Homebrew PCBs

I'm still having trouble getting really nice transfers, I've seen some
of the pics here so I know that it is possible to get very clean,
solid traces.   My minimum trace width is 10 thou and my maximum is 50
thou, with most traces being 25 thou.   Strangely, the breaks are
almost all on the 25 thou traces with a few on the 50 thou traces.  
The 10 thou traces usually come out very nicely.   When I'm prepping
the board:   

I'm scrubbing with a green scrub pad in 4 directions (width, length
and both diagonals), around 5 - 10 times over the entire board in each
direction (basically until it really shines and I see no spots at
all).   Then I scrub more lightly in a circular motion.

I'm washing with acetone on a paper towel and my last wipe with
acetone generally has virtually no color to it.  

During all of this I am wearing latex gloves.

I use canned air to lightly blow off the dust and I then cover the
board with a clean paper towel.

I then put on new latex gloves and cut my paper to size, affix it to a
piece of regular paper with Avery label and print my image, lay it on
the board and iron it for around 3 minutes (moving the iron a lot
because the image is bigger than the iron).

I wait until the board has cooled and then place it in water (a little
warmer than room temp).

When the paper mostly slides off I take out the board.

Any ideas why I am still getting broken traces?   Anyone near the Ann
Arbor, MI area willing to let me watch them do a transfer so I can see
if theres something I'm forgetting?   I've tried various photo paper,
magazine paper, Reynolds parchment paper (seperated from the toner
nicely but lots of broken traces), and the backing for Avery labels.

I'm thinking maybe because the iron is so much smaller than the PCB
I'm making that I am not getting a continuous enough heat transfer.  
Anyone tried modifying a waffle iron to do the transfer with?

Thanks.

I would get a laminator or modify a fuser from a printer/copier to make  
one.
For me the inconsistency went away after using that instead of the iron.

ST


On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:00:47 +0200, sethkoster <sethkoster@yahoo.com>  
wrote:

> I'm still having trouble getting really nice transfers, I've seen some
> of the pics here so I know that it is possible to get very clean,
> solid traces.   My minimum trace width is 10 thou and my maximum is 50
> thou, with most traces being 25 thou.   Strangely, the breaks are
> almost all on the 25 thou traces with a few on the 50 thou traces.
> The 10 thou traces usually come out very nicely.   When I'm prepping
> the board:
> I'm scrubbing with a green scrub pad in 4 directions (width, length
> and both diagonals), around 5 - 10 times over the entire board in each
> direction (basically until it really shines and I see no spots at
> all).   Then I scrub more lightly in a circular motion.
> I'm washing with acetone on a paper towel and my last wipe with
> acetone generally has virtually no color to it.
> During all of this I am wearing latex gloves.
> I use canned air to lightly blow off the dust and I then cover the
> board with a clean paper towel.
> I then put on new latex gloves and cut my paper to size, affix it to a
> piece of regular paper with Avery label and print my image, lay it on
> the board and iron it for around 3 minutes (moving the iron a lot
> because the image is bigger than the iron).
> I wait until the board has cooled and then place it in water (a little
> warmer than room temp).
> When the paper mostly slides off I take out the board.
> Any ideas why I am still getting broken traces?   Anyone near the Ann
> Arbor, MI area willing to let me watch them do a transfer so I can see
> if theres something I'm forgetting?   I've tried various photo paper,
> magazine paper, Reynolds parchment paper (seperated from the toner
> nicely but lots of broken traces), and the backing for Avery labels.
> I'm thinking maybe because the iron is so much smaller than the PCB
> I'm making that I am not getting a continuous enough heat transfer.
> Anyone tried modifying a waffle iron to do the transfer with?
> Thanks.

At 12:44 AM 7/23/2006, you wrote:

>I would get a laminator or modify a fuser from a printer/copier to make
>one.
>For me the inconsistency went away after using that instead of the iron.
>
>ST


I'll also jump on the laminator bandwagon. Just don't think you can get any 
consistent temp/pressure with manual method.

