Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-16 by cdvsmx5

Greetings. I have recently developed and released, Solder Resistant Mandrel Technology, Copper Foil Vias. Use to produce through hole, blind and buried vias at your workbench or kitchen table. It is a quick, easy, inexpensive, space saving, non-hazardous method to produce quality electrical and mechanical connections between top, interior and bottom conductive layers of multi-layer PCBs. Suitable for Hobby, R& D, Prototype and Limited Production Runs. 
More information here:
http://DiyPcbVias.com

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-16 by sailingto

Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?

Do you have a video showing how to make the vias? I would be interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type product.

Ken H.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Greetings. I have recently developed and released, Solder Resistant Mandrel Technology, Copper Foil Vias. Use to produce through hole, blind and buried vias at your workbench or kitchen table. It is a quick, easy, inexpensive, space saving, non-hazardous method to produce quality electrical and mechanical connections between top, interior and bottom conductive layers of multi-layer PCBs. Suitable for Hobby, R& D, Prototype and Limited Production Runs. 
> More information here:
> http://DiyPcbVias.com
>

[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by Brian Symons

I agree.  The web site doesn't show anything to make you want to buy 
the item.  Without some real info & not just a PR blurb spin I don't 
think too many will be interested in buying it - whether or not it is 
good value is not something that buyers will just take the seller's word 
for.

Give us some decent images or a video & don't just try to cover up what 
your product is.

Regards,
Brian.


On 17/08/2010 8:21, sailingto wrote:
>
> Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?
>
> Do you have a video showing how to make the vias? I would be 
> interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type 
> product.
>
> Ken H.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings. I have recently developed and released, Solder Resistant 
> Mandrel Technology, Copper Foil Vias. Use to produce through hole, 
> blind and buried vias at your workbench or kitchen table. It is a 
> quick, easy, inexpensive, space saving, non-hazardous method to 
> produce quality electrical and mechanical connections between top, 
> interior and bottom conductive layers of multi-layer PCBs. Suitable 
> for Hobby, R& D, Prototype and Limited Production Runs.
> > More information here:
> > http://DiyPcbVias.com
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by cdvsmx5

< "sailingto" > wrote:>
> Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?> 

There is no secret, the mandrel is tiny and is only pouched for identification. 

The mandrel is used to form and then insert a tube of thin copper foil to line the via walls.

> Do you have a video showing how to make the vias?...>

The magic happens between the thumb and index finger.  Pictures are not helpful.  The graphic instructions included permit emphasizing critical steps.

<... I would be interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type product.>  

The kits are priced to compete with the retail cost of raw materials before adaptation to this purpose. If you need 'good vias' this is a great offering. 

I don't understand your mistrust.

Charl

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by alienrelics

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:
>
> 
> < "sailingto" > wrote:>
> > Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?> 
> 
> There is no secret, the mandrel is tiny and is only pouched for identification. 
> 
> The mandrel is used to form and then insert a tube of thin copper foil to line the via walls.
>  

You won't mind unpouching it, then?

> > Do you have a video showing how to make the vias?...>
> 
> The magic happens between the thumb and index finger.  Pictures are not helpful.  The graphic instructions included permit emphasizing critical steps.
> 

May we see the graphic instructions, then?

> <... I would be interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type product.>  
> 
> The kits are priced to compete with the retail cost of raw materials before adaptation to this purpose. If you need 'good vias' this is a great offering. 
> 
> I don't understand your mistrust.

Anyone who is going to pay out money for something investigates it first. If a salesman won't let you see critical parts of a new device that claims to make something much easier, it will make any reasonable person press for more information.

The sample board, IMHO, looks very crude.

Steve Greenfield

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by Eddie Stassen

Thats a really nasty looking pcb shown as an example. Doesn't really 
make me want to run out and buy the product :)

sailingto wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?
>
> Do you have a video showing how to make the vias? I would be 
> interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type 
> product.
>
> Ken H.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings. I have recently developed and released, Solder Resistant 
> Mandrel Technology, Copper Foil Vias. Use to produce through hole, 
> blind and buried vias at your workbench or kitchen table. It is a 
> quick, easy, inexpensive, space saving, non-hazardous method to 
> produce quality electrical and mechanical connections between top, 
> interior and bottom conductive layers of multi-layer PCBs. Suitable 
> for Hobby, R& D, Prototype and Limited Production Runs.
> > More information here:
> > http://DiyPcbVias.com
> >
>
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by jamesmichaelnewton

Charl, It looks interesting, but if I paid my money, and got the items you show on the web page, I wouldn't have a clue how to use them to make a through hole. If your web page had a very clear, step by step set of directions for USE of the kit, including pictures where they would help (I understand parts of it wouldn't be visible) then I would be a lot more likely to purchase.

