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QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-18 by roy@...

There's a new version of QTR driver -- both Mac and PC.

Main addition is a "2880 super" resolution/weave selection on many of the

small printers. Large P-Series printers are more directly supported.


There is also an update to Data-Tool


There's a potential website issue with my provider. If you don't see the 2.7.8

versions after refreshing you browser you may need to remove the "www."

in the url. I have no idea why but it seems to work.


Roy


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-18 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Thank you Roy.

Hopefully this addresses the micro-line issue with P-Series printers and we can release Piezography on for these printers asap after testing and profiling.

All the best,
Walker



> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:45 PM, roy@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> There's a new version of QTR driver -- both Mac and PC.
> 
> Main addition is a "2880 super" resolution/weave selection on many of the
> 
> small printers.  Large P-Series printers are more directly supported.
> 
> 
> 
> There is also an update to Data-Tool
> 
> 
> 
> There's a potential website issue with my provider.  If you don't see the 2.7.8
> 
> versions after refreshing you browser you may need to remove the "www."
> 
> in the url.  I have no idea why but it seems to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-18 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Also, thank you for taking out the deprecated Piezography curves!

Best,
Walker



> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:49 PM, forums@... wrote:
> 
> Thank you Roy.
> 
> Hopefully this addresses the micro-line issue with P-Series printers and we can release Piezography on for these printers asap after testing and profiling.
> 
> All the best,
> Walker
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:45 PM, roy@... <mailto:roy@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> There's a new version of QTR driver -- both Mac and PC.
>> 
>> Main addition is a "2880 super" resolution/weave selection on many of the
>> 
>> small printers.  Large P-Series printers are more directly supported.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> There is also an update to Data-Tool
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> There's a potential website issue with my provider.  If you don't see the 2.7.8
>> 
>> versions after refreshing you browser you may need to remove the "www."
>> 
>> in the url.  I have no idea why but it seems to work.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Roy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-18 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Thanks again Roy.

I confirmed that this 2880x2880 resolution is working to eliminate micro-banding for all Gloss and Matte Piezography printing on SureColor P400, P600, and P800 printers. I have updated the community edition with those curves today (for Mac and Windows): https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition <https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition> (P2 HD, K6 HD, and Pro curves for all printers). We will have ink sets available for purchase in the coming days for these printers as we have also made available unique cartridge solutions for the P400, P600, and P800 printers in the last month.

I’ve also added P6000, P7000, P8000, and P9000 curves (P2, K6, and Pro) for those who have viable refillable cartridges outside of the US.

For anyone wanting to do Piezography on the 11880 you will need a chip decode (not sold by us, but the ones out there work) and our cartridges for the 7890 (which fit perfectly).

Happy new year everyone.
-Walker

ps: And thanks for updating the PPD list Roy.  FYI, if you want to dupe the R2000 ppd over to P400 ppd, I’ve confirmed that it works as well.


--
Walker Blackwell

Research & Development @ Vermont Photo Inkjet, LLC

piezography.com <http://piezography.com/> (Piezography Inks & Instructions)
cone-editions.com <http://cone-editions.com/> (Fine Art Prints)
inkjetmall.com <http://inkjetmall.com/> (Historical Process & Inkjet Supplies)
community.inkjetmall.com <http://community.inkjetmall.com/> (Tech Support)

Skype | Instagram | WeChat | Reddit | Twitter | etc: walkerblackwell

**I try to respond to work emails M-Thur 8am-6pm**


--
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This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you.







> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:52 PM, forums@... wrote:
> 
> Also, thank you for taking out the deprecated Piezography curves!
> 
> Best,
> Walker
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:49 PM, forums@... <mailto:forums@...> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you Roy.
>> 
>> Hopefully this addresses the micro-line issue with P-Series printers and we can release Piezography on for these printers asap after testing and profiling.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Walker
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:45 PM, roy@... <mailto:roy@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There's a new version of QTR driver -- both Mac and PC.
>>> 
>>> Main addition is a "2880 super" resolution/weave selection on many of the
>>> 
>>> small printers.  Large P-Series printers are more directly supported.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is also an update to Data-Tool
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There's a potential website issue with my provider.  If you don't see the 2.7.8
>>> 
>>> versions after refreshing you browser you may need to remove the "www."
>>> 
>>> in the url.  I have no idea why but it seems to work.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Roy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-19 by brian_downunda@...

