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Thoughts on tt etching and soldering

Thoughts on tt etching and soldering

2007-09-03 by Dennis Waggoner

New to the group first I want to thank all of you for your help. The
techniques described here have helped me very much. Second I would
like to share my best techniques on making my own pcbs. Many if not
all I discovered from this group collective thoughts. So this is
probably more of an affirmation than a discovery.

I've found that the printer makes all of the difference from success
to failure. I had an old Epson Laser 1000 that I was using and as the
toner got lower and lower I found that it became impossible to make
any toner transfers that I could even use. I purchased a new Dell 1720
and now it's difficult to even make a tt with imperfect results. I'm
currently down to 12 mill traces with no problems and with probably
try 10mils but I believe that is going to be the limit for me. (See my
photos called dwags projects). I use an old iron and PressNPeel.
PressNPeel is a lot cheaper if you order from their website 20 sheets
for 33 dollars. And for my low volume this is great.

As for iron on techniques it is a learned exercise but I have found
that the color of the traces through the blue transparency of
PressNPeel gets darker and less fuzzy. That change in appearance
corresponds with a correct transfer of the toner and signals an end to
the iron heat and pressure. Heat can be checked with thermometer if
you have one find the heat setting that corresponds with about 300 deg F.

For etching I use Hydrogen Peroxide (Wal-Mart 1qt for 99 cents) and
Muratic Acid 4.99 a gallon. In the summer I mix three parts H202 to
one part HCL and in the winter I usually mix two to one. The removal
of copper works quicker if you can expose the copper to air and let
the etching completely drain off then submerge and do again. Takes
about 10 minutes to etch a 4x6 1oz copper pcb. Muratic acid is very
strong and I urge you unless you are familiar with strong reagents
please study safety and storage and waste removal of the etching
before you use this technique. I always have a five gallon bucket full
of water nearby incase of any accidents or spills when I am etching.

After etching I remove the toner with acetone wash in a cold solution
of soapy water to remove any traces of acidity dry and then coat with
a light coat of Shellac. This prevents the copper from oxidizing and
makes soldering a dream. Make sure you use shellac and not a lacquer
or varnish. Shellac has a low melting point 180 deg F and makes an
excellent protective insulating coat for the bottom of the pcb. I
only know of one manufacturer of Spray shellac Zinsser and sometime
you can find it at Lowes. Or you can order it online

After the shellac has dried drill out the holes. I found a great
source of drills on ebay you get 50 carbide ring drills for 32.00
shipping included. They come in 10s of .024, .029, .033, .035, and
.045 diameter onpasinc.com out of Ohio. If you make your entire pad
holes diameter less than the diameter of the drill you intend to use
the etched hole in the center of the pad with act as a center punch
and the drill with find the exact center. Start it slowly and let the
pcb move slightly to accommodate the centering process.

Soldering is straight forward. As you apply heat to the pad you will
see the shellac boiling away this gives you an indication of where and
how much heat is being applied. When it boils away you have perfect
unoxidized copper exposed that can be soldered without any additional
flux.

After the board is assembled I usually brush vigorously with a small
bronze brush. This dulls the solder to a mate finish and makes any
imperfections or bad weld very easy to spot with a magnifying glass
and removes all flux spatters.

Finally after the board is tested and everything works correctly I
give it a final heavy coat of shellac.

Again Thanks for all of your help and I hope these comments help
someone new to this group

Dennis

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Thoughts on tt etching and soldering

2007-09-03 by chuck richards

Dennis,

Thanks much for posting that.  It's the whole works on
one page!   So far I have been jurking here for a few years
just reading stuff.  I have never made any pc boards.  All
of my work is either wire-wrapped or soldered on those
generic "junk" boards.   I have had excellent results using
Vector #3677 prototyping boards, and they fit right into
a card cage.   However, reading your instrcutions gets me
curious about at least trying a pc board sometime just to
see what it's all about.