I just did this board about 15 minutes ago (it's etching now), (Epson paper 
/ HP LJ-III / refilled toner cartridge / flea market badge laminator)
<http://users.rcn.com/carlott/pcb_samp.jpg>

The ONLY board prep I did was to clean the copper clad with a handfull of 
corse steel wool (I was out of the fine steel wool I usually use), you can 
see the scratches.

  But the toner traces stick like barnacles.



carl

--------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/
--------------------------------------------------------

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Carl Ott <carlott@...> wrote:
>
> At 12:44 AM 7/23/2006, you wrote:
> 
> >I would get a laminator or modify a fuser from a printer/copier to make
> >one.
> >For me the inconsistency went away after using that instead of the
iron.
> >
> >ST
> 
> 
> I'll also jump on the laminator bandwagon. Just don't think you can
get any 
> consistent temp/pressure with manual method.
>

 <SNIP>

I picked up a GBC Creative today and when I measured the temp using my
DMM I got a max reading of 280F (138 celsius while rollers are just
starting to pull on the probe tip), whereas my iron's hottest part
gave me 348F (176 celsius).   Is this ok?

At my local Harbour Freight they have a sale going on where I can get
a laminator (Gordon 9") for 21.95 but when I pulled the manual out of
the box at the store it gave a max depth of .024".   It did give a max
heat of 300F, though.   I couldn't find specs for the GBC to see if
the max depth was around the same as the Gordon, but if they have the
same max depth then maybe that extra heat would be better.   What do
you think?

--- Henry Carl Ott <carlott@...> wrote:

> I'll also jump on the laminator bandwagon. Just
> don't think you can get any 
> consistent temp/pressure with manual method.
> 
> I just did this board about 15 minutes ago (it's
> etching now), (Epson paper 
> / HP LJ-III / refilled toner cartridge / flea market
> badge laminator)
> <http://users.rcn.com/carlott/pcb_samp.jpg>

Henry,

what's the trace widths of the PCB ?

Nice transfer !


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--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:

> 
> I'm still having trouble getting really nice transfers, I've seen some
> of the pics here so I know that it is possible to get very clean,
> solid traces.   My minimum trace width is 10 thou and my maximum is 50
> thou, with most traces being 25 thou.   Strangely, the breaks are
> almost all on the 25 thou traces with a few on the 50 thou traces.  
> The 10 thou traces usually come out very nicely.   When I'm prepping
> the board:   
>... 
> When the paper mostly slides off I take out the board.
> 
> Any ideas why I am still getting broken traces?

hard to tell as you don't mention when you notice the gaps.
at first I would suspect too low temperature of transfer.
1) have you checked on the quality of the print. is it good. does it rub off.
any gaps?
2) when the paper slides off the board, is it nicely clean? no black spots
left?
3) have you tried re-fusing the board after paper removal?


  


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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> 
...
> > Any ideas why I am still getting broken traces?
> 
> hard to tell as you don't mention when you notice the gaps.
> at first I would suspect too low temperature of transfer.
> 1) have you checked on the quality of the print. is it good. does it
rub off.
> any gaps?

The print to paper seems good.   It looks solid and dense.

> 2) when the paper slides off the board, is it nicely clean? no black
spots
> left?

Nope.   This is when the gaps happen, the paper lifts away while still
holding tiny bits of traces.   I used to get traces that didn't fuse
to either the board or paper after transfer and would float in the
water, but I don't see that much anymore.

> 3) have you tried re-fusing the board after paper removal?
> 

I have no idea what you mean by that.

I was looking at Pulsar's webpage and I noticed that in their tips and
tricks page they list my printer as one of about 5 which they have had
reports of not working.   I'm using a Brother HL-2040.

Hi Seth,

One question, are the breaks always in one direction? In other words, are
they always in the traces that run in same direction, parallel to the way
the paper is printed?

The broken traces sound like the paper is changing dimensions under heat and
the toner is not "stretching" along with it. I suggest you first run the
paper through the laser printer without printing anything to give it a "heat
treatment" then reprint with the pcb pattern.

I'm using athe Samsung ML-2010,  an earlier relabeld version, with great
success,. The toner needs higher temerprature to fuse. A few extra passes
through the laminator works for me. Or else, after running it through the
laminator giving it a few touch up strokes with a hot iron.