This is great news. Another big thank you.

Are we likely to see any see benefits from this new setting for older printers, like the 3880, 3800, R3000, R2880, R2000, R1900? Will a curve that is linear at the old 2880 setting still be linear at the new, or do we have to create new curves / relinearise?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-19 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

> On Jan 19, 2018, at 5:35 AM, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Are we likely to see any see benefits from this new setting for older printers, like the 3880, 3800, R3000, R2880, R2000, R1900?

38xx do not have super but the small formats (13”) do. IMO, the 38s and up could use it as well as this would help resolve the cross-hatch dither problem that happens with Ordered on gray flat areas like dark sky, etc. (fixed with Eventone Hybrid dither but that is no part of current QTR code-base).

Best,
Walker






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-19 by David Aimone

Any fixes likely with Epson P800 banding using QTR?

David Aimone
david@aimonephoto.com

http://www.aimonephoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jan 19, 2018, at 11:38 AM, 'forums@...' forums@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jan 19, 2018, at 5:35 AM, brian_downunda@... <mailto:brian_downunda@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Are we likely to see any see benefits from this new setting for older printers, like the 3880, 3800, R3000, R2880, R2000, R1900?
> 
> 38xx do not have super but the small formats (13”) do. IMO, the 38s and up could use it as well as this would help resolve the cross-hatch dither problem that happens with Ordered on gray flat areas like dark sky, etc.. (fixed with Eventone Hybrid dither but that is no part of current QTR code-base).
> 
> Best,
> Walker
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-19 by Roy Harrington

A couple comments about the new "2880 super"; selection.

The larger Pro printers are not affected including 3800, 3880, and all 4000 and up printers.
The printers with this additional option are:
R2400, R2880, R3000, P600, P800
1400, 1430, R800, R1800, R1900, R2000 (which could also be P400, thanks Walker).

--------

For those interested:
There are two major functions in the driver that get talked about a lot:

1) Dithering (Ordered, Hybrid etc) determines which positions on the page get a drop of ink. At any
particular resolution there are fixed locations which may or may not get a drop of ink. Its kind of like
a huge sheet of graph paper at say 2880x1440dpi. Dithering assigns drops to locations -- yes or no.

2) Weaving is a completely separate function that determines which jet in the head will lay down that
drop of ink. With 180 jets per ink there are a gazillion possibilities - think: in a sq in you have about 4 million
positions, each one could have a different jet, times 8 inks, times total size of paper. Physically
many of these are not possible since jets can only hit some locations in a pass.

Theoretically this should not make any difference. But because of manufacturing variations all jets
are not identical and even quite small differences can be seen if many mis-sized, mis-positioned jets
and drops are all lined up. This is what you see when you see banding. Our eyes are incredibly
capable of picking this sort of thing up.

So weaving is the process that comes to the rescue. It organizes passes such that all 180 jets are
always used but the image is slowly formed using different jets for drops close to each other. If there's
a jet that's a little off its drops will not be seen near each other so banding patterns with not build up.

It's a complicated and memory intensive algorithm. The Pro printers have this implemented inside
the actual printer -- so Epson code and not controlled by the driver i.e. QTR driver. The small printers
though have this done in the driver itself so QTR driver can vary this algorithm.

----

So the "2880 dpi" and "2880 super" selections are both 2880x1440dpi layouts -- the graph paper locations.
No difference in the dither at all. All the positions for drops of ink are the same.
The difference is the weave. Double the number of passes and first pass for a set of drop positions can
leave half of the potential drops off. A pass (many later) will eventually fill in all those left out positions
using a different jet. This cuts down the likelihood of banding but incurs the cost of more time for the
extra passes. The top and bottom ends of the paper are affected more, each printer varies a bit,
and your particular workflow may vary. So this is something for each to try and see if its worth it.

Roy


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, David Aimone daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Any fixes likely with Epson P800 banding using QTR?


On Jan 19, 2018, at 11:38 AM, 'forums@walkerblackwell.com' forums@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



> On Jan 19, 2018, at 5:35 AM, brian_downunda@yahoo.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Are we likely to see any see benefits from this new setting for older printers, like the 3880, 3800, R3000, R2880, R2000, R1900?

38xx do not have super but the small formats (13”) do. IMO, the 38s and up could use it as well as this would help resolve the cross-hatch dither problem that happens with Ordered on gray flat areas like dark sky, etc.. (fixed with Eventone Hybrid dither but that is no part of current QTR code-base).

