QTR-Quadtone RIP

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Joost Horsten
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:14 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Convert to Profile

 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pzdaum" <pzdaum@...> wrote:

> I uninstalled & reinstalled; still not an option. What do I do?

What exactly have you installed? If I remember correctly, You must 
install the QTR profiles manually as they are not installed 
automatically with QTR.

Joost



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Best regards,
> Pam
>

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of emulsion4ever
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:20 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Convert to Profile

 

Pam,

"Confusion" seems to be a regular thing where Quadtone RIP is concerned.

If I understand correctly, what's being asked is that you convert the
embedded color profile of the image you are working on, prior to sending
it to the printer. This, by my understanding, does NOT refer to the
"printer profile" but rather to the profile embedded in the actual image
file you have open in Photoshop.

To do this, you need to:

1) Click on the EDIT menu
2) Choose "Convert To Profile"
3) In the dialogue box that opens, you should see the "Source Space"
which reflects the current color space of the image. Below it you'll see
"Destination Space". Click on the drop down list and scroll alllllllllll
the way down until you get to "QTR Gray Matte Paper". Make sure you
save a copy of the image as something else as this conversion will
flatten your image.

As for the overall print quality of your images, that has to do with
profiling the printer (not the source image, as we just did). I'm a
newbie too btw. I hope this helps or at least saves you some
frustration. All of the information above reflects nothing more then my
own sense, having read & played around with the options/settings
described.

IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING I'VE SAID - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CORRECT
ME!

