QTR-Quadtone RIP

>
> After more than a year I finally resurrected my 1280 printer (unfixable clogged nozzles )by installing a new print head.  Works just great now and I can now use the K6/K7 inks.
> 
> After doing a few prints I'm happy with the QTR system but I'm not completely satisfied by the dMax I'm getting on Epson Premium Presentation Matte (my old standard).
> 
> Maybe I've outgrown the Epson paper.  What I'm looking for is a good paper with good dMax for use with the K6 inkset.  Unless I want to make my own profile it looks like I may be limited to the papers that Jon Cone supplies.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good dMax paper?  How is the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or the new Premier Alise paper that Jon is advertising?
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
>

>
> What Dmax are you getting with the Epson paper? It is possible that this paper does not give good Dmax with K6 black ink. Since you already have QTR, it might be worth printing the "calibration chart" at 100% ink limits to see if your specific printer is well matched with the supplied K6 curves. You should measure the black ink densities to see where it maxes out, and compare that number with the K6 curve Dmax.
> 
> But it is possible that Photorag (or Alise) will give you better Dmax anayway. I know the Epson paper does not gives the best Dmax with MIS Eboni ink. Maybe the same with K6 black ink also.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> >
> > After more than a year I finally resurrected my 1280 printer (unfixable clogged nozzles )by installing a new print head.  Works just great now and I can now use the K6/K7 inks.
> > 
> > After doing a few prints I'm happy with the QTR system but I'm not completely satisfied by the dMax I'm getting on Epson Premium Presentation Matte (my old standard).
> > 
> > Maybe I've outgrown the Epson paper.  What I'm looking for is a good paper with good dMax for use with the K6 inkset.  Unless I want to make my own profile it looks like I may be limited to the papers that Jon Cone supplies.
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend a good dMax paper?  How is the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or the new Premier Alise paper that Jon is advertising?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
>

>
> You make a good point Shilesh.  I should measure the Dmax of the paper and see what I am getting.  I have a spectro/densitometer so that is not a problem.
> 
> It could be that in the nearly two years that my Cone ink system has been down I have lost touch with the output.  While it was out I played around with using QTR on my Epson R1800 with regular OEM inks to make B&W prints.  The Dmax of the Epson inks was no doubt higher than the Cone inks so maybe I simply need to readjust my expectations.
> 
> I must say that I was always happy with the output from the Cone inks and the old PiezographyBW system with it's proprietary plug-in driver.  What I'm getting now still has that nice linear curve that can deliver detail in the shadows and highlights.  I just wish the pure black was a little "blacker".
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "shileshjani" <shileshjani@> wrote:
> >
