Homebrew PCBs

I saw this mentioned recently and thought I'd give it a go. Here are some findings and some questions

I'm having no problems getting the paper thru the printer: I just cut a section the size of my board and tape it onto a printout of the board on full-size paper (so it's positioned right). I tape only the leading edge and so far it's been fine. (I should add that, in order to preserve my materials for as long as possible, I make all may boards as small as possible and the paper's never been bigger than about a credit card).

Removing the baking paper is a joy - just peel it away, but I am noticing that the edges are very rough, and if I hold the baking paper to the light, there are some very tiny traces of toner left behind on the edges. The complicating factor is that the very same time I started using baking paper, we went started a new generic toner cartridge, but I thought I'd see if anyone had any experiences.

* has anyone seen a particular toner produce rough edges? It does appear pretty good when still on the paper
* Would baking paper require a higher heat? I've been increasing heat and time but no change yet (as always, we're talking a fairly small sample here)

What does that brother toner look like when improperly stuck? This toner sticks to paper perfectly well, so I don't think it's radically different.

(printer's HP 5MP and I'm still using the iron)

PG

errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?

I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation). It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack.  By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.

Tell us more about this baking paper.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

>
> I saw this mentioned recently and thought I'd give it a go. Here are some findings and some questions
> 
> I'm having no problems getting the paper thru the printer: I just cut a section the size of my board and tape it onto a printout of the board on full-size paper (so it's positioned right). I tape only the leading edge and so far it's been fine. (I should add that, in order to preserve my materials for as long as possible, I make all may boards as small as possible and the paper's never been bigger than about a credit card).
> 
> Removing the baking paper is a joy - just peel it away, but I am noticing that the edges are very rough, and if I hold the baking paper to the light, there are some very tiny traces of toner left behind on the edges. The complicating factor is that the very same time I started using baking paper, we went started a new generic toner cartridge, but I thought I'd see if anyone had any experiences.
> 
> * has anyone seen a particular toner produce rough edges? It does appear pretty good when still on the paper
> * Would baking paper require a higher heat? I've been increasing heat and time but no change yet (as always, we're talking a fairly small sample here)
> 
> What does that brother toner look like when improperly stuck? This toner sticks to paper perfectly well, so I don't think it's radically different.
> 
> (printer's HP 5MP and I'm still using the iron)
> 
> PG
>

Hi, all!

If I may jump in here, I believe that Sailingtoo's refering to parchment paper, used in en croute (wrapped in paper) and many baking dishes.  It's a heavy paper that's coated with siilicone as a release agent, and will withstand high (as in oven) temperatures.

You'll find parchment paper in almost any grocery store, in the section with food wraps, food bags, aluminum - or aluminium - foil, etc.

HTH,
Dave - Lost in the "wilds" of Colorado...


________________________________

From: sailingto <sailingtoo@gmail.com>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 1:04:50 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: baking paper TT

errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?

I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation). It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack.  By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.

Tell us more about this baking paper.

Ken H>


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 23/02/2010 20:04, sailingto wrote:
> errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?
>
> I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation). It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack.  By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.
>
> Tell us more about this baking paper.

I think it's coated with Teflon.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Leon Heller wrote:
> On 23/02/2010 20:04, sailingto wrote:
>> errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?
>>
>> I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation). It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack.  By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.
>>
>> Tell us more about this baking paper.
> 
> I think it's coated with Teflon.
> 
> Leon

I just pulled a box of Reynolds Parchment Paper, baking paper out
of the wife's cupboard.

<--- Quote -->

Genuine Parchment paper
Enhanced non-stick properties allow foods to release better
Oven safe to 420 deg F
Paper made in France

<-- end Quote -->

30 Sq FT 24ft x 15 inches
Cost $3.00 US.

I'll have to try some of this in the HP6P Laser I just got on Ebay.
Only 7K pages printed.  $54 shipped.