Best,
Walker

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-19 by brian_downunda@...

Thanks, that's helpful. I have probably read some of that material before somewhere and then forgotten it.

In the rather hot (38C) light of a new day I should probably install this and try it before commenting too much further, but there are a couple of things that surprise me. The P800 is lumped in with the desktop printers, whereas its predecessor is regarded as a Pro printer. Why is this?

"The top and bottom ends of the paper are affected more" - this sounds like the micro-banding in the first and last inch problem is worse rather than better. It would have been good if this super mode solved it. I will test.

I had assumed that the P800 (which I don't own) didn't suffer the micro-banding in the first and last inch problem, being the successor to the 3880, but all this suggests that perhaps it does?


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <roy@...> wrote :

A couple comments about the new "2880 super" selection.

The larger Pro printers are not affected including 3800, 3880, and all 4000 and up printers.
The printers with this additional option are:
R2400, R2880, R3000, P600, P800
1400, 1430, R800, R1800, R1900, R2000 (which could also be P400, thanks Walker).

--------

For those interested:
There are two major functions in the driver that get talked about a lot:

1) Dithering (Ordered, Hybrid etc) determines which positions on the page get a drop of ink. At any
particular resolution there are fixed locations which may or may not get a drop of ink. Its kind of like
a huge sheet of graph paper at say 2880x1440dpi. Dithering assigns drops to locations -- yes or no.

2) Weaving is a completely separate function that determines which jet in the head will lay down that
drop of ink. With 180 jets per ink there are a gazillion possibilities - think: in a sq in you have about 4 million
positions, each one could have a different jet, times 8 inks, times total size of paper. Physically
many of these are not possible since jets can only hit some locations in a pass.

Theoretically this should not make any difference. But because of manufacturing variations all jets
are not identical and even quite small differences can be seen if many mis-sized, mis-positioned jets
and drops are all lined up. This is what you see when you see banding. Our eyes are incredibly
capable of picking this sort of thing up.

So weaving is the process that comes to the rescue. It organizes passes such that all 180 jets are
always used but the image is slowly formed using different jets for drops close to each other. If there's
a jet that's a little off its drops will not be seen near each other so banding patterns with not build up.

It's a complicated and memory intensive algorithm. The Pro printers have this implemented inside
the actual printer -- so Epson code and not controlled by the driver i.e. QTR driver. The small printers
though have this done in the driver itself so QTR driver can vary this algorithm.

----

So the "2880 dpi" and "2880 super" selections are both 2880x1440dpi layouts -- the graph paper locations.
No difference in the dither at all. All the positions for drops of ink are the same.
The difference is the weave. Double the number of passes and first pass for a set of drop positions can
leave half of the potential drops off. A pass (many later) will eventually fill in all those left out positions
using a different jet. This cuts down the likelihood of banding but incurs the cost of more time for the
extra passes. The top and bottom ends of the paper are affected more, each printer varies a bit,
and your particular workflow may vary. So this is something for each to try and see if its worth it.

Roy

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-20 by brian_downunda@...

I just ran a test on my R1900 and the answer is no, it's much the same. I'd expect the same answer for the 1430.

Does the P800 also have this micro-banding in the first and last ink problem? You'd think not, as it's the successor to the 3880 which didn't, but Roy's earlier comments cast doubt on this.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <andrey@...> wrote :

Roy, thanks for the information and new software! Does the 2880 super option help with the banding problems on the top and bottom inch of a page on the 1430?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-20 by Roy Harrington



On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:54 PM, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Thanks, that's helpful. I have probably read some of that material before somewhere and then forgotten it.

In the rather hot (38C) light of a new day I should probably install this and try it before commenting too much further, but there are a couple of things that surprise me. The P800 is lumped in with the desktop printers, whereas its predecessor is regarded as a Pro printer. Why is this?

I was initially surprised too. But basically this is just what Epson decided to do. Probably cheaper. The old 3800 and 3880 were
in their own space between desktop and Pro printers -- some of each in the features. So it appears to me that the P800
is for the most part a bigger P600 rather than in its own category.

"The top and bottom ends of the paper are affected more" - this sounds like the micro-banding in the first and last inch problem is worse rather than better. It would have been good if this super mode solved it. I will test.