Chuck Richards
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: wagelec@...
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Thoughts on tt  etching and soldering
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:56:55 -0000
>
>>New to the group first I want to thank all of you for your help. The
>>techniques described here have helped me very much. Second I would
>>like to share my best techniques on making my own pcbs. Many if not
>>all I discovered from this group collective thoughts. So this is
>>probably more of an affirmation than a discovery.
>>
>>I've found that the printer makes all of the difference from success
>>to failure. I had an old Epson Laser 1000 that I was using and as
>the
>>toner got lower and lower I found that it became impossible to make
>>any toner transfers that I could even use. I purchased a new Dell
>1720
>>and now it's difficult to even make a tt with imperfect results. I'm
>>currently down to 12 mill traces with no problems and with probably
>>try 10mils but I believe that is going to be the limit for me. (See
>my
>>photos called dwags projects). I use an old iron and PressNPeel.
>>PressNPeel is a lot cheaper if you order from their website 20
>sheets
>>for 33 dollars. And for my low volume this is great.
>>
>>As for iron on techniques it is a learned exercise but I have found
>>that the color of the traces through the blue transparency of
>>PressNPeel gets darker and less fuzzy. That change in appearance
>>corresponds with a correct transfer of the toner and signals an end
>to
>>the iron heat and pressure. Heat can be checked with thermometer if
>>you have one find the heat setting that corresponds with about 300
>deg F.
>>
>>For etching I use Hydrogen Peroxide (Wal-Mart 1qt for 99 cents) and
>>Muratic Acid 4.99 a gallon. In the summer I mix three parts H202 to
>>one part HCL and in the winter I usually mix two to one. The removal
>>of copper works quicker if you can expose the copper to air and let
>>the etching completely drain off then submerge and do again. Takes
>>about 10 minutes to etch a 4x6 1oz copper pcb. Muratic acid is very
>>strong and I urge you unless you are familiar with strong reagents
>>please study safety and storage and waste removal of the etching
>>before you use this technique. I always have a five gallon bucket
>full
>>of water nearby incase of any accidents or spills when I am etching.
>>
>>After etching I remove the toner with acetone wash in a cold
>solution
>>of soapy water to remove any traces of acidity dry and then coat
>with
>>a light coat of Shellac. This prevents the copper from oxidizing and
>>makes soldering a dream. Make sure you use shellac and not a lacquer
>>or varnish. Shellac has a low melting point 180 deg F and makes an
>>excellent protective insulating coat for the bottom of the pcb. I
>>only know of one manufacturer of Spray shellac Zinsser and sometime
>>you can find it at Lowes. Or you can order it online
>>
>>After the shellac has dried drill out the holes. I found a great
>>source of drills on ebay you get 50 carbide ring drills for 32.00
>>shipping included. They come in 10s of .024, .029, .033, .035, and
>>.045 diameter onpasinc.com out of Ohio. If you make your entire pad
>>holes diameter less than the diameter of the drill you intend to use
>>the etched hole in the center of the pad with act as a center punch
>>and the drill with find the exact center. Start it slowly and let
>the
>>pcb move slightly to accommodate the centering process.
>>
>>Soldering is straight forward. As you apply heat to the pad you will
>>see the shellac boiling away this gives you an indication of where
>and
>>how much heat is being applied. When it boils away you have perfect
>>unoxidized copper exposed that can be soldered without any
>additional
>>flux.
>>
>>After the board is assembled I usually brush vigorously with a small
>>bronze brush. This dulls the solder to a mate finish and makes any
>>imperfections or bad weld very easy to spot with a magnifying glass
>>and removes all flux spatters.
>>
>>Finally after the board is tested and everything works correctly I
>>give it a final heavy coat of shellac.
>>
>>Again Thanks for all of your help and I hope these comments help
>>someone new to this group
>>
>>Dennis
>>
>>
>>



$4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

PCB software

2007-09-05 by Dennis Waggoner

Some one ask me what I use to route my pcbs. I use Eagle but I hand
route all of my traces.

Ive found that I can logically route my traces manually much better
than autorouting them. I takes a lot more time but there are much less
via's to contend with by placing manually.

   A few tips for using eagle. Place you components first and then
align them to a grid from their origins. Set you grid to .2 or .4 and
your alt to .001. Align your components symetricaly and opposite if
you can and try to keep the space between like components the same  
Place all of the origins on the coarse grid first and align them
exactly to the grid using the alternate settings within .001. Then set
you grid to .1 and alt .025 and move them where they need to be. This
will be you final location. Look at the unrouted lines and rotate
your components then use ratsnest to find the best orientation of the
component so that the ratsnets lines cross the least. This will also
show you alternative component locations that might offer less
ratsnest lines just remember to keep them on the .1 grid. After that
your on you own

 If it is simple you can try autorouting using the horizontal or
vertical default from the sample programs. I found that by varying the
routing grid by as little as .1 can change from 85 to 100 percent
autorouting. So don't be afraid to try several different grid sizes.