--
James.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> < "sailingto" > wrote:>
> > Trying to figure how it works, I expect the hidden mandrel is the secret?> 
> 
> There is no secret, the mandrel is tiny and is only pouched for identification. 
> 
> The mandrel is used to form and then insert a tube of thin copper foil to line the via walls.
>  
> > Do you have a video showing how to make the vias?...>
> 
> The magic happens between the thumb and index finger.  Pictures are not helpful.  The graphic instructions included permit emphasizing critical steps.
> 
> <... I would be interested in good vias, but not willing to buy a "pig in a poke" type product.>  
> 
> The kits are priced to compete with the retail cost of raw materials before adaptation to this purpose. If you need 'good vias' this is a great offering. 
> 
> I don't understand your mistrust.
> 
> Charl
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by cdvsmx5

Re:<brians@...>
You can take it as you say, or as the truth. I didn't expect a parade, but was unprepared for such negativity. How would deceiving you benefit me?  I'm not a marketing spinner.  Just a person with an problem that found a solution. This is my offer to share, made in good faith. Unless someone is able to reciprocate that good faith, none will benefit.

Re:<alienrelics@...>
The Mandrel gets lost. That's why I made the pouch.

I'm beginning to get the sense that everyone wants something for nothing.  You need clear instructions, materials and tools to be successful.
 
Yes, it's crude looking.  One side of the transparency shifted or stretched going through the laminator.  I make no claims other than it works and matches what will be manufactured.

Suspicion, accusations, negativity and insults.  This group sure makes a person feel welcome. Sorry, I don't have what you're looking for.

Charl

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by Erik Knise

The reason he is not giving out any of the information is because he wants
you to buy the kit.  All of those parts are easily available but you are
really paying to have access to the instructions.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:39 AM, jamesmichaelnewton <
jamesmichaelnewton@...> wrote:

> Charl, It looks interesting, but if I paid my money, and got the items you
> show on the web page, I wouldn't have a clue how to use them to make a
> through hole. If your web page had a very clear, step by step set of
> directions for USE of the kit, including pictures where they would help (I
> understand parts of it wouldn't be visible) then I would be a lot more
> likely to purchase.
>
>
-- 
Erik L. Knise
Pacific Shipping Company
Seattle, WA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-17 by Bob Macklin

Why don't you just send those interested the instructions. You won't make 
enough money off this to make it worthwhile.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:44 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


>
>
>
>
>
> Re:<brians@...>
> You can take it as you say, or as the truth. I didn't expect a parade, but 
> was unprepared for such negativity. How would deceiving you benefit me? 
> I'm not a marketing spinner.  Just a person with an problem that found a 
> solution. This is my offer to share, made in good faith. Unless someone is 
> able to reciprocate that good faith, none will benefit.
>
> Re:<alienrelics@...>
> The Mandrel gets lost. That's why I made the pouch.
>
> I'm beginning to get the sense that everyone wants something for nothing. 
> You need clear instructions, materials and tools to be successful.
>
> Yes, it's crude looking.  One side of the transparency shifted or 
> stretched going through the laminator.  I make no claims other than it 
> works and matches what will be manufactured.
>
> Suspicion, accusations, negativity and insults.  This group sure makes a 
> person feel welcome. Sorry, I don't have what you're looking for.
>
> Charl
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by sailingto

Charl, I do appreciate what you are trying to do and I (nor anyone else I'm sure) meant any dis-respect.....  Most of us like to know what we're buying before spending the money.  Put yourself in our place - "IF" you didn't have a clue what the process is, nor how it works, would you be ready to send your money to someone you didn't know?

I do wish you the best of luck - it may well be an excellent process and the solution to the via problem.

Ken H>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Andrewdavid.mathison

Dear cdvsmx5

I also looked at the web site for your product.

I also did not get a good impression of what your product does or how even, in fact what went through my mind was "I can do as good/better a job with a piece of wire cut off from a resistor or cap or similar to connect between pads at the top and bottom of the PCB"...done that for probably the last 40 years on my home made PCBs.....works great!!

If you want to sell something, your advertising (your web site in this case) MUST be made as attractive as possible to get customers interested......your advertising is NOT attractive, you should change the pictures for good ones.

Also, slightly more detail of "HOW" would have impressed me a little bit more as well....

Why not start again and make it look like its worth buying.....

Do be most thankful to the various people that bothered to mention to you why they were not "turned on" by your product. These are your REAL friends!!!