I had assumed that the P800 (which I don't own) didn't suffer the micro-banding in the first and last inch problem, being the successor to the 3880, but all this suggests that perhaps it does?

The top/bottom issues are due to mechanical issues of holding the paper. At ends of sheet you only get to hold the
paper from one side so weave ends up using fewer jets -- so more likely banding. This of course varies by printer. It's a potential
issue regardless of who does the weaving code. But when the code is internal to printer Epson has probably customized
it for different printers so in general its been good enough not to see a problem. However with QTR driver there's pretty
much one weave algorithm for all printers (after all I don't have all printers and don't have the resources to do different
things for each printer type).
All this is a matter of degree -- is it good enough to not see banding. It's not a "there or not there" thing.

The new 2880 super will do more passes so ought to be better -- but it's all a matter of how much. Only your
printer, your workflow and your eyes can say what you will conclude.

Roy





--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-20 by Roy Harrington

Hi Brian

That's disappointing and surprising.
It ought to be somewhat different. I wonder if its possible that somehow it
didn't get enabled. It should be very noticeably slower since twice as many passes.
I think you are on Windows, right? Could you try both kinds of 2880 to see make sure the new one is
much slower that the old? That should verify that you are getting the new code enabled.

Thanks
Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:39 AM, brian_downunda@yahoo.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I just ran a test on my R1900 and the answer is no, it's much the same. I'd expect the same answer for the 1430.

Does the P800 also have this micro-banding in the first and last ink problem? You'd think not, as it's the successor to the 3880 which didn't, but Roy's earlier comments cast doubt on this.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Roy, thanks for the information and new software! Does the 2880 super option help with the banding problems on the top and bottom inch of a page on the 1430?






--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-20 by brian_downunda@...

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by Walker Blackwell

I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.

Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . . . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.

W


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by Walker Blackwell

Meant small formats though.

Pxxxx still have weave internal.

W
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:13 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.

Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . . . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.

W



On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.

Re: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by David Aimone

After having an Epson 4900, I actually love my P800, better than the 4900 in many ways.  It just doesn’t play nice QTR :(  patterning across the image in the mid to highlight tones.

David Aimone
david@... <mailto:david@...>

http://www.aimonephoto.com <http://www.aimonephoto.com/>
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jan 20, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Walker Blackwell forums@walkerblackwell.com <mailto:forums@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Meant small formats though.
> 
> Pxxxx still have weave internal.
> 
> W
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:13 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@walkerblackwell.com <mailto:forums@...>> wrote:
> I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.
> 
> Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . .. . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.
> 
> W
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... <mailto:brian_downunda@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>  
> I am fairly certain that super was enabled.  As you say, it was a lot slower.
> 
> What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible.  I thought that would be a worst-case scenario.  In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.
> 
> I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing.  You've explained that very well before.  It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver.  Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800..  
> 
> I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s.  I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.
> 
> 
>

Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by brian_downunda@...

OK, now I'm confused. Both Roy and Walker say that the P800 weaving code is in the driver rather than the firmware. Walker says that there's no first and last inch banding problem. Roy - I seem to recall that you have a P800 - I take it that you don't get it either?

How is this possible? I thought that all printers where the weaving code is in the driver have this problem?


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <forums@...> wrote :

I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.

Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . . . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.

W


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.

Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by brian_downunda@...

Further to my previous response, I've done some testing with an image printed at both settings. I confirm my earlier conclusions. For my R1900, 2880 Super doesn't significantly improve the first and last inch micro-banding problem. Looking carefully under a loupe, you might say that they're possibly slightly different patterns, but it's hard to be sure and I couldn't say that one is better or worse than the other.

It's been a while since I either deliberately or accidentally triggered this phenomenon, but what I recall is that whether the effect is readily noticeable to the naked eye is image-dependent. For the image I used for this comparison, it's not really noticeable without a loupe. I guess for an image where it is, 2880 Super perhaps might make a difference, although from what I've just seen under a loupe, I doubt it for this printer.

In terms of the R1430 that andreyew asked about, I confess I don't know. Based on what Roy said, I guess it's possible that for some desktop printers, the standard weave code may be closer to the Epson code than it is for my R1900. Roy's explanation also implied that it could vary from one instance of a particular model to another.

So I'm left with taping on a lead sheet if I want to print in the first inch on the R1900, and lying to QTR about the paper length if I want to print in the last inch.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by Roy Harrington

Hi Brian

As far as the where the weaving is, I'm the one who figured out how the Epson driver worked with the P800 and then
made the QTR driver work in the same basic way. So where the weave is is pretty clear.

