QTR-Quadtone RIP

I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading the 
user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve.  I've printed 
and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure which 
100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink.  The 
example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.

I've also tried to search through the posts on this group but have not 
found specific information about how to do this.  Does anyone know of 
any furtrher documentation or user written instruction about how to 
profile the R2400 using this inkset?  Any assistance would be greatly 
appreciated.

Kevin

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" <bradford@...> wrote:
>
> I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading the 
> user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve.  I've printed 
> and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure which 
> 100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink.  The 
> example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.
> 
> I've also tried to search through the posts on this group but have not 
> found specific information about how to do this.  Does anyone know of 
> any furtrher documentation or user written instruction about how to 
> profile the R2400 using this inkset?  Any assistance would be greatly 
> appreciated.
> 
> Kevin
>

Count me in too, I have exactly the same problem.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" <bradford@...> wrote:
>
> I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading the 
> user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve.  I've printed 
> and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure which 
> 100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink.  The 
> example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.

I believe you need to determine the density of LK and LLK relative to
black, as that's what you'll be entering into the density box in the
curve editor.

Thanks for your reply John.  I'll redo my curve using 100% LLK to black,
then 100%LK to black and try again.   My first attempt at printing the
21 step tablet with the "neutral" curve I was trying to create had very
cool light tones and very warm dark tones.    I was also using the
Ilford neutral cool profile as a template and left in the linerization
information when I created that profile.  Perhaps I should wipe the
slate clean and create the curve with no linerization.

BTW, I am trying to profile Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl.  When I have the
process down I'll try profiling Museo Silver Rag.  I too  will share the
results whey they are done.

Kevin

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jkohn_home" <jkohn@...> wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" bradford@ wrote:
> >
> > I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading the
> > user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve.  I've
printed
> > and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure
which
> > 100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink. 
The

> > example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.
>
> I believe you need to determine the density of LK and LLK relative to
> black, as that's what you'll be entering into the density box in the
> curve editor.
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" <bradford@...> 
wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply John.  I'll redo my curve using 100% LLK to 
black,
> then 100%LK to black and try again.   My first attempt at printing the
> 21 step tablet with the "neutral" curve I was trying to create had 
very
> cool light tones and very warm dark tones.    I was also using the
> Ilford neutral cool profile as a template and left in the linerization
> information when I created that profile.  Perhaps I should wipe the
> slate clean and create the curve with no linerization.

I would recommend clearing the linearization data while working on your 
custom curve, and then doing a new linearization as your final step.

The existing IlfordSmPearl curves are some very good template for 
profiling
the R2400 (or any of the K3 printers for that matter.  The ink limits 
will all be
reasonable and the relative densities of K, LK, and LLK are already 
done.
Although the full procedure is what I'd call top down, with existing 
profiles its
often best to start at the bottom and only redo only the last step(s).

The warm profile is the simplest -- just K, LK and LLK.   For different 
papers
just delete the linearization numbers, create a non-linearized profile. 
  Then
print out the stepwedge,  read the values, put into the profile and 
re-create.
You're done.   Graph the curves to see the idea.   Unless a paper is 
particularly
different -- needing more or less ink, this re-linearization is all you 
need.

The next profile to understand is the "neutral-cool".    Here the idea 
is to
neutralize the warm K with C and M, and neutralize LK and LLK with LC 
and LM.
See how this works in the Graph.   If the tone is OK with you, just 
re-linearize.
If you want to adjust color tone, do the highlights first -- adjust LC 
and LM ink limits
depending on which way you want to go.  Once the highlights are done go 
to the
shadows by adjusting C and M ink limits.  You don't need to be real 
fussy with
this because at print time you can blend in the warm profile from 
above.  Error
on the cool side a little so you can blend with the warm.   After the 
color tones
are OK then relinearize.

Finally the two sepia profiles show two approaches for adding even more 
warmth i.e. Y ink.

Roy



On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 12:08  PM, Kevin Bradford wrote:

> From: "Kevin Bradford" <bradford@...>
> Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006  12:08:29  PM US/Pacific
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Profiling Epson R2400 using UC K3 inkset
> Reply-To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
>
> Thanks for your reply John.  I'll redo my curve using 100% LLK to 
> black,
> then 100%LK to black and try again.   My first attempt at printing the
> 21 step tablet with the "neutral" curve I was trying to create had very
> cool light tones and very warm dark tones.    I was also using the
> Ilford neutral cool profile as a template and left in the linerization
> information when I created that profile.  Perhaps I should wipe the
> slate clean and create the curve with no linerization.
>
> BTW, I am trying to profile Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl.  When I have the
> process down I'll try profiling Museo Silver Rag.  I too  will share 
> the
> results whey they are done.
>
> Kevin
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jkohn_home" <jkohn@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" bradford@ wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading the
>>> user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve.  I've
> printed
>>> and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure
> which
>>> 100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink.
> The
>>> example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.
>>
>> I believe you need to determine the density of LK and LLK relative to
>> black, as that's what you'll be entering into the density box in the
>> curve editor.
>>
>
>
-
Roy Harrington
roy@...
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com

Totally valid observation.   Whoever made the profile may have had 
different desires.
My real point is that its much easier to start with something and 
change it as needed and
as you gain more familiarity than it is to start from scratch with no 
idea why you making
certain decisions.