I don't want to send someone on a wild goose chase.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pzdaum" <pzdaum@...> wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>
, "Joost Horsten" j.h.j.h@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com> , "pzdaum" <pzdaum@> wrote:
> >
> > > I uninstalled & reinstalled; still not an option. What do I do?
> >
> > What exactly have you installed? If I remember correctly, You must
> > install the QTR profiles manually as they are not installed
> > automatically with QTR.
> >
> > Joost
> >
> Hi Joost,
>
> This info I copied directly from the Quad Tone website:
> "Beyond just the printing capability Quad Tone Rip also includes
> several tools that allow the user to create a complete color-managed
> system for black & white printing. This includes making full B&W ICC
> profiles for both printing and soft-proofing within Photoshop or any
> other editing package that allows soft-proofing.
> This software is included in the main QuadToneRIP download. The B&W
> ICC profile tool is called QTR-Create-ICC and is found under the
> Eye-One Folder. There is also an RGB version this tool."
> From an article by David Brooks I've gotten this info:
> "The QTR QuadR1800 printer driver is linear & expects a grayscale B&W
> photo file to also be linear, without an embedded grayscale profile
> which has a curve. All of the std Adobe Photoshop grayscale workspace
> profiles like Gray Gamma 2.2 have a non-lineal curve which will
> influence internal contrast, particularly affecting shadow detail in
> any resulting prints made with QTR. To obtain match on-screen adjusted
> image attributes, you must use the Photoshop Edit command Convert to
> Profile and select the Destination Space: QTR-Gray Matte Paper (which
> should be available in the profile drop down list as it is installed
> as part of QTR)".
> I'm a rookie at this, so please bear with me; I'm just going by what's
> given to me.none of the above downloaded w/ QTR & my prints
reflect
> it. They're awful! Any help & advice is greatly appreciated. I'm so
> confused I feel like going back to B&W film & setting my darkroom back
up.
> Best regards,
> Pam
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 7:20 PM, emulsion4ever <emulsion4ever@...> wrote:
> Pam,
>
> "Confusion" seems to be a regular thing where Quadtone RIP is concerned.
>
> If I understand correctly, what's being asked is that you convert the
> embedded color profile of the image you are working on, prior to sending
> it to the printer. This, by my understanding, does NOT refer to the
> "printer profile" but rather to the profile embedded in the actual image
> file you have open in Photoshop.
>
> To do this, you need to:
>
> 1) Click on the EDIT menu
> 2) Choose "Convert To Profile"
> 3) In the dialogue box that opens, you should see the "Source Space"
> which reflects the current color space of the image. Below it you'll see
> "Destination Space". Click on the drop down list and scroll alllllllllll
> the way down until you get to "QTR Gray Matte Paper".  Make sure you
> save a copy of the image as something else as this conversion will
> flatten your image.
>
>
> As for the overall print quality of your images, that has to do with
> profiling the printer (not the source image, as we just did). I'm a
> newbie too btw. I hope this helps or at least saves you some
> frustration. All of the information above reflects nothing more then my
> own sense, having read & played around with the options/settings
> described.
>
> IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING I'VE SAID - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CORRECT
> ME!
>
> I don't want to send someone on a wild goose chase.
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Joost Horsten" j.h.j.h@ wrote:
>> >
>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I uninstalled & reinstalled; still not an option. What do I do?
>> >
>> > What exactly have you installed? If I remember correctly, You must
>> > install the QTR profiles manually as they are not installed
>> > automatically with QTR.
>> >
>> > Joost
>> >
>> Hi Joost,
>>
>> This info I copied directly from the Quad Tone website:
>> "Beyond just the printing capability Quad Tone Rip also includes
>> several tools that allow the user to create a complete color-managed
>> system for black & white printing. This includes making full B&W ICC
>> profiles for both printing and soft-proofing within Photoshop or any
>> other editing package that allows soft-proofing.
>> This software is included in the main QuadToneRIP download. The B&W
>> ICC profile tool is called QTR-Create-ICC and is found under the
>> Eye-One Folder. There is also an RGB version this tool."
>> From an article by David Brooks I've gotten this info:
>> "The QTR QuadR1800 printer driver is linear & expects a grayscale B&W
>> photo file to also be linear, without an embedded grayscale profile
>> which has a curve. All of the std Adobe Photoshop grayscale workspace
>> profiles like Gray Gamma 2.2 have a non-lineal curve which will
>> influence internal contrast, particularly affecting shadow detail in
>> any resulting prints made with QTR. To obtain match on-screen adjusted
>> image attributes, you must use the Photoshop Edit command Convert to
>> Profile and select the Destination Space: QTR-Gray Matte Paper (which
>> should be available in the profile drop down list as it is installed
>> as part of QTR)".
>> I'm a rookie at this, so please bear with me; I'm just going by what's
>> given to me…none of the above downloaded w/ QTR & my prints
> reflect
>> it. They're awful! Any help & advice is greatly appreciated. I'm so
>> confused I feel like going back to B&W film & setting my darkroom back
> up.
>> Best regards,
>> Pam
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