What the effect of that is much more subjective. Whether or not you see banding is totally your observation on your setup.
Weaving algorithm is different at top of sheet regardless of being in printer or driver, but it';s certainly possible and likely
that some situations work better than others.

I've actually had several reports that the P800 has been improved with the new code so maybe something about
that printer is just a little bit better. It seems though that previous printers aren't helped at much.
Anybody have a P600? I wonder what the prognosis of that one is.

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:59 PM, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


OK, now I'm confused. Both Roy and Walker say that the P800 weaving code is in the driver rather than the firmware. Walker says that there's no first and last inch banding problem. Roy - I seem to recall that you have a P800 - I take it that you don't get it either?

How is this possible? I thought that all printers where the weaving code is in the driver have this problem?


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.

Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . . . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.

W



On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It9;s just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.






--
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-21 by Walker Blackwell

P600 and P800 print exactly the same at 2880 (on paper) even though the nozzle size of the P600 is just slightly smaller.

Best,
Walker
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 2:02 PM Roy Harrington roy@...m [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Brian

As far as the where the weaving is, I'm the one who figured out how the Epson driver worked with the P800 and then
made the QTR driver work in the same basic way. So where the weave is is pretty clear.

What the effect of that is much more subjective. Whether or not you see banding is totally your observation on your setup.
Weaving algorithm is different at top of sheet regardless of being in printer or driver, but it's certainly possible and likely
that some situations work better than others.

I've actually had several reports that the P800 has been improved with the new code so maybe something about
that printer is just a little bit better. It seems though that previous printers aren't helped at much.
Anybody have a P600? I wonder what the prognosis of that one is.

Roy


On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:59 PM, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <;QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


OK, now I'm confused. Both Roy and Walker say that the P800 weaving code is in the driver rather than the firmware. Walker says that there's no first and last inch banding problem. Roy - I seem to recall that you have a P800 - I take it that you don't get it either?

How is this possible? I thought that all printers where the weaving code is in the driver have this problem?


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I don’t see first last issues with P800 FYI.

Epson has moved to in-driver weave for some reason on all of these printers. Me thinks because they don’t have to spend as much on ram for the printer . . . or maybe so they can upgrade the weave later on . . . or most likely so non-sanctioned rips can’t use their weave.

W



On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I am fairly certain that super was enabled. As you say, it was a lot slower.

What I did to test this was to create a smooth block of tone 64 (/ 255) two inches high and the width of the paper, and print it at both settings as close to the leading edge as possible. I thought that would be a worst-case scenario. In light of your comments perhaps I should try some real world (apologies to the late Bruce Fraser) examples.

I understand the whole weaving code in the firmware vs in the driver thing. You've explained that very well before. It's just that this is the first time that I've read anywhere that the P800 has it in the driver. Given that, I'm surprised that there haven't been any reports of the first and last inch problems for the P800.

I'm also rather relieved that I made the decision to purchase one of the last 3880s in this country a few years back, rather than one of the first P800s. I'm also more likely to pay for an expensive repair should it need one (e.g. MK/PK swtich) than ditch it for a P800.






--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by jthacker@...

Roy,
Does the 2.7.8 version still support the K7 printers? I just finished speaking with a friend and he said he was not able to find a quad3880-K7 printer or its install command.
John

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by Roy Harrington

Piezo maintains there own profiles now.
Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 5:04 PM, jthacker@pacbell.net [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Roy,
Does the 2.7.8 version still support the K7 printers? I just finished speaking with a friend and he said he was not able to find a quad3880-K7 printer or its install command.
John





--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by Walker Blackwell

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:09 PM Roy Harrington roy@harrington.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Piezo maintains there own profiles now.
Roy


On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 5:04 PM, jthacker@pacbell.net [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Roy,
Does the 2.7.8 version still support the K7 printers? I just finished speaking with a friend and he said he was not able to find a quad3880-K7 printer or its install command.
John





--
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
www.harrington.com

Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by andrey@...

Brian, thanks for trying that out on your printer. I just did the same on my 1430 running Paul Roark's inks, and the microbanding problem is still there.