Wayne

On 23/02/2010 21:54, Wayne wrote:
> Leon Heller wrote:
>> On 23/02/2010 20:04, sailingto wrote:
>>> errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?
>>>
>>> I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation). It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack.  By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.
>>>
>>> Tell us more about this baking paper.
>>
>> I think it's coated with Teflon.
>>
>> Leon
>
> I just pulled a box of Reynolds Parchment Paper, baking paper out
> of the wife's cupboard.
>
> <--- Quote -->
>
> Genuine Parchment paper
> Enhanced non-stick properties allow foods to release better
> Oven safe to 420 deg F
> Paper made in France

I looked it up. Thin Teflon sheet is used for baking, apparently, but it 
doesn't contain paper.

-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Hi, 

 

To address your original question, I ask: Do the rough edges of the
resulting trace have "hills" or "valleys?" 

 

If "hills"-toner extending outside the edge of the desired
trace-printing is probably the problem. Maybe it's the generic toner.

 

If "valleys"-indentations inside the desired trace-I would guess the
paper is the problem, or maybe the iron/laminator heat is too low. It
kind of sounds like this is your problem. If so, I would be really
concerned about pinholes or cracks in the resist because it's not
transferring all the toner to the board. Were it mine, I'd dump the
baking paper or leave it in the kitchen.

 

BTW (someone correct me if I'm wrong), I believe the problem with
Brother printers is not in the printing. It's in transferring the toner
to the board since they use a higher temperature toner than HP does.

 

Jim

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Piers Goodhew
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:16 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] baking paper TT

 

  

I saw this mentioned recently and thought I'd give it a go. Here are
some findings and some questions

I'm having no problems getting the paper thru the printer: I just cut a
section the size of my board and tape it onto a printout of the board on
full-size paper (so it's positioned right). I tape only the leading edge
and so far it's been fine. (I should add that, in order to preserve my
materials for as long as possible, I make all may boards as small as
possible and the paper's never been bigger than about a credit card).

Removing the baking paper is a joy - just peel it away, but I am
noticing that the edges are very rough, and if I hold the baking paper
to the light, there are some very tiny traces of toner left behind on
the edges. The complicating factor is that the very same time I started
using baking paper, we went started a new generic toner cartridge, but I
thought I'd see if anyone had any experiences.

* has anyone seen a particular toner produce rough edges? It does appear
pretty good when still on the paper
* Would baking paper require a higher heat? I've been increasing heat
and time but no change yet (as always, we're talking a fairly small
sample here)

What does that brother toner look like when improperly stuck? This toner
sticks to paper perfectly well, so I don't think it's radically
different.

(printer's HP 5MP and I'm still using the iron)

PG





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________

From: Leon Heller <leon355@btinternet.com>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 10:16:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: baking paper TT

  
On 23/02/2010 21:54, Wayne wrote:
> Leon Heller wrote:
>> On 23/02/2010 20:04, sailingto wrote:
>>> errrr, Baking paper? that is a new one on me... Perhaps because I don't do much baking. Where do we find baking paper - in the baking section of grocery store?
>>>
>>> I use mostly Pulsar Toner Transfer paper now (with some HP Presentation) . It's available from Digikey for maybe $17 or so for a 10 pack. By cutting the paper as you describe and taping to another paper, and reusing the same paper several times the cost is well less than $20/yr.... maybe $10/yr as I only do 3 or 4 boards per month on average.
>>>
>>> Tell us more about this baking paper.
>>
>> I think it's coated with Teflon.
>>
>> Leon
>
> I just pulled a box of Reynolds Parchment Paper, baking paper out
> of the wife's cupboard.
>
> <--- Quote -->
>
> Genuine Parchment paper
> Enhanced non-stick properties allow foods to release better
> Oven safe to 420 deg F
> Paper made in France

I looked it up. Thin Teflon sheet is used for baking, apparently, but it 
doesn't contain paper.

-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again!

Yep!  That's the stuff!  Parchment paper.  The other tool that seems to be popping up is the non-stick, silicone baking sheet that's made in France, and goes by the name of "Silpat".  Silpat sheets are indeed non-stick, and are the size of a standard half-sheet baking pan (think grocery store birthday cake size).  The downside is that: 1.) They're not cheap (probably around $35-40USD on average), and  2.) You'll have to find a restaurant supply house, or a specialty cooking or baking store to find one.

Should work just fine, but parchment would of course be much less expensive.

Those are the only non-stick papers/sheets that I'm aware of... Any bakers out there?

HTH _ Hope This Helps/Happy To Help!

Dave - Still Lost in the "wilds" of Colorado... 




