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why use QTR?

why use QTR?

2007-05-28 by Daniel Jackson

I've been using MIS UT7 inks on an Epson 2200 with Paul Roark's
curves and the Epson driver for a few years, and have been
mostly very happy with the results. 

But I'm giving QTR a try again, as I decided to get more serious
about linearizing and getting a good monitor/print match. 

I get very fine banding with QTR (which I see several people
have complained about) that goes away if I switch to
unidirectional printing. 

So here's my question: should I stick with QTR and just accept
this reduction in printing speed? I get the impression that it will
be easier to linearize and to make curves for new papers with
QTR, and that QTR allows much finer control. But I'm concerned
about the drop in speed and the QTR prints don't look better
than the ones produced by my old method.

--Daniel

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] why use QTR?

2007-05-30 by Eric Neilsen

Daniel, You'll get used to the "normal" speed of unidirectional printing. It
is the ONLY type that I have used; quality over speed for both my 7000 and
4800. Hi speed or bi directional is good for quick draft quality, but unless
you have a 3800 just relax. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel Jackson
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 12:06 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] why use QTR?

 

I've been using MIS UT7 inks on an Epson 2200 with Paul Roark's
curves and the Epson driver for a few years, and have been
mostly very happy with the results. 

But I'm giving QTR a try again, as I decided to get more serious
about linearizing and getting a good monitor/print match. 

I get very fine banding with QTR (which I see several people
have complained about) that goes away if I switch to
unidirectional printing. 

So here's my question: should I stick with QTR and just accept
this reduction in printing speed? I get the impression that it will
be easier to linearize and to make curves for new papers with
QTR, and that QTR allows much finer control. But I'm concerned
about the drop in speed and the QTR prints don't look better
than the ones produced by my old method.

--Daniel

 

.

 
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=14834347/grpspId=1705019182/msgI
d=4589/stime=1180353392/nc1=4543830/nc2=3848616/nc3=4299909> 
 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: why use QTR?

2007-05-30 by David Keenan

>but unless you have a 3800 just relax.

Eric --

What does this remark mean in conjunction with uni vs. bidirectional
printing?

Dave.


-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-01 by Sergei Antonov

It probably means that for 3800 Epson claimed equal quality for both 
bidirectional and unidirectional prints, and it seems to be confirmed 
by testers/reviewers. See, for example, 
http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212
By the way it also seems to be true for 1440 vs 2800 dpi prints on 
that model.


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> >but unless you have a 3800 just relax.
> 
> Eric --
> 
> What does this remark mean in conjunction with uni vs. bidirectional
> printing?
>

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-01 by Daniel Jackson

What I was hoping someone would tell me is why I should use QTR at all in 
preference to the Epson driver and Roark curves. I seem to have found one
good reason aside from print quality -- it would let me install both a matte
and photo ink at once in my 2200.

I get the impression that many of you out there do only unidirectional
printing. I'm surprised by this, as it doesn't produce a detectably better result
on my 2200 with the Epson driver. Or maybe I'm not looking carefully enough?

--Daniel

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Sergei Antonov" <antonovsergei@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It probably means that for 3800 Epson claimed equal quality for both 
> bidirectional and unidirectional prints, and it seems to be confirmed 
> by testers/reviewers. See, for example, 
> http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212
> By the way it also seems to be true for 1440 vs 2800 dpi prints on 
> that model.
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@> wrote:
> >
> > >but unless you have a 3800 just relax.
> > 
> > Eric --
> > 
> > What does this remark mean in conjunction with uni vs. bidirectional
> > printing?
> >
>

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-01 by Eric Neilsen

Yes, that what I meant. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Sergei Antonov
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:31 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

 

It probably means that for 3800 Epson claimed equal quality for both 
bidirectional and unidirectional prints, and it seems to be confirmed 
by testers/reviewers. See, for example, 
http://www.outbackp
<http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212>
hoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212
By the way it also seems to be true for 1440 vs 2800 dpi prints on 
that model.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@ <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> >but unless you have a 3800 just relax.
> 
> Eric --
> 
> What does this remark mean in conjunction with uni vs. bidirectional
> printing?
> 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-01 by Eric Neilsen

IT could be that we are all from a time when it REALLY did make a difference
and that our workflows, like making digital negs, really push the upper
limits of quality that the machine are capable of producing. There was a
rush to provide users with ways to make images that Epson certainly wasn't
interested in doing; that being to give B&W digital printers options
including all the toning options that we produced in the darkroom. You are
now seeing split toning showing up in almost every new piece of software out
there. Epson has with the recent printers finally given printers high
quality B&W toning controls with ABW. Can it be better? Sure, but then we
have QTR to allow the adventurous to take it further. 