Good luck on the profiles and I hope you can share them with others.

Roy

On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 02:14  PM, Jeff Kohn wrote:

> I have to disagree with you on the Ilford Smooth "warm" profile for 
> the 2400, as I found it really weak giving a DMAX of only about 1.7 or 
> so while I got around 2.3 for mine. The warm profile has the ink 
> densities set too low to use by itself IMHO.
>  
> My very first test print with QTR was using the Ilford Smooth warm 
> profile and I was extremely disappointed with the results, which is 
> what prompted me to create my own custom curves for the papers I 
> intend to use.
>  
> I did use the Ilford Smooth neutral-cool as starting point for my 
> neutral profile for that paper; but I found it too cool for my taste 
> as I'm trying to get as close to neutral as possible. I was also able 
> to achieve a greater DMAX than the neutral-cool profile (2.3 versus 
> 1.97)
>  
> Jeff
>  
>
<image.tiff>
>
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of Roy Harrington
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:36 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Profiling Epson R2400 using UC K3 inkset
>
>
> The existing IlfordSmPearl curves are some very good template for
> profiling
> the R2400 (or any of the K3 printers for that matter. The ink limits
> will all be
> reasonable and the relative densities of K, LK, and LLK are already
> done.
> Although the full procedure is what I'd call top down, with existing
> profiles its
> often best to start at the bottom and only redo only the last step(s).
>
> The warm profile is the simplest -- just K, LK and LLK. For different
> papers
> just delete the linearization numbers, create a non-linearized profile.
> Then
> print out the stepwedge, read the values, put into the profile and
> re-create.
> You're done. Graph the curves to see the idea. Unless a paper is
> particularly
> different -- needing more or less ink, this re-linearization is all you
> need.
>
> The next profile to understand is the "neutral-cool". Here the idea
> is to
> neutralize the warm K with C and M, and neutralize LK and LLK with LC
> and LM.
> See how this works in the Graph. If the tone is OK with you, just
> re-linearize.
> If you want to adjust color tone, do the highlights first -- adjust LC
> and LM ink limits
> depending on which way you want to go. Once the highlights are done go
> to the
> shadows by adjusting C and M ink limits. You don't need to be real
> fussy with
> this because at print time you can blend in the warm profile from
> above. Error
> on the cool side a little so you can blend with the warm. After the
> color tones
> are OK then relinearize.
>
> Finally the two sepia profiles show two approaches for adding even more
> warmth i.e. Y ink.
>
> Roy
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Kevin Bradford wrote:
>
> > From: "Kevin Bradford" <bradford@...>
> > Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 12:08:29 PM US/Pacific
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Profiling Epson R2400 using UC K3 inkset
> > Reply-To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Thanks for your reply John. I'll redo my curve using 100% LLK to
> > black,
> > then 100%LK to black and try again. My first attempt at printing the
> > 21 step tablet with the "neutral" curve I was trying to create had 
> very
> > cool light tones and very warm dark tones. I was also using the
> > Ilford neutral cool profile as a template and left in the 
> linerization
> > information when I created that profile. Perhaps I should wipe the
> > slate clean and create the curve with no linerization.
> >
> > BTW, I am trying to profile Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl. When I have 
> the
> > process down I'll try profiling Museo Silver Rag. I too will share
> > the
> > results whey they are done.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jkohn_home" <jkohn@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Bradford" bradford@ 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm new to the QTR experience and dispite reading and re-reading 
> the
> >>> user guide I am not sure how create my first new curve. I've
> > printed
> >>> and examined the calibration ink pattern page, but I'm not sure
> > which
> >>> 100% black, I should be comparing to which other black/gray ink.
> > The
> >>> example has two black inks, the R2400 has three.
> >>
> >> I believe you need to determine the density of LK and LLK relative 
> to
> >> black, as that's what you'll be entering into the density box in the
> >> curve editor.
> >>
> >
> >
> -
> Roy Harrington
> roy@...
> Black & White Photo Gallery
> http://www.harrington.com
>
> 
-
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com