Also. after removing the paper, flash fuse the toner using a a hair dryer
very close (1/8") to the pcb.


Myc

On 7/24/06, sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
>
>   --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Herbert E. Plett"
> <cachureos@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> >
> ...
> > > Any ideas why I am still getting broken traces?
> >
> > hard to tell as you don't mention when you notice the gaps.
> > at first I would suspect too low temperature of transfer.
> > 1) have you checked on the quality of the print. is it good. does it
> rub off.
> > any gaps?
>
> The print to paper seems good. It looks solid and dense.
>
> > 2) when the paper slides off the board, is it nicely clean? no black
> spots
> > left?
>
> Nope. This is when the gaps happen, the paper lifts away while still
> holding tiny bits of traces. I used to get traces that didn't fuse
> to either the board or paper after transfer and would float in the
> water, but I don't see that much anymore.
>
> > 3) have you tried re-fusing the board after paper removal?
> >
>
> I have no idea what you mean by that.
>
> I was looking at Pulsar's webpage and I noticed that in their tips and
> tricks page they list my printer as one of about 5 which they have had
> reports of not working. I'm using a Brother HL-2040.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:46 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote:
>--- Henry Carl Ott <carlott@...> wrote:
>
> > I just did this board about 15 minutes ago (it's
> > etching now), (Epson paper
> > / HP LJ-III / refilled toner cartridge / flea market
> > badge laminator)
> > <http://users.rcn.com/carlott/pcb_samp.jpg>
>
>Henry,
>
>what's the trace widths of the PCB ?
>
>Nice transfer !

I should have put that into the original post, Traces are 15 mils.

Gotta love mixing smd packages & vacuum tubes on the same board.

btw, after etching
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/samp_pcb_etched.jpg


The thing is, toner transfer is so easy once you get the right paper and a 
laminator.

And just because I've not posted it in a while. My TT tutorial.
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/toner_transfer_exp.pdf



carl
--------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ    carlott@...
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/
--------------------------------------------------------

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Myc Holmes" <mycroft2152y@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Seth,
> 
> One question, are the breaks always in one direction? In other
words, are
> they always in the traces that run in same direction, parallel to
the way
> the paper is printed?

Hey Myc, thats a good question and I'm not sure of the answer.   I am
planning on waiting until the .032" boards I ordered from abcfab on
ebay show up and then retrying everything using the laminator.

> 
> The broken traces sound like the paper is changing dimensions under
heat and
> the toner is not "stretching" along with it. I suggest you first run the
> paper through the laser printer without printing anything to give it
a "heat
> treatment" then reprint with the pcb pattern.
> 

Hmm...   It occurs to me that since I was moving the iron the very
same problem could have happened during the re-fusing phase.   Perhaps
because the PCB is heating up and cooling down in areas as I move the
iron around it is exacerbating this problem.

> I'm using athe Samsung ML-2010,  an earlier relabeld version, with great
> success,. The toner needs higher temerprature to fuse. A few extra
passes
> through the laminator works for me. Or else, after running it
through the
> laminator giving it a few touch up strokes with a hot iron.
> 

I went to the University of Michigan Property Disposition (I love that
place, if I ever need a cheap used DNA sequencer or Gieger counter I
know where to go) today and picked up a used HP LaserJet 5 in pretty
good condition for $50, though its low on toner (yet it printed pretty
nicely when I used the test menu).   Luckily I was able to return the
Brother HL-2040 and hopefully now that I have proven equipment I can
focus on my technique problems.

> Also. after removing the paper, flash fuse the toner using a a hair
dryer
> very close (1/8") to the pcb.
>

I'll give that a shot.

Thanks.

I've found that feeding my thicker pcbs into the laminator at a slight angle
usually works.

Of course , the thinner pcbs are best.

There has been some discussion about paper shrinkage during  laser printing
and laminating. The dimensional change is very apparent on large boards and
when they are drilled using a CNC machine.

Keep us posted.