 

And by just relax,  printing should be a relaxing event. Not a rush, rush,
rush..    I know that sometimes we are up against deadlines, but you are
making prints that are hopefully THE expression of the image, not just some
ink on a page. : ) 

 

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel Jackson
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:12 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

 

What I was hoping someone would tell me is why I should use QTR at all in 
preference to the Epson driver and Roark curves. I seem to have found one
good reason aside from print quality -- it would let me install both a matte
and photo ink at once in my 2200.

I get the impression that many of you out there do only unidirectional
printing. I'm surprised by this, as it doesn't produce a detectably better
result
on my 2200 with the Epson driver. Or maybe I'm not looking carefully enough?

--Daniel

--- In QuadtoneRIP@ <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"Sergei Antonov" <antonovsergei@...> wrote:
>
> It probably means that for 3800 Epson claimed equal quality for both 
> bidirectional and unidirectional prints, and it seems to be confirmed 
> by testers/reviewers. See, for example, 
> http://www.outbackp
<http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212>
hoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html#20070212
> By the way it also seems to be true for 1440 vs 2800 dpi prints on 
> that model.
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@ <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@> wrote:
> >
> > >but unless you have a 3800 just relax.
> > 
> > Eric --
> > 
> > What does this remark mean in conjunction with uni vs. bidirectional
> > printing?
> >
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-02 by David Keenan

I certainly wonder this too...

I have made many prints on an Epson R2400 using ABW mode and now that I have
a 3800, I continue to rely on ABW.

With my new 3800, I profiled all my papers using the "extended gray" feature
of the latest version of PrintFix Pro and did some print comparisons. The
ABW prints were better in my (and other) opinions. The shadows were cleaner
for sure.

I haven't used my copy of QTR since my 2200 died and I replaced it with a
R2400.

Still for some reason I feel inadequate even though I am quite happy with
the prints I make especially on Innova F-type paper...

So,  back on topic -- why do other printers find using ICC profiles,
dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their prints that much better
then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all the extra work (hassle,
in my opinion) worth it?

Or do this printers have an inherent "tinkerers mentality" (that I clearly
lack) that makes this fun for them and that's why they choose the extra
effort?

Bottomline -- does this effort show up in the prints?

Dave.

-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-07 by Gary W. Weaver

The short answer is yes. That is only based on the control factor.

Olive Garden can make a dish just as Epson can make a print, but where is
the KraftWerk?

gar
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of David Keenan
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:18 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?


I certainly wonder this too...

I have made many prints on an Epson R2400 using ABW mode and now that I have
a 3800, I continue to rely on ABW.

With my new 3800, I profiled all my papers using the "extended gray" feature
of the latest version of PrintFix Pro and did some print comparisons. The
ABW prints were better in my (and other) opinions. The shadows were cleaner
for sure.

I haven't used my copy of QTR since my 2200 died and I replaced it with a
R2400.

Still for some reason I feel inadequate even though I am quite happy with
the prints I make especially on Innova F-type paper...

So,  back on topic -- why do other printers find using ICC profiles,
dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their prints that much better
then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all the extra work (hassle,
in my opinion) worth it?

Or do this printers have an inherent "tinkerers mentality" (that I clearly
lack) that makes this fun for them and that's why they choose the extra
effort?

Bottomline -- does this effort show up in the prints?

Dave.

--
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-07 by Tyler Boley

obvioulsy many people feel alternative methods are worth the effort. Most of them are 
pretty easy these days, little tinkering is really required.
The only way you will know if these potential advantages are of interest to you is to see 
them for yourself in actual prints.
There used to be the occassional print exchanges within these groups, I haven't seen 
notice of one in some time.
Tyler

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I certainly wonder this too...
> 
> I have made many prints on an Epson R2400 using ABW mode and now that I have
> a 3800, I continue to rely on ABW.
> 
> With my new 3800, I profiled all my papers using the "extended gray" feature
> of the latest version of PrintFix Pro and did some print comparisons. The
> ABW prints were better in my (and other) opinions. The shadows were cleaner
> for sure.
> 
> I haven't used my copy of QTR since my 2200 died and I replaced it with a
> R2400.
> 
> Still for some reason I feel inadequate even though I am quite happy with
> the prints I make especially on Innova F-type paper...
> 
> So,  back on topic -- why do other printers find using ICC profiles,
> dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their prints that much better
> then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all the extra work (hassle,
> in my opinion) worth it?
> 
> Or do this printers have an inherent "tinkerers mentality" (that I clearly
> lack) that makes this fun for them and that's why they choose the extra
> effort?
> 
> Bottomline -- does this effort show up in the prints?
> 
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
> Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
> 2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-08 by richardeskin