Here's link to a JPEG taken on an iPhone with the flash on that shows the problem on 2.7.7 and 2.7.8:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/52lq8gmj0e11l16/microbanding.JPG?dl=0

Be sure to view the JPEG at 1:1 to avoid any scaling artifacts.

I used PrintTool 1.1.0 on OS X Sierra, and 2.7.8 was printed with 2880 super, while 2.7.7 was printed with 2880. 2880 super was noticeably slower. The grey rectangle was made in Photoshop with L=25, so it should be the same as your 64/255 test.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by jthacker@...

Walker,
Thanks
Looks like the community edition installs the curves. I'm asking about the printer quad3880-K7. Is that printer get defined using the install apps? I find the quad3880-K7 printer in the 2.7.7 version. I have not installed the 2.7.8 version as I don't have one of the new printers.
Cheers,
John

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

As Roy has stated (on this forum as well as on the update notes for 2.7.8) QTR is no longer shipping with Piezography curves. There are many reasons for that but the main reason is that we frequently update our Piezography curve library and don’t want to constantly bug Roy to distribute these frequent changes. All ink/printer combos that we support (or have ever supported) are available through piezography.com in the downloads section including the Quad3880-K7. Instead of the Piezography curves living in >QuadtoneRIP>Profiles>(the curve folder) they will live in >Piezography>Curve>(the curve folder). This has actually been the case for two years. Coupled with the Piezo curves is The Piezography Manual which has gone through an update (and is still going through updates). This is recommended reading for people starting out with Piezography and also has handy tips on QuadtoneRIP itself.

//

Not distributing Piezo curves through QTR also helps to differentiate Piezography (our ink) from QuadtoneRIP (the software). QuadtoneRIP is made and owned by Roy Harrington. At Piezography our customers use this rip as the main driver for their ink on Epson printers and we support its usage the best we can in that regard. We get daily questions about why X in the software doesn’t work like Y and “why can’t you do Z with it.” The answer is always that we are not the creators of the software. It’s harder to explain this to customers when our curves are part of that install though.

For anyone who just got their ink, follow these steps to get set up workflow-wise for piezo: https://piezography.com/technical-support/ <https://piezography.com/technical-support/>

//

Another note: the normal Install.command workflow (that is standard for QuadtoneRIP) is the main Mac way to install Piezography printers. If this is new to you, read this page: https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/ <https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/> On the PC side, the Piezography curve installers install ALL the piezography ink/printer curves right into the QuadTone curve folder at once.

Best,
Walker

Ps: Last night I had a couple of emails that the Mac Piezography Community Edition dmg was not working. On further inspection I found out that making a dmg in High Sierra is no longer backwards compatible with older systems (that’s a first). I have since found a different solution for making a .dmg file and the Mac version of Community Edition is working again at: https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition <https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition>




> On Jan 21, 2018, at 10:47 PM, jthacker@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Walker,
> 
> Thanks
> Looks like the community edition installs the curves. I'm asking about the printer quad3880-K7. Is that printer get defined using the install apps? I find the quad3880-K7  printer in the 2.7.7 version. I have not installed the 2.7.8 version as I don't have one of the new printers.
> Cheers,
> John
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by John Thacker

Walker,Thanks for the clarification. It is greatly appreciated. And thanks for the links.
One other question: I'm a windows user as well as a Mac user (two different jobs), does Piezography support the 2.7.8 version and K7 printers? Simple yes or no will be fine.

John 

    On Monday, January 22, 2018 6:41 AM, "'forums@...' forums@... [QuadtoneRIP]" <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

     As Roy has stated (on this forum as well as on the update notes for 2.7.8) QTR is no longer shipping with Piezography curves. There are many reasons for that but the main reason is that we frequently update our Piezography curve library and don’t want to constantly bug Roy to distribute these frequent changes. All ink/printer combos that we support (or have ever supported) are available through piezography.com in the downloads section including the Quad3880-K7. Instead of the Piezography curves living in >QuadtoneRIP>Profiles>(the curve folder) they will live in >Piezography>Curve>(the curve folder). This has actually been the case for two years. Coupled with the Piezo curves is The Piezography Manual which has gone through an update (and is still going through updates). This is recommended reading for people starting out with Piezography and also has handy tips on QuadtoneRIP itself.