They could just as easily instead ignored it as probably many others did.....me for example till I saw you "railing" at your best friends!!  : -))

Have a great day and I wish success with your invention.....but do learn how to accept constructive critique please : -))

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by alienrelics

You need to cultivate a much thicker skin to be a salesman.

If something when wrong when scanning the example, then scan it again.

The mandrel can't get "lost" in a picture. It isn't going to fall off the website.

What do you have to gain? You are charging people money.

I'm glad you found a solution, but you didn't come here to share, you came her to sell your product. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. But don't expect us to shell out money when you have a poor sample image and won't let us see it work.

Put yourself in our place - would you buy something sight-unseen, when the only example of the result looks like that?

Getting angry and defensive just makes people more suspicious.

My guess is that the mandrel is a rod the size of a solder pad, with the end turned down to the right size to fit through the hole with copper around it. Lay a piece of the copper (probably sticky-backed) on the hole, push the mandrel through which pushes copper through. Trim the copper sheet around the mandrel with an Xacto, then on the back side fold down the copper that was pushed through. Solder both sides to the traces, then pull the mandrel out.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Re:<brians@>
> You can take it as you say, or as the truth. I didn't expect a parade, but was unprepared for such negativity. How would deceiving you benefit me?  I'm not a marketing spinner.  Just a person with an problem that found a solution. This is my offer to share, made in good faith. Unless someone is able to reciprocate that good faith, none will benefit.
> 
> Re:<alienrelics@>
> The Mandrel gets lost. That's why I made the pouch.
> 
> I'm beginning to get the sense that everyone wants something for nothing.  You need clear instructions, materials and tools to be successful.
>  
> Yes, it's crude looking.  One side of the transparency shifted or stretched going through the laminator.  I make no claims other than it works and matches what will be manufactured.
> 
> Suspicion, accusations, negativity and insults.  This group sure makes a person feel welcome. Sorry, I don't have what you're looking for.
> 
> Charl
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by cdvsmx5

Ken and all,

Fear of the unknown doesn't justify bad behavior.

When I joined the group, I was hoping to find people that had faced the same problems I did.

I had prepared articles for Wikipedia that don't meet the 'notability' requirement. These describe the physical requirements of the mandrel and the process.  An 'anti-patent' declaration, if you will. Except for Yahoo glitches, I would have posted them in the files section.  But, before that happened, I was attacked.

I was planning on offering several kits for the cost of shipping to anyone having an immediate need, proven writing skill and willingness to post a report of their experience. I no longer see this as beneficial.

The 'discussion' here was almost totally deconstructive. You may all be fine persons apart from this group.  If so, this is a toxic environment and you should reflect on what this has done to you.

Putting someone or something down doesn't make a better person, but it usually is revealing.  I'm sure there are good people here, wading through the crap to benefit from whatever good exchange of information can be found.  Perhaps some find this entertaining.

I have other things to do.  If anyone needs to contact me, please use the Inquiry link on the web page.

Charl

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Charl, I do appreciate what you are trying to do and I (nor anyone else I'm sure) meant any dis-respect.....  Most of us like to know what we're buying before spending the money.  Put yourself in our place - "IF" you didn't have a clue what the process is, nor how it works, would you be ready to send your money to someone you didn't know?
> 
> I do wish you the best of luck - it may well be an excellent process and the solution to the via problem.
> 
> Ken H>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Jim Tonne

> Dear cdvsmx5
> 
> I also looked at the web site for your product.
ETC

I suppose the page is a first attempt to publicize
the idea/product.   But it really does need to be
polished quite a bit.

The product has enormous from folks like Andy
(in other words, use a piece of wire) and so it
must offer some serious advantages or it won't
fly very well.

And yes, there have been a lot of negative
comments but if one reads them carefully they
are all, every one of them, constructive and to 
the point.

- Jim W4ENE

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a through via is needed on a component lead.

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, alienrelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: alienrelics <alienrelics@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 1:47 PM

      You need to cultivate a much thicker skin to be a salesman.

If something when wrong when scanning the example, then scan it again.

The mandrel can't get "lost" in a picture. It isn't going to fall off the website.

What do you have to gain? You are charging people money.

I'm glad you found a solution, but you didn't come here to share, you came her to sell your product. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. But don't expect us to shell out money when you have a poor sample image and won't let us see it work.

Put yourself in our place - would you buy something sight-unseen, when the only example of the result looks like that?

Getting angry and defensive just makes people more suspicious.

