QTR-Quadtone RIP

I have an R2400, ordered  Piezography Neutral K7 inkset yesterday, downloaded and  send 
a fee in for the QTR software to my Mac as well.  After the install to the hard drive and 
restart, I see an icon on my Desktop that looks like a piece of paper with the top right 
corner folded down a bit and a picture of my hard drive. Underneath it says 
QuadToneRIP2.43.dmg. In it are all the install components that I originally downloaded. I 
copied the folders named Profiles and Curve Design as well as a PDF named tutorial, an .rtf 
document named QTR license and another item called Diagnosticscript into a seperate 
folder just to be sure they were saved after the install. I tried to load the K7 R2400 folder 
from the profiles folder but received a message saying that a USB connection  is required. I 
don't know if this means USB or USB 2.0 but I am using firewire and so I need to get a new 
cable. 

Presuming that I can get this part to work or at least to install, my question is, where does 
QTR live? I searched my hard drive for QTR and found  several application with QTR in 
their names under something called Eye-One but still can't locate where it is exactly. When 
i connect a USB cable to my 2400 will all become clear or does the software become part 
of photoshop or what? I have never used an RIP, and have always used the ABW driver to 
make prints, which have been really good for the most part but I wanted to try and get the 
best possible prints, hence my interest in the K& inks and QTR.

If anyone can help me understand what I have just downloaded a little better I'd really 
appreciate it.

there seems to be a lot of confusion with this lately.  You really  
wont ever see QTR anywhere on the mac.  It exists as a virtual  
printer that you access via other applications, ie Photoshop.  I  
thought this was fairly clear in the manual when I first installed  
it.  Also, note that you have two things to install, QTR itself and  
your particular profiles.  And yes the printer does have to be  
connected for this to work.  Hope this helps.

-Chris


On Dec 16, 2006, at 2:24 PM, Grant Fergeson wrote:

> I have an R2400, ordered Piezography Neutral K7 inkset yesterday,  
> downloaded and send
> a fee in for the QTR software to my Mac as well. After the install  
> to the hard drive and
> restart, I see an icon on my Desktop that looks like a piece of  
> paper with the top right
> corner folded down a bit and a picture of my hard drive. Underneath  
> it says
> QuadToneRIP2.43.dmg. In it are all the install components that I  
> originally downloaded. I
> copied the folders named Profiles and Curve Design as well as a PDF  
> named tutorial, an .rtf
> document named QTR license and another item called Diagnosticscript  
> into a seperate
> folder just to be sure they were saved after the install. I tried  
> to load the K7 R2400 folder
> from the profiles folder but received a message saying that a USB  
> connection is required. I
> don't know if this means USB or USB 2.0 but I am using firewire and  
> so I need to get a new
> cable.
>
> Presuming that I can get this part to work or at least to install,  
> my question is, where does
> QTR live? I searched my hard drive for QTR and found several  
> application with QTR in
> their names under something called Eye-One but still can't locate  
> where it is exactly. When
> i connect a USB cable to my 2400 will all become clear or does the  
> software become part
> of photoshop or what? I have never used an RIP, and have always  
> used the ABW driver to
> make prints, which have been really good for the most part but I  
> wanted to try and get the
> best possible prints, hence my interest in the K& inks and QTR.
>
> If anyone can help me understand what I have just downloaded a  
> little better I'd really
> appreciate it.
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm currently evaluating both QTR and ImagePrint.

By following the documentation, I managed to get QTR to print something
(using an IlfordSmooth profile for Micro-Ceramic Luster paper), but clearly
using it requires that the user produce their own profiles if they don't
happen to be using one of the handful of pre-made types.

Is there a document explaining precisely how to do this in simple, numbered
steps written in plain non-scientific English? The documentation that came
with QTR is incomprehensible to me, I'm afraid. If it matters, I have a
gadget called an "eye-one display" that I got for my monitor, but I have no
idea what a densitometer is.

