Homebrew PCBs

From: David Griffith <dgriffi@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Now, tinning
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 10:30 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      On Tue, 20 Jul 2010, Alessio Sangalli wrote:



> Hi, as I am perfectioning my PCB making, I reached a point where I can

> do very good boards, but especially if I am making a bigger, double-face

> one, with huge ground planes, tinning takes simply too much time, and if

> I want to do it properly, I end up wasting a lot of solder wick braid to

> remove the excess tin.

>

> I've read past messages but I was not able to find a method that is well

> documented and can be considered a viable solution for a hobbyst that

> makes only few boards per month.



Have you tried a cold tinplate solution like Tinnit?



-- 

David Griffith

dgriffi@....edu



A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.

Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

A: Top-posting.

Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?



    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> On 07/20/2010 10:30 PM, David Griffith wrote:
> 
> > Have you tried a cold tinplate solution like Tinnit?
> 
> No; have you? Is it good? From the web I read once you open it it lasts 
> 2-6 months. Do you know if it's possible to use "less" and prepare a 
> very small quantity for smaller boards or so?
> 
> bye
> as
>

>
> Hi, as I am perfectioning my PCB making, I reached a point where I can 
> do very good boards, but especially if I am making a bigger, double-face 
> one, with huge ground planes, tinning takes simply too much time, and if 
> I want to do it properly, I end up wasting a lot of solder wick braid to 
> remove the excess tin.
> 
> I've read past messages but I was not able to find a method that is well 
> documented and can be considered a viable solution for a hobbyst that 
> makes only few boards per month.
> 
> bye
> as
>

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

> Where do you get the chemicals? Also, do you have a very precise scale?
> My kitchen scale can theoretically meausure with the precision of one
> gram but how can I trust it for such small quantities?
>
> Do you have pictures of the process?
>
> bye
> as
>
>

>
> On 07/21/2010 10:25 AM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > Why not buy a chinese scale?
> >
> > 0.01g resolution 300g max:
> > <http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35758>
> 
> ahahah iphone shaped, who cares :)
> 
> It seems a very nice device. Now, if I only could find those chemicals...
> 
> bye
> as
>

>
> On 07/21/2010 09:29 AM, designer_craig wrote:
> > I have very good luck with elctroless tin.  The formula I use came
> > from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> >
> > .5g Stannous Chloride 2.0g Thiourea 3.0g Sulfamic Acid 100.0 mL
> > Distilled water
> 
> Where do you get the chemicals? Also, do you have a very precise scale? 
> My kitchen scale can theoretically meausure with the precision of one 
> gram but how can I trust it for such small quantities?
> 
> Do you have pictures of the process?
> 
> bye
> as
>

>
> On 07/21/2010 09:29 AM, designer_craig wrote:
> > I have very good luck with elctroless tin.  The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> >
> >                     .5g Stannous Chloride
> >                      2.0g Thiourea
> >                      3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> >                    100.0 mL Distilled water
> 
> 
> I have found the following sources, could you have a look and see if 
> they look OK?
> 
> 100g Stannous Chloride, $8.46
> http://www.boilerandcoolingwater.com/Stannous_Chloride_Powder_p/sc7555-j.htm
> 
> 1lb Diethyl Thiourea Premium Quality, $14.00
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270570789001&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=L*F%3F&GUID=989a408611e0a0aad4e6a4c6fc0c48ad&itemid=270570789001&ff4=263602_263622
> 
> 1lb Aqua Mix Sulfamic Acid Crystals, $4.91
> http://www.aquamixdirect.com/servlet/the-137/Aqua-Mix,-Sulfamic,-Acid,/Detail
> 
> And, I renew my interest in some pictures of the results you had...
> 
> bye!
> as
>