My guess is that the mandrel is a rod the size of a solder pad, with the end turned down to the right size to fit through the hole with copper around it. Lay a piece of the copper (probably sticky-backed) on the hole, push the mandrel through which pushes copper through. Trim the copper sheet around the mandrel with an Xacto, then on the back side fold down the copper that was pushed through. Solder both sides to the traces, then pull the mandrel out.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "cdvsmx5" <inquiry@...> wrote:

> Re:<brians@>

> You can take it as you say, or as the truth. I didn't expect a parade, but was unprepared for such negativity. How would deceiving you benefit me?  I'm not a marketing spinner.  Just a person with an problem that found a solution. This is my offer to share, made in good faith. Unless someone is able to reciprocate that good faith, none will benefit.

> 

> Re:<alienrelics@>

> The Mandrel gets lost. That's why I made the pouch.

> 

> I'm beginning to get the sense that everyone wants something for nothing.  You need clear instructions, materials and tools to be successful.

>  

> Yes, it's crude looking.  One side of the transparency shifted or stretched going through the laminator.  I make no claims other than it works and matches what will be manufactured.

> 

> Suspicion, accusations, negativity and insults.  This group sure makes a person feel welcome. Sorry, I don't have what you're looking for.

> 

> Charl

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Leon Heller

On 18/08/2010 15:00, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
> I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a through via is needed on a component lead.


Multicore used to sell little inserts that were pressed into the holes, 
flared with a special tool, and then soldered on both sides. They are 
probably still available.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Bob Macklin

What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering on 
both sides?

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Leon Heller" <leon355@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


> On 18/08/2010 15:00, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
>> I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick 
>> and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to 
>> get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a 
>> through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of 
>> copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I 
>> now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a 
>> through via is needed on a component lead.
>
>
> Multicore used to sell little inserts that were pressed into the holes,
> flared with a special tool, and then soldered on both sides. They are
> probably still available.
>
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

If you have a socket on the board you can't get at the top pad to solder it!

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 4:23 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering on 

both sides?



Bob Macklin

K5MYJ

Seattle, Wa.

"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Leon Heller" <leon355@...>

To: <Homebrew_PCBs@...m>

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL



> On 18/08/2010 15:00, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:

>> I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick 

>> and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to 

>> get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a 

>> through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of 

>> copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I 

>> now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a 

>> through via is needed on a component lead.

>

>

> Multicore used to sell little inserts that were pressed into the holes,

> flared with a special tool, and then soldered on both sides. They are

> probably still available.

>

> Leon

> -- 

> Leon Heller

> G1HSM

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 

> Photos:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

> 





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Alessio Sangalli

On 08/18/2010 08:23 AM, Bob Macklin wrote:
> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering on
> both sides?

It is very easy for that wire to "come out" while you are soldering 
it... the hole must be made small enough so there is some mechanical 
resistance for the wire to move, according to my experience.

bye!
as

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Bob Macklin

Don't put socket pads on the top side of boards. That's a really dumb thing 
to do!

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Malcolm Parker-Lisberg" <mparkerlisberg@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


If you have a socket on the board you can't get at the top pad to solder it!

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...> wrote:

From: Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 4:23 PM

















      What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and 
soldering on

both sides?



Bob Macklin

K5MYJ

Seattle, Wa.

"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Leon Heller" <leon355@...>

To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL



> On 18/08/2010 15:00, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:

>> I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick

>> and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to

>> get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a

>> through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of

>> copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I

>> now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a

>> through via is needed on a component lead.

>

>

> Multicore used to sell little inserts that were pressed into the holes,

> flared with a special tool, and then soldered on both sides. They are

> probably still available.

>

> Leon

> -- 

> Leon Heller

> G1HSM

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and

> Photos:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Bob Macklin

I use 30ga wire wrap wire. I bend it over on both side. They don't fall out.

There are easy ways to me HB PCBs and there are HARD ways to me HB PCBs!

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Alessio Sangalli" <alesan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


> On 08/18/2010 08:23 AM, Bob Macklin wrote:
>> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering 
>> on
>> both sides?
>
> It is very easy for that wire to "come out" while you are soldering
> it... the hole must be made small enough so there is some mechanical
> resistance for the wire to move, according to my experience.
>
> bye!
> as
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by lists

In article <251496.76847.qm@...>,
   Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
> If you have a socket on the board you can't get at the top pad to solder
> it!

Yes you can!

You use the wire wrap type with the long pins and space them off the board
sufficient to get a fine soldering iron tip in.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

I think you have misunderstood what we are discussing, if you are doing a double sided board and a track is required to be connected under the device then you will need a pad. What would you connect the track to? If you have room you could add a via adjacent to the device pad but if not then you need a pad!

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...m>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 5:35 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      Don't put socket pads on the top side of boards. That's a really dumb thing 

to do!