//

Not distributing Piezo curves through QTR also helps to differentiate Piezography (our ink) from QuadtoneRIP (the software). QuadtoneRIP is made and owned by Roy Harrington. At Piezography our customers use this rip as the main driver for their ink on Epson printers and we support its usage the best we can in that regard. We get daily questions about why X in the software doesn’t work like Y and “why can’t you do Z with it..” The answer is always that we are not the creators of the software. It’s harder to explain this to customers when our curves are part of that install though.

For anyone who just got their ink, follow these steps to get set up workflow-wise for piezo: https://piezography.com/technical-support/ <https://piezography.com/technical-support/>

//

Another note: the normal Install.command workflow (that is standard for QuadtoneRIP) is the main Mac way to install Piezography printers. If this is new to you, read this page: https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/ <https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/> On the PC side, the Piezography curve installers install ALL the piezography ink/printer curves right into the QuadTone curve folder at once.

Best,
Walker

Ps: Last night I had a couple of emails that the Mac Piezography Community Edition dmg was not working. On further inspection I found out that making a dmg in High Sierra is no longer backwards compatible with older systems (that’s a first). I have since found a different solution for making a .dmg file and the Mac version of Community Edition is working again at: https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition <https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition>

> On Jan 21, 2018, at 10:47 PM, jthacker@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Walker,
> 
> Thanks
> Looks like the community edition installs the curves. I'm asking about the printer quad3880-K7. Is that printer get defined using the install apps? I find the quad3880-K7 printer in the 2.7.7 version. I have not installed the 2.7.8 version as I don't have one of the new printers.
> Cheers,
> John
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadToneRIP version 2.7.8 is now available

2018-01-22 by Walker Blackwell

Yes

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:00 PM John Thacker jthacker@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

Walker,
Thanks for the clarification. It is greatly appreciated. And thanks for the links.

One other question: I'm a windows user as well as a Mac user (two different jobs), does Piezography support the 2.7.8 version and K7 printers? Simple yes or no will be fine.

John


On Monday, January 22, 2018 6:41 AM, "'forums@...' forums@walkerblackwell.com [QuadtoneRIP]" <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


As Roy has stated (on this forum as well as on the update notes for 2.7.8) QTR is no longer shipping with Piezography curves. There are many reasons for that but the main reason is that we frequently update our Piezography curve library and don’t want to constantly bug Roy to distribute these frequent changes. All ink/printer combos that we support (or have ever supported) are available through piezography.com in the downloads section including the Quad3880-K7. Instead of the Piezography curves living in >QuadtoneRIP>Profiles>(the curve folder) they will live in >Piezography>Curve>(the curve folder). This has actually been the case for two years. Coupled with the Piezo curves is The Piezography Manual which has gone through an update (and is still going through updates). This is recommended reading for people starting out with Piezography and also has handy tips on QuadtoneRIP itself.

//

Not distributing Piezo curves through QTR also helps to differentiate Piezography (our ink) from QuadtoneRIP (the software). QuadtoneRIP is made and owned by Roy Harrington. At Piezography our customers use this rip as the main driver for their ink on Epson printers and we support its usage the best we can in that regard. We get daily questions about why X in the software doesn’t work like Y and “why can’t you do Z with it...” The answer is always that we are not the creators of the software. It’s harder to explain this to customers when our curves are part of that install though.

For anyone who just got their ink, follow these steps to get set up workflow-wise for piezo: https://piezography.com/technical-support/ <https://piezography.com/technical-support/>

//

Another note: the normal Install.command workflow (that is standard for QuadtoneRIP) is the main Mac way to install Piezography printers. If this is new to you, read this page: https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/ <https://piezography.com/install-delete-quadtonerip-curves/> On the PC side, the Piezography curve installers install ALL the piezography ink/printer curves right into the QuadTone curve folder at once.

Best,
Walker

Ps: Last night I had a couple of emails that the Mac Piezography Community Edition dmg was not working. On further inspection I found out that making a dmg in High Sierra is no longer backwards compatible with older systems (that’s a first). I have since found a different solution for making a .dmg file and the Mac version of Community Edition is working again at: https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition <https://piezography.com/downloads/piezography-community-edition>



> On Jan 21, 2018, at 10:47 PM, jthacker@pacbell.net [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Walker,
>
> Thanks
> Looks like the community edition installs the curves. I'm asking about the printer quad3880-K7. Is that printer get defined using the install apps? I find the quad3880-K7 printer in the 2.7.7 version. I have not installed the 2.7.8 version as I don't have one of the new printers.
> Cheers,
> John
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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