But for more complicated boards. Manual routing is the best! It takes
more time and trial and error but by first placing all of your
components on a .100 grid and them routing down to what ever pitch
you are comfortable with it is easy to use the route command to add
the traces. There will be some componants that will not align to the
grid but route will still connect the traces once you learn how to use it.

Regards
Dennis Waggoner

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB software

2007-09-05 by DJ Delorie

"Dennis Waggoner" <wagelec@...> writes:
> I use Eagle but I hand route all of my traces.

I don't hand route them *all* but what I do is run the autorouter once
in a while to see how "clean" my layout is, and if there are any key
traces that I should hand-route first because they'll otherwise go all
over the place.  Sometimes I can get close enough to let the
autorouter do the rest.

> I found that by varying the routing grid by as little as .1

Does eagle still use a gridded autorouter?  PCB switched to gridless a
while back, otherwise it's difficult to pick the right grid with a
mixture of metric and english pitch SMT parts.

Re: PCB software

2007-09-05 by Dennis Waggoner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "Dennis Waggoner" <wagelec@...> writes:
> > I use Eagle but I hand route all of my traces.
> 
> I don't hand route them *all* but what I do is run the autorouter once
> in a while to see how "clean" my layout is, and if there are any key
> traces that I should hand-route first because they'll otherwise go all
> over the place.  Sometimes I can get close enough to let the
> autorouter do the rest.
> 
> > I found that by varying the routing grid by as little as .1
> 
> Does eagle still use a gridded autorouter?  PCB switched to gridless a
> while back, otherwise it's difficult to pick the right grid with a
> mixture of metric and english pitch SMT parts.
>

See the new photo I just added in dwags projects. smt parts route
without a problem using the route command the soic part I am routing
here is aligned to a .025" grid with .012" traces

Dennis Waggoner

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB software

2007-09-05 by DJ Delorie

But if you *can* align a SOIC to a grid, that's different.  I'm
thinking of a mix of SOIC (25mil) and SSOP (0.65mm) parts, where you
can't come up with a grid that they can both be aligned to.

Very pretty curvy traces, though :-)

Re: PCB software

2007-09-05 by Dennis Waggoner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> But if you *can* align a SOIC to a grid, that's different.  I'm
> thinking of a mix of SOIC (25mil) and SSOP (0.65mm) parts, where you
> can't come up with a grid that they can both be aligned to.
> 
> Very pretty curvy traces, though :-)
>


Sorry soic is my limit on tt. I do know that route with align with any
location. for example the pinouts on a db9 pcb mount are not on a .025
based grid and I can route to them without andy problems.

Dennis

Re: PCB software

2007-09-27 by pgdion1

I use DipTrace. I really like it a lot for both schematic capture and
routing. A couple of things took a little getting used to or searching
to find but overall it's pretty straight forward and all of the
packages work very well. It's really an excellent product. I really
like hoe well the copper pours work.

I hand place the components and then run the Auto-Router. If I don't
like it, I rip it all up, change the settings, and run it again. When
I like what I see, I then rip up the few traces I don't like, hand
push the others, and then route by hand the few remaining traces.
There are usually just a few to deal with like this on each board.

- phil

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Waggoner" <wagelec@...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>    Some one ask me what I use to route my pcbs. I use Eagle but I hand
> route all of my traces.
> 
> Ive found that I can logically route my traces manually much better
> than autorouting them. I takes a lot more time but there are much less
> via's to contend with by placing manually.
>
> Dennis Waggoner
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB software

2007-09-27 by Lez

>  I hand place the components and then run the Auto-Router. If I don't
>  like it, I rip it all up, change the settings, and run it again. When
>  I like what I see, I then rip up the few traces I don't like, hand
>  push the others, and then route by hand the few remaining traces.
>  There are usually just a few to deal with like this on each board.
>
>  - phil


same here, best pcb package ever.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB software

2007-09-27 by Myc Holmes

"same here, best pcb package ever"

ditto!

Version1.40 is amazing

but I've been saying that for the last three years.

:)

Myc


On 9/27/07, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
>   > I hand place the components and then run the Auto-Router. If I don't
> > like it, I rip it all up, change the settings, and run it again. When
> > I like what I see, I then rip up the few traces I don't like, hand
> > push the others, and then route by hand the few remaining traces.
> > There are usually just a few to deal with like this on each board.
> >
> > - phil
>
> same here, best pcb package ever.
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DIPTrace (Was: PCB software)

2007-10-01 by phildimond

Phil (from Phil)..

