QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hello everyone,

I am quite new in using QTR with an Epson 4000. I do not find any 
profile for Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl. What equivalent profile in the 
list (and which settings, 1440? Matte or Photo Ink) shall I choose?

I am sorry if my question has been already answered.

Thank you for your help.

Best regards,

JM Humbert

Jean-Marc,

I don't have profiles for the 4000, but I did recently create some for the
2200.  These won't work directly for your printer, but they might give you a
starting point for creating your own.  I just uploaded them to the files
section.  You don't mention what inks you are using, but I assume Epson UC.
You use pk ink with the HFAP but please note that with UC inks you will get
fairly significant bronzing.  I have been able to eliminate a lot of the
bronzing by overcoating the print with MSI gloss optimizer.  I do this as a
second pass after first printing with QTR.

Paul

> 
> I am quite new in using QTR with an Epson 4000. I do not find any
> profile for Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl. What equivalent profile in the
> list (and which settings, 1440? Matte or Photo Ink) shall I choose?
> 
> I am sorry if my question has been already answered.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> JM Humbert
> 

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I also get bronzing using UC inks (Epson 4000) on Premium Lustre. 
Could you please tell me what is MSI gloss optimizer and where can I
get it?

Thanks,
Sheila



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Yesnosky" <pyesnosky@...> wrote:
>
> Jean-Marc,
> 
> I don't have profiles for the 4000, but I did recently create some
for the
> 2200.  These won't work directly for your printer, but they might
give you a
> starting point for creating your own.  I just uploaded them to the files
> section.  You don't mention what inks you are using, but I assume
Epson UC.
> You use pk ink with the HFAP but please note that with UC inks you
will get
> fairly significant bronzing.  I have been able to eliminate a lot of the
> bronzing by overcoating the print with MSI gloss optimizer.  I do
this as a

> second pass after first printing with QTR.
> 
> Paul
> 
> >

> I also get bronzing using UC inks (Epson 4000) on Premium Lustre.
> Could you please tell me what is MSI gloss optimizer and where can I
> get it?
> 

Hi Sheila,

I believe gloss optimizer was introduced on the Epson 1800 printer?  MIS
(inksupply.com) sell their version of the Epson gloss optimizer
(affectionately called GLOP).  Just go to their main page and put GLOP in
the search field.

Some folks on this list fill an empty cartridge (yellow position if you
don't print sepia) with GLOP and either overcoat the whole print or they
build the gloss optimizer into their QTR curves profiles.  Others put the
GLOP in an airbrush and spray their prints.  Some have even dedicated
separate printers for overcoating.  All of this works to varying degrees and
may have become pretty much obsolete with the much better performance of the
K3 (and K4) inks and the new 2400 and x800 printers.

But some folks either prefer this method or (like me) can’t afford to
upgrade from my trusty 2200 to a 2400 so I am sticking with UC inks and I am
trying to minimize bronzing by overcoating with GLOP.  It kind of works and
you'll have to be the judge of whether it produces satisfactory results for
you.  (I'm also going to try Daniel's approach (below) when I get time to
look at his profiles.)

Suggestions for resources:

Daniel Staver uploaded to the group files section some profiles that use
MIS-PRO inks and GLOP in the yellow position.  I believe his profiles lay
down the GLOP at the same time as when you are printing with QTR so there is
no second pass through the printer.  You could use these profiles as
inspiration to get started creating your own for the 4000.

If you want to overcoat on a second pass, just create a block of solid
yellow color in your favorite photo editor that is the size of your printed
image and use the Epson driver to do a second pass overcoat.  You can also
try less than 100% coverage.  That may work in some cases.

Check out the Roark Lab page on the MIS site to read about gloss optimizer
and I believe that's the page where you can order bottles of it.  You will
also need a new empty cartridge with a yellow chip installed.

Read the archives of this group and the "Digital Black and White, the Print"
group.  There are lots of historical posts on GLOP.

Paul

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> separate printers for overcoating.  All of this works to varying degrees
> and
> may have become pretty much obsolete with the much better performance of
> the
> K3 (and K4) inks and the new 2400 and x800 printers.

I can still see some gloss differential in the highlights with these inksets.

The latest UT7 inkset also has very little gloss differential, but I still
like to use glop to take care of the highlights. There are some images
where you can see a really big difference.

> Daniel Staver uploaded to the group files section some profiles that use
> MIS-PRO inks and GLOP in the yellow position.  I believe his profiles lay
> down the GLOP at the same time as when you are printing with QTR so there
> is no second pass through the printer.  You could use these profiles as
> inspiration to get started creating your own for the 4000.

I also have curves for the UT7 inkset with GLOP and Epson Premium
Semigloss here:
http://daniel.staver.no/home/files

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Daniel,

I agree.  GLOP helps a lot with UC but doesn't eliminate it.

I would try UT7 again, but had a bad experience the first time in my 2200.
For some reason ink would bubble up through the vent hole above the sponge
area and it was so bad that ink would pool on top of the cartridge and then
run down the side of the cart and into the printer.  This is probably an
issue with the cartridges and not UT7 itself but until I can be assured that
I'm not going to get pooling ink again, I'm not going back to UT7 and MIS
carts.  To bad, because I like the ink set.  The GLOP isn't so bad because I
can just put an empty in its place and not have to worry about bubbling
over.

Paul

> 
> The latest UT7 inkset also has very little gloss differential, but I still
> like to use glop to take care of the highlights. There are some images
> where you can see a really big difference.
> 
> > Daniel Staver uploaded to the group files section some profiles that use
> > MIS-PRO inks and GLOP in the yellow position.  I believe his profiles
> lay
> > down the GLOP at the same time as when you are printing with QTR so
> there
> > is no second pass through the printer.  You could use these profiles as
> > inspiration to get started creating your own for the 4000.
> 
> I also have curves for the UT7 inkset with GLOP and Epson Premium
> Semigloss here:
> http://daniel.staver.no/home/files
 

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Paul,

I've never heard about this problem with the MIS cartridges before. I've
used them for a long time and have never had that issue. Was that the clear
refillable cartridges with sponges?