Bob Macklin

K5MYJ

Seattle, Wa.

"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"



----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Malcolm Parker-Lisberg" <mparkerlisberg@...>

To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL



If you have a socket on the board you can't get at the top pad to solder it!



I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!



--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@msn.com> wrote:



From: Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...>

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 4:23 PM



What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and 

soldering on



both sides?



Bob Macklin



K5MYJ



Seattle, Wa.



"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"



----- Original Message ----- 



From: "Leon Heller" <leon355@...>



To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>



Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:02 AM



Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL



> On 18/08/2010 15:00, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:



>> I tried that method back in the 1980s using a product called Circuitstick



>> and it is not worth the bother, much too fiddly and slow, difficult to



>> get a good solder joint between via copper and pad. It does give you a



>> through hole though. I found it much simpler to solder a thin strand of



>> copper to the top pad insert the device and solder both on the bottom. I



>> now just double up and provide an adjacent set of via pads where a



>> through via is needed on a component lead.



>



>



> Multicore used to sell little inserts that were pressed into the holes,



> flared with a special tool, and then soldered on both sides. They are



> probably still available.



>



> Leon



> -- 



> Leon Heller



> G1HSM



>



>



> ------------------------------------



>



> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and



> Photos:



> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links



>



>



>



>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

Only if you have the headroom to accomodate the extra height!



I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: lists <Stuartlists@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 6:33 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      In article <251496.76847.qm@web112503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,

   Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:

> If you have a socket on the board you can't get at the top pad to solder

> it!



Yes you can!



You use the wire wrap type with the long pins and space them off the board

sufficient to get a fine soldering iron tip in.



-- 

Stuart Winsor





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by lists

In article <361301.66144.qm@...>,
   Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
> Only if you have the headroom to accomodate the extra height

I usually find that things like electrolytic decoupling capacitors and
connectors set the height anyway, not that it's usually an issue for stuff
I do.

The alternative which I use is an extra 0.6mm hole somewhere close, and a
piece of 0.6mm wire soldered in before the socket is added.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Leon Heller

On 18/08/2010 16:23, Bob Macklin wrote:
> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering on
> both sides?

Not suitable for professional boards.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-18 by Bob Macklin

HB PCBs are not suitable for "PROFESSIONAL" boards!

The general purpose of HB PCBs is prototype testing. Or low volume hobby 
stuff.

Doing "PROFESSIONAL" boards is a very complex process.

I did PC layout as a part of my job from 1960 until 1998.

I don't use FREE PCB development tools. I use ORCAD for Windows.

I have done PCBs with as many as 12 layers. But not with hobby level tools!

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Leon Heller" <leon355@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


> On 18/08/2010 16:23, Bob Macklin wrote:
>> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering 
>> on
>> both sides?
>
> Not suitable for professional boards.
>
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Tony Smith

> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering
> on
> both sides?


Falls out when soldering, not really a thru via unless it's thin, and soldering both sides makes it more likely to crack, apparently.

I still do it though.  For a thru via I just solder both sides of the component lead.

For heaps of wires the 'sewing' method works ok, you run a wire thru all the holes, solder then snip.

Tony

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Bob Macklin

Does anyone here know how real plated hole vias are made? I DO! And I would 
not try it at home.

That's why I use wires at home. I use a piece of wire wrap wire folded over 
and soldered to the board. I wire all the vias before assembling the boards.

That seems a lot easier than some of the other things I am hearing here.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


>> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering
>> on
>> both sides?
>
>
> Falls out when soldering, not really a thru via unless it's thin, and 
> soldering both sides makes it more likely to crack, apparently.
>
> I still do it though.  For a thru via I just solder both sides of the 
> component lead.
>
> For heaps of wires the 'sewing' method works ok, you run a wire thru all 
> the holes, solder then snip.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by fredbutz

I do it all the time.

http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating

I don't think its hard at all. 

Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.

Chuck

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Does anyone here know how real plated hole vias are made? I DO! And I would 
> not try it at home.
> 
> That's why I use wires at home. I use a piece of wire wrap wire folded over 
> and soldered to the board. I wire all the vias before assembling the boards.
> 
> That seems a lot easier than some of the other things I am hearing here.
> 
> Bob Macklin
> K5MYJ
> Seattle, Wa.
> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:00 AM
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
> 
> 
> >> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering
> >> on
> >> both sides?
> >
> >
> > Falls out when soldering, not really a thru via unless it's thin, and 
> > soldering both sides makes it more likely to crack, apparently.
> >
> > I still do it though.  For a thru via I just solder both sides of the 
> > component lead.
> >
> > For heaps of wires the 'sewing' method works ok, you run a wire thru all 
> > the holes, solder then snip.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> > Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Bob Macklin

Interesting but expensive for doing just a few boards. Also I really don't 
like working with battery acid.

