Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

great thoughts Greg.

I just got the upgrade from FedEx.  So I'll be posting soon as to my 
success.  I too am on an upgraded G4 - still holding off on the G5 
until it gets a bit more stable.  those posts about bad RAM really 
sound horrible.  As the Apple RAM is soooo expensive, I'll have to wait 
and see.

cheers
andrew ingkavet
300 Monks -Visionary Music for picture
http://www.300monks.com

On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 11:51  AM, GAmoore@aol.com wrote:

> responding to several posts together ..
>
> OS X Requirements :
> Mac OS X is a memory and processor hog. You can see this somewhat 
> definitely by reading the computing requirements on some soft synth 
> boxes - like Moog Modular or NI's Vokator - where they seem to have 
> computed that you need 50% more CPU speed for OS X than OS 9.
>
> Bus Speed and Upgrade Boards :
> I think you get the upgrade I have (from 400 mhz to 1.2 gig) for $300 
> now (I think I got it at www.provantage.com but you can try 
> www.priceshopper.com or other price searchs). I want to get a G5 at 
> some point myself. My G4's bus speed is 100 mhz while the medium level 
> G5 is ten times that, plus the dual processors, the better processors, 
> the higher speeds, perhaps better stability and compatibility with 
> Logic (I have come to doubt all marketing claims and often find them 
> exagerated). I'm just thinking before I spend $2000, that I would 
> prefer to wait for Apple to up the speeds - which they do periodically 
> without warning.
>
> LUG list, Moderation, & Apple :
> There seems to be some sort of close relationship between the 
> moderators/special non-moderated folks and Apple/Emagic. You might 
> notice that they almost never criticize Apple or Emagic, and defend it 
> vigorously when other people complain. I suspect that they get free 
> copies of Logic - I know f-erenc and Orren Merton do because they are 
> beta testers. It seems a bit like the cigarette companies hosting 
> forums of whether or not their products are dangerous - a lack of 
> neutrality - especially when it comes to stifling free speech. If you 
> can't discuss the good and bad about a product - the most important 
> piece of music software I own - on an internet list, where can you 
> discuss it? When the moderators and movers/shakers have 
> personal/business ties with the company, it makes the list become an 
> indirect piece of product marketing rather than open free speech. 
> Luckily, you can say whatever you want here!
>
> Bug List
> As a user I would wish that there is some way of knowing a few things 
> about bugs :
> - Am I the only one experiencing this or is it common?
> - Is there a fix or workaround or things to avoid?
> - Does the company know about these things?
> I think its useful for the company - although they might not like it 
> to be public - to maintain a bug list. I was doing posting them for a 
> while on the LUG and was up to 40 or so. Maybe we could have a section 
> for that on our webpage here?
>
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>
>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/
>  
> • 	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Logic_Cafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • 	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

> LUG list, Moderation, & Apple :
> There seems to be some sort of close relationship between the
> moderators/special non-moderated folks and Apple/Emagic. You might notice
> that they almost never criticize Apple or Emagic, and defend it vigorously
> when other people complain. I suspect that they get free copies of Logic

I have no idea whether this is true, but I can tell you I like to defend Apple 
now and then against the rediculous accusations made against them (well not 
even against them, because people don't have the guts to yell at them 
directly) because I notice it's just fashionable to complain and especially 
come up with all kinds of silly theories about why Apple hates us so much.

And I can also tell you I'm not a moderator and have no ties with Apple or 
Emagic.

> I think its useful for the company - although they might not like it to be
> public - to maintain a bug list. I was doing posting them for a while on
> the LUG and was up to 40 or so. Maybe we could have a section for that on
> our webpage here?

Weren't they already collected on a webpage? And did you already submit them 
on Apple's feedback site?

Maurits.

On Dec 21, 2004, at 7:46 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:
>  Since Apple has taken active control of Logic, there was the paid 
> upgrade to 6.4 then no free upgrades, now the paid upgrade to 7, and 
> months with no upgrades. I liked Emagic's policy of numerous free 
> upgrades much better.

FCP and DVD studio pro are updated a lot.  I am sure the Logic team are 
working away on an update and I doubt it will be a paid one.

On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 09:10:50AM +0900, dennis gunn wrote:
> FCP and DVD studio pro are updated a lot.  I am sure the Logic team are 
> working away on an update and I doubt it will be a paid one. 

Even though the current update situation bugs me a lot (i think we
should have gotten something by now), I attribute the delay of 7.1 to
merging pains with Apple and Emagic. Something that they're trying to
get worked out internally to get things transitioned over to a new
process.

I figure one of these days in the next month we'll probably get the
"Software Update" icon bouncing on our taskbar with a very much
awaited update for Logic. 

-- 
Ben Harrison

On Dec 20, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Ben Harrison wrote:

>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 09:10:50AM +0900, dennis gunn wrote:
>> FCP and DVD studio pro are updated a lot.  I am sure the Logic team 
>> are
>> working away on an update and I doubt it will be a paid one.
>
> Even though the current update situation bugs me a lot (i think we
> should have gotten something by now), I attribute the delay of 7.1 to
> merging pains with Apple and Emagic. Something that they're trying to
> get worked out internally to get things transitioned over to a new
> process.
>
> I figure one of these days in the next month we'll probably get the
> "Software Update" icon bouncing on our taskbar with a very much
> awaited update for Logic.
>

I hope you guys are right. I switched from DP about a year ago 'cause 
the bugs in DP drove me away...... and I figured it couldn't hurt to be 
on the inside track of the Apple train. But now I wonder and I've 
upgraded to DP 4.5; I'm playing both sides of the fence and waiting to 
see which way to commit, or even if it's possible to commit to one 
platform.