________________________________

From: michael tenore <wb2lcw@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 5:46:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: baking paper TT

>
> I just pulled a box of Reynolds Parchment Paper, baking paper out
> of the wife's cupboard.
>
> <--- Quote -->
>
> Genuine Parchment paper
> Enhanced non-stick properties allow foods to release better
> Oven safe to 420 deg F
> Paper made in France

I looked it up. Thin Teflon sheet is used for baking, apparently, but it 
doesn't contain paper.

-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave Garfield wrote:
> Hi again!
> 
> Yep!� That's the stuff!� Parchment paper.� The other tool that seems to be popping up is the non-stick, silicone�baking sheet that's made in�France, and goes by the name of "Silpat".� Silpat sheets are indeed non-stick, and are the size of a standard half-sheet baking pan (think grocery store birthday cake size).� The downside is that: 1.) They're not cheap (probably around $35-40USD on average), and� 2.) You'll have to find a restaurant supply house, or a specialty cooking or baking store to find one.
> 
> Should work just fine, but parchment would of course be much less expensive.
> 
> Those are the only non-stick papers/sheets that I'm aware of... Any bakers out there?
> 
> HTH _ Hope This Helps/Happy To Help!
> 
> Dave - Still Lost in the "wilds" of�Colorado...�
> 

Check out Silpat on Amazon.com.  A 11 5/8 x 15 1/2 sheet goes for 
$19.95.  They are made of fiberglass and sprayed with food grade Silicone.

I worry about the thickness of the Silpat plus the thickness of the
PCB giving my laninator's a hard time though.

I'll try out the Parchment paper soon, and report back.

Wayne

Hi All,

Baking paper musty have a special name in the US, but the post I read here
(which I thought was from one of the "heavy regulars" like Greenfield or
Delorie) said it was silicon impregnated. Australian baking paper is
available in supermarkets near where the tin foil and cling wrap live (and
is dispnsed similarly on a roll) and is wayyyy cheaper than the Silpat
mentioned.

As ever, wikipedia has some good info (more than I knew):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_paper

Regarding the hills or valleys, it would appear to be, um, thinned - looks
like some of the edges are sticking to the paper, not the board, which I
suppose could be down to them not being pressed against the copper. 'Cos I'm
making them so small, it is hard to drag the edge of the iron over the
board, which is what I normally do to get higher pressure.

Regarding brother-or-not, what I was trying to say is "the HP's able to fuse
this toner, so it probably can't be that different a melt-point"

Thanks for all the follow up. For folks about to try it: I don't think it
would be a good idea to stick a whole A4/Letter sized sheet in yr printers
solo, it's very thin. What's worked for me is an "island" of the stuff,
taped down on the leading edge

PG

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Wayne <linuxone@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dave Garfield wrote:
> > Hi again!
> >
> > Yep!� That's the stuff!� Parchment paper.� The other tool that seems to
> be popping up is the non-stick, silicone�baking sheet that's made in�France,
> and goes by the name of "Silpat".� Silpat sheets are indeed non-stick, and
> are the size of a standard half-sheet baking pan (think grocery store
> birthday cake size).� The downside is that: 1.) They're not cheap (probably
> around $35-40USD on average), and� 2.) You'll have to find a restaurant
> supply house, or a specialty cooking or baking store to find one.
> >
> > Should work just fine, but parchment would of course be much less
> expensive.
> >
> > Those are the only non-stick papers/sheets that I'm aware of... Any
> bakers out there?
> >
> > HTH _ Hope This Helps/Happy To Help!
> >
> > Dave - Still Lost in the "wilds" of�Colorado...�
> >
>
> Check out Silpat on Amazon.com. A 11 5/8 x 15 1/2 sheet goes for
> $19.95. They are made of fiberglass and sprayed with food grade Silicone.
>
> I worry about the thickness of the Silpat plus the thickness of the
> PCB giving my laninator's a hard time though.
>
> I'll try out the Parchment paper soon, and report back.
>
> Wayne
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This stuff?

<http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=xprd388390>

Shorter URL:
http://tinyurl.com/yzxv6sy

Silicone treated parchment paper. Note: $4.99 US for 41 square feet.