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> I certainly wonder this too...
> 
> I have made many prints on an Epson R2400 using ABW mode and now 
that I have > a 3800, I continue to rely on ABW.
> 
> With my new 3800, I profiled all my papers using the "extended 
gray" feature of the latest version of PrintFix Pro and did some 
print comparisons. The ABW prints were better in my (and other) 
opinions. The shadows were cleaner
> for sure.
> 
> I haven't used my copy of QTR since my 2200 died and I replaced it 
with a
> R2400.
> 
> Still for some reason I feel inadequate even though I am quite 
happy with
> the prints I make especially on Innova F-type paper...
> 
> So,  back on topic -- why do other printers find using ICC profiles,
> dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their prints that much 
better
> then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all the extra work 
(hassle,
> in my opinion) worth it?
> 
> Or do this printers have an inherent "tinkerers mentality" (that I 
clearly
> lack) that makes this fun for them and that's why they choose the 
extra
> effort?
> 
> Bottomline -- does this effort show up in the prints?
> 
> Dave.
> 
Although I have tried QTR and went back to ABW I can see several very 
good reasons for folks to have used, and to continue to use, QTR in 
addition to liking to "tinker."

1. Until recently the quality of ABW wasn't available.
2. They can't afford or don't wish to purchase a printer capable of 
ABW and aren't getting satisfactory results on their printers without 
QTR.
3. They don't like what they get from ABW, although others may find 
it completely satisfactory.
4. They feel compelled to control every aspect of the creative 
process.
5. They feel that only through QTR can they maximize the archival 
life of their prints.
6. They had developed a comfortable work flow with QTR and even 
though ABW is now available and could substitute, having an 
established workflow avoids the "hassle" with newly developing 
profiles and new work flow.

To each his or her own. It is all about enjoying what you do and 
achieving a level of satisfaction. What is hassle or tedious to one 
person is enjoyable to others. I don't mind cutting my own mats, 
while I know others who just want to be out taking pictures amd don't 
want to "bother" cutting mats.

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-08 by Daniel Jackson

One major factor in QTR's favour: you can use MIS inks. By my calculation,
they cost about 15c/ml, compared to 60c/ml or more for Epson ink. And 
they're presumably more archival, and produce results at least as good as
ABW or better. But MIS says no carts for the 3800 yet, although they're
promising them soon. Maybe we can all press them to hurry up a bit...

And one other thought. If you print B&W, why would you want to spend $
on all those colour cartridges that are hardly being used?

--Daniel


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I certainly wonder this too...
> 
> I have made many prints on an Epson R2400 using ABW mode and now that I have
> a 3800, I continue to rely on ABW.

Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-08 by Jon Zax

Ok here's one for you.

Because I have my 9800 loaded with Photo Black ink, there are no  
options in ABW for printing to matte papers.

I can, however, do linearization and profile to matte papers in QTR  
this way.

QED


J.Z.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-08 by Warren Wilson

David Keenan wrote:

"So, back on topic -- why do other printers find using
ICC profiles,
dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their
prints that much better
then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all
the extra work (hassle,
in my opinion) worth it?"

Leading me to ask:

What is ABW?

Warren Wilson


       
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RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-09 by Gary W. Weaver

Almost Black & White ??

gar
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Warren Wilson
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 2:24 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?


David Keenan wrote:

"So, back on topic -- why do other printers find using
ICC profiles,
dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their
prints that much better
then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all
the extra work (hassle,
in my opinion) worth it?"

Leading me to ask:

What is ABW?

Warren Wilson



____________________________________________________________________________
________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of
spyware protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php




Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

2007-06-09 by Eric Neilsen

Warren, ABW = Advanced Black and White.  This is true compared to previous
Epson drivers and printers. The latest series of printers now allow you to,
WITHOUT the additional purchase of a RIP, or additional software make some
very nice B&W prints. Some will argue about that amounts of certain ink
(color) that it allows in a print. It big advantage is to give a beginner,
no tech type person, a way to make both color and B&W images that are of
high quality. There are programs, like QTR, that give you more control over
that process. 

 

In the world of Epson printers and drivers it is a vast improvement.
However, in the world of digital B&W it is a long time coming and still has
failings that some find love to complain about. 

 

 

Eric

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Warren Wilson
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 4:24 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: why use QTR?

 

David Keenan wrote:

"So, back on topic -- why do other printers find using
ICC profiles,
dedicated inksets, and/or QTR valuable? Are their
prints that much better
then what the Epson driver can do in ABW to make all
the extra work (hassle,
in my opinion) worth it?"

Leading me to ask:

What is ABW?

Warren Wilson

__________________________________________________________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of
spyware protection.
http://new.toolbar.
<http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php>
yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php

 



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