QTR-Quadtone RIP

I posted this on the B/W group and received no repsonse, though someone helpfully 
directed me here. I hope this question doesn't seem too "first grade":

I use a 2200 with Mac OS X, using K2/Eboni with either BO or QTR (with which I am a 
complete beginner). I've read a few threads where people mention using the ink limit 
adjustment with certain papers...how do you know which papers benefit and by how much 
to pull back or add? I use mostly EEM/HPR.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't really understand the tool. Is there someplace I can read 
about it someone could direct me to? I have read Roy Harrington's .pdf for QTR and am 
still unsure when or why to use this.
 
Thanks for any clarification someone might offer!
Sarah

Sarah

The qtrgui help file says the following about the Ink Limit Adjustment 
Slider:

"Ink Limit effects the darkness of the shadows. Reducing Ink Limit can 
help unblock shadows"

I believe it controls the amount of black and possibly dark grey ink 
that is put down. In theory, if your curves are good, then you shouldn't 
need to use it but you might have certain images that might benefit from 
either lighter or darker shadows (although I would prefer to adjust them 
in Photoshop).

Another use is if you wish to use a curve that was designed for 1440dpi 
resolution that you wish to use at 2880dpi. The latter puts down a lot 
more ink so the slider can be reduced by a large amount to compensate.

You might also wish to try a paper that you don't have a curve for - you 
could use a curve for another similar paper but alter this slider if you 
find too much/too little ink is being put down. Evidence for too much 
ink would include mottling in the dark areas, the print being wet or 
reduction in dmax in the darkest areas. Evidence of too little ink would 
be overall lightness of print or not achieving the dmax that you would 
expect.

It's really one of those things you have to try out with a few test 
prints to better understand what it does.

regards
Howard

sagaface wrote:

> I posted this on the B/W group and received no repsonse, though someone 
> helpfully
> directed me here. I hope this question doesn't seem too "first grade":
> 
> I use a 2200 with Mac OS X, using K2/Eboni with either BO or QTR (with 
> which I am a
> complete beginner). I've read a few threads where people mention using 
> the ink limit
> adjustment with certain papers...how do you know which papers benefit 
> and by how much
> to pull back or add? I use mostly EEM/HPR.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is I don't really understand the tool. Is there 
> someplace I can read
> about it someone could direct me to? I have read Roy Harrington's .pdf 
> for QTR and am
> still unsure when or why to use this.
> 
> Thanks for any clarification someone might offer!
> Sarah
>

Howard, thanks so much for the post. I'm starting to get the idea finally!

best,
Sarah






--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:

>
> Sarah
> 
> The qtrgui help file says the following about the Ink Limit Adjustment 
> Slider:
> 
> "Ink Limit effects the darkness of the shadows. Reducing Ink Limit can 
> help unblock shadows"
> 
> I believe it controls the amount of black and possibly dark grey ink 
> that is put down. In theory, if your curves are good, then you shouldn't 
> need to use it but you might have certain images that might benefit from 
> either lighter or darker shadows (although I would prefer to adjust them 
> in Photoshop).
> 
> Another use is if you wish to use a curve that was designed for 1440dpi 
> resolution that you wish to use at 2880dpi. The latter puts down a lot 
> more ink so the slider can be reduced by a large amount to compensate.
> 
> You might also wish to try a paper that you don't have a curve for - you 
> could use a curve for another similar paper but alter this slider if you 
> find too much/too little ink is being put down. Evidence for too much 
> ink would include mottling in the dark areas, the print being wet or 
> reduction in dmax in the darkest areas. Evidence of too little ink would 
> be overall lightness of print or not achieving the dmax that you would 
> expect.
> 
> It's really one of those things you have to try out with a few test 
> prints to better understand what it does.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> sagaface wrote:
> > I posted this on the B/W group and received no repsonse, though someone 
> > helpfully
> > directed me here. I hope this question doesn't seem too "first grade":
> > 
> > I use a 2200 with Mac OS X, using K2/Eboni with either BO or QTR (with 
> > which I am a
> > complete beginner). I've read a few threads where people mention using 
> > the ink limit
> > adjustment with certain papers...how do you know which papers benefit 
> > and by how much
> > to pull back or add? I use mostly EEM/HPR.
> > 
> > I guess what I'm saying is I don't really understand the tool. Is there 
> > someplace I can read
> > about it someone could direct me to? I have read Roy Harrington's .pdf 
> > for QTR and am
> > still unsure when or why to use this.
> > 
> > Thanks for any clarification someone might offer!
> > Sarah
> >
>

Hi all,
First time posting here.  I always seem to be several months behind the 
curve (heh) on b&w printing, so I went back to the beginning of this 
mailing list and read almost every post up in the archive.  Tiring, but 
I think I actually know how one is supposed to use QTR now.  Kinda.