Alternately, are there any services where you can send a printed chart and a
check and have all the gobbledygook taken care of for you, like the way
InkJetArt.com does color profiles?
-- 
                              Ken Hagler

|         Skype: khagler          |   For PGP key send mail with  |
|   http://www.orange-road.com/   |    subject "Send PGP Key".    |
|   And tho' we are not now that strength which in old days       |
|   Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are --Tennyson  |

Hi All,
I am a brand new QTR user and have a few questions, please forgive me if they have been previously covered, I did do a search.

First of all, I'm printing B&W on an Epson 3800 using the Ultrachrome inks (I need the flexibility to also print color), using Photoshop CS4, on a Mac.

I spent most of yesterday making test prints of the same image on Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta (HFAB). I used the Silver Rag curves and also compared to using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (ABW. Overall I was quite pleased with the results, the tones seemed to have more separation (if that's the right term) and overall the prints seemed crisper. However I am still searching for that sweet spot.

One thing I noticed was using the neutral curve and comparing to ABW, the print made using QTR had an very slight red cast, compared to the very neutral ABW print. I would like the QTR neutral baseline to more closely match the ABW neutral.

So my question is, in order to achieve these results, do I need to develop my own custom ICC profile for the paper and / or my own custom curves for HFAB paper?

This may be complicated by the fact that don't own a spectrophotometer that will read reflective, I only have one for profiling monitors. 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Cheers,
Robbie

Have you tried the Silver Rag cool profile?

The epson black inks are a touch warm and need to be offset with a bit of cyan and magenta.

The changes between the cool and neutral profiles are quite subtle and simply bumping up the cyan limit a step or two in the neutral profile might get you where you want to be without the need for profiling.

It is trivial to copy and edit the text profiles which live in:

/Applications/QuadToneRIP/Profiles/3800-UC

The ink limits for silver rag neutral are:

LIMIT_K=55
BOOST_K=60
LIMIT_C=4
LIMIT_M=5
LIMIT_Y=0
LIMIT_LC=6
LIMIT_LM=7
LIMIT_LK=42
LIMIT_LLK=40

and for silver rag cool:

IMIT_K=50
BOOST_K=55
LIMIT_C=8
LIMIT_M=9
LIMIT_Y=0
LIMIT_LC=8
LIMIT_LM=10
LIMIT_LK=38
LIMIT_LLK=38


If the shadow/midtones are too warm, the critical changes are probably the C (cyan)  and M (magenta) values. I would start by incrementing these limits by one or two points.  

Alternatively, if the highlights are too warm, increment the LC (light cyan) and LM (ligt magenta) values one or two points.

Then reinstall your profile by running the "Install3800.command' script.

Good luck!





--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rmcclaran@..."  wrote:

>
> Hi All,
> I am a brand new QTR user and have a few questions, please forgive me if they have been previously covered, I did do a search.
> 
> First of all, I'm printing B&W on an Epson 3800 using the Ultrachrome inks (I need the flexibility to also print color), using Photoshop CS4, on a Mac.
> 
> I spent most of yesterday making test prints of the same image on Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta (HFAB). I used the Silver Rag curves and also compared to using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (ABW. Overall I was quite pleased with the results, the tones seemed to have more separation (if that's the right term) and overall the prints seemed crisper. However I am still searching for that sweet spot.
> 
> One thing I noticed was using the neutral curve and comparing to ABW, the print made using QTR had an very slight red cast, compared to the very neutral ABW print. I would like the QTR neutral baseline to more closely match the ABW neutral.
> 
> So my question is, in order to achieve these results, do I need to develop my own custom ICC profile for the paper and / or my own custom curves for HFAB paper?
> 
> This may be complicated by the fact that don't own a spectrophotometer that will read reflective, I only have one for profiling monitors. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> Cheers,
> Robbie
>

Thanks for your reply. I have tried the Silver Rag Cool but find it to be significantly different, much cooler than I prefer. 

I did not realize I could manipulate the curves as you suggest and will try that.