>
> 
> Six month ago people were complaining that MG chemicals Liquid tin is
> too expensive. This mixture is more expensive, harder to use and useless
> for making boards from time to time.  
> 
> I really don't advise people to buy those chemicals, one won't like
> results one month after mix. Mixing it every time one do pcb's is
> boring, and think about disposal the used stuff.
> But at least use the tin sulphate, sulphuric acid and thiourea mix. Less
> hazard and easier to get. The tin salts can be home made. There are
> metal cleaners with thiourea but too expensive.
> 
> I have a bunch of chemicals including those, my advise? Buy Mg Chemicals
> liquid tin. From what i learn is the best, good price, easy to store and
> long lasting. This group is mostly North American people should be easy
> to get there. I really wish to be able to buy it anywhere in Europe. (I
> know, they have a representative in France). 
> 
> There are from MegaUK and Ormecon equivalent products but based on
> methane suphonic acid, by what i know should be as long lasting as
> fluoroboric mix or better but the only number given is 6 months life.
> Ormecon is now part of Enthone, which is well represented everywhere.
> But since i have thiourea, one day i will asking around at tin plating
> facilities if they sell me for cheap, some of their suphonic or
> fluoboric tin electroplating solution, mix thiourea in it, and hope it
> last for a few years.
>

>
> I have very good luck with elctroless tin.  The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.  
> 
>                    .5g Stannous Chloride
>                     2.0g Thiourea
>                     3.0g Sulfamic Acid
>                   100.0 mL Distilled water
> 
> The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it.  It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching.  The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session.  I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing. 
> 
> Craig  
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, as I am perfectioning my PCB making, I reached a point where I can 
> > do very good boards, but especially if I am making a bigger, double-face 
> > one, with huge ground planes, tinning takes simply too much time, and if 
> > I want to do it properly, I end up wasting a lot of solder wick braid to 
> > remove the excess tin.
> > 
> > I've read past messages but I was not able to find a method that is well 
> > documented and can be considered a viable solution for a hobbyst that 
> > makes only few boards per month.
> > 
> > bye
> > as
> >
>

>
> Hi, as I am perfectioning my PCB making, I reached a point where I can 
> do very good boards, but especially if I am making a bigger, double-face 
> one, with huge ground planes, tinning takes simply too much time, and if 
> I want to do it properly, I end up wasting a lot of solder wick braid to 
> remove the excess tin.
> 
> I've read past messages but I was not able to find a method that is well 
> documented and can be considered a viable solution for a hobbyst that 
> makes only few boards per month.
> 
> bye
> as
>

>
> You sure it isn't Sulfuric Acid?
> I saw another formula, same chemicals, but used Sulfuric Acid instead of Sulfamic Acid.  I just want to try the Ham Radio Magazine formula.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote:
> >
> > I have very good luck with elctroless tin.  The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.  
> > 
> >                    .5g Stannous Chloride
> >                     2.0g Thiourea
> >                     3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> >                   100.0 mL Distilled water
> > 
> > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it.  It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching.  The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session.  I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing. 
> > 
> > Craig  
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, as I am perfectioning my PCB making, I reached a point where I can 
> > > do very good boards, but especially if I am making a bigger, double-face 
> > > one, with huge ground planes, tinning takes simply too much time, and if 
> > > I want to do it properly, I end up wasting a lot of solder wick braid to 
> > > remove the excess tin.
> > > 
> > > I've read past messages but I was not able to find a method that is well 
> > > documented and can be considered a viable solution for a hobbyst that 
> > > makes only few boards per month.
> > > 
> > > bye
> > > as
> > >
> >
>

>
> > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > >
> > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > >
> > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> 
> Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> 
>  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> 
> Thanks-
> Larry Battraw
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:37 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning


I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay. 
I'll let you know.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:
>
> > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came 
> > > > from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > >
> > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > >
> > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in 
> > > > a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for 
> > > > further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a 
> > > > fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up 
> > > > less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was 
> > > > doing.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
>
> Has anyone else tried this? I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> not seem to work. I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
>
>  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> been able to substitute something else for. I tried a recipe for
> electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
>
> Thanks-
> Larry Battraw
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

