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Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by rdeloe1@...

A bag of expired Epson cartridges I picked up for the chips to use in refillables carts for my Epson 3880 came with a bonus: an Epson 3800 with a lightly clogged Light Magenta channel, but no other obvious issues. Clogged channels are fixable, and this one is only missing a few ticks on the LM nozzle check. All the other channels are fine on the nozzle check.

I hate to see a good printer get landfilled, and it will be a good backup for my 3880. But, before I get serious about up the LM channel I need to know if another issue is related and fixable.

I made a few prints and noticed some micro-banding on prints in certain tones. An automatic head alignment followed by a manual head alignment did not improve things. The micro-banding is quite obvious in a QTR calibration print. It's parallel to the direction of the print head when the ink was laid down. The banding is very noticeable in Cyan and Magenta, and noticeable in Light Cyan and Light Magenta. It's barely noticeable in Y, LK, LLK, and practically invisible in K.

I'm using Paul Roark's Eboni-Variable Tone ink formula, so the Y channel is the toner, LLK is the same ink as LM, and LK is the same ink as M. The ink is WJ1082 from STS (a fresh bottle). The cartridges are refilled Epson OEM carts. Carts hold pressure and do not leak.

Prior to loading the Eboni-VT ink in the refilled Epson OEM carts, I ran a cleaning solution from cleaning carts through the printer until all lines printed clear. I lightly cleaned the print head, and I thoroughly cleaned the capping station using the techniques in the excellent Inkjetmall videos. There may still be dried ink and paper dust under the head (I haven't done overnight soaks of the head yet). As I said above, I also ran automatic and manual head alignments.

So... what might be causing this micro-banding in the calibration chart? More to the point, is it worth putting more time into this printer, or could I be dealing with something that isn't fixable? Rob


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

The head-alignments do not fix head-direction micro banding. Head alignments fix miss-timed fires that create vertical moire-style banding (perpendicular to the head direction).  Do all tests at 2880dpi UniDirection with the QTR 8ink file in Calibration mode. It’s normal to see some micro banding even then when testing with this file (even on good heads).

however,...

The LM is most likely causing most of micro-banding in-print. You probably have nozzles dropping out during the print-process most likely due to old damper assembly with particulate in it that is limiting the head-pressure during the print. Dampers only last a few years if the printer was used a lot. They have very tiny screens in them that are last-resort filters before the ink goes into the head. These fill up. They also are covered by a very thin plastic film air-seal that can get holes in it over time and let small amounts of air into the system (although when that happens you will often see either leaks or full channel dropping out). They can also be miss-aligned to the ink inlets on the head itself. It could be the end-of-road for the head as well if it has particulate in its intake manifold or (god forbid) inside of its piezo-channels.

I can’t attest to the quality of the ink, it’s age or if you let it sit around, or if the bottle it is stored in had particulate matter, or the quality of the cartridge if not IJM’s, but these are all long-run factors. However, I’ve seen this happen often enough with only Epson OEM ink . . .

Best,
Walker
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Apr 11, 2016, at 8:33 AM, rdeloe1@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> A bag of expired Epson cartridges I picked up for the chips to use in refillables carts for my Epson 3880 came with a bonus: an Epson 3800 with a lightly clogged Light Magenta channel, but no other obvious issues. Clogged channels are fixable, and this one is only missing a few ticks on the LM nozzle check. All the other channels are fine on the nozzle check.
> 
> I hate to see a good printer get landfilled, and it will be a good backup for my 3880. But, before I get serious about up the LM channel I need to know if another issue is related and fixable.
> 
> I made a few prints and noticed some micro-banding on prints in certain tones. An automatic head alignment followed by a manual head alignment did not improve things. The micro-banding is quite obvious in a QTR calibration print. It's parallel to the direction of the print head when the ink was laid down. The banding is very noticeable in Cyan and Magenta, and noticeable in Light Cyan and Light Magenta. It's barely noticeable in Y, LK, LLK, and practically invisible in K. 
> 
> I'm using Paul Roark's Eboni-Variable Tone ink formula, so the Y channel is the toner, LLK is the same ink as LM, and LK is the same ink as M. The ink is WJ1082 from STS (a fresh bottle). The cartridges are refilled Epson OEM carts. Carts hold pressure and do not leak. 
> 
> Prior to loading the Eboni-VT ink in the refilled Epson OEM carts, I ran a cleaning solution from cleaning carts through the printer until all lines printed clear. I lightly cleaned the print head, and I thoroughly cleaned the capping station using the techniques in the excellent Inkjetmall videos. There may still be dried ink and paper dust under the head (I haven't done overnight soaks of the head yet). As I said above, I also ran automatic and manual head alignments. 
> 
> So... what might be causing this micro-banding in the calibration chart? More to the point, is it worth putting more time into this printer, or could I be dealing with something that isn't fixable?  Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by rdeloe1@...

Walker, thanks for the clarification re head alignment diagnostics. That's good to know.

This printer was lightly used in a small lab. It has made 781 prints. My sense is that it was too much printer for the people that bought it. They didn't do any maintenance, and then the LM head starting acting up. At that point they probably pushed it aside. It's only ever had Epson OEM inks in it, but they've clearly been sitting around for ages; some of the cartridges that came with the printer are dated 2009, while the newest spares are 2012.

