QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi Jimbo,

You talk like a conservator and I agree with everything you say. When using a wax, and I must say again, that I am sure that there is nothing new in Renaissance Wax, that cannot be found in many other modern preparations, regardless of whether it is used by conservators. (the title "conservator" another whole subject in itself)  What I have to add is that these newly formulated waxes -which Renaissance Wax is one of- have other chemicals that have no history in there effects on the materials we are speaking of. I have had a number of waxes analyzed on a gas chromatograph, and defined, that have things like petroleum distillates (admittedly a most vague term, but OK for this discussion)as well as a number of others like Xyene and Naphthas. I think I remember Triethanolamine for emulsifcation, which I think would be necessary. This wax is not the old master secret formula that the name romantically implies to some, as a matter of fact it is comparatively quite "techie" .  I would think that these elements should have some kind of testing in their effects on the materials that photographers use, beyond testimonials.  As you say making mistakes in these matters can be very costly later on, to the professional. I have been there.

Re: The poster who spoke about the use of it for protecting it against fingerprints Etc..

A wax preparation would very likely be giving this illusion, in the same way you would keep a dry surface from showing the oil from a fingerprint by covering a surface with oil, which would not show the oil left by a finger, when touched. Simply because it is already, in a practical sense, oily. That to me, structurally, is not the same as a protectant.


Respectfully,

David



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mrjimbo 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] renaissance wax and bronzing?


  David,
  I concur with your assesment.. A short time ago this product was brought up and discussed to some degree.. I did a post regarding what I understood.. Since then I had an opportunity to speak with a Fredrikson Rep whom also follows this group.. At any rate .. those that choose to go that route do so at their own risk.. The material and ink suppliers feel their is no credible data that supports the use of this product.. So if one has an issue they have lost whatever support they may have gotten from their Canvas or ink supplier.. 
  The part that I struggle with is that I understand one wanting to do things less costly and easier.. but when it come to canvas if your using aquias inks you must coat the product. IF coating a canvas is that much of a struggel then sell your printer and swith to solvent inks and do what is refered to as a Decor Giclee..Pretty much all canavs suppliers that I have dealt with thru the years will gladly tell you the approved coatings that work with their products.. So in a sense it's part of a system. 
  Those that want to use Renaissance Wax probably simply don't want to deal with the idea or rolling or spraying their products.. Well the truth is that goes with the territory.. SO those that try this unapproved stuff and if they end up with egg on their faces actually effect all of us in the long run.. 
  Those that want to use Renaissance Wax. I would suggest they contact the manufacturer and have them get hooked up with a Canvas manufacturer and go thru the wickets of testing etc so they can get the concurance of the material supplier.. Anyone that is in question I suggest contact your material supplier ( canvas ) and ask them if it's an approved process. 
  I've see posters speak highly of this material being used on canvas.. The stuff is not designed for that use..It furnitur epolish basically... Why take the risk .. If you want to hang the prints on your own walls then I guess it's for each their own.. but if your selling them.. well their is no way I would think anyone presently knows the long term or short term for that matter effects of this product on canvas..
  As a side bar I was recently made aware of a friend that offered a warranty on his canvas images based upon what he understood the longitivity to be.. He did considerable work for a well know artist and has been sued regarding images that are falling off the shelf after 8 years (Their fading badly I understand) Simply he overstated a warranty and now gets to make good on it.. SO if you sell a product with wax on it would you share that with your customer such that it's your inovation and whatever happens as a result of that just happens???

  jimbo 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: magickPal 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] renaissance wax and bronzing?

  As an antique conservator (furniture, decorative arts) I would caution you not to ascribe too much confidence in any wax giving significant protection to anything. This includes "Renaissance Wax" which is, in reality, not much different than any of other the proprietary waxes that are on the market, even though it seems, unexplainably to me, to have been chosen by the public to contain qualities, that are unavailable in the others. Waxes throughout history have been primarily used for aesthetic reasons, and in my experience have a rather minimal use as a protectant. I wonder if there is any real data on its effect on paper. I have never heard of a paper conservator using it and doubt it has been. What the materials that are defined as "canvas" I have no knowledge of. Any graphics conservators out there?

  David Pal

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carl Schofield 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] renaissance wax and bronzing?

  I'm currently testing Renaissance wax on water resistant glossy 
  canvas. Seems to work very well giving a nice soft sheen and good for 
  protecting from dirt, grime, water, etc. It did eliminate slight 
  gloss differential on some of my canvas prints. I have no bronzing 
  problems.

  Carl

  On Sep 12, 2008, at 1:27 PM, djon43 wrote:

  > Has anybody got experience with Renaissance wax?
  >
  > It surely protective and dealers claim it'll "reduce" bronzing...what
  > does "reduce" mean? Is it highly worthwhile for that purpose?
  >
  > I'd rather apply wax and rub it (did that with Johnson's paste on
  > darkroom prints in the 70s) than spray because I don't want to deal
  > with dust and fumes (want to do it indoors).

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