>
> I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> >
> > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > >
> > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > >
> > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Craig
> > 
> > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > 
> >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > 
> > Thanks-
> > Larry Battraw
> >
>

>
> Well I tried it.
> Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> me
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig
> > > 
> > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > 
> > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > 
> > > Thanks-
> > > Larry Battraw
> > >
> >
>

>
> Well I tried it.
> Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> me
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig
> > > 
> > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > 
> > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > 
> > > Thanks-
> > > Larry Battraw
> > >
> >
>

>
> On 08/19/2010 04:15 PM, Larry Battraw wrote:
> 
> > Can you let us know what items you got from eBay, from which sellers?
> > I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what you mention there.
> > Might be easier to just list the eBay numbers for the items purchased,
> > if you want.
> 
> I think they were mentioned in some earlier posts but it would be nice 
> to have a confirmation.
> 
> Fred, I loved the video BUT:
> 
> why did you use a new paper for each chemical component at the 
> beginning??? They have to be mixed anyway...
> 
> Do you think the oven part is necessary? Isn't it enough to dry it on 
> the paper towel you showed?
> 
> bye
> as
>

From: fredbutz <fredbutz@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 11:36 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      You can find the video on this page.



http://www.voodooengineering.com/index.php/component/content/article/46-tinning/89-diy-tin-plating-solutiion



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...> wrote:

>

> Well I tried it.

> Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.

> me

> 

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:

> >

> > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.

> > 

> > 

> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride

> > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea

> > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid

> > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Craig

> > > 

> > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and

> > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does

> > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,

> > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.

> > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:

> > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml

> > > 

> > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is

> > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't

> > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for

> > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and

> > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.

> > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.

> > > 

> > > Thanks-

> > > Larry Battraw

> > >

> >

>





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:09 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning


> On the paper.  I originaly planned to measure each chemical out before 
> combining them but then just ended up combining them.
> So no reason other than the dramatic effect.  :)
>
> No, the oven part isn't neccessary.  I use the oven because I have a small 
> lab oven that was easily available.  I just wanted to make sure all the 
> moisture was removed before I soldered on it.  I didn't have much time to 
> work on this.
>
> Without compressed air or an oven it takes a little while for the moisture 
> in the through holes to dry.
>
> The oven had nothing to do with the tin plating.
>
> me
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:
>>
>> On 08/19/2010 04:15 PM, Larry Battraw wrote:
>>
>> > Can you let us know what items you got from eBay, from which sellers?
>> > I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what you mention there.
>> > Might be easier to just list the eBay numbers for the items purchased,
>> > if you want.
>>
>> I think they were mentioned in some earlier posts but it would be nice
>> to have a confirmation.
>>
>> Fred, I loved the video BUT:
>>
>> why did you use a new paper for each chemical component at the
>> beginning??? They have to be mixed anyway...
>>
>> Do you think the oven part is necessary? Isn't it enough to dry it on
>> the paper towel you showed?
>>
>> bye
>> as
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

From: "Alessio Sangalli" <alesan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning


> On 08/20/2010 06:30 AM, Bob Macklin wrote:
>> What's wrong with using this stuff?
>> http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ER-18/TINNIT-BRIGHT-TIN-PLATE//1.html
>
> Have you tried it?
>
> bye
> as
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

>
> Well I tried it.
> Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> me
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig
> > > 
> > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > 
> > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > 
> > > Thanks-
> > > Larry Battraw
> > >
> >
>

From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:27 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      On 08/20/2010 03:15 AM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:

> Looks good, thanks, nice to know the formula works. One thing I found

> with electroless tin was that when used on PCB tracks on a high

> impedance circuit, was the tin seemed to coat the non-copper areas of

> the FR4 board and significantly reduce the impedance.



I am not a very "analog" guy because I think in terms of "short" or 

"open". What do you mean exactly here? Is the tinning "shorting" tracks?