It would take me longer to do this for 5 or 10 boards than it will to insert 
wires.

But thanks for the information.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:35 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


>I do it all the time.
>
> http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating
>
> I don't think its hard at all.
>
> Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.
>
> Chuck
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@...> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone here know how real plated hole vias are made? I DO! And I 
>> would
>> not try it at home.
>>
>> That's why I use wires at home. I use a piece of wire wrap wire folded 
>> over
>> and soldered to the board. I wire all the vias before assembling the 
>> boards.
>>
>> That seems a lot easier than some of the other things I am hearing here.
>>
>> Bob Macklin
>> K5MYJ
>> Seattle, Wa.
>> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>
>> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:00 AM
>> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
>>
>>
>> >> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and 
>> >> soldering
>> >> on
>> >> both sides?
>> >
>> >
>> > Falls out when soldering, not really a thru via unless it's thin, and
>> > soldering both sides makes it more likely to crack, apparently.
>> >
>> > I still do it though.  For a thru via I just solder both sides of the
>> > component lead.
>> >
>> > For heaps of wires the 'sewing' method works ok, you run a wire thru 
>> > all
>> > the holes, solder then snip.
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> > Photos:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by fredbutz

I like it not just for the connection between layers.

I love the way the solder is wicked into the hole when soldering a thourgh hole plated board.  I hate the way the solder tends to just bubble on top of the layer when soldering without through plating.

The acid is so diluted it doesn't burn or bubble or anything.

I have it down where it takes a few minutes to apply the ink.  The wait whil it oven cures I work on something else.  The plating takes 12 minutes.

But to each his own.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Interesting but expensive for doing just a few boards. Also I really don't 
> like working with battery acid.
> 
> It would take me longer to do this for 5 or 10 boards than it will to insert 
> wires.
> 
> But thanks for the information.
> 
> Bob Macklin
> K5MYJ
> Seattle, Wa.
> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:35 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
> 
> 
> >I do it all the time.
> >
> > http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating
> >
> > I don't think its hard at all.
> >
> > Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@> 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone here know how real plated hole vias are made? I DO! And I 
> >> would
> >> not try it at home.
> >>
> >> That's why I use wires at home. I use a piece of wire wrap wire folded 
> >> over
> >> and soldered to the board. I wire all the vias before assembling the 
> >> boards.
> >>
> >> That seems a lot easier than some of the other things I am hearing here.
> >>
> >> Bob Macklin
> >> K5MYJ
> >> Seattle, Wa.
> >> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@>
> >> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:00 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
> >>
> >>
> >> >> What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and 
> >> >> soldering
> >> >> on
> >> >> both sides?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Falls out when soldering, not really a thru via unless it's thin, and
> >> > soldering both sides makes it more likely to crack, apparently.
> >> >
> >> > I still do it though.  For a thru via I just solder both sides of the
> >> > component lead.
> >> >
> >> > For heaps of wires the 'sewing' method works ok, you run a wire thru 
> >> > all
> >> > the holes, solder then snip.
> >> >
> >> > Tony
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> >> > Photos:
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> > Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Erik Knise

This is actually a great link.  Thank you Chuck.

I have only made one board so far and I've been discouraged because I've
needed to put vias under some surface mount parts (microcontrollers) but the
wire method doesn't always work well for that.  Those kits must last a long
time but I'd be needing to do a lot of boards to make it worth while.  Any
idea on the shelf life of that stuff in a sealed container?

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:42 PM, fredbutz <fredbutz@...> wrote:

> I like it not just for the connection between layers.
>
> I love the way the solder is wicked into the hole when soldering a thourgh
> hole plated board.  I hate the way the solder tends to just bubble on top of
> the layer when soldering without through plating.
>
> The acid is so diluted it doesn't burn or bubble or anything.
>
> I have it down where it takes a few minutes to apply the ink.  The wait
> whil it oven cures I work on something else.  The plating takes 12 minutes.
>
> But to each his own.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting but expensive for doing just a few boards. Also I really
> don't
> > like working with battery acid.
> >
> > It would take me longer to do this for 5 or 10 boards than it will to
> insert
> > wires.
> >
> > But thanks for the information.
> >
> > Bob Macklin
> > K5MYJ
> > Seattle, Wa.
> > "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:35 AM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
> >
> >
> > >I do it all the time.
> > >
> > > http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating
> > >
> > > I don't think its hard at all.
> > >
> > > Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
>

-- 
Erik L. Knise
Pacific Shipping Company
Seattle, WA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Bob Macklin

If you are socketing your microcontrollers you can use the better sockets 
that have machined pins. These can be soldered on the top side of the board. 
Wires can be put in the vias before the sockets are installed.

