Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@a... wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/05 9:15:42 AM, uzo@b... writes:
> > If the product is not ready, don't release it!!
> > 
> You expect bad service in a cheap restaurant but if you go to the 
fanciest 
> place in town, you expect some politeness. If the food were served 
burned, you 
> might expect an apology and an offer of a replacement. 
> 
> Apple is positioning themselves and Logic as the fancy place, but 
then give 
> service like the cheap place. How many months has Logic 7 been out? 
and not a 
> single update, a single apology, a single acknowledgement, a single 
date on 
> when an upgrade will be coming. 
> 
> When I took my ibook to the apple genius last week and he saw all 
of the 
> crash logs, he didn't seem surprised nor did he have a single word 
of advice.
> 
> Meanwhile I hit some key by accident and saw a cute animation of 
all of the 
> windows slowly minimizing. I'm glad apple is putting their 
resources into such 
> valuable software tricks.

I mostly read about the elaborate goings on with other users on this 
forum and others. I use Logic for midi and have'nt had lots of 
problems, but if I needed it for audio as well, I'm sure I'd be 
pulling out my hair most of the time. Seems like such a nice program 
would be 99% flawless, while always considering the fact that it 
needs a good system to run it. And it also seems like the writers 
would be daring enough to state, in fact, the minimum system 
necessary to run the program for the purpose intended. That's the 
main reason I stayed with midi only to outboard instruments and 
bought stand alone recording equipment.
Gary

On 13 Jan 2005, at 23:09, GAmoore@... wrote:

>  Meanwhile I hit some key by accident and saw a cute animation of all 
> of the windows slowly minimizing. I'm glad apple is putting their 
> resources into such valuable software tricks.

It boggles my mind all this stuff. What are the prices for logic 
again!?;

1. upgrade from 6 -7 : £199
2. cross-grade from another sequencer/platform to L7 : whatever it is
3. full software purchase: £500+

Plugins amy or may not work irrespective of what the validator says, 
which we're not even sure if that is buggy. after a while you learn not 
to be too creative and multi-task. you know, change the reverb on one 
track while the song is playing cause you'll have to reboot, if you're 
lucky... and on and on. this is all a joke.

And then the coup de tart. you have to pay £199 for technical help for 
software that had not been properly tested before it left apple R&D!

hehehehehehe

I actually want to hear from anyone who was insane enough to do that!

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "gswerner2002" <gswerner2002@y...> wrote:
> I mostly read about the elaborate goings on with other users on this 
> forum and others. I use Logic for midi and have'nt had lots of 
> problems, but if I needed it for audio as well, I'm sure I'd be 
> pulling out my hair most of the time. Seems like such a nice program 
> would be 99% flawless, while always considering the fact that it 
> needs a good system to run it. And it also seems like the writers 
> would be daring enough to state, in fact, the minimum system 
> necessary to run the program for the purpose intended. That's the 
> main reason I stayed with midi only to outboard instruments and 
> bought stand alone recording equipment.
> Gary

Hi Gary,

That's the same MO I'm using and haven't had the first crash.  I do want to try some audio 
recording so we'll see!

Charlie

On 1/13/05 6:09 PM, "GAmoore@..." <GAmoore@...> wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/13/05 9:15:42 AM, uzo@... writes:
> If the product is not ready, don't release it!!
> 
> You expect bad service in a cheap restaurant but if you go to the fanciest
> place in town, you expect some politeness. If the food were served burned, you
> might expect an apology and an offer of a replacement.
> 
> Apple is positioning themselves and Logic as the fancy place, but then give
> service like the cheap place. How many months has Logic 7 been out? and not a
> single update, a single apology, a single acknowledgement, a single date on
> when an upgrade will be coming.


Logic is working wonderfully on my Powermac.

Maybe you can post details of your systems and the conditions under which
your machine is crashing. Maybe the group can make some helpful suggestions.

Eddie
IMS

As I've mentioned before on this list, I use Logic as a hobbyist. So as you
might suspect, there is a lot I don't know about Logic. There is also a lot
I don't know about the Audio aspects of sequencers because, up to this
point, all of my music has been done with midi instruments. The only audio
I've recorded was vocals.