My question at this point: we saw it works of a "solid" PCB, but how 

good is it on an etched circuit?



bye

as





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Larry,
> Glad the tin formula worked out for you, I did lots of boards with it.  Looks like you have a nice PCB processing setup.  Your hole activation and plating video for plated throuch holes was interesting.  After the copper plating, I assume you re-image the board with new dry film then etch.  How do you make sure you don't etch out the holes you just plated?  Is the dry film strong enough to tent all the holes or do you use a tin/lead process?
> 
> Craig
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> >
> > Well I tried it.
> > Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> > me
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Craig
> > > > 
> > > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > > 
> > > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks-
> > > > Larry Battraw
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> Alessio
> 
> It does not short two tracks, but adds a high value of resistance between the tracks, more of a problem on low power digital and analogue systems.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
> 
> --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:27 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Â 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       On 08/20/2010 03:15 AM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
> 
> > Looks good, thanks, nice to know the formula works. One thing I found
> 
> > with electroless tin was that when used on PCB tracks on a high
> 
> > impedance circuit, was the tin seemed to coat the non-copper areas of
> 
> > the FR4 board and significantly reduce the impedance.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a very "analog" guy because I think in terms of "short" or 
> 
> "open". What do you mean exactly here? Is the tinning "shorting" tracks?
> 
> 
> 
> My question at this point: we saw it works of a "solid" PCB, but how 
> 
> good is it on an etched circuit?
> 
> 
> 
> bye
> 
> as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
>      
> 
>     
>     
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning


Just as an FYI, when I do use the tin, I do it after the solder mask.
So there aren't any traces to change the impedance.

But while were on the negatives.  :)

There are also cases where the tin plate grows whiskers over time and can 
cause a short later in life.  If you google for tin plating whiskers you'll 
see it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg 
<mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
>
> Alessio
>
> It does not short two tracks, but adds a high value of resistance between 
> the tracks, more of a problem on low power digital and analogue systems.
>
> Malcolm
>
> I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
>
> --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:
>
> From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Now, tinning
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:27 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> \ufffd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       On 08/20/2010 03:15 AM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
>
> > Looks good, thanks, nice to know the formula works. One thing I found
>
> > with electroless tin was that when used on PCB tracks on a high
>
> > impedance circuit, was the tin seemed to coat the non-copper areas of
>
> > the FR4 board and significantly reduce the impedance.
>
>
>
> I am not a very "analog" guy because I think in terms of "short" or
>
> "open". What do you mean exactly here? Is the tinning "shorting" tracks?
>
>
>
> My question at this point: we saw it works of a "solid" PCB, but how
>
> good is it on an etched circuit?
>
>
>
> bye
>
> as
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