Myc





On 7/24/06, sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
>
>   --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Myc Holmes" <mycroft2152y@...>
>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Seth,
> >
> > One question, are the breaks always in one direction? In other
> words, are
> > they always in the traces that run in same direction, parallel to
> the way
> > the paper is printed?
>
> Hey Myc, thats a good question and I'm not sure of the answer. I am
> planning on waiting until the .032" boards I ordered from abcfab on
> ebay show up and then retrying everything using the laminator.
>
>
> >
> > The broken traces sound like the paper is changing dimensions under
> heat and
> > the toner is not "stretching" along with it. I suggest you first run the
> > paper through the laser printer without printing anything to give it
> a "heat
> > treatment" then reprint with the pcb pattern.
> >
>
> Hmm... It occurs to me that since I was moving the iron the very
> same problem could have happened during the re-fusing phase. Perhaps
> because the PCB is heating up and cooling down in areas as I move the
> iron around it is exacerbating this problem.
>
>
> > I'm using athe Samsung ML-2010, an earlier relabeld version, with great
> > success,. The toner needs higher temerprature to fuse. A few extra
> passes
> > through the laminator works for me. Or else, after running it
> through the
> > laminator giving it a few touch up strokes with a hot iron.
> >
>
> I went to the University of Michigan Property Disposition (I love that
> place, if I ever need a cheap used DNA sequencer or Gieger counter I
> know where to go) today and picked up a used HP LaserJet 5 in pretty
> good condition for $50, though its low on toner (yet it printed pretty
> nicely when I used the test menu). Luckily I was able to return the
> Brother HL-2040 and hopefully now that I have proven equipment I can
> focus on my technique problems.
>
>
> > Also. after removing the paper, flash fuse the toner using a a hair
> dryer
> > very close (1/8") to the pcb.
> >
>
> I'll give that a shot.
>
> Thanks.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Myc Holmes" <mycroft2152y@...>
wrote:
>
> I've found that feeding my thicker pcbs into the laminator at a
slight angle
> usually works.
> 
> Of course , the thinner pcbs are best.
> 
> There has been some discussion about paper shrinkage during  laser
printing
> and laminating. The dimensional change is very apparent on large
boards and
> when they are drilled using a CNC machine.
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> Myc


What size would be considered large in this instance?   

The PCB I'm trying to make is 4.7" X 5.4" between the widest
pins/traces (5.1" X 5.65" board outline), with about 90 components
(about 250 pins) all through hole.   I'm putting it on a 6" X 9"
board, single sided except some stitching.

Do you think I would be running into shrinkage issues with these
dimensions?

Seth

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> Hmm...   It occurs to me that since I was moving the iron the very
> same problem could have happened during the re-fusing phase.   Perhaps
> because the PCB is heating up and cooling down in areas as I move the
> iron around it is exacerbating this problem.
> 

don't think so. copper will not heat up and cool down, less stretch while
ironing.
I am nearer to believe it's a too low temperature or board prep problem.
use the iron very hot (over 200C, 400F) and use a paper towel buffer. should
yellow slightly...



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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> > Hmm...   It occurs to me that since I was moving the iron the very
> > same problem could have happened during the re-fusing phase.   Perhaps
> > because the PCB is heating up and cooling down in areas as I move the
> > iron around it is exacerbating this problem.
> > 
> 
> don't think so. copper will not heat up and cool down, less stretch
while
> ironing.
> I am nearer to believe it's a too low temperature or board prep problem.
> use the iron very hot (over 200C, 400F) and use a paper towel
buffer. should
> yellow slightly...
> 
> 

I think it was a pressure problem.   I tested my iron before and the
hottest it gets is just under 350F, but the other day when I got my
.032" boards and laminator I was able to do a better transfer.

The laminator itself does not get hot enough, if I run the board
through it the toner doesn't even adhere slightly to the board, but if
I iron it to heat it then run it through the laminator and repeat the
process a few times I can get a solid looking transfer.

But after etching I still find areas where the porosity of the toner
creates opens in traces.

I think I need some sort of sealant for the toner.

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de sethkoster
> Envoyé : juillet 28 2006 08:57
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Still getting broken traces.
> 
> 
> I think it was a pressure problem.   I tested my iron before and the
> hottest it gets is just under 350F, but the other day when I 
> got my .032" boards and laminator I was able to do a better transfer.
> 
> The laminator itself does not get hot enough, if I run the 
> board through it the toner doesn't even adhere slightly to 
> the board, but if I iron it to heat it then run it through 
> the laminator and repeat the process a few times I can get a 
> solid looking transfer.
> 
> But after etching I still find areas where the porosity of 
> the toner creates opens in traces.
> 
> I think I need some sort of sealant for the toner.


