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QTR can find the qidf file I just created.

QTR can find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-21 by jp432r@...

I can't believe this actually is a new topic, but my search turned up nothing so I press on.

I am relatively new to QTR and am finding much of its interface quite baffling and mysterious.

I am using it on a PC. Nearly all of the tutorials I've found are for Macs.

Following instructions found in many places and using WordPad, I am editing and saving an existing qidf file under a new file name.

The first time I did this, the new file appeared in the Curve Setup pulldown.


I made addition tweaks and saved it again under a new name.

This second file does not appear in the pulldown.

What have I don wrong? How do I fix it?

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff

P.S.

The tutorial by Michael Reichmann includes this cryptic (to me) statement that might apply, but I can't figure out why or how to do whatever it is he's suggesting. Mostly because I don't know what a .acv curve is (I'm editing the qidf file, so perhaps it doesn't apply).

"18. From the Gray Curve tab in the QTR Curve Creator browse to the .acv curve and select. The following is why it's important for the curve to have been generated from a grayscale image: if it's not grayscale, you'll get a cryptic error message when you go to save the QTR Curve and the Curve Creation will fail."

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR can find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-22 by Paul Roark

It's not entirely clear to me what you're trying to do. However, I work with QTR in Windows 7 and might make a few observations.

While the QTR *.quad files (what the rip actually uses) and *.qidf files (what you edit in QTR's Curve Creator) are originally stored under the C:\Program file (x86)\QuadToneRIP\ folder when the program is first installed, after you edit a file, it is put in a hidden folder that is hard to get to. The reason is that Windows tries to separate program files from newly stored data for security reasons. I recommend you put a shortcut on you Desktop to this location:

"C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP"

In Windows, use QTR's Curve Creator to alter the profile, not a text editor. The Windows Curve Creator GUI is excellent (though if you're on Win 8 some of the graphing may not work). When you save a profile you've created or altered there, it'll be stored by QTR (actually the Windows OS) under the hidden folder, above. You'll find there will be sub-folders for the different file types and printers.

An *.acv curve is a Photoshop image adjustment curve. While there is a place in QTR where one can import them, I'd avoid this approach. I use PS *.acv curves to control inksets if I'm using the Epson driver to print, but I have not found them useful when I'm printing with QTR.

The place to start is usually to find an existing QTR profile that is for the paper and inkset you're using and see how it works. If you're lucky, re-linearization is all that is needed.

You might find the my write-up of a simple QTR procedure starting at page 11 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf useful. Ignore the inkset. The basic procedures are the same for most inksets. Learning how to set up basic gray partition is key. With respect to printing, I use a custom adjustment curve to account for the differences between my Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace and QTR9;s literally linear printing characteristics, but you can also convert the file's space to QTR's using an ICC that is included in the QTR download (in \bin I believe; needs to be put in your ICC folder -- try right clicking it to install the ICC).

QTR takes some learning, but start simple and you'll find it's a great printing utility.

Good luck,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:34 AM, jp432r@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I can't believe this actually is a new topic, but my search turned up nothing so I press on.

I am relatively new to QTR and am finding much of its interface quite baffling and mysterious.

I am using it on a PC. Nearly all of the tutorials I've found are for Macs.

Following instructions found in many places and using WordPad, I am editing and saving an existing qidf file under a new file name.

The first time I did this, the new file appeared in the Curve Setup pulldown.


I made addition tweaks and saved it again under a new name.

This second file does not appear in the pulldown.

What have I don wrong? How do I fix it?

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff

P.S.

The tutorial by Michael Reichmann includes this cryptic (to me) statement that might apply, but I can't figure out why or how to do whatever it is he's suggesting. Mostly because I don't know what a .acv curve is (I'm editing the qidf file, so perhaps it doesn't apply).

"18. From the Gray Curve tab in the QTR Curve Creator browse to the .acv curve and select. The following is why it's important for the curve to have been generated from a grayscale image: if it's not grayscale, you'll get a cryptic error message when you go to save the QTR Curve and the Curve Creation will fail."


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR can't find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-22 by jp432r@...

Thanks for your answer and for your time.

As I mentioned, I am a relative beginner with QTR. I suspect most of my difficulties have to do with not understanding the program and the instructions for it.

FYI I am the system admin for several multi-node video editing media servers, so I'm not a novice with complex PC based computers and software problems. This situation is making me feel like a bit of a dunce.

I am working in Windows 8.2, which up to now I have found quite compatible with every program I've loaded.
I am using QTR because so many people have praised and recommended it, but I am finding it very un-intuitive and a struggle.
My goal is to make enlarged digital negatives for contact printing.