DP is way easier to use, Logic's a lot more powerful.

Bug squashing is important but I think workflow issues are just as 
important. Do we really need all these windows? How about a narrow view 
in the Environment? What's up with busses and auxes? It's ridiculously 
complex to add an external effect loop in Logic. In DP you select an 
Aux, set the input and the output and you're there.

Also floating windows are completely annoying. Sure it's nice once in a 
while but most of the time I'm moving them out of my way, even with two 
monitors. Maybe a key command to toggle windows from float to 
non-float. I don't know. Maybe some of these issues will work 
themselves out as I use the program more.

I'm just hoping for one sequencer that does everything I need and do it 
in the simplest way possible. Logic is a long way from that but I'd 
like it to be my go to sequencer. As it is, if I have a mostly audio 
project I'll use DP 'cause the editing is a lot easier with less key 
strokes etc.

While I'm bitching just let me say that Logic's refusal to use a Pro 
Tools/DP style selection paradigm is just nuts. In PT you see the 
audio, hold the cursor over the audio, you click, you drag. That's it. 
I know this has been discussed to death but dammit, this is so 
elementary to editing on a sequencer, that I just can't understand it.

Whew! I just went off on that  didn't I?

Anyway, with Jack, Wormhole and MidiPipe this could all be moot. I'll 
use Logic to compose and bus it over to DP to edit and mix. All in real 
time. And you can even use Logic's plug in DP too!

Cheers
Michael Telle

At 17:19 Uhr -0800 20.12.2004, Michael Telle wrote:
>Also floating windows are completely annoying. Sure it's nice once in a
>while but most of the time I'm moving them out of my way, even with two
>monitors. Maybe a key command to toggle windows from float to
>non-float. I don't know. Maybe some of these issues will work
>themselves out as I use the program more.

There is, open the window with option pressed will open a regular 
window as float and a float as regular.

Cheers
Hans

On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:59 PM, Hans Hafner wrote:

>
> At 17:19 Uhr -0800 20.12.2004, Michael Telle wrote:
>> Also floating windows are completely annoying. Sure it's nice once in 
>> a
>> while but most of the time I'm moving them out of my way, even with 
>> two
>> monitors. Maybe a key command to toggle windows from float to
>> non-float. I don't know. Maybe some of these issues will work
>> themselves out as I use the program more.
>
> There is, open the window with option pressed will open a regular
> window as float and a float as regular.
>
> Cheers
> Hans
>

Sure, but there's no real way of knowing how to open it until it's been 
open for a while, and then you go..... Damn, I wish I could get this 
window out of the way for a second without closing it. At least that's 
what I do. I'm saying it would be nice to change it from a float or 
non-float with a key command, on-the-fly, after it's been initially 
opened.

Regards
Michael

On Dec 20, 2004, at 11:55 PM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> Sure, but there's no real way of knowing how to open it until it's been
>  open for a while, and then you go..... Damn, I wish I could get this
>  window out of the way for a second without closing it. At least that's
>  what I do. I'm saying it would be nice to change it from a float or
>  non-float with a key command, on-the-fly, after it's been initially
>  opened.
>
>
>  Maybe what we need is a running wish list.
>
>  Actually I have the opposite problem. If I open the event window then 
> if I click on arrange or matrix, the event window gets moved behind 
> the front window where it can't be seen. If you do this repeatedly, 
> you used to get about 20 event windows all open in the background - 
> although I haven't checked this recently. I think my solution would be 
> to minimize the window to an icon on the arrange/matrix page, which 
> you could click on to bring it back. Or else, some sort of giant 
> desktop window - when you open a new window, the others make room for 
> the new one to fit by making themselves smaller automatically.

What version are you on? I just opened the Event List as a float by 
hitting Option and then selecting it from the menu. L7. It stays as 
float. Oh I see, if you use "Cmd E" to toggle Event List it won't stay 
on top. If you select it from the menu with "Opt" it will. Hmm, that's 
odd.

> I think my solution would be to 
> minimize the window to an icon on the arrange/matrix page, 
> which you could click on to bring it back. Or else, some sort 
> of giant desktop window - 

That's exactly the way it works in Sonar. It uses Window's MDI interface.
Actually, Sonar has made it configurable so that it can work like Logic, or
as an MDI (multiple Document Interface) interface. Although I prefer Logic's
Matrix editor to Sonar's equivalent, I prefer Sonar's MDI interface because
it takes no effort at all to keep track of the windows that are open and, in
fact, to keep many open and switch between them. It just works better for
me. Having that little icon when you minimize the matrix editor would make
all the difference.

> when you open a new window, the 
> others make room for the new one to fit by making themselves 
> smaller automatically.

If you maximize the editor windows in Sonar, that's fairly close to what you
get, but not exactly.

Kamm

P.S. Thanks for the tip about holding down Option (whoever gave it). That
will be very helpful.

On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 06:59:57AM +0100, Hans Hafner wrote:
> There is, open the window with option pressed will open a regular 
> window as float and a float as regular.

I can't get this to work in L7 via keycommand anymore, btw. It works
if I use the pull-down menu and hold alt, but not if i for example
press apple-alt-5 to open a window.

-- 
Ben Harrison