I want to thank you for that note. I'd vaguely heard of DIPtrace, but
never hard anything about it. I've tried a bunch of PCB packages,
trying to find one that had as intuitive and simple a user interface
as the ancient Mentor system I used 20 years ago, in front of a
logically operating engine with a decent and solid built in auto-place
and auto-route.

I just gave DIPtrace a try and knocked out 2 boards in a couple of
hours. First rate! Thanks for that tip.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I use DipTrace. I really like it a lot for both schematic capture and
> routing. A couple of things took a little getting used to or searching
> to find but overall it's pretty straight forward and all of the
> packages work very well. It's really an excellent product. I really
> like hoe well the copper pours work.
> 
> I hand place the components and then run the Auto-Router. If I don't
> like it, I rip it all up, change the settings, and run it again. When
> I like what I see, I then rip up the few traces I don't like, hand
> push the others, and then route by hand the few remaining traces.
> There are usually just a few to deal with like this on each board.
> 
> - phil
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Waggoner" <wagelec@>
> wrote:
> >
> >    Some one ask me what I use to route my pcbs. I use Eagle but I hand
> > route all of my traces.
> > 
> > Ive found that I can logically route my traces manually much better
> > than autorouting them. I takes a lot more time but there are much less
> > via's to contend with by placing manually.
> >
> > Dennis Waggoner
> >
>

Re: DIPTrace (Was: PCB software)

2007-10-03 by Ted Bruce KX4OM

Dip Trace imports EAGLE libraries very well, too.

Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "phildimond"
<my-yahoo-groups@...> wrote:
>
> Phil (from Phil)..
> 
> I want to thank you for that note. I'd vaguely heard of DIPtrace, but
> never hard anything about it. I've tried a bunch of PCB packages,
> trying to find one that had as intuitive and simple a user interface
> as the ancient Mentor system I used 20 years ago, in front of a
> logically operating engine with a decent and solid built in auto-place
> and auto-route.
> 
> I just gave DIPtrace a try and knocked out 2 boards in a couple of
> hours. First rate! Thanks for that tip.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@> wrote:
> >
> > I use DipTrace. I really like it a lot for both schematic capture and
> > routing. A couple of things took a little getting used to or searching
> > to find but overall it's pretty straight forward and all of the
> > packages work very well. It's really an excellent product. I really
> > like hoe well the copper pours work.
> > 
> > I hand place the components and then run the Auto-Router. If I don't
> > like it, I rip it all up, change the settings, and run it again. When
> > I like what I see, I then rip up the few traces I don't like, hand
> > push the others, and then route by hand the few remaining traces.
> > There are usually just a few to deal with like this on each board.
> > 
> > - phil
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Waggoner" <wagelec@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >    Some one ask me what I use to route my pcbs. I use Eagle but
I hand
> > > route all of my traces.
> > > 
> > > Ive found that I can logically route my traces manually much better
> > > than autorouting them. I takes a lot more time but there are
much less
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > via's to contend with by placing manually.
> > >
> > > Dennis Waggoner
> > >
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIPTrace (Was: PCB software)

2007-10-03 by Ross McKenzie

Now, that I did NOT know! Maybe it is time to revisit DipTrace.

Thanks.

Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia

Ted Bruce KX4OM wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Dip Trace imports EAGLE libraries very well, too.
>
> Ted
>
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PCB software

2010-10-29 by First L

I have an annoying problem. I need to make a board using a MAX668eub chip or an LM5118. I have a slight preference for the max668. I cannot find a software package other than PCB 123 V4 that has that part. The problem is that it looks like I have to spend over $300 for boards from Sunstone. Is there a PCB program with a MAX 668 as a library part? I mean as a generic program not tied to a specific board house. I really do not feel that I am skilled enough to make my own library part with most of the programs I've seen. 
Thank You for any help.
If anyone knows a part in a "normal" package that will do the same as the above parts I'll do that too.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB software

2010-10-29 by Paul Mateer

Use ExpressPCB and lust make it. I thought most if not all pcb packages let
you build a part. I know old orcad does did