I also notice QTR, using the silver rag curves, does not seem to print blacks as deeply as ABW. Researching further it seems as if I might need to do some calibration and set my ink levels. However, once again I don't own the spectrophotometer or the software. Is there some other way to adjust the black ink?

Has anyone out there done custom curves or calibrations for Fine Art Baryta for the 3800 they would be willing to share?

Once again, I appreciate the help.
Kind Regards,
Robbie



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "mitomac"  wrote:

>
> 
> 
> Have you tried the Silver Rag cool profile?
> 
> The epson black inks are a touch warm and need to be offset with a bit of cyan and magenta.
> 
> The changes between the cool and neutral profiles are quite subtle and simply bumping up the cyan limit a step or two in the neutral profile might get you where you want to be without the need for profiling.
> 
> It is trivial to copy and edit the text profiles which live in:
> 
> /Applications/QuadToneRIP/Profiles/3800-UC
> 
> The ink limits for silver rag neutral are:
> 
> LIMIT_K=55
> BOOST_K=60
> LIMIT_C=4
> LIMIT_M=5
> LIMIT_Y=0
> LIMIT_LC=6
> LIMIT_LM=7
> LIMIT_LK=42
> LIMIT_LLK=40
> 
> and for silver rag cool:
> 
> IMIT_K=50
> BOOST_K=55
> LIMIT_C=8
> LIMIT_M=9
> LIMIT_Y=0
> LIMIT_LC=8
> LIMIT_LM=10
> LIMIT_LK=38
> LIMIT_LLK=38
> 
> 
> If the shadow/midtones are too warm, the critical changes are probably the C (cyan)  and M (magenta) values. I would start by incrementing these limits by one or two points.  
> 
> Alternatively, if the highlights are too warm, increment the LC (light cyan) and LM (ligt magenta) values one or two points.
> 
> Then reinstall your profile by running the "Install3800.command' script.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rmcclaran@"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I am a brand new QTR user and have a few questions, please forgive me if they have been previously covered, I did do a search.
> > 
> > First of all, I'm printing B&W on an Epson 3800 using the Ultrachrome inks (I need the flexibility to also print color), using Photoshop CS4, on a Mac.
> > 
> > I spent most of yesterday making test prints of the same image on Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta (HFAB). I used the Silver Rag curves and also compared to using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (ABW. Overall I was quite pleased with the results, the tones seemed to have more separation (if that's the right term) and overall the prints seemed crisper. However I am still searching for that sweet spot.
> > 
> > One thing I noticed was using the neutral curve and comparing to ABW, the print made using QTR had an very slight red cast, compared to the very neutral ABW print. I would like the QTR neutral baseline to more closely match the ABW neutral.
> > 
> > So my question is, in order to achieve these results, do I need to develop my own custom ICC profile for the paper and / or my own custom curves for HFAB paper?
> > 
> > This may be complicated by the fact that don't own a spectrophotometer that will read reflective, I only have one for profiling monitors. 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> > Cheers,
> > Robbie
> >
>

Robbie,

The idea is that you blend curves together in the print dialog page.
So start with
Curve1 = neutral
Curve2 = cool
and then try the sliders. Like 90% neutral and 10% cool for just a little cool.

Also the warm is a bit more yellowish than reddish so mixing a bit of
that in would reduce red color.

Its a bit of a trial and error but if you try a few combinations
you'll find it easier to narrow you
search for your personal tastes.  As the other user mentioned minor
changes in ink limits
will not need re-linearizing so that is still an option but its
easiest if you just try blending.
Save Presets so you keep using the same setup of parameters.