Steve Greenfield

PS "heavy regular?" :')


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

>
> Hi All,
> 
> Baking paper musty have a special name in the US, but the post I read here
> (which I thought was from one of the "heavy regulars" like Greenfield or
> Delorie) said it was silicon impregnated. Australian baking paper is
> available in supermarkets near where the tin foil and cling wrap live (and
> is dispnsed similarly on a roll) and is wayyyy cheaper than the Silpat
> mentioned.
> 
> As ever, wikipedia has some good info (more than I knew):
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_paper
> 
> Regarding the hills or valleys, it would appear to be, um, thinned - looks
> like some of the edges are sticking to the paper, not the board, which I
> suppose could be down to them not being pressed against the copper. 'Cos I'm
> making them so small, it is hard to drag the edge of the iron over the
> board, which is what I normally do to get higher pressure.
> 
> Regarding brother-or-not, what I was trying to say is "the HP's able to fuse
> this toner, so it probably can't be that different a melt-point"
> 
> Thanks for all the follow up. For folks about to try it: I don't think it
> would be a good idea to stick a whole A4/Letter sized sheet in yr printers
> solo, it's very thin. What's worked for me is an "island" of the stuff,
> taped down on the leading edge
> 
> PG
> 
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Wayne <linuxone@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Dave Garfield wrote:
> > > Hi again!
> > >
> > > Yep!� That's the stuff!� Parchment paper.� The other tool that seems to
> > be popping up is the non-stick, silicone�baking sheet that's made in�France,
> > and goes by the name of "Silpat".� Silpat sheets are indeed non-stick, and
> > are the size of a standard half-sheet baking pan (think grocery store
> > birthday cake size).� The downside is that: 1.) They're not cheap (probably
> > around $35-40USD on average), and� 2.) You'll have to find a restaurant
> > supply house, or a specialty cooking or baking store to find one.
> > >
> > > Should work just fine, but parchment would of course be much less
> > expensive.
> > >
> > > Those are the only non-stick papers/sheets that I'm aware of... Any
> > bakers out there?
> > >
> > > HTH _ Hope This Helps/Happy To Help!
> > >
> > > Dave - Still Lost in the "wilds" of�Colorado...�
> > >
> >
> > Check out Silpat on Amazon.com. A 11 5/8 x 15 1/2 sheet goes for
> > $19.95. They are made of fiberglass and sprayed with food grade Silicone.
> >
> > I worry about the thickness of the Silpat plus the thickness of the
> > PCB giving my laninator's a hard time though.
> >
> > I'll try out the Parchment paper soon, and report back.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> As ever, wikipedia has some good info (more than I knew):
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_paper

That is a very good article on baking paper - reading that article and from info provided by the group, I have learned what baking paper is.  From the description it sounds like it might work pretty good.  I'll try it one of these days.

Requiring taping to a carrier paper is ok - I do that with the Pulsar Toner Transfer paper anyway - cutting small pieces just large as the board and re-using the same piece of paper several times makes it inexpensive to use, but always enjoy trying something new.

Ken H>

Wayne, did you ever try the baking paper?  If so, what are your results.

I just tried it a few minutes ago and BOY AM I IMPRESSED!!  It's better than the Pulsar paper, OR any other paper I've used like the HP Presentation paper. Both those work and make a nice transfer, but this is so much easier.

I just did a 2X3" board with traces and full ground planes.  Ran thru twice at 300F and the paper just slides off with NO trace of toner left on paper, nor any paper on PCB. The traces look good and dark - the ground plane does have some thin spots, but since there is no toner left on the paper I have to lay that blame to the HP P1006 printer, and it was starting to show those light spots on Pulsar and HP Presentation paper. I have 500 pages on a starter toner so that might be the problem... low toner?

One thing that just occurs to me - double sided boards.  The parchment paper is so thin and slick it might be hard to hold in place while lining up both sides.

Thank you Piers and others for bringing this paper to my attention.