So... Here is my question. It is impossible to simulate (at least for me)
guitar strumming using my keyboard. Is this were Audio loops come in handy?
Do you search through a library of guitar samples looking for one that is
strummed the way you want it to be. If not, does anyone have suggestions for
creating realistic strumming on a MIDI instrument?

Kamm

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@s...> wrote:
> As I've mentioned before on this list, I use Logic as a hobbyist. So
as you
> might suspect, there is a lot I don't know about Logic. There is
also a lot
> I don't know about the Audio aspects of sequencers because, up to this
> point, all of my music has been done with midi instruments. The only
audio
> I've recorded was vocals.
> 
> So... Here is my question. It is impossible to simulate (at least
for me)
> guitar strumming using my keyboard. Is this were Audio loops come in
handy?

It's not easy, I find that it's not so much the strum that's difficult
as simulating the damping of the strings which just doesn't work on a
keyboard.

And almost impossible to find strummed guitar loops that fit your
song, although with loops that stretch as with Apple Loops or Acid the
job becomes easier.

So I learnt the guitar, even if I'm not very good, I can create a part
these days thanks to digital recording and the ability to build a part
up bar by bar if necessary and edit a lot.

However, check this out:

http://www.bornemark.se/vg/index.htm

I don't think there is an AU version though.
-- 
Pete Thomas
www.petethomas.co.uk
- Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments

> It's not easy, I find that it's not so much the strum that's 
> difficult as simulating the damping of the strings which just 
> doesn't work on a keyboard.
> 
> And almost impossible to find strummed guitar loops that fit 
> your song, although with loops that stretch as with Apple 
> Loops or Acid the job becomes easier.

Not what I was hoping for, but what I was expecting. :(

> So I learnt the guitar, even if I'm not very good, I can 
> create a part these days thanks to digital recording and the 
> ability to build a part up bar by bar if necessary and edit a lot.
> 
> However, check this out:
> 
> http://www.bornemark.se/vg/index.htm
> 
> I don't think there is an AU version though.

Thanks Pete. I'll take a look.

Kamm

> Midi works well for a big strum, arpegios, repeating riffs, and even leads
(although
> those take some careful programming).
>
> Fast strumming (like Mrs. Robinson or Pinball Wizzard) is pretty much out
of the
> question for midi simulations.

I have used a Charlie Labs' Digitar for several years.  I believe the
company is no longer in existence, but you can see a picture of the unit
here:

http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/_inc/picview.cfm?synthid=1036

Basically, it's a set of six thin metal bars that trigger the MIDI signals
against a chord.  It is an amazing piece of gear, and I recently bought two
more second-hand because I am afraid of it breaking.  I play the guitar
passably well, but this allows me to do guitar strumming and picking with
any MIDI-controllable voice.

I have investigated MIDI pickups for my guitar but haven't found what I like
yet.

Kent

Pete Thomas wrote:
> 
> So I learnt the guitar, even if I'm not very good, I can create a part
> these days thanks to digital recording and the ability to build a part
> up bar by bar if necessary and edit a lot.

LOL! Yeah, been there done that too!

You must be a better guitarist than I am, Pete, cos i've sometimes had 
to do it strum by strum. AND using a capo! :-)

Kamm Schreiner wrote:
> 
> It is impossible to simulate (at least for me) guitar
> strumming using my keyboard. Is this were Audio loops come in handy?
> Do you search through a library of guitar samples looking for one that is
> strummed the way you want it to be. If not, does anyone have suggestions for
> creating realistic strumming on a MIDI instrument?

That's a question a lot of us have asked ourselves, I reckon!

I think that even though doing it in audio is potentially the most 
realistic way, you'd need a huge number of variations - not just one for 
each chord, but also for each version of the chord in terms of which 
strings are included or omitted, and also for how long each strum takes.