So I found out that I am "supposed" to be using the RGB Photo profile if 
I"m printing to file in Qimage, right?  Previously, I had not been.  I'd 
been happy with the results, but figured I should try and see it went 
using things "correctly."

Well, now I'm getting a LOT of bronzing on the Kirkland glossy paper. 
Is it correct to assume that this is just because I don't have a profile 
for the paper and I need to adjust the ink limit?

just making sure.
allan

I just realized (via a response on the BW list) that I forgot to say 
that it's a 1280 with the ut2 set.

thanks,
allan

Allan Chen wrote:
> Hi all,
> First time posting here.  I always seem to be several months behind the
> curve (heh) on b&w printing, so I went back to the beginning of this
> mailing list and read almost every post up in the archive.  Tiring, but
> I think I actually know how one is supposed to use QTR now.  Kinda.
> 
> So I found out that I am "supposed" to be using the RGB Photo profile if
> I"m printing to file in Qimage, right?  Previously, I had not been.  I'd
> been happy with the results, but figured I should try and see it went
> using things "correctly."
> 
> Well, now I'm getting a LOT of bronzing on the Kirkland glossy paper.
> Is it correct to assume that this is just because I don't have a profile
> for the paper and I need to adjust the ink limit?
> 
> just making sure.
> allan
> 
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-- 
http://allan.kaiyen.com
http://photos.kaiyen.com

Allan, I don't know 1280 and UT, but I experience very little bronzing
on Kirkland using 2200, OEM pigments, and QTR.

Try reducing the QTR "ink limit"...it's a seat-of-pants adjustment,
you just have to play with it. 

I don't know UT2, but if it has yellow in it you need to eliminate it
entirely using QTR's curves (just blacks, cyan, magenta) if you want
minimum bronzing. My QTR curves use zero yellow with Epson's full
color OEM inkset and my Kirkland glossy bronzing almost rivals 2400
glossy.

Djon

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Allan Chen <allan@...> wrote:

>
> I just realized (via a response on the BW list) that I forgot to say 
> that it's a 1280 with the ut2 set.
> 
> thanks,
> allan
>

Well, the likely issue then is that I need to find a profile that will 
reduce the amount of yellow that is coming out, at least until I can 
create my own curves.

I was just curious.  The good news is that finally doing things 
(roughly) the "right" way has given me matte prints that give me what 
I've wanted all along...

allan

djon43 wrote:
> Allan, I don't know 1280 and UT, but I experience very little bronzing
> on Kirkland using 2200, OEM pigments, and QTR.
> 
> Try reducing the QTR "ink limit"...it's a seat-of-pants adjustment,
> you just have to play with it.
> 
> I don't know UT2, but if it has yellow in it you need to eliminate it
> entirely using QTR's curves (just blacks, cyan, magenta) if you want
> minimum bronzing. My QTR curves use zero yellow with Epson's full
> color OEM inkset and my Kirkland glossy bronzing almost rivals 2400
> glossy.
> 
> Djon
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Allan Chen <allan@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > I just realized (via a response on the BW list) that I forgot to say
>  > that it's a 1280 with the ut2 set.
>  >
>  > thanks,
>  > allan
>  > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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>        
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> 

-- 
http://allan.kaiyen.com
http://photos.kaiyen.com

When did you buy your UT2 inks? The base used to mix the inks was changed
last year and the new base reduces bronzing significantly. Unfortunately MIS
kept quiet about the change and didn't mark the new inks differently in any
way. I switched from the old UT7 inks to the new ones in my 2100 and the
prints are just so much better on glossy papers it's like working with a
completely different inkset.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> I just realized (via a response on the BW list) that I forgot to 
> say that it's a 1280 with the ut2 set.

I forgot to mention that.  Yes, I am on the older base.  I was just 
surprised that bronzing would go up that much.

I'm almost out of them so I'll be upgrading soon.  I just can't afford 
to go and buy new ink when I have some left.

thanks for the reminder,
allan

Daniel Staver wrote:
> When did you buy your UT2 inks? The base used to mix the inks was changed
> last year and the new base reduces bronzing significantly. Unfortunately MIS
> kept quiet about the change and didn't mark the new inks differently in any
> way. I switched from the old UT7 inks to the new ones in my 2100 and the
> prints are just so much better on glossy papers it's like working with a
> completely different inkset.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
>  > I just realized (via a response on the BW list) that I forgot to
>  > say that it's a 1280 with the ut2 set.
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
http://allan.kaiyen.com
http://photos.kaiyen.com