I find putting vias under SOIC chips not a good idea on HB PCBs.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Erik Knise" <elknise@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


> This is actually a great link.  Thank you Chuck.
>
> I have only made one board so far and I've been discouraged because I've
> needed to put vias under some surface mount parts (microcontrollers) but 
> the
> wire method doesn't always work well for that.  Those kits must last a 
> long
> time but I'd be needing to do a lot of boards to make it worth while.  Any
> idea on the shelf life of that stuff in a sealed container?
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:42 PM, fredbutz <fredbutz@...> wrote:
>
>> I like it not just for the connection between layers.
>>
>> I love the way the solder is wicked into the hole when soldering a 
>> thourgh
>> hole plated board.  I hate the way the solder tends to just bubble on top 
>> of
>> the layer when soldering without through plating.
>>
>> The acid is so diluted it doesn't burn or bubble or anything.
>>
>> I have it down where it takes a few minutes to apply the ink.  The wait
>> whil it oven cures I work on something else.  The plating takes 12 
>> minutes.
>>
>> But to each his own.
>>
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Interesting but expensive for doing just a few boards. Also I really
>> don't
>> > like working with battery acid.
>> >
>> > It would take me longer to do this for 5 or 10 boards than it will to
>> insert
>> > wires.
>> >
>> > But thanks for the information.
>> >
>> > Bob Macklin
>> > K5MYJ
>> > Seattle, Wa.
>> > "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@...>
>> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:35 AM
>> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
>> >
>> >
>> > >I do it all the time.
>> > >
>> > > http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating
>> > >
>> > > I don't think its hard at all.
>> > >
>> > > Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.
>> > >
>> > > Chuck
>> > >
>>
>
> -- 
> Erik L. Knise
> Pacific Shipping Company
> Seattle, WA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Erik Knise

I've never put a surface mount micro in a socket because they are usually
QFPs  I've never tried to put a home brew via under one of those chips but
for a few instances it would make it a lot easier.

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...> wrote:

> If you are socketing your microcontrollers you can use the better sockets
> that have machined pins. These can be soldered on the top side of the
> board.
> Wires can be put in the vias before the sockets are installed.
>
> I find putting vias under SOIC chips not a good idea on HB PCBs.
>
> Bob Macklin
> K5MYJ
> Seattle, Wa.
> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erik Knise" <elknise@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
>
>
> > This is actually a great link.  Thank you Chuck.
> >
> > I have only made one board so far and I've been discouraged because I've
> > needed to put vias under some surface mount parts (microcontrollers) but
> > the
> > wire method doesn't always work well for that.  Those kits must last a
> > long
> > time but I'd be needing to do a lot of boards to make it worth while.
>  Any
> > idea on the shelf life of that stuff in a sealed container?
>

-- 
Erik L. Knise
Pacific Shipping Company
Seattle, WA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by fredbutz

The conductive ink?
I purchased the 50 gram bottle from Think and Tinker in the summer of 2009.  I hadn't gone bad or anything so far.  I've done maybe 20 4x6 boards since then.  I feel like I can easily go another year.

Stay in touch I'll let you know.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Erik Knise <elknise@...> wrote:

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>
> This is actually a great link.  Thank you Chuck.
> 
> I have only made one board so far and I've been discouraged because I've
> needed to put vias under some surface mount parts (microcontrollers) but the
> wire method doesn't always work well for that.  Those kits must last a long
> time but I'd be needing to do a lot of boards to make it worth while.  Any
> idea on the shelf life of that stuff in a sealed container?
> 
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:42 PM, fredbutz <fredbutz@...> wrote:
> 
> > I like it not just for the connection between layers.
> >
> > I love the way the solder is wicked into the hole when soldering a thourgh
> > hole plated board.  I hate the way the solder tends to just bubble on top of
> > the layer when soldering without through plating.
> >
> > The acid is so diluted it doesn't burn or bubble or anything.
> >
> > I have it down where it takes a few minutes to apply the ink.  The wait
> > whil it oven cures I work on something else.  The plating takes 12 minutes.
> >
> > But to each his own.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting but expensive for doing just a few boards. Also I really
> > don't
> > > like working with battery acid.
> > >
> > > It would take me longer to do this for 5 or 10 boards than it will to
> > insert
> > > wires.
> > >
> > > But thanks for the information.
> > >
> > > Bob Macklin
> > > K5MYJ
> > > Seattle, Wa.
> > > "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "fredbutz" <fredbutz@>
> > > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:35 AM
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
> > >
> > >
> > > >I do it all the time.
> > > >
> > > > http://voodooengineering.com/index.php/pcbprocess/plating
> > > >
> > > > I don't think its hard at all.
> > > >
> > > > Follow Think and Tinker's steps using Caswell Plating's solution.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > > >
> >
> 
> -- 
> Erik L. Knise
> Pacific Shipping Company
> Seattle, WA
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-19 by Bob Macklin

I did not mean to put a surface mount uP in a socket. I use PIC uPs in DIP 
packages when possible. These are the ones I socket.

