QTR-Quadtone RIP

Carl,

These QTR grayscale-iccs are not exactly source spaces that one might
use (to perhaps alter contrast for example) with a linearized system.
I have a question then. Why are you converting grayscale images with
these create-icc grayscale iccs prior to printing? Is this how you are
getting a linearized output or is it because you want to alter the
tone scale during output? I use create-icc for softproofing only, this
is why I am asking.

Jon






-- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <list@...> wrote:
>
> Jon,
> 
> If you read the notes in the QTR download on using QTR Create-icc  
> profiles for a color managed workflow, I think you will have a better  
> understanding of how I am using these profiles.  ImageNest should be  
> able to properly convert an image using an RGB version of a Create-icc  
> profile (but not a gray version) if ImageNest color management is  
> selected.  Lightroom behaves in the same manner and will not use gray  
> profiles, but does work with QTR RGB profiles.  Both Lightroom and  
> ImageNest use the Colorsync engine for color management.  Photoshop is  
> both gray and RGB space savvy so either a gray or RGB profile will  
> work.  Create-icc profiles were designed to be applied to the image  
> before going on to the QTR driver where the final output curves are  
> applied.  The Create-icc profile conversion is done on the fly in  
> Photoshop via the print space in Print with Preview in Photoshop,  
> using perceptual rendering with BPC.  In ImageNest this is done by  
> letting ImageNest manage color and selecting a Create-icc profile (RGB  
> only) from the drop down list.  ImageNest will then do the conversion  
> from source space to the selected QTR icc profile and send the image  
> on to the QTR driver where an output curve is selected and applied  
> before going to the printer.  One work around for using the gray  
> version of the QTR icc profiles is to first convert the image in  
> Photoshop to the QTR gray icc profile and save the file tagged with  
> the QTR gray icc profile.  Then in ImageNest check the Use embedded  
> profile box, select printer color management, and open the converted  
> image.  ImageNest will then pass on the image file without  
> modification to QTR for final printing.  I think this latter procedure  
> is similar to what you were doing with your untagged gray file, but  
> the only thing ImageNest was doing to your file was applying a default  
> source profile (whatever one you chose for gray space) and then  
> passing the file on to QTR.  There was no real color management or  
> file conversion involved - just a simple pipeline pass through after  
> tagging the file with a source profile.  I prefer letting ImageNest  
> handle color management as it avoids the hassle of doing the file  
> conversions in Photoshop.
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Jon Cone wrote:
> 
> > Carl,
> >
> > There is an input and an output side to color management with
> > ImageNest. On the input side you can choose to select a profile or use
> > an embedded, it has an affect on the image which ImageNest then RIPs.
> > If you RIP into a PDF to view, you can see these changes in the PDF.
> > ImageNest is handing off a PDF to QTR. If you can not see the changes
> > in the PDF, or if you see that it is not black in the PDF - but is so
> > when it prints - then there may be some other issue involved.
> >
> > QTR takes this "input" PDF and prints it with its own output
> > management in the form of Curves.
> >
> > I think that what you are trying to do (maybe?) is attach an OUTPUT
> > profile to the image.  In that regard, yes ImageNest can not affect
> > the output side of things with QTR using a custom output Grayscale ICC
> > profile. That is where you let QTR manage the output.
> >
> > I think we are on the same page again - just having a different think
> > about using an output grayscale ICC in place of an input grayscale  
> > ICC.
> >
> > RGB is different.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <list@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jon,
> >>
> >> Yes, I have the latest (1.0.1) version of ImageNest.  If you are
> >> setting "Printer manages color" then no color management is occurring
> >> because Imagenest will pass off the file tagged either with an
> >> embedded source profile (e.g.. gray gamma, QTR gray, etc.) or one  
> >> that
> >> it assigns from the list of default source profile choices (RGB,  
> >> CMYK,
> >> or gray) if the file is untagged.  It will not convert the file to a
> >> printer profile (QTR Create-icc profile) in this case.  If you choose
> >> Imagenest color management then it will convert the image to the
> >> selected printing profile (this is where you choose a QTR icc  
> >> profile)
> >> from the drop down list under the check box for ImageNest Color
> >> management.  This is how color management works on the Mac when
> >> printing to QTR from Photoshop using Create-icc profiles and I assume
> >> that ImageNest follows the same convention in applying color  
> >> management.
> >>
> >> Carl
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 14, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Jon Cone wrote:
> >>
> >>> Carl,
> >>>
> >>> I'm not getting that result with a tagged image either. I am able to
> >>> print and the results are indicative of the preview. So one of us or
> >>> the other has a bug! I hope its you and not me, because I like this
> >>> feature!
> >>>
> >>> Do you have the latest version? You can check or uncheck "Use  
> >>> embedded
> >>> ICC profile."  Also, correct use is "Printer Manages Colors" rather
> >>> than "ImageNest Manages Colors." The idea being letting ImageNest  
> >>> hand
> >>> off the job (with different input profile) to QTR.
> >>>
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <list@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Jon,
> >>>>
> >>>> You are correct, but the key word is untagged image.  If you open a
> >>>> grayscale image that has been tagged in Photoshop with a source  
> >>>> space
> >>>> profile like gray gamma 2.2 and then specify a gray QTR printer
> >>>> profile in ImageNest then it will not work and you get a black  
> >>>> box in
> >>>> preview and in print.  The same tagged image will preview and print
> >>>> correctly if an RGB QTR printer profile is used.
> >>>> Carl
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 13, 2008, at 10:21 PM, Jon Cone wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Carl,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I find that QTR responds accurately to the preview of ImageNest
> >>>>> when I
> >>>>> let ImageNest assign a grayscale ICC to an untagged image. Are you
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> 1.0.1?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Schofield" <list@>  
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, thanks Jon.  I have also been using ImageNest with QTR and  
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>> works very well, but if
> >>>>>> QTR users want to let ImageNest handle color management via  
> >>>>>> custom
> >>>>> icc profiles they
> >>>>>> should be aware that it is necessary to use the RGB version of
> >>>>> Create-icc profiles.  If you
> >>>>>> try to use a gray icc profile the image will preview and print
> >>>>>> solid
> >>>>> black.  Two features I
> >>>>>> would like to see them add are softproofing and the ability to  
> >>>>>> save
> >>>>> custom layouts for re-
> >>>>>> use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Carl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>