> I think the main "confusion" here is ICC color management.  CM is an industry
> standard for dealing with the output of lots of devices.
> Unfortunately CM has been an
> evolving feature so lots of software products have added it over time
> -- Photoshop
> has it, printer drivers have it, operating systems have it.  But when
> you actually use
> it you must know where and when its happening -- the usual error is
> "double profiling".
> Because of this most people don't really know what's happening but
> have lots of canned
> procedures of how to use it.  The procedures may be different but
> still result in the
> same underlying operations and same results.
>
> So, how does this relate to QTR?  The QTR driver does not deal with
> color management,
> embedded profiles etc.   It's a low level print driver that takes
> pixel values of 0-255
> and puts ink on the page based on the input pixel value and the curves
> selected. Period.
>
> The way to color management any device/driver is "profile" it and then
> convert your
> pixel data to that profile on the way to the device.  In Photoshop
> this is totally invisible
> as far as the display is concerned -- you can't change this or see it happening.
> Printing on the other hand is done more manually -- and you have to do
> it right.  In the
> Print command you can select No CM, Let the driver do it, or Let
> Photoshop do it.
> In the last one you select a Print Profile.  When you do this Photoshop does a
> Convert-to-Profile on the fly as it sends it to the driver.  This is
> why there is always
> a big sign -- Turn OFF CM in the driver.
>
> Now back to QTR.  On the Mac you do exactly like the previous
> paragraph.  You simply
> Print, select a Print Profile and QTR has no CM to turn off.  This is
> just like color
> printing with the Epson driver.  On the PC though there's a major
> difference in QTR.
> QTR is not a regular print driver on PCs -- its a separate program
> called QTRgui.  So
> when you are in Photoshop you are not going to use the Print which
> means you don't
> get the on-the-fly print profile conversion.  You must do it manually.
>  This is where
> the Convert-to-Profile command is used.  You Save the TIFF file with
> the conversion
> done.  (note: it's not the embedded profile that's important is that
> you converted the
> pixel values).  QTRgui and the QTR driver will see the "print
> profiled" values just
> like it did in the Mac case.
>
> I think that pretty much says how CM is used (how it works is another issue).
> But to throw one more wrench in the gears, with B&W its reasonably easy to get
> away without any CM at all.  B&W is a single dimension so you can
> fairly easily learn
> to edit a file to get the print you want.  CM does not add any quality
> to a print.  QTR
> started that way -- no CM -- and many still use it that way, Epson ABW
> from Epson's
> point of view is still that way.  I think for someone starting you may
> want to avoid
> CM at first.  It's virtually impossible to understand how everything
> works all at once.
>
> I'd venture to guess if you aren't getting prints you like its not a CM issue.
> It's probably becoming familiar with inkjet prints, papers, and screens
> and how different things are because of the media or just something not
> working -- wrong paper, wrong ink, wrong side, clogged jet etc..
>
> Hope this helps.
> Roy
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 7:20 PM, emulsion4ever <emulsion4ever@...> wrote:
>> Pam,
>>
>> "Confusion" seems to be a regular thing where Quadtone RIP is concerned.
>>
>> If I understand correctly, what's being asked is that you convert the
>> embedded color profile of the image you are working on, prior to sending
>> it to the printer. This, by my understanding, does NOT refer to the
>> "printer profile" but rather to the profile embedded in the actual image
>> file you have open in Photoshop.
>>
>> To do this, you need to:
>>
>> 1) Click on the EDIT menu
>> 2) Choose "Convert To Profile"
>> 3) In the dialogue box that opens, you should see the "Source Space"
>> which reflects the current color space of the image. Below it you'll see
>> "Destination Space". Click on the drop down list and scroll alllllllllll
>> the way down until you get to "QTR Gray Matte Paper".  Make sure you
>> save a copy of the image as something else as this conversion will
>> flatten your image.
>>
>>
>> As for the overall print quality of your images, that has to do with
>> profiling the printer (not the source image, as we just did). I'm a
>> newbie too btw. I hope this helps or at least saves you some
>> frustration. All of the information above reflects nothing more then my
>> own sense, having read & played around with the options/settings
>> described.
>>
>> IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING I'VE SAID - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CORRECT
>> ME!
>>
>> I don't want to send someone on a wild goose chase.
>>
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Joost Horsten" j.h.j.h@ wrote:
>>> >
>>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I uninstalled & reinstalled; still not an option. What do I do?
>>> >
>>> > What exactly have you installed? If I remember correctly, You must
>>> > install the QTR profiles manually as they are not installed
>>> > automatically with QTR.
>>> >
>>> > Joost
>>> >
>>> Hi Joost,
>>>
>>> This info I copied directly from the Quad Tone website:
>>> "Beyond just the printing capability Quad Tone Rip also includes
>>> several tools that allow the user to create a complete color-managed
>>> system for black & white printing. This includes making full B&W ICC
>>> profiles for both printing and soft-proofing within Photoshop or any
>>> other editing package that allows soft-proofing.
>>> This software is included in the main QuadToneRIP download. The B&W
>>> ICC profile tool is called QTR-Create-ICC and is found under the
>>> Eye-One Folder. There is also an RGB version this tool."
>>> From an article by David Brooks I've gotten this info:
>>> "The QTR QuadR1800 printer driver is linear & expects a grayscale B&W
>>> photo file to also be linear, without an embedded grayscale profile
>>> which has a curve. All of the std Adobe Photoshop grayscale workspace
>>> profiles like Gray Gamma 2.2 have a non-lineal curve which will
>>> influence internal contrast, particularly affecting shadow detail in
>>> any resulting prints made with QTR. To obtain match on-screen adjusted
>>> image attributes, you must use the Photoshop Edit command Convert to
>>> Profile and select the Destination Space: QTR-Gray Matte Paper (which
>>> should be available in the profile drop down list as it is installed
>>> as part of QTR)".
>>> I'm a rookie at this, so please bear with me; I'm just going by what's
>>> given to me…none of the above downloaded w/ QTR & my prints
>> reflect
>>> it. They're awful! Any help & advice is greatly appreciated. I'm so
>>> confused I feel like going back to B&W film & setting my darkroom back
>> up.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Pam
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Michael King
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 7:56 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Convert to Profile

