Homebrew PCBs

Hi
I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%) 
and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!

So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
some air in.

I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into 
the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long for?)

When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?

Hope that someone can put me right on this

Regards
Howard

You don't need to add more copper. The dark green is cuprous chloride. 
Add more H2O2 or bubble air through it to convert it to cupric chloride. 
It will turn a lighter green as it converts. You may need to add acid if 
it doesn't etch very well. IME bubbling air through it takes quite a 
long time. You need fine air bubbles like you get from an air stone but 
air stones disintegrate in the acid.

Les

Howard wrote:

> Hi
> I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%) 
> and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
> amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
> bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!
>
> So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
> Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
> some air in.
>
> I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
> it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into 
> the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long for?)
>
> When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?
>
> Hope that someone can put me right on this
>
> Regards
> Howard
>

Do you think porous polyethylene rod would work as a bubbler?  See 
<http://www.smallparts.com/Polyethylene-Porous-Diameter-Average-Microns/dp/B000FN1FCY?ie=UTF8&qid=1269869358&sr=1-14&pf_rd_r=151FSQ0N41GE7V0WYX7V&pf_rd_m=A2LPUKX2E7NPQV&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_p=493388211&pf_rd_s=center-3>

Mark

At 08:24 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote:

>You don't need to add more copper. The dark green is cuprous chloride.
>Add more H2O2 or bubble air through it to convert it to cupric chloride.
>It will turn a lighter green as it converts. You may need to add acid if
>it doesn't etch very well. IME bubbling air through it takes quite a
>long time. You need fine air bubbles like you get from an air stone but
>air stones disintegrate in the acid.
>
>Les
>
>Howard wrote:
> > Hi
> > I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%)
> > and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
> > amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
> > bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!
> >
> > So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
> > Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
> > some air in.
> >
> > I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
> > it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into
> > the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long for?)
> >
> > When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?
> >
> > Hope that someone can put me right on this
> >
> > Regards
> > Howard
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

At $50 a go, i dont think it is cost effective, but prob will work

Howard


On 29 March 2010 14:31, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Do you think porous polyethylene rod would work as a bubbler? See
> <
> http://www.smallparts.com/Polyethylene-Porous-Diameter-Average-Microns/dp/B000FN1FCY?ie=UTF8&qid=1269869358&sr=1-14&pf_rd_r=151FSQ0N41GE7V0WYX7V&pf_rd_m=A2LPUKX2E7NPQV&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_p=493388211&pf_rd_s=center-3
> >
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 08:24 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote:
> >You don't need to add more copper. The dark green is cuprous chloride.
> >Add more H2O2 or bubble air through it to convert it to cupric chloride.
> >It will turn a lighter green as it converts. You may need to add acid if
> >it doesn't etch very well. IME bubbling air through it takes quite a
> >long time. You need fine air bubbles like you get from an air stone but
> >air stones disintegrate in the acid.
> >
> >Les
> >
> >Howard wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%)
> > > and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
> > > amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
> > > bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!
> > >
> > > So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
> > > Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
> > > some air in.
> > >
> > > I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
> > > it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into
> > > the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long for?)
> > >
> > > When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?
> > >
> > > Hope that someone can put me right on this
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Howard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
>
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
73's Howard G7LQY
GQRP: 12549
Loc: IO83UO
LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry NOT cost effective

Howard


On 29 March 2010 14:37, Howard Payne <howard_g7lqy@...> wrote:

> At $50 a go, i dont think it is cost effective, but prob will work
>
> Howard
>
>
>
> On 29 March 2010 14:31, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you think porous polyethylene rod would work as a bubbler? See
>> <
>> http://www.smallparts.com/Polyethylene-Porous-Diameter-Average-Microns/dp/B000FN1FCY?ie=UTF8&qid=1269869358&sr=1-14&pf_rd_r=151FSQ0N41GE7V0WYX7V&pf_rd_m=A2LPUKX2E7NPQV&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_p=493388211&pf_rd_s=center-3
>> >
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> At 08:24 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote:
>> >You don't need to add more copper. The dark green is cuprous chloride.
>> >Add more H2O2 or bubble air through it to convert it to cupric chloride.
>> >It will turn a lighter green as it converts. You may need to add acid if
>> >it doesn't etch very well. IME bubbling air through it takes quite a
>> >long time. You need fine air bubbles like you get from an air stone but
>> >air stones disintegrate in the acid.
>> >
>> >Les
>> >
>> >Howard wrote:
>> > > Hi
>> > > I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%)
>> > > and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
>> > > amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
>> > > bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!
>> > >
>> > > So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
>> > > Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
>> > > some air in.
>> > >
>> > > I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
>> > > it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into
>> > > the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long
>> for?)
>> > >
>> > > When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?
>> > >
>> > > Hope that someone can put me right on this
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > > Howard
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> Photos:
>> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>  
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 73's Howard G7LQY
> GQRP: 12549
> Loc: IO83UO
> LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...
>
>


-- 
73's Howard G7LQY
GQRP: 12549
Loc: IO83UO
LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok i have put the mix into the maga-uk bubble etch tank pa104 and put the
air pump
on and after a short time the mix starts to froth up and the froth starts to
come over
the top of the tank! the air pump was only on for a few mins

Is this normal!! ??