Ken H>

> I just pulled a box of Reynolds Parchment Paper, baking paper out
> of the wife's cupboard.
> 
> <--- Quote -->
> 
> Genuine Parchment paper
> Enhanced non-stick properties allow foods to release better
> Oven safe to 420 deg F
> Paper made in France
> 
> <-- end Quote -->
> 
> 30 Sq FT 24ft x 15 inches
> Cost $3.00 US.
> 
> I'll have to try some of this in the HP6P Laser I just got on Ebay.
> Only 7K pages printed.  $54 shipped.
> 
> Wayne
>

sailingto wrote:
> Wayne, did you ever try the baking paper?  If so, what are your results.
> 
> I just tried it a few minutes ago and BOY AM I IMPRESSED!!  It's better than the Pulsar paper, OR any other paper I've used like the HP Presentation paper. Both those work and make a nice transfer, but this is so much easier.
> 
> I just did a 2X3" board with traces and full ground planes.  Ran thru twice at 300F and the paper just slides off with NO trace of toner left on paper, nor any paper on PCB. The traces look good and dark - the ground plane does have some thin spots, but since there is no toner left on the paper I have to lay that blame to the HP P1006 printer, and it was starting to show those light spots on Pulsar and HP Presentation paper. I have 500 pages on a starter toner so that might be the problem... low toner?
> 
> One thing that just occurs to me - double sided boards.  The parchment paper is so thin and slick it might be hard to hold in place while lining up both sides.
> 
> Thank you Piers and others for bringing this paper to my attention.
> 

Not yet.  We've had a bit of snow come down and have been real busy 
keeping the driveway cleared, and cleared, and cleared.  Went to the sat 
dish to clean it off and had to use snowshoes and a 4 foot walking 
stick.  The stick 2 inches of the stick above the snow.

Got the new printer but have not even had time to get it set up yet.

Maybe this weekend but the weather reports say snow day and night till 
Monday.

Sorry....

Wayne

snow shoes?  4 ft walking stick with 2 inches sticking out?  Wayne you live in the WRONG part of the world!!  Down here I complain when (if) have frost on the windshield! {grinning}

I'll be looking forward to your test - I got a email from Bob saying he was going to try it this weekend also.

Ken H

> dish to clean it off and had to use snowshoes and a 4 foot walking 
> stick.  The stick 2 inches of the stick above the snow.
> 
> Got the new printer but have not even had time to get it set up yet.
> 
> Maybe this weekend but the weather reports say snow day and night till 
> Monday.
> 
> Sorry....
> 
> Wayne
>

What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a special high-temp adhesive tape for this?

(I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it crinkled in the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do that again :)

Thanks,
Donald.
----- "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

> Wayne, did you ever try the baking paper?  If so, what are your
> results.
> 
> I just tried it a few minutes ago and BOY AM I IMPRESSED!!  It's
> better than the Pulsar paper, OR any other paper I've used like the HP
> Presentation paper. Both those work and make a nice transfer, but this
> is so much easier.
> 
> I just did a 2X3" board with traces and full ground planes.  Ran thru
> twice at 300F and the paper just slides off with NO trace of toner
> left on paper, nor any paper on PCB. The traces look good and dark -
> the ground plane does have some thin spots, but since there is no
> toner left on the paper I have to lay that blame to the HP P1006
> printer, and it was starting to show those light spots on Pulsar and
> HP Presentation paper. I have 500 pages on a starter toner so that
> might be the problem... low toner?
> 
> One thing that just occurs to me - double sided boards.  The parchment
> paper is so thin and slick it might be hard to hold in place while
> lining up both sides.
> 
> Thank you Piers and others for bringing this paper to my attention.
> 
> Ken H>

[snip]

Donald, I bet it was a real pain - as thin as that baking paper is I would be very concerned about trying it without a carrier.

I have managed to find this highly technical tape that works really good.  It's a clear tape that is only available at certain places... like drug stores, grocery stores....  well actually most anyplace.

It's called "scotch tape" - Yep, just the simple old scotch tape you'll find anywhere.  I've used it for taping paper to carrier pages for a good while.  Works just find. Heck, it even worked for a single pass thru a Brother printer at 400F+ ok - it did show signs of overheating there.

I just print an outline of the board to standard paper, then cut the baking paper (or Pulsar) to a size just larger than the outline, tape it on the leading edge only, and run it thru. 

I do set the printer to max density, high res, and heavy card stock setting to get as much toner down as possible.