Here's an attempt to simplify what Roy just said.

If you are on a PC then you have 2 different ways to match your print
to what you see on your monitor in PS.

1) You add a curves adjustment layer to your image in PS and tweak the
adjustment layer until the print from QTR matches what you see on
screen.
Note this adjustment layer should then be reusable with any image you
want to print on the same paper/ink/printer combination.

2) You create a profile for your paper/ink/printer combination using
QTR Create ICC.
You then convert your image to that profile in PS (using perceptual
intent, with bpc checked) and print that converted version with
QTRGui.
You get to prreview on your monitor both luminosity and tone with this
approach. This approach relies on your monitor being correctly
profiled.

Hope that helps.

Mike

2008/10/19 Roy Harrington <roy@...>:
> I think the main "confusion" here is ICC color management.  CM is an
industry
> standard for dealing with the output of lots of devices.
> Unfortunately CM has been an
> evolving feature so lots of software products have added it over time
> -- Photoshop
> has it, printer drivers have it, operating systems have it.  But when
> you actually use
> it you must know where and when its happening -- the usual error is
> "double profiling".
> Because of this most people don't really know what's happening but
> have lots of canned
> procedures of how to use it.  The procedures may be different but
> still result in the
> same underlying operations and same results.
>
> So, how does this relate to QTR?  The QTR driver does not deal with
> color management,
> embedded profiles etc.   It's a low level print driver that takes
> pixel values of 0-255
> and puts ink on the page based on the input pixel value and the curves
> selected. Period.
>
> The way to color management any device/driver is "profile" it and then
> convert your
> pixel data to that profile on the way to the device.  In Photoshop
> this is totally invisible
> as far as the display is concerned -- you can't change this or see it
happening.
> Printing on the other hand is done more manually -- and you have to do
> it right.  In the
> Print command you can select No CM, Let the driver do it, or Let
> Photoshop do it.
> In the last one you select a Print Profile.  When you do this Photoshop
does a
> Convert-to-Profile on the fly as it sends it to the driver.  This is
> why there is always
> a big sign -- Turn OFF CM in the driver.
>
> Now back to QTR.  On the Mac you do exactly like the previous
> paragraph.  You simply
> Print, select a Print Profile and QTR has no CM to turn off.  This is
> just like color
> printing with the Epson driver.  On the PC though there's a major
> difference in QTR.
> QTR is not a regular print driver on PCs -- its a separate program
> called QTRgui.  So
> when you are in Photoshop you are not going to use the Print which
> means you don't
> get the on-the-fly print profile conversion.  You must do it manually.
>  This is where
> the Convert-to-Profile command is used.  You Save the TIFF file with
> the conversion
> done.  (note: it's not the embedded profile that's important is that
> you converted the
> pixel values).  QTRgui and the QTR driver will see the "print
> profiled" values just
> like it did in the Mac case.
>
> I think that pretty much says how CM is used (how it works is another
issue).
> But to throw one more wrench in the gears, with B&W its reasonably easy to
get
> away without any CM at all.  B&W is a single dimension so you can
> fairly easily learn
> to edit a file to get the print you want.  CM does not add any quality
> to a print.  QTR
> started that way -- no CM -- and many still use it that way, Epson ABW
> from Epson's
> point of view is still that way.  I think for someone starting you may
> want to avoid
> CM at first.  It's virtually impossible to understand how everything
> works all at once.
>
> I'd venture to guess if you aren't getting prints you like its not a CM
issue.