Regards
Howard

On 29 March 2010 14:38, Howard Payne <howard_g7lqy@...> wrote:

> Sorry NOT cost effective
>
> Howard
>
>
>
> On 29 March 2010 14:37, Howard Payne <howard_g7lqy@...> wrote:
>
>> At $50 a go, i dont think it is cost effective, but prob will work
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 March 2010 14:31, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...m.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think porous polyethylene rod would work as a bubbler? See
>>> <
>>> http://www.smallparts.com/Polyethylene-Porous-Diameter-Average-Microns/dp/B000FN1FCY?ie=UTF8&qid=1269869358&sr=1-14&pf_rd_r=151FSQ0N41GE7V0WYX7V&pf_rd_m=A2LPUKX2E7NPQV&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_p=493388211&pf_rd_s=center-3
>>> >
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> At 08:24 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote:
>>> >You don't need to add more copper. The dark green is cuprous chloride.
>>> >Add more H2O2 or bubble air through it to convert it to cupric chloride.
>>> >It will turn a lighter green as it converts. You may need to add acid if
>>> >it doesn't etch very well. IME bubbling air through it takes quite a
>>> >long time. You need fine air bubbles like you get from an air stone but
>>> >air stones disintegrate in the acid.
>>> >
>>> >Les
>>> >
>>> >Howard wrote:
>>> > > Hi
>>> > > I have been doing etching with HCI (Spirits of salt 32%)
>>> > > and H202 (6%) in a mix of 1 part HCI to 1 part H202, in small
>>> > > amounts (.5ltr), after etching i then put the acid into a 3ltr
>>> > > bottle, now the bottle is full of medium to dark green stuff!
>>> > >
>>> > > So now i would like to make use of it to make CuCI.
>>> > > Now i think that i need to add some copper to the mix and pump
>>> > > some air in.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have a Mega-UK type of tank with a built in air pump and heater
>>> > > it holds about 5ltrs. Could i just put the 3ltrs of used mix into
>>> > > the tank, add some copper(how much?) and turn on the air(how long
>>> for?)
>>> > >
>>> > > When will i know when it is converted to CuCI ?
>>> > >
>>> > > Hope that someone can put me right on this
>>> > >
>>> > > Regards
>>> > > Howard
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >------------------------------------
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>>> Photos:
>>> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73's Howard G7LQY
>> GQRP: 12549
>> Loc: IO83UO
>> LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 73's Howard G7LQY
> GQRP: 12549
> Loc: IO83UO
> LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...
>
>


-- 
73's Howard G7LQY
GQRP: 12549
Loc: IO83UO
LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have had success mixing 1:1 15% HCl and 3% H2O2.  The Copper (I) Chloride
is not very soluble and will make the solution opaque.  If it is a clear
emerald green you are good.  If brown and murky looking add a capfull of
H2O2.  It is also good to evaporate the solution a little after every use so
that adding H2O2 will not dilute the Copper (II) Chloride too much.

Chris Maness
KQ6UP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you have dark green, you have CuCl.  Pour it into your other tank and 
turn on the bubbler, that's all.  Note: dark GREEN is good, dark BROWN 
needs more air time.

See http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/ for the 
rest of the chemistry :-)

Yes it is dark green\black, it go's darker with use, but when i put the
air pump on, it foams up (frothy) and starts to come out the top of the tank
is this ok ? am using the pump cos i think that it needs more air time!

On 29 March 2010 17:12, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
>
> If you have dark green, you have CuCl. Pour it into your other tank and
> turn on the bubbler, that's all. Note: dark GREEN is good, dark BROWN
> needs more air time.
>
> See http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/<http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Eeseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/>for the
> rest of the chemistry :-)
>  
>



-- 
73's Howard G7LQY
GQRP: 12549
Loc: IO83UO
LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can you reduce the volume of air?  Or, you might want to add H2O2 
instead of air, it might have too much HCl in it, or if it's too dark, 
too much Cu.  Check Adam's site for details on how to tell what's going 
on in your tank.

>
> Yes it is dark green\black, it go's darker with use, but when i put the
> air pump on, it foams up (frothy) and starts to come out the top of the tank
> is this ok ? am using the pump cos i think that it needs more air time!
> 
>


Did it get contaminated with detergent of some sort? Was the peroxide you used just peroxide, or some sort of hair product with additives? Mine doesn't froth at all.

Hi
The ingredients as on the bottle are:
Aqua, Hydrogen Peroxide, Sodium Salicylate, Pentasodium  Pentate and
Phosphoric Acid.
It is 6% 20vol in a 1ltr bottle

Would any of these things that are in it, make it foam up (frothy) when i
use
the air pump ??

Howard


On 29 March 2010 22:48, James <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> >
> > Yes it is dark green\black, it go's darker with use, but when i put the
> > air pump on, it foams up (frothy) and starts to come out the top of the
> tank
> > is this ok ? am using the pump cos i think that it needs more air time!
> >
> >
>
> Did it get contaminated with detergent of some sort? Was the peroxide you
> used just peroxide, or some sort of hair product with additives? Mine
> doesn't froth at all.
>
>  
>



-- 
73's Howard G7LQY
GQRP: 12549
Loc: IO83UO
LARGE FILES TO: hjpayneg7@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 15:55 +0100, Howard Payne wrote: 
> Hi
> The ingredients as on the bottle are:
> Aqua, Hydrogen Peroxide, Sodium Salicylate, Pentasodium  Pentate and
> Phosphoric Acid. It is 6% 20vol in a 1ltr bottle
> 
> Would any of these things that are in it, make it foam up (frothy) when i
> use the air pump ??

Resuming the top query results from google on Pentasodium Pentate:
It's a metal chelating agent that 'inactivates' copper or metals in hard
water "creating superior foaming and cleaning performance."

> 
> Resuming the top query results from google on Pentasodium Pentate:
> It's a metal chelating agent that 'inactivates' copper or metals in hard
> water "creating superior foaming and cleaning performance."
>


Yeah that sounds like the problem. The stuff you want is straight peroxide diluted with water. The 3% drugstore stuff for washing cuts and scratches works, but the beauty supply shop near me carries 40 volume stuff without additives.