Your guess that there might be particles and other gunk in the dampers sounds very reasonable.

I did all tests at 2880 dpi UniDirection, and just tried it with the QTR 8ink file in Calibration mode.The banding is even more obvious than on the smaller default calibration chart. For comparison, I did the same test on my Artisan 1430. It doesn't show any noticeable micro-banding.

Interestingly, on a nozzle check the LM channel on the 3800 always shows exactly the same 3 missing lines. I thought that usually means that there's something stuck to the outside of the head, rather than coming down the line. Is this relevant? Does it change your hunch?

Re: Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by brian_downunda@...

If the nozzle check seems to be good on all but three LM nozzles, but you're getting banding on some other channels in a QTR calibration / ink separation print, then I wonder if there are misfiring nozzles in those other channels, esp if the printer has been left idle with old inks:

http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/content.php?167-Evaluate-a-Manual-Nozzle-Check-to-Determine-the-Health-of-Your-Printer

To pick this, you usually have to examine your nozzle pattern under a loupe.

Re: Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by rdeloe1@...

Brian, that Inkjetmall page is another excellent resource -- bookmarked!

Unfortunately, even under a powerful loupe it all looks great. Verticals are nice and straight. Horizontal lines are evenly and properly spaced. The only problem evident on this nozzle check is those 3 missing LM nozzles. It looks just like the nozzle check for my known good 1430.

Is it possible that the LM channel, with its missing 3 nozzles, is affecting all the other ones? Even on a print made with QTR and 8ink file in Calibration mode (which I thought was designed to isolate the channels from each other)?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by Harry Lockwood

I’m at some risk of contributing something totally irrelevant because I have not been following this thread.  If that’s the case, my apologies.

There is a micro banding issue (an acknowledged bug) with QTR that pops up at the beginning and end of a print when the paper leaves a margin of less than ~1 inch; it is not related to the quality of the nozzle check.  (The lines, which require a loop to see, run parallel to the print head direction.) Some people successfully attach a leader that gets around this problem.

If this is the problem alluded to here, the test is easily performed by printing with a larger margin.

In addition, it has been my experience with the R2400 and the R3000 is that this kind of micro banding, curiously, occurs somewhat less than 100% of the time.  Whether this problem applies to the Epson 3800 is a question to be considered.

HFL
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From:  <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of "rdeloe1@... [QuadtoneRIP]" <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To:  <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>
Date:  Monday, April 11, 2016 at 9:57 AM
To:  <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>
Subject:  Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

 
 
 
 
   

Walker, thanks for the clarification re head alignment diagnostics. That's good to know.  

This printer was lightly used in a small lab. It has made 781 prints. My sense is that it was too much printer for the people that bought it. They didn't do any maintenance, and then the LM head starting acting up. At that point they probably pushed it aside. It's only ever had Epson OEM inks in it, but they've clearly been sitting around for ages; some of the cartridges that came with the printer are dated 2009, while the newest spares are 2012.

Your guess that there might be particles and other gunk in the dampers sounds very reasonable.

I did all tests at 2880 dpi UniDirection, and just tried it with the QTR 8ink file in Calibration mode.The banding is even more obvious than on the smaller default calibration chart. For comparison, I did the same test on my Artisan 1430. It doesn't show any noticeable micro-banding.

Interestingly, on a nozzle check the LM channel on the 3800 always shows exactly the same 3 missing lines. I thought that usually means that there's something stuck to the outside of the head, rather than coming down the line. Is this relevant? Does it change your hunch?

Re: Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-11 by brian_downunda@...

No that shouldn't be the case. If you print a normal purge pattern through the Epson driver, then each bar or column always will be a mix of several channels, because of the RGB->CMYK conversion performed by the driver. But if you print that odd-looking cyan and magenta QTR ink separation page using QTR calibration mode, then each bar or column will be printed using just one ink channel. That's the beauty of calibration mode.

You said that performed these calibration prints at 2880, presumably on plain copier paper. I find that 2880 is too high to reveal what is going on, as it overloads the paper. I prefer 720 for diagnostic purposes, as any issues are clearer. It's not as smooth a print, but it reveals more IMHO.

Harry Lockwood's comment about micro-banding in the first and last inch applies to the smaller desktops like the R3000 and smaller (probably the P600 as well), but not to Pro printers like the 3800/3880 and larger. There's more info on my blog, but it doesn't apply in your case.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <rdeloe1@...> wrote :

Is it possible that the LM channel, with its missing 3 nozzles, is affecting all the other ones? Even on a print made with QTR and 8ink file in Calibration mode (which I thought was designed to isolate the channels from each other)?

Re: Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-12 by rdeloe1@...

That's what I feared. Even at 2880 the banding is very strong on the calibration chart in most positions. I have a bad feeling that this printer is shot. It was used in an environment where people who didn't have much or any training used it.

Thankfully it was free and I have a 3880.

Thanks to everyone who replied with advice.

Re: Calibration print banding -- Epson 3800 fixable?

2016-04-12 by brian_downunda@...

There's always the question about whether to throw good money at trying to fix something uncertain like this. It's odd that seven of eight nozzles are good in the check but fewer in the ink sep pattern. I agree with Walker that the ink dampers are likely to be the cause, and these could be replaced at modest cost if you do it yourself. But it's a gamble of time and money and there's still those three magenta nozzles that may or may not clear.

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