I use a GBC H300 laminator and I pass the PCB about 15 times, flipping the
PCB over each time.

Robert
:)

I agree, multiple passes are needed.

I run the pcb through the Xerox laminator about 10 times, flipping it each
time. When t is too hot to handle, then I know ti is ready. It is a lot
easer to run it a few extra times to be sure.

Afterwards, I "flash fuse" the toner with a hair dryer to reduce the
granularity and seal the toner better.

The laminators are designed to heat paper, with a very low mass. It takes a
lot more energy to raise to temp of a pcb to the critical point.

Myc

On 7/28/06, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> wrote:
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de sethkoster
> > Envoyé : juillet 28 2006 08:57
> > À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Still getting broken traces.
> >
> >
> > I think it was a pressure problem.   I tested my iron before and the
> > hottest it gets is just under 350F, but the other day when I
> > got my .032" boards and laminator I was able to do a better transfer.
> >
> > The laminator itself does not get hot enough, if I run the
> > board through it the toner doesn't even adhere slightly to
> > the board, but if I iron it to heat it then run it through
> > the laminator and repeat the process a few times I can get a
> > solid looking transfer.
> >
> > But after etching I still find areas where the porosity of
> > the toner creates opens in traces.
> >
> > I think I need some sort of sealant for the toner.
>
>
> I use a GBC H300 laminator and I pass the PCB about 15 times, flipping the
> PCB over each time.
>
> Robert
> :)
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can slow down the transport if you want, i need only 1 pass with my  
modified fuser unit (chicken grill motor drive).

ST


On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:46:56 +0200, Myc Holmes <mycroft2152y@...>  
wrote:

> I agree, multiple passes are needed.
> I run the pcb through the Xerox laminator about 10 times, flipping it  
> each
> time. When t is too hot to handle, then I know ti is ready. It is a lot
> easer to run it a few extra times to be sure.
> Afterwards, I "flash fuse" the toner with a hair dryer to reduce the
> granularity and seal the toner better.
> The laminators are designed to heat paper, with a very low mass. It  
> takes a
> lot more energy to raise to temp of a pcb to the critical point.
> Myc

Some how I knew that was coming, Stefan!

:)

and for those of us poor people whose lives are not enlightened by a chicken
grill motor, multiple passes are nneded.
Myc

On 7/28/06, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> You can slow down the transport if you want, i need only 1 pass with my
> modified fuser unit (chicken grill motor drive).
>
> ST
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:46:56 +0200, Myc Holmes <mycroft2152y@...>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree, multiple passes are needed.
> > I run the pcb through the Xerox laminator about 10 times, flipping it
> > each
> > time. When t is too hot to handle, then I know ti is ready. It is a lot
> > easer to run it a few extra times to be sure.
> > Afterwards, I "flash fuse" the toner with a hair dryer to reduce the
> > granularity and seal the toner better.
> > The laminators are designed to heat paper, with a very low mass. It
> > takes a
> > lot more energy to raise to temp of a pcb to the critical point.
> > Myc
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:42:02 +0200, Myc Holmes <mycroft2152y@...>  
wrote:

> Some how I knew that was coming, Stefan!
> :)
> and for those of us poor people whose lives are not enlightened by a  
> chicken
> grill motor, multiple passes are nneded.
> Myc


Indeed, and a chicken grill motor is only about 6eur, brand new!
Hard to beat really....

ST

Another approach I've successfully used for TT is 
to heat the PCB in an oven to ~300 F and then 
apply the TT material.  Use an iron to further 
raise the temp of the board to get full 
transfer.  The idea is to get the board almost to 
the proper temp,, apply the TT material and then 
finish raising the PCB to the proper temp. with the iron for a good transfer.

Not cleaning the board has been my biggest 
problem.  A lesser problem has been getting the 
board too hot in the oven and the TT medium 
shrinks causing a mess on the board.