> It's probably becoming familiar with inkjet prints, papers, and screens
> and how different things are because of the media or just something not
> working -- wrong paper, wrong ink, wrong side, clogged jet etc..
>
> Hope this helps.
> Roy
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 7:20 PM, emulsion4ever <emulsion4ever@...>
wrote:
>> Pam,
>>
>> "Confusion" seems to be a regular thing where Quadtone RIP is concerned.
>>
>> If I understand correctly, what's being asked is that you convert the
>> embedded color profile of the image you are working on, prior to sending
>> it to the printer. This, by my understanding, does NOT refer to the
>> "printer profile" but rather to the profile embedded in the actual image
>> file you have open in Photoshop.
>>
>> To do this, you need to:
>>
>> 1) Click on the EDIT menu
>> 2) Choose "Convert To Profile"
>> 3) In the dialogue box that opens, you should see the "Source Space"
>> which reflects the current color space of the image. Below it you'll see
>> "Destination Space". Click on the drop down list and scroll alllllllllll
>> the way down until you get to "QTR Gray Matte Paper".  Make sure you
>> save a copy of the image as something else as this conversion will
>> flatten your image.
>>
>>
>> As for the overall print quality of your images, that has to do with
>> profiling the printer (not the source image, as we just did). I'm a
>> newbie too btw. I hope this helps or at least saves you some
>> frustration. All of the information above reflects nothing more then my
>> own sense, having read & played around with the options/settings
>> described.
>>
>> IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING I'VE SAID - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CORRECT
>> ME!
>>
>> I don't want to send someone on a wild goose chase.
>>
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Joost Horsten" j.h.j.h@ wrote:
>>> >
>>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pzdaum" <pzdaum@> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I uninstalled & reinstalled; still not an option. What do I do?
>>> >
>>> > What exactly have you installed? If I remember correctly, You must
>>> > install the QTR profiles manually as they are not installed
>>> > automatically with QTR.
>>> >
>>> > Joost
>>> >
>>> Hi Joost,
>>>
>>> This info I copied directly from the Quad Tone website:
>>> "Beyond just the printing capability Quad Tone Rip also includes
>>> several tools that allow the user to create a complete color-managed
>>> system for black & white printing. This includes making full B&W ICC
>>> profiles for both printing and soft-proofing within Photoshop or any
>>> other editing package that allows soft-proofing.
>>> This software is included in the main QuadToneRIP download. The B&W
>>> ICC profile tool is called QTR-Create-ICC and is found under the
>>> Eye-One Folder. There is also an RGB version this tool."
>>> From an article by David Brooks I've gotten this info:
>>> "The QTR QuadR1800 printer driver is linear & expects a grayscale B&W
>>> photo file to also be linear, without an embedded grayscale profile
>>> which has a curve. All of the std Adobe Photoshop grayscale workspace
>>> profiles like Gray Gamma 2.2 have a non-lineal curve which will
>>> influence internal contrast, particularly affecting shadow detail in
>>> any resulting prints made with QTR. To obtain match on-screen adjusted
>>> image attributes, you must use the Photoshop Edit command Convert to
>>> Profile and select the Destination Space: QTR-Gray Matte Paper (which
>>> should be available in the profile drop down list as it is installed
>>> as part of QTR)".
>>> I'm a rookie at this, so please bear with me; I'm just going by what's
>>> given to me.none of the above downloaded w/ QTR & my prints
>> reflect
>>> it. They're awful! Any help & advice is greatly appreciated. I'm so
>>> confused I feel like going back to B&W film & setting my darkroom back
>> up.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Pam
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links