Give it a try and do let us know how it works.  I'm interested and will be doing a few more just to test.  For these tests I'm not doing any etching, just examine the PCB to check how well the toner transfers.  So far, I'm impressed.  That baking paper just falls off. 

ken H.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:

>
> What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a special high-temp adhesive tape for this?
> 
> (I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it crinkled in the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do that again :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Donald.

There is a black high-temp masking tape I used to buy when I was putting pictures on ceramic mugs. One day I ran out and grabbed a roll of regular masking tape to give it a try, it worked! It was a little gummy, though. But when I tried the blue masking tape, it worked great without the gummy stuff.

I know a lot of members of the Inkjet Heat Transfers group are using that same blue masking tape in heat presses successfully. Dye sub requires temperatures well in excess of 400F.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:

>
> What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a special high-temp adhesive tape for this?
> 
> (I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it crinkled in the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do that again :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Donald.

Many thanks to Ken and Steve.  I'll give regular Scotch tape, blue masking and regular masking tapes a whirl!  I just don't want to leave any bad schtuff (TM) in someone else's printer (I don't own a laser printer myself; I rely on others' for my operatons.)

Donald.
----- "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

> Donald, I bet it was a real pain - as thin as that baking paper is I
> would be very concerned about trying it without a carrier.
> 
> I have managed to find this highly technical tape that works really
> good.  It's a clear tape that is only available at certain places...
> like drug stores, grocery stores....  well actually most anyplace.
> 
> It's called "scotch tape" - Yep, just the simple old scotch tape
> you'll find anywhere.  I've used it for taping paper to carrier pages
> for a good while.  Works just find. Heck, it even worked for a single
> pass thru a Brother printer at 400F+ ok - it did show signs of
> overheating there.
> 
> I just print an outline of the board to standard paper, then cut the
> baking paper (or Pulsar) to a size just larger than the outline, tape
> it on the leading edge only, and run it thru. 
> 
> I do set the printer to max density, high res, and heavy card stock
> setting to get as much toner down as possible.
> 
> Give it a try and do let us know how it works.  I'm interested and
> will be doing a few more just to test.  For these tests I'm not doing
> any etching, just examine the PCB to check how well the toner
> transfers.  So far, I'm impressed.  That baking paper just falls off.
> 
> 
> ken H.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a
> special high-temp adhesive tape for this?
> > 
> > (I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it
> crinkled in the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do
> that again :)
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Donald.
>

i've used 'normal sticky tape' and some left over avery labels with no problems

PG

---- Sent using a phone. 'Scuse the typos etc.

-original message-
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: baking paper TT
From: "Donald H Locker" <dhlocker@...>
Date: 27/02/2010 12:59

Many thanks to Ken and Steve.  I'll give regular Scotch tape, blue masking and regular masking tapes a whirl!  I just don't want to leave any bad schtuff (TM) in someone else's printer (I don't own a laser printer myself; I rely on others' for my operatons.)

Donald.
----- "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

> Donald, I bet it was a real pain - as thin as that baking paper is I
> would be very concerned about trying it without a carrier.
> 
> I have managed to find this highly technical tape that works really
> good.  It's a clear tape that is only available at certain places...
> like drug stores, grocery stores....  well actually most anyplace.
> 
> It's called "scotch tape" - Yep, just the simple old scotch tape
> you'll find anywhere.  I've used it for taping paper to carrier pages
> for a good while.  Works just find. Heck, it even worked for a single
> pass thru a Brother printer at 400F+ ok - it did show signs of
> overheating there.
> 
> I just print an outline of the board to standard paper, then cut the
> baking paper (or Pulsar) to a size just larger than the outline, tape
> it on the leading edge only, and run it thru. 
> 
> I do set the printer to max density, high res, and heavy card stock
> setting to get as much toner down as possible.
> 
> Give it a try and do let us know how it works.  I'm interested and
> will be doing a few more just to test.  For these tests I'm not doing
> any etching, just examine the PCB to check how well the toner
> transfers.  So far, I'm impressed.  That baking paper just falls off.
> 
> 
> ken H.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a
> special high-temp adhesive tape for this?
> > 
> > (I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it
> crinkled in the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do
> that again :)
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Donald.
>

The blue stuff is used by carpenters, woodworking places will have it.  A 
bit odd it handles high temperatures.