They do seem to wear out more quickly than Epson cartridges though. After
severall refills I'm having problems getting good nozzle checks on some of
them, always after removing the cartridges from the printer and putting them
back in. Once I get a good nozzle check it usually stays good until I have
to refill the cartridge again.

I'm going to try a CIS from Mandev now, It uses spongeless cartridges and is
supposed to be easily replacable so I an still switch between BW and color
inks when I want to. 

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> I would try UT7 again, but had a bad experience the first 
> time in my 2200.
> For some reason ink would bubble up through the vent hole 
> above the sponge area and it was so bad that ink would pool 
> on top of the cartridge and then run down the side of the 
> cart and into the printer.  This is probably an issue with 
> the cartridges and not UT7 itself but until I can be assured 
> that I'm not going to get pooling ink again, I'm not going 
> back to UT7 and MIS carts.  To bad, because I like the ink 
> set.  The GLOP isn't so bad because I can just put an empty 
> in its place and not have to worry about bubbling over.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the explanation.  From what you are saying, it sounds like
 GLOP is the same as what the R800 uses for glossy paper?

I wonder if a spray like Premier Art Shield would work also?  Do you
know if anyone has used that?  It would be a lot easier than changing
inks.

Do you know what causes the bronzing?  I printed a large black and
white on a new roll of Premium Lustre, and I could not detect any
bronzing.  But on the previous roll, with a different print, it was
very noticable.  I had not replaced any inks, so it seems like the
paper is the culprit.  I wonder if Epson has made any changes to the
paper to address the problem.

I would prefer not to have to change inks if there is an alternative.

But thanks for the detailed instructions!!

Sheila


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Yesnosky" <pyesnosky@...> wrote:
>
> > I also get bronzing using UC inks (Epson 4000) on Premium Lustre.
> > Could you please tell me what is MSI gloss optimizer and where can I
> > get it?
> > 
> 
> Hi Sheila,
> 
> I believe gloss optimizer was introduced on the Epson 1800 printer?  MIS
> (inksupply.com) sell their version of the Epson gloss optimizer
> (affectionately called GLOP).  Just go to their main page and put
GLOP in
> the search field.

Hi Daniel,

Yes, clear cartridges with 1/2 having a sponge.

Well, I have to admit some of it may be my fault (or the weather) but I'm
not sure.  The first couple of cartridges I completely removed the foil from
the vent hole.  These seem to be more of a problem.  On the ones where I
just uncovered some of the "zig-zag" depression traced in the top of the
cartridge (to open a vent path) instead of removing completely the foil,
have been less problematic, but even those bubble up some amount.

Earlier this summer when I was playing with these cartridges, we were having
a very hot summer with the daytime heat in the 42C+ range so I am suspecting
somehow the ink is swelling in the sponge side of the cartridge and pushing
ink out of the vent hole.  In any case, they created a mess.  As you know,
the Epson cartridges are a different design and don't have these vent holes
and I have never had a problem with them.

In any case, for now I am staying with UC and will play with GLOP some more
to try and minimize the bronzing.  I'm going to try to modify one of my HFAP
profiles I just created to add GLOP during the printing process.

BTW on that subject, I have seen two ways of creating the GLOP curve.  One
way is to create a curve file that is referred to in the curve creation
process (I've seen one called glop.raw).  The other way to do it is to
specify the curve in the curve creation dialog box.  Have you tried both and
which do you prefer?

Thanks much!

Paul

> I've never heard about this problem with the MIS cartridges before. I've
> used them for a long time and have never had that issue. Was that the
> clear
> refillable cartridges with sponges?
> 

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Hi Sheila,

There are several people in this group and the B&W print group (I referred
to in my last email) who spray their prints.  I have not tried it, but the
threads on the group emails say it works.  An archive search should yield
results.

The main knock against this approach is that these sprays can be pretty
nasty (health wise if you breathe them) and some people want to avoid
exposing themselves to these materials.  GLOP can be put down in a printer
so there is no spray to deal with.

Other people are trying Epson K3 or MIS K4 inks in older printers like ours
to try and gain the benefit of inks that are inherently better from a
bronzing and gloss differential perspective.  It's just another way to try
and solve the problem.

As for the reason for bronzing, I am certainly no expert but I believe it
has to do with the interaction of light to pigments of certain colors as
well as the relative reflectivity of the pigments versus the paper itself.
I am sure one of the experts on this list can better explain.  It is very
noticeable on gloss or luster type of papers and it is the paper and ink
combo that magnifies or minimizes the problem.  I have not heard of it being
different from one batch of a certain paper to another but I suppose could
be the case if the paper coating changes from batch to batch.

Paul

> Thanks for the explanation.  From what you are saying, it sounds like
>  GLOP is the same as what the R800 uses for glossy paper?
> 
> I wonder if a spray like Premier Art Shield would work also?  Do you
> know if anyone has used that?  It would be a lot easier than changing
> inks.
> 
> Do you know what causes the bronzing?  I printed a large black and
> white on a new roll of Premium Lustre, and I could not detect any
> bronzing.  But on the previous roll, with a different print, it was
> very noticable.  I had not replaced any inks, so it seems like the
> paper is the culprit.  I wonder if Epson has made any changes to the
> paper to address the problem.
> 
> I would prefer not to have to change inks if there is an alternative.
> 
 

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