between them.  I can 
use the event processor to trigger sample recording in real time (dialog, 
vocals, etc) and have them play back in perfect sync to the disk recorder 
or sequencer, all of the modules can be live and on the screen at the 
same time.  The interface is very simple and clean.  How hard is it to 
move back and forth between the pages on the Fairlight?  Does the system 
remember what you were doing before you changed tasks?  Are the screen 
updates fast?


> 
> On the negative side:
> 
> 1) A 9600 will, complete and fully serviced, set you back the best
> part of £20,000 - a Series III around £5,000. Then again, a fully
> loaded 9600 was circa £350,000 in 1994 and a Series III around £80,000
>  (ISTR) - says it all really!
> 
> 2) The cost of replacement parts for the Synclavier is incredible -
> things like the voice cards ares still manufactured by Demas - but
> they're hellishly expensive (£4,500 for the PCI upgrade!!!).


This is why I orignially went with the Waveframe.  The parts prices on 
the 9600 are unbelievable, even compared to Fairlight.  Waveframe parts 
are cheap in comparison.  Only drawback is that there is NO user support 
for the Waveframe, seams like me and one Michael Bard in California are 
the only Norht Americans using the 'Frame for music, everyone else is 
using them for ADR.


> 3) The Synclavier is HUGE and HEAVY - I mean REALLY HUGE and HEEAAVVY
> - I've had one of my 9600's repackaged into a 20U flightcase on wheels
> (because the drive packs aren't in the case (they're in the Mac) this
> cuts down on heat and therefore the need for ducting / fans etc and
> therefore space qnd weight).  A Series III is 'portable' in comparison!
>

Heh, the Waveframe fits right between these boxes when it comes to weight 
:)
 
> 
> I'll probably get flamed as a Fairlight hater - but I'm not - I dearly
> love my Series IIx and enjoy the stability of the III MFX2 - BUT the
> Synclavier is just different.
> 
> Some people sit down with the Fairlight, pick up the pen and love the
> thing - then sit at the Synclavier and find it old fashioned and hard
> to use.
> 


Never had a problem with the Synclavier's interface, I've only used one a 
couple of times back in college but was able to get up to speed quickly.


> IMHO - if you can afford a 9600 - buy one - they're rare, sound
> stunning and are wonderful to use - it'll become the centre of your
> studio - if you can afford a Series III - buy one - they sound
> wonderful and are a piece of history.

9600 is out of the question at this point. I'm looking to add another 
high quality sampler to my existing setup that has a different sound than 
the Waveframe.  A 9600 is major overkill for this task.  A Series III 
seems to fit well as I don't need the disk recorder on the Synclavier.  
Is the 9600 available as a sampling system only?
 
> If people are interested, I'll see if I can bring the 'portable' 9600
> down to the Fairlight 2004 meet so people can see some of what I've
> explained very poorly.
> 
> Ok , flameproof underpants now on!  :-)

Don't need the flameproof underpants, all three systems are up to the 
task of music and post-production.  They are just different approaches to 
same task.   Wish I could make it to the 2004 meeting and hook up with 
you guys.
 
Thanks for your opinions Phillip, you've made me think about some things 
that I hadn't considered.

Al



What better way to drum up support for a 'war on terrorism'than try and scare
the living @#%$ out of innocent people. Oh wait...That IS terrorism.

[[Fairlight-CMI] Re: OT - Waveframe, Synclavier]

2004-03-25 by pmjtaysom

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, Splitpoint <splitpoint@u...> wrote:
> The one thing that concerns me about the Fairlight series III is the 
> scsi interface and disk space.  My Waveframe has 36GB (9GBx4)online 
> and can use pretty much any scsi device available, exabyte 8 mm tape 
> is built into the system for backup.  From what I've read the
> maximum disk size is 4GB and the Fairlight will only recognize
> certain drives. Is there any other backup method for the Fairlight 
> besides the streamer tape?  How fast are the sample load times from
> the scsi interface?

I understand the MaxOptics Tahiti drives work - I've got a T6 I was
going to try it out though I suspect it may not work and I'll have to
try and find a T5 somewhere.  T5 in native mode would give you around
2.5Gb of backup storage per cartridge (unformatted).

I know it's possible to support multiple devices on the SCSI bus so in
theory (someone correct me here?) you should be able to have 5 x 4gb
hard drives + a Tahiti backup device = 4 x 5 = 20Gb of sample data?