I am editing the qidf file in a text editor for two reasons:
1) Curve Creation does not work -- at all. When I've tried it by creating a curve and then attempted to save it or "Show Curve" the system just grinds away and even after as long as 15 minutes has never saved anything or displayed a curve. I have done a clean install of the program several times, without effect.
2) I cannot find a way to open and modify a specific curve in Curve Creation. I normally work by changing what I have previously done, saving, then testing. Change - save - test. There does not appear to be a way to do this, although this could easily be happening because Curve Creation just isn't working properly.

At your suggestion is put the qidf file I made in the location you suggested
C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP"
QTR still does not find it.

I have found the qidf profiles for printers at
C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\profiles\PRINTER_NAME" and had put the profiles I made in that same location. As above moving one of my custom profiles to the location you suggested did not make it appear. In fact, the one that been displayed in the pulldown has now disappeared.

Now that I've written all this the problem sounds even more like there is a problem with the program install or perhaps the program is incompatible with Win 8.2 (which makes me wonder what will happen when Microsoft begins pushing 10).

I read your guide and imagine it will be quite helpful if I can ever get anything to work as it should.

Any additional thoughts will be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Jeff Redman

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR can't find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-22 by Paul Roark

That's interesting that the original install did not put the existing profiles in \Program files. That may be another step by MS to protect that directory. I wonder if as admin you could make the appropriate folder in \Program Files (x86) and manually save some of the QTR files there. Not the under \quadtonerip there are both a Profiles folder for the *.qidf files and a QuadTone

Does QTR find any of the files that were installed along with the program?

I think Win 8 is a major part of your problem. Particularly if you are using the "Show Curves" to save, it'll probably just hang on an apparent graphics incompatibility introduced by Win 8.

Be sure your printer driver is installed.

With the Win8 problems, I wonder if the Mac side procedures might be sources of help, but it sounds like you've read over some of those already.

I've been waiting for someone to report on Win 10, which I guess is shipping now. I suppose it's wishful thinking that they'd give us better backward compatibility here. The graphics end of Win must have totally changed with the touchscreen tech.

Good luck, and keep up posted.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, jp432r@winfirst.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for your answer and for your time.

As I mentioned, I am a relative beginner with QTR. I suspect most of my difficulties have to do with not understanding the program and the instructions for it.

FYI I am the system admin for several multi-node video editing media servers, so I'm not a novice with complex PC based computers and software problems. This situation is making me feel like a bit of a dunce.

I am working in Windows 8.2, which up to now I have found quite compatible with every program I've loaded.
I am using QTR because so many people have praised and recommended it, but I am finding it very un-intuitive and a struggle.
My goal is to make enlarged digital negatives for contact printing.

I am editing the qidf file in a text editor for two reasons:
1) Curve Creation does not work -- at all. When I've tried it by creating a curve and then attempted to save it or "Show Curve" the system just grinds away and even after as long as 15 minutes has never saved anything or displayed a curve. I have done a clean install of the program several times, without effect.
2) I cannot find a way to open and modify a specific curve in Curve Creation. I normally work by changing what I have previously done, saving, then testing. Change - save - test. There does not appear to be a way to do this, although this could easily be happening because Curve Creation just isn't working properly.

At your suggestion is put the qidf file I made in the location you suggested
C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP"
QTR still does not find it.

I have found the qidf profiles for printers at
C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\profiles\PRINTER_NAME" and had put the profiles I made in that same location. As above moving one of my custom profiles to the location you suggested did not make it appear. In fact, the one that been displayed in the pulldown has now disappeared.

Now that I've written all this the problem sounds even more like there is a problem with the program install or perhaps the program is incompatible with Win 8.2 (which makes me wonder what will happen when Microsoft begins pushing 10).

I read your guide and imagine it will be quite helpful if I can ever get anything to work as it should.

Any additional thoughts will be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Jeff Redman


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR can't find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-29 by jp432r@...

I thought it might be helpful to others for me to post something I've discovered about using QTR in Windows 8.1 that might not be obvious. Although with Win 10 being released today, who knows whether it will be useful to anyone.

You really must open QTR ins "Administrator Mode". (Right click on icon and click Run in Administrator Mode from pop-up list).

While QTR itself appears to run well in User Mode, Curve Creator has all sorts of conflicts with Windows security in User Mode. The net result being that, after getting a number (I counted 4) of different error messages, Curve Creator does not actually create the .quad file it needs UNLESS you are in Administrator Mode. (Admin Mode does not correct the program's inability to display the curve in Win 8).