>
> Craig,
> I don't wet etch.  After plating I use the CNC mill and mechanically etch the traces.  Then solder mask using the same process as the resist.  Then Tin.  (I only use tin if its going to be a while to get to the soldering.)
> 
> If I was going to wet etch, then I'd make sure the resist covers the through holes completely.
> 
> Me
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote:
> >
> > Larry,
> > Glad the tin formula worked out for you, I did lots of boards with it.  Looks like you have a nice PCB processing setup.  Your hole activation and plating video for plated throuch holes was interesting.  After the copper plating, I assume you re-image the board with new dry film then etch.  How do you make sure you don't etch out the holes you just plated?  Is the dry film strong enough to tent all the holes or do you use a tin/lead process?
> > 
> > Craig
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well I tried it.
> > > Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> > > me
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Craig
> > > > > 
> > > > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > > > 
> > > > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks-
> > > > > Larry Battraw
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> I will have to give that a try after I get my Bridgeport CNC conversion finished.
> 
> A company I worked at had a captive PCB shop, they would Tin/LED plate the pattern on the board after drilling, hole activation and  CU panel plating.  I think the boards were etched in a copper cloride alkaline (ammonia) based etcher. The boards then went into a hot peanut oil bath to level the tin/lead.
> 
> Craig
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> >
> > Craig,
> > I don't wet etch.  After plating I use the CNC mill and mechanically etch the traces.  Then solder mask using the same process as the resist.  Then Tin.  (I only use tin if its going to be a while to get to the soldering.)
> > 
> > If I was going to wet etch, then I'd make sure the resist covers the through holes completely.
> > 
> > Me
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > > Glad the tin formula worked out for you, I did lots of boards with it.  Looks like you have a nice PCB processing setup.  Your hole activation and plating video for plated throuch holes was interesting.  After the copper plating, I assume you re-image the board with new dry film then etch.  How do you make sure you don't etch out the holes you just plated?  Is the dry film strong enough to tent all the holes or do you use a tin/lead process?
> > > 
> > > Craig
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well I tried it.
> > > > Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> > > > me
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Craig
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > > > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > > > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > > > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > > > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > > > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > > > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > > > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > > > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > > > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > > > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks-
> > > > > > Larry Battraw
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> I never thought of a hot oil bath.
> Do you know how hot it was?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote:
> >
> > I will have to give that a try after I get my Bridgeport CNC conversion finished.
> > 
> > A company I worked at had a captive PCB shop, they would Tin/LED plate the pattern on the board after drilling, hole activation and  CU panel plating.  I think the boards were etched in a copper cloride alkaline (ammonia) based etcher. The boards then went into a hot peanut oil bath to level the tin/lead.
> > 
> > Craig
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Craig,
> > > I don't wet etch.  After plating I use the CNC mill and mechanically etch the traces.  Then solder mask using the same process as the resist.  Then Tin.  (I only use tin if its going to be a while to get to the soldering.)
> > > 
> > > If I was going to wet etch, then I'd make sure the resist covers the through holes completely.
> > > 
> > > Me
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > > Glad the tin formula worked out for you, I did lots of boards with it.  Looks like you have a nice PCB processing setup.  Your hole activation and plating video for plated throuch holes was interesting.  After the copper plating, I assume you re-image the board with new dry film then etch.  How do you make sure you don't etch out the holes you just plated?  Is the dry film strong enough to tent all the holes or do you use a tin/lead process?
> > > > 
> > > > Craig
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I tried it.
> > > > > Worked great for me.  I made a video and will post it tomorrow afternoon.
> > > > > me
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fredbutz" <fredbutz@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm about to try the Sulfamic acid one.  I also got the chemicals on EBay.  I'll let you know.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have very good luck with elctroless tin. The formula I use came from the September 1971 issue of Ham Radio magazine.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > .5g Stannous Chloride
> > > > > > > > > > 2.0g Thiourea
> > > > > > > > > > 3.0g Sulfamic Acid
> > > > > > > > > > 100.0 mL Distilled water
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The solution is ued cold, I never tired heating it. It plates up in a few minutes and does a goog job but can't be use as a resist for further etching. The solution does not keep and I always make up a fresh batch for each board making session. I would usually mix up less than 100 mL depending on the size and number of boards I was doing.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Craig
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Has anyone else tried this?  I ordered the chemicals off eBay and
> > > > > > > tried it with sulfamic and sulfuric acid (separate times) and it does
> > > > > > > not seem to work.  I was very careful measuring, used distilled water,
> > > > > > > and cleaned the copper with sandpaper so it was completely exposed.
> > > > > > > The recipe using sulfuric came from here:
> > > > > > > http://www.finishing.com/0200-0399/260.shtml
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  The only thing I can think of is that the Stannous Chloride I have is
> > > > > > > not actually what it seems to be since it's the only thing I haven't
> > > > > > > been able to substitute something else for.  I tried a recipe for
> > > > > > > electroplating which uses Stannous Chloride and Hydrochloric Acid and
> > > > > > > also had no luck-- it turned the copper I was trying to plate black.
> > > > > > > Perhaps I have Stannic Chloride?  I have no idea how they differ.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Thanks-
> > > > > > > Larry Battraw
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>