At 09:46 AM 7/28/2006, Myc Holmes wrote:
>I agree, multiple passes are needed.
>
>I run the pcb through the Xerox laminator about 10 times, flipping it each
>time. When t is too hot to handle, then I know ti is ready. It is a lot
>easer to run it a few extra times to be sure.
>
>Afterwards, I "flash fuse" the toner with a hair dryer to reduce the
>granularity and seal the toner better.
>
>The laminators are designed to heat paper, with a very low mass. It takes a
>lot more energy to raise to temp of a pcb to the critical point.
>
>Myc
>
>On 7/28/06, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> wrote:
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de sethkoster
> > > Envoyé : juillet 28 2006 08:57
> > > À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Still getting broken traces.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think it was a pressure problem.   I tested my iron before and the
> > > hottest it gets is just under 350F, but the other day when I
> > > got my .032" boards and laminator I was able to do a better transfer.
> > >
> > > The laminator itself does not get hot enough, if I run the
> > > board through it the toner doesn't even adhere slightly to
> > > the board, but if I iron it to heat it then run it through
> > > the laminator and repeat the process a few times I can get a
> > > solid looking transfer.
> > >
> > > But after etching I still find areas where the porosity of
> > > the toner creates opens in traces.
> > >
> > > I think I need some sort of sealant for the toner.
> >
> >
> > I use a GBC H300 laminator and I pass the PCB about 15 times, flipping the
> > PCB over each time.
> >
> > Robert
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sethkoster" <sethkoster@...> wrote:

> I think it was a pressure problem.   I tested my iron before and the
> hottest it gets is just under 350F, but the other day when I got my
> .032" boards and laminator I was able to do a better transfer.
> 
> The laminator itself does not get hot enough, if I run the board
> through it the toner doesn't even adhere slightly to the board, but if
> I iron it to heat it then run it through the laminator and repeat the
> process a few times I can get a solid looking transfer.

Which laminator? Does it have a temp control? If so, it should be set
on Foil or whatever is the hottest setting. If it does not have a temp
control, then I can almost guarantee it will never get hot enough.

"Foil" is specifically supposed to be hot enough to melt toner for
those laser foil transfers.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike <k4gmh@...> wrote:
>
> Another approach I've successfully used for TT is 
> to heat the PCB in an oven to ~300 F and then 
> apply the TT material.  Use an iron to further 
> raise the temp of the board to get full 
> transfer.  The idea is to get the board almost to 
> the proper temp,, apply the TT material and then 
> finish raising the PCB to the proper temp. with the iron for a good
transfer.

That sounds easy.   Except for one thing.   How
do you align the TT material on the 300 degF PCB?

I just do single sided boards.  Good point regarding double sided 
boards and pre-heating.

At 10:19 PM 7/29/2006, alan00463 wrote:
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike <k4gmh@...> wrote:
> >
> > Another approach I've successfully used for TT is
> > to heat the PCB in an oven to ~300 F and then
> > apply the TT material.  Use an iron to further
> > raise the temp of the board to get full
> > transfer.  The idea is to get the board almost to
> > the proper temp,, apply the TT material and then
> > finish raising the PCB to the proper temp. with the iron for a good
>transfer.
>
>That sounds easy.   Except for one thing.   How
>do you align the TT material on the 300 degF PCB?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
...
> Which laminator? Does it have a temp control? If so, it should be set
> on Foil or whatever is the hottest setting. If it does not have a temp
> control, then I can almost guarantee it will never get hot enough.
> 
> "Foil" is specifically supposed to be hot enough to melt toner for
> those laser foil transfers.
> 
> Steve Greenfield
>


I got the GBC Creative which was recommended on the pulsar.gs website.
  It does not appear to have a temp control and when I measured it's
temp I found it to reach about 280F (using temp probe on my multimeter).

Seth Koster

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike <k4gmh@...> wrote:
>
> I just do single sided boards.  Good point regarding double sided 
> boards and pre-heating.

I wasn't even thinking about double-sided boards, Mike.
Applying a TT to a single sided board at ~300F would be hard
enough, I would think.   I was wondering what technique you used with
success.  I guess I'll have to try it.    Thanks for the great idea.

Alan