One more thing... I discovered that I could edit the .gidf file in WordPad (easier for me because the Curve Creator interface makes NO sense to me even after reading all the HELP screens several times). BUT because of Windows Security I had to first remove the "write only" attribute from the entire "bin" sub-folder in the QTR folder (navigate to the folder; right click on it, open Properties; deselect the "Read-Only" radio button; click OK or Apply; select "Apply changes to this folder, subfolders, and files"; click OK; close the folder Properties window). Once you have done so you MAY be able to save your Curves directly into the "bin" folder. If you cannot, save the Curve to the Desktop, then drag the file into the "bin" folder. You will be asked to confirm you have admin permissions. (I really do hope that Win10 has less of this security crap in it.)

Maybe this will save someone else from having to discover it on their own.

Jeff

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR can't find the qidf file I just created.

2015-07-30 by richard@...

Jeff, thanks for the tips on what someone might need to do to get these things to work properly on Windows. I've been lucky with it working fine on a borrowed windows 7 machine I use for testing things, and haven't needed to do too much fussing around with admin/privileges settings. Everyone I know stayed clear away from Windows 8... I am planning on installing Windows 10 as a virtual machine on my Mac to do the illustrations for a section on the Windows QTRqui interface/workflow so I will quickly see how much trouble it causes (still writing the book... ~20,000 words so far, but things are reallyreally hectic right now—getting married, working, a few shows, trying to buy a house, fiance/(my editor) just started a new job...)

Anyway, all this security stuff might end up being a problem for everyone with future versions of OSs on both platforms. In listening to a few Mac podcasts recently I started to wonder how the new rootless thing with El Cap is going affect QTR (if at all). I can understand why companies are doing it, but i just don't know enough to see what problems it might cause for everyday QTR users.

The QTRgui: Some people might be more comfortable with the Windows QTR curve creation tools, but there are certain things that are completely bonkers with some of the input field labels (like "density" for the cross over points and the "copy data" button for the measurement values in the linearization tab). I don't mean to just rag on the design or any past documentation, and I hope that at some point someone is able to update the interface and make some of the inputs a little easier to deal with.

I do find that working directly with the text file can often be easier than navigating the curve creation tools interface. The problem with the PC is that I think you NEED the curve creation tools to actually create the quad curves from the "instructions/recipe" in the ink descriptor file. If you are not finding the curves in the profile/curve selection drop down it might be because they are not installed until the ink descriptor file is opened in the curve creation module and the "show curve" button is clicked (I am pretty sure that is the only point when all the ink partitioning/gray curve/linearization calculations are done). Maybe Roy can correct me on that, and maybe there is a way the curve creator/installer can be run in a terminal process like it is on the mac (i am not sure what is done in Perl and what is based on other stuff going on for the Windows side—all that is just beyond me at this point).

As far as the thing about .acv curves: .acv curve are just photoshop curves that can be linked to in the gray_curve= line in the ink descriptor file, and can then be used to edit the base gray ramp (along with any of the other settings you may have used to create the initial profile). It is just defining the input;output points

Instead of messing around in Photoshop and creating a correction curve by hand, saving it, and then pasting it into the qidf file (and hoping the file path never changes), I created an excel spreadsheet template that automatically creates a 21-step correction curve based on the standard Lab_L measurement data. It works on a pretty basic linear interpolation using the two closest densities between the known and ideal densities. I have all the actual formulas hidden and/or locked away so nothing can get inadvertently moved or potentially broken (and so it looks pretty). I started writing about the whole correction curve process but it was taking too long and I just wanted to make this thing available to people. Basically, all you need to do is enter the measurement data—by either pasting the whole column from the measurement text file or one measurement value at a time—and then copy the correction curve values into the gray_curve= line in the ink descriptor text file (or the gray curve input in the QTRgui). I am working on an easy-to-use Density to Lab_L conversion worksheet for people using a good ol' densitometer (it is already done I just need to move it and make it look pretty too). You can use the linearize data script to parse out the Lab_L data and then open the -out.txt file in excel, then copy and paste the measurements into the worksheet.

In any case, this tool should be helpful for getting a somewhat straight line prior to actual linearization, hopefully doing away with some of the "Lab values not in order" error when creating custom QTR profiles. It might even/should be useful for creating correction curves for digital negatives/alt processes, but I haven't been able to test it for that yet. It should be pretty self-explanatory, but I will try to write up a quick blog post with screenshots and more detailed instructions soon.

Here is a link to the free Excel template/worksheet in my public BWMastery QTR Toolbox Dropbox folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cpdt5dm4zuppr62/BWMASTERY-21-step-QTR-Correction-Curve-Tool.xltx?dl=0


Richard Boutwell
http://www.richardboutwell.com
http://www.bwmastery.com


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