Kapton tape is what you 'usually' use, it's good to around 300 celcius 
(550F?).  Used in powdercoating to mask off the stuff you don't want coated. 
Comes in green and brown, I've found the brown stuff sticks better and comes 
off cleaner (no gummy bits) if you pull it off gently.

www.dealextreme.com have the brown tape in various widths, 3mm-20mm if I 
recall.  It's pretty cheap (<$5 per roll), and you can use it to tape down 
wires, sensors and other stuff without worrying about it melting.  The 
website says 200 degrees C in some places, but that's a typo.

Tony

> There is a black high-temp masking tape I used to buy when I was putting 
> pictures on ceramic mugs. One day I ran out and grabbed a roll of regular 
> masking tape to give it a try, it worked! It was a little gummy, though. 
> But when I tried the blue masking tape, it worked great without the gummy 
> stuff.
>
> I know a lot of members of the Inkjet Heat Transfers group are using that 
> same blue masking tape in heat presses successfully. Dye sub requires 
> temperatures well in excess of 400F.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> 
> wrote:
>>
>> What did you use to tape it to the carrier paper?  Is there a special 
>> high-temp adhesive tape for this?
>>
>> (I did try Reynolds baking paper without carrier once, but it crinkled in 
>> the printer and was a right pain to remove.  So I won't do that again :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Donald.

Did you actually etch that board?

For some reason solicone coated paper is far more prone to problems
with ground planes and wide traces. I've given up using it for
anything except component legend print a few years ago.

ST

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:55 PM, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> Wayne, did you ever try the baking paper?  If so, what are your results.
>
> I just tried it a few minutes ago and BOY AM I IMPRESSED!!  It's better than the Pulsar paper, OR any other paper I've used like the HP Presentation paper. Both those work and make a nice transfer, but this is so much easier.
>
> I just did a 2X3" board with traces and full ground planes.  Ran thru twice at 300F and the paper just slides off with NO trace of toner left on paper, nor any paper on PCB. The traces look good and dark - the ground plane does have some thin spots, but since there is no toner left on the paper I have to lay that blame to the HP P1006 printer, and it was starting to show those light spots on Pulsar and HP Presentation paper. I have 500 pages on a starter toner so that might be the problem... low toner?
>

No I have not tried to etch a board.  By "prone to problems" - what type of problems to you mean? The copper looked very clean...  Is there a bit of silicone left on the copper that prevents the copper from etching good?

Wait, you said ground planes and wide traces - that would indicate the toner portion gave problems - etched thru the toner?  I did notice the ground plane had several light spots but thought that was due to toner cartridge was getting low....  Oh well - bummer I guess:(

I've got a couple of buddies who plan to make boards this weekend - we'll see how it turns out for them.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> Did you actually etch that board?
> 
> For some reason solicone coated paper is far more prone to problems
> with ground planes and wide traces. I've given up using it for
> anything except component legend print a few years ago.
> 
> ST

Yes, bummer, as you put it.

Still looks very nice as component legend!

ST

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:50 AM, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> No I have not tried to etch a board.  By "prone to problems" - what type of problems to you mean? The copper looked very clean...  Is there a bit of silicone left on the copper that prevents the copper from etching good?
>
> Wait, you said ground planes and wide traces - that would indicate the toner portion gave problems - etched thru the toner?  I did notice the ground plane had several light spots but thought that was due to toner cartridge was getting low....  Oh well - bummer I guess:(
>
> I've got a couple of buddies who plan to make boards this weekend - we'll see how it turns out for them.
>
> Ken H>
>

OK Folks - ST has a very valid point with the parchment paper.  I have done a couple more transfers and the ground plane does NOT get good coverage - I do think it's due to the paper.  As a control I did a toner transfer using Pulsar paper with printer settings the same, laminator temperature the same, and even used PCB off the same sheet, with same prep.

There is a BIG difference in the ground planes.  No need to etch the parchment paper transfer - I knew before it wasn't good, just thought it might have been my toner getting low. 

The Pulsar paper was not even new - I'd already done 2 or 3 TTs using that same piece of paper.

Oh well. Great idea anyway.  "IF" you don't use a ground plane with only traces - and the traces do not exceed .020", the Parchment paper just might turn out a good etch.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, bummer, as you put it.
> 
> Still looks very nice as component legend!
> 
> ST