I don't mind using DIPs if the if the project has the space. They are much 
easier to work with. And the pins for the chip or socket are natural vias.

I have not tried soldering a chip with 25mil pin spacing yet. But that is 
coming soon.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Erik Knise" <elknise@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL


> I've never put a surface mount micro in a socket because they are usually
> QFPs  I've never tried to put a home brew via under one of those chips but
> for a few instances it would make it a lot easier.
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...> wrote:
>
>> If you are socketing your microcontrollers you can use the better sockets
>> that have machined pins. These can be soldered on the top side of the
>> board.
>> Wires can be put in the vias before the sockets are installed.
>>
>> I find putting vias under SOIC chips not a good idea on HB PCBs.
>>
>> Bob Macklin
>> K5MYJ
>> Seattle, Wa.
>> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Erik Knise" <elknise@...>
>> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL
>>
>>
>> > This is actually a great link.  Thank you Chuck.
>> >
>> > I have only made one board so far and I've been discouraged because 
>> > I've
>> > needed to put vias under some surface mount parts (microcontrollers) 
>> > but
>> > the
>> > wire method doesn't always work well for that.  Those kits must last a
>> > long
>> > time but I'd be needing to do a lot of boards to make it worth while.
>>  Any
>> > idea on the shelf life of that stuff in a sealed container?
>>
>
> -- 
> Erik L. Knise
> Pacific Shipping Company
> Seattle, WA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-20 by James

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:
>
> On 18/08/2010 16:23, Bob Macklin wrote:
> > What's wrong with simply sticking a wire through the hole and soldering on
> > both sides?
> 
> Not suitable for professional boards.
> 
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>

What I've been doing is drilling a hole exactly the right size for a piece of #22 wire. I poke that through, clip it off as close as I can to the board and then crimp it. The copper flattens right up to the PCB and it makes a very tidy via. I originally came up with the idea in order to use thermal pad SSOP IC's but I've been using it for other boards too.

For professional boards, I send the layout to a professional and get the boards made, this is about DIY.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-20 by Alessio Sangalli

On 08/19/2010 05:44 PM, James wrote:

> What I've been doing is drilling a hole exactly the right size for a
> piece of #22 wire. I poke that through, clip it off as close as I can
> to the board and then crimp it. The copper flattens right up to the
> PCB and it makes a very tidy via. I originally came up with the idea
> in order to use thermal pad SSOP IC's but I've been using it for
> other boards too.


Can you explain "crimp it"? With what tool? Do you have a picture?

bye
as

Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-20 by sailingto

I expect he means the same as I've done - sorta "brad" the ends of the wire to make the wire very tight  in the hole so it won't fall out while soldering or during rework.  Much like the tiny rivets used for vias.  Those do work good.

Ken

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> 
> Can you explain "crimp it"? With what tool? Do you have a picture?
> 
> bye
> as
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper Foil Vias, Correct URL

2010-08-21 by Tony Smith

> > What I've been doing is drilling a hole exactly the right size for a
> > piece of #22 wire. I poke that through, clip it off as close as I can
> > to the board and then crimp it. The copper flattens right up to the
> > PCB and it makes a very tidy via. I originally came up with the idea
> > in order to use thermal pad SSOP IC's but I've been using it for
> > other boards too.
> 
> 
> Can you explain "crimp it"? With what tool? Do you have a picture?


If you snip wire you'll notice the end will flare out slightly.  If you take
some pliers and squash the end of the wire, you can spread it out enough so
it won't fall thru the PCB hole.

If you're very enthusiastic you can make little copper rivets like this.
What you do is drill a short hole (a few mm) the same diameter as the wire
in a block of metal.  Drop a small piece of wire in there so a little bit,
say a mm, is poking up.  Now hit it with a hammer, it'll flatten out.  Poke
the rivet thru the PCB, solder, turn it over and hit the other side, then
solder again.

Jewellers have special 'doming' tools for do this.  They call riveting 'cold
connections', meaning joining without soldering.

Tony