I've never been able to figure out a way to do it in MIDI in realtime, 
but (as embarrassing as it is to admit) I was once masochistic enough to 
spend about 2 hours in the score editor and event list creating a 
whopping one bar of what sounded like fairly realistic guitar strumming. 
That was the beginning of my own little library of guitar strums. Copy 
and paste, and transposing notes are all wonderful things! :-)

It's still very time-consuming, though, but the results can be good 
enough to sit in a mix. This, for example, was done with a JV-1010 for a 
client: http://www.billcanty.com/audio/guitar.mp3

Kent Kingery wrote:

> I have used a Charlie Labs' Digitar for several years.

Wow - I remember that thing when it was first reviewed in Keyboard. I've 
always been curious about it but have never really had the $ to blow on 
satisfying that curiosity.

So, what's it like? Got any audio examples of what can be done with it? :-)

By the way ... they are cheaper at Sam Ash and Midi Classics   .... $29
 
http://www.midi-classics.com/s/sK2903.htm

There's some pretty good strums in Band in a Box in certain styles.  I believe Sinatra style 
is one.

I've also found that there is nothing quite like hiring (god forbid.....) a real guitar player..... 
<g>  We have a bunch of them in our little town and sometimes this is the cheapest, time 
wise, etc. They love to work in the studio so give it a try sometime.  FWIW

Charlie

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@a... wrote:

> By the way ... they are cheaper at Sam Ash and Midi Classics   .... $29
>  
> http://www.midi-classics.com/s/sK2903.htm

GAmoore@... writes:

> Here is a sample MIDI file of a guitar part you can download :
> http://www.keyfax.com/keyfax/downloads.htm

Note that this is a finger-picking example, not a strum as has been
discussed.

Kent

On 15/01/2005, at 5:47 PM, Bill Canty wrote:

>
> Kamm Schreiner wrote:
>>
>> It is impossible to simulate (at least for me) guitar
>> strumming using my keyboard. Is this were Audio loops come in handy?
>> Do you search through a library of guitar samples looking for one 
>> that is
>> strummed the way you want it to be. If not, does anyone have 
>> suggestions for
>> creating realistic strumming on a MIDI instrument?

For years now I have had as part of my autoload, a strummer environment 
setup which allows you to play with one finger  and what comes out 
depending on which note you hit - all the open major and minor guitar 
chords in up stroke & down stroke. It utilises a combination of chord 
memorisers and arpegiators and it works very well. You can control the 
speed of the strums by varying the arpegiator.

I'll bet it would be up at Len Sasso's site - www.swiftkick.com.

Do a search for "strummer".

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com

Hi Bill,

First... Sorry for the delayed response. I've been out of town visiting my
father who just had surgery. The surgery went great and he is already pretty
much back to his normal activities.

Your MP3 sample was pretty impressive and I've spent more than a couple of
hours on my attempts and they pale terribly in comparison. However, I'm
almost totally ignorant about guitars, so I suppose that's to be expected. I
am learning a few things just from this thread though. I've learned that I
need to consider string muting and where the last note lands with respect to
the beat. I also know that sometimes there are notes that are subdued, but
present that add to the sound like lifting a finger to play a string open.
Lifting that finger prior to actually playing the next chord is by itself an
audible and desirable part of the strumming. (At least for some of the very
little bit of strumming I've tried on a cheap classical guitar. Also, like
you say, there is more than one way to play a chord.

Maybe I'll make another go at it.

Kamm

> I have used a Charlie Labs' Digitar for several years.  I 
> believe the company is no longer in existence, but you can 
> see a picture of the unit
> here:
> 
> http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/_inc/picview.cfm?synthid=1036

Now that seems pretty damn interesting. I assume it works fine with Logic???
How is it hooked up to your gear? Can someone how can't play guitar (like
me) use it effectively?

Kamm

> In addition to muting strings, you can pick the strings in 
> different ways (turning the pick), and different places on 
> the string (close to the bridge or the neck), plus there 
> might be some string resonances (I was reading about this 
> being a factor for piano samples so I think it applies to 
> guitars even more).

Okay, I was depressed enough without knowing that. (Just kidding.) Hmmm.
That really does complicate things doesn't it? Somehow I don't think
computers are going to be replacing live musicians anytime soon. ;)

Kamm