Roy

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:24 PM, rmcclaran@... <rmcclaran@...> wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. I have tried the Silver Rag Cool but find it to be significantly different, much cooler than I prefer.
>
> I did not realize I could manipulate the curves as you suggest and will try that.
>
> I also notice QTR, using the silver rag curves, does not seem to print blacks as deeply as ABW. Researching further it seems as if I might need to do some calibration and set my ink levels. However, once again I don't own the spectrophotometer or the software. Is there some other way to adjust the black ink?
>
> Has anyone out there done custom curves or calibrations for Fine Art Baryta for the 3800 they would be willing to share?
>
> Once again, I appreciate the help.
> Kind Regards,
> Robbie
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "mitomac"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you tried the Silver Rag cool profile?
>>
>> The epson black inks are a touch warm and need to be offset with a bit of cyan and magenta.
>>
>> The changes between the cool and neutral profiles are quite subtle and simply bumping up the cyan limit a step or two in the neutral profile might get you where you want to be without the need for profiling.
>>
>> It is trivial to copy and edit the text profiles which live in:
>>
>> /Applications/QuadToneRIP/Profiles/3800-UC
>>
>> The ink limits for silver rag neutral are:
>>
>> LIMIT_K=55
>> BOOST_K=60
>> LIMIT_C=4
>> LIMIT_M=5
>> LIMIT_Y=0
>> LIMIT_LC=6
>> LIMIT_LM=7
>> LIMIT_LK=42
>> LIMIT_LLK=40
>>
>> and for silver rag cool:
>>
>> IMIT_K=50
>> BOOST_K=55
>> LIMIT_C=8
>> LIMIT_M=9
>> LIMIT_Y=0
>> LIMIT_LC=8
>> LIMIT_LM=10
>> LIMIT_LK=38
>> LIMIT_LLK=38
>>
>>
>> If the shadow/midtones are too warm, the critical changes are probably the C (cyan)  and M (magenta) values. I would start by incrementing these limits by one or two points.
>>
>> Alternatively, if the highlights are too warm, increment the LC (light cyan) and LM (ligt magenta) values one or two points.
>>
>> Then reinstall your profile by running the "Install3800.command' script.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rmcclaran@"  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> > I am a brand new QTR user and have a few questions, please forgive me if they have been previously covered, I did do a search.
>> >
>> > First of all, I'm printing B&W on an Epson 3800 using the Ultrachrome inks (I need the flexibility to also print color), using Photoshop CS4, on a Mac.
>> >
>> > I spent most of yesterday making test prints of the same image on Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta (HFAB). I used the Silver Rag curves and also compared to using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (ABW. Overall I was quite pleased with the results, the tones seemed to have more separation (if that's the right term) and overall the prints seemed crisper. However I am still searching for that sweet spot.
>> >
>> > One thing I noticed was using the neutral curve and comparing to ABW, the print made using QTR had an very slight red cast, compared to the very neutral ABW print. I would like the QTR neutral baseline to more closely match the ABW neutral.
>> >
>> > So my question is, in order to achieve these results, do I need to develop my own custom ICC profile for the paper and / or my own custom curves for HFAB paper?
>> >
>> > This may be complicated by the fact that don't own a spectrophotometer that will read reflective, I only have one for profiling monitors.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robbie
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



-- 
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
www.harrington.com

Thanks Roy, I'll give that a try.

Do you have any suggestions for increasing the dmax (forgive me if that's not the correct term)? In other words, the areas of the print that should be deepest black do not appear to be fully black, especially compared with the same print using ABW. I wonder if the Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta has a different ink limit than Silver Rag?

Best,
Robbie


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington  wrote:

>
> Robbie,
> 
> The idea is that you blend curves together in the print dialog page.
> So start with
> Curve1 = neutral
> Curve2 = cool
> and then try the sliders. Like 90% neutral and 10% cool for just a little cool.
> 
> Also the warm is a bit more yellowish than reddish so mixing a bit of
> that in would reduce red color.
> 
> Its a bit of a trial and error but if you try a few combinations
> you'll find it easier to narrow you
> search for your personal tastes.  As the other user mentioned minor
> changes in ink limits
> will not need re-linearizing so that is still an option but its
> easiest if you just try blending.
> Save Presets so you keep using the same setup of parameters.
> 
> Roy
> 
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:24 PM, rmcclaran@...  wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. I have tried the Silver Rag Cool but find it to be significantly different, much cooler than I prefer.
> >
> > I did not realize I could manipulate the curves as you suggest and will try that.
> >
> > I also notice QTR, using the silver rag curves, does not seem to print blacks as deeply as ABW. Researching further it seems as if I might need to do some calibration and set my ink levels. However, once again I don't own the spectrophotometer or the software. Is there some other way to adjust the black ink?
> >
> > Has anyone out there done custom curves or calibrations for Fine Art Baryta for the 3800 they would be willing to share?
> >
> > Once again, I appreciate the help.
> > Kind Regards,
> > Robbie
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "mitomac"  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you tried the Silver Rag cool profile?
> >>
> >> The epson black inks are a touch warm and need to be offset with a bit of cyan and magenta.
> >>
> >> The changes between the cool and neutral profiles are quite subtle and simply bumping up the cyan limit a step or two in the neutral profile might get you where you want to be without the need for profiling.
> >>
> >> It is trivial to copy and edit the text profiles which live in:
> >>
> >> /Applications/QuadToneRIP/Profiles/3800-UC
> >>
> >> The ink limits for silver rag neutral are:
> >>
> >> LIMIT_K=55
> >> BOOST_K=60
> >> LIMIT_C=4
> >> LIMIT_M=5
> >> LIMIT_Y=0
> >> LIMIT_LC=6
> >> LIMIT_LM=7
> >> LIMIT_LK=42
> >> LIMIT_LLK=40
> >>
> >> and for silver rag cool:
> >>
> >> IMIT_K=50
> >> BOOST_K=55
> >> LIMIT_C=8
> >> LIMIT_M=9
> >> LIMIT_Y=0
> >> LIMIT_LC=8
> >> LIMIT_LM=10
> >> LIMIT_LK=38
> >> LIMIT_LLK=38
> >>
> >>
> >> If the shadow/midtones are too warm, the critical changes are probably the C (cyan)  and M (magenta) values. I would start by incrementing these limits by one or two points.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, if the highlights are too warm, increment the LC (light cyan) and LM (ligt magenta) values one or two points.
> >>
> >> Then reinstall your profile by running the "Install3800.command' script.
> >>
> >> Good luck!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rmcclaran@"  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi All,
> >> > I am a brand new QTR user and have a few questions, please forgive me if they have been previously covered, I did do a search.
> >> >
> >> > First of all, I'm printing B&W on an Epson 3800 using the Ultrachrome inks (I need the flexibility to also print color), using Photoshop CS4, on a Mac.
> >> >
> >> > I spent most of yesterday making test prints of the same image on Hahnemule Fine Art Baryta (HFAB). I used the Silver Rag curves and also compared to using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (ABW. Overall I was quite pleased with the results, the tones seemed to have more separation (if that's the right term) and overall the prints seemed crisper. However I am still searching for that sweet spot.
> >> >
> >> > One thing I noticed was using the neutral curve and comparing to ABW, the print made using QTR had an very slight red cast, compared to the very neutral ABW print. I would like the QTR neutral baseline to more closely match the ABW neutral.
> >> >
> >> > So my question is, in order to achieve these results, do I need to develop my own custom ICC profile for the paper and / or my own custom curves for HFAB paper?
> >> >
> >> > This may be complicated by the fact that don't own a spectrophotometer that will read reflective, I only have one for profiling monitors.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Robbie
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Roy Harrington
> roy@...
> www.harrington.com
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington  wrote:
>
> Robbie,
> 
> The idea is that you blend curves together in the print dialog page.
> So start with
> Curve1 = neutral
> Curve2 = cool
> and then try the sliders. Like 90% neutral and 10% cool for just a little cool.
> 

Hi Robbie 

THIS is the way to do it!

I am in idiot and apologize for my prior comment. I have been tweaking the curves (txt files) by hand for alternative processes for so long that I completely forgot about the obvious blending! I am deeply embarrassed. QTR is a fantastically flexible tool that can be used in a simple or complex manner. Have fun. 

Cheers,

mitomac