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 10:23 PM, First L <adastra_2001@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have an annoying problem. I need to make a board using a MAX668eub chip
> or an LM5118. I have a slight preference for the max668. I cannot find a
> software package other than PCB 123 V4 that has that part. The problem is
> that it looks like I have to spend over $300 for boards from Sunstone. Is
> there a PCB program with a MAX 668 as a library part? I mean as a generic
> program not tied to a specific board house. I really do not feel that I am
> skilled enough to make my own library part with most of the programs I've
> seen.
> Thank You for any help.
> If anyone knows a part in a "normal" package that will do the same as the
> above parts I'll do that too.
>
>  
>



-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PCB software

2010-10-29 by Howard Chester

Hello First L, Diptrace schm & PCB package has the MAX668 in all packages. The free version has a limit of 300 pins (no other limits such as time etc.), autoplace, autoroute, component editor (roll your own), pads editor, extensive libraries and it's own forum where we share our component/pad libraries. It's the easiest package to use that I have come across over the last few years.
Link:    http://www.diptrace.com

Kikad from sourceforge.net is also a good package (open source - no limits) but is a bit harder to use, and I'm not sure that the library contains the MAX668
Hope this is of some help...chester




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB software

2010-10-29 by DJ Delorie

On 10/29/2010 02:21 AM, Howard Chester wrote:
> Kikad from sourceforge.net is also a good package (open source
 > - no limits) but is a bit harder to use,
 > and I'm not sure that the library contains the MAX668

There are a couple of open source packages, I use (and develop) 
gEDA/PCB.  When people complain about the limited library, I point out 
that no matter how big the library, you're going to end up making your 
own symbols and footprints, because new parts come on the market.  So 
you should not just look at what's *in* the library, but how easy is it 
to add to it?

In PCB, for example, you can make new footprints right in pcb, even 
while laying out your board.  Symbol creation is done right in the 
schematic editor.  In both cases, the files are documented text files, 
you can create them with a text editor, and there are scripts available 
for automating it (I use djboxsym for 90% of my symbols).  Heck, one 
user created a programming language specifically designed to create 
footprints.

Some web-based symbol/footprint tools for gEDA/PCB:

http://vivara.net/cgi-bin/djboxsym.cgi - online box-symbol generator
http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/dilpad.html - online 
DIP footprint generator
http://www.gedasymbols.org/ - site for community-provided stuff

And a brief tutorial which includes making a footprint in PCB:

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/

On a side note, anyone using gEDA/PCB (or wanting to learn) is welcome 
to ask questions at #geda on OFTC.net, where I hang out most of the time.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB software

2010-10-30 by Howard Chester

--- On Fri, 29/10/10, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DJ Delorie <dj@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB software
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 29 October, 2010, 14:42







 



  


    
      
      
      On 10/29/2010 02:21 AM, Howard Chester wrote:

> Kikad from sourceforge.net is also a good package (open source

 > - no limits) but is a bit harder to use,

 > and I'm not sure that the library contains the MAX668



>There are a couple of open source packages, I use (and develop) 

>gEDA/PCB.  When people complain about the limited library, I point out 

>that no matter how big the library, you're going to end up making your 

>own symbols and footprints, because new parts come on the market.  So 

>you should not just look at what's *in* the library, but how easy is it 

>to add to it?
Thanks for the response DJ,I have used diprtace for years now,and I suppose that I,m set in my ways. As for creating new parts/pads, last year I completed about 2,500 C+K switches and about 200 Omron power/signal relay parts. These have been posted in the forum under shared libraries.This also applies to helping others with problems encountered and advice where I can. As stated, I'm set in my ways-but always ready to seek new avenues, as such I will check out the links provided...Once again, many thanks, chester



    
     

    
    


 



  






      

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Re: PCB software

2010-10-31 by First L

For some reason I was not getting my daily digest of messages. I am going to look at all the programs that have been mentioned. I really appreciate this help. 


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Howard Chester <howard.chester@...> wrote:
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>
> Hello First L, Diptrace schm & PCB package has the MAX668 in all packages. The free version has a limit of 300 pins (no other limits such as time etc.), autoplace, autoroute, component editor (roll your own), pads editor, extensive libraries and it's own forum where we share our component/pad libraries. It's the easiest package to use that I have come across over the last few years.
> Link:    http://www.diptrace.com
> 
> Kikad from sourceforge.net is also a good package (open source - no limits) but is a bit harder to use, and I'm not sure that the library contains the MAX668
> Hope this is of some help...chester
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Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.