As for load speeds - I think the Series III is respectable for it's
age - sure a multi-sample is going to take a while - but waiting for
my MPC4000 to load a sample of CD the other day, I wondered if we've
really moved forward with sampler technology in the past 10 years!



> It's interesting that you would say that, I can definitely hear the 
> difference between an EIV compared to the Waveframe as well.  The 
> Waveframe is the quietest piece of gear that I have but colors the 
> sound in a good way and sounds amazingly better than the cheaper 
> stuff.  

I have two Synclavier poly-sampling machines - one is reputedly the
last machine to come into the UK and has the absolute latest revision
of voice cards (prior to Demas' own versions) and it sounds precise -
completely flat and crystal clear (not sure if these analogies mean
anything to anyone else!) - my other polysampling machine is a
relatively early machine and has the most stunning colouration - don't
ask me why but I can take any sound, bang it into the PSMT and it will
sound better on playback and when recorded - technical people tell me
it's to do with dynamic compression, saturation and expansion based on
the analogue output stage - but whatever - it just sounds wonderful :-0



> Seems like once you've heard he higher end samplers (Synclavier, 
> Fairlight, Waveframe and even the orginal EIII) it changes your 
> whole perspective on the cheaper samplers (I used to have ayamaha
> a4000 and an E64) I think it is the quality of the components used
> in their construction the makes the difference.

Funny you should mention that - I bought an EIII keyboard for a play
and fell in love with the sound - so I've bought two EIII racks - NOT
EIIIXP but EIII with the analogue filters.



> I'm most interested in sampling and processing my own sounds so the 
> library doesn't really mean that much to me.  User interface and 
> sound mean everything to me which brings us to:

I know I'm running the risk of going off topic here but - have you
looked at Symbolic Sound's Kyma on the Capybara?  Immensely powerful
and a great tool for real time sound / sample processing. have a look
at www.symbolicsound.com


> 9600 is out of the question at this point. I'm looking to add 
> another high quality sampler to my existing setup that has a 
> different sound than the Waveframe.  A 9600 is major overkill for 
> this task.  A Series III seems to fit well as I don't need the disk 
> recorder on the Synclavier. Is the 9600 available as a sampling 
> system only?

Not as far as I'm aware - the only options are whether FM voices and
how many poly sampling voices are installed - otherwise all the good
stuff comes with the OS.

Given what you're looking for - i.e.: a high end sampler - the Series
III is an outstanding machine - it's very stable (well, mine are), the
UI is a little odd but I've got used to it (almost!) and it's a really
practical machine - a friend of mine was over at the weekend and
wanted to upload some CD's I'd made onto his E6400 Ultra the UI is
*so* bad he ended up effectively 'restoring' from these CD's
obliterating his entire year's work - Fairlights / Synclaviers /
Waveframe's UI is just soooo much more advanced than the 3 x 40 LCD of
an EMU / Akai / other sampler - and the difference is in the sound
quality.

FWIW - I'd find a Series III and enjoy it - it's a musical instrument
and not many samplers are 'musical' - then save for a Synclavier. PS:
Did I mention I was selling one of my Series III's?  ;-)

Just my thoughts.....

Philip

Re: OT - Waveframe, Synclavier

2004-03-25 by David J. Wilson

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "pmjtaysom" <philip@t...> wrote:

> I understand the MaxOptics Tahiti drives work - I've got a T6 I was
> going to try it out though I suspect it may not work and I'll have 
to
> try and find a T5 somewhere.  T5 in native mode would give you 
around
> 2.5Gb of backup storage per cartridge (unformatted).
> Philip

Philip,  
thanks, I just picked up a mint Maxoptics Tahiti T4-1300 MO
external SCSI drive for only $20 on E-Bay.
This will store 1.3GB on an MO disc.  I also got a pack of new
5 SONY 1.3GB MO discs for $15.  E-Bay has a boatload of MO/WORM
stuff for pretty cheap.  I like cheap :-)

Andrew Brent said T3, T4, T5 Maxoptics MO drives work on Series III's
and they are backwards compatible with all original WORM discs
& media.  I have the original Maxoptics RXT-800S WORM drive
from Fairlight for my Series III, but I wanted a faster spare and
also to back up more than 900MB per disc.

the recent MFX2 on Ebay had an external Maxoptics T5-2600 MO drive
which does (ideally) 2.6GB

I'm curious if the rev 9.34 WORM commands (fromworm, toworm, wdir)
will work with the T4 or T5, or do we need to get the 11.39
versions of WORM commands to copy onto our 9.4 systems.
I'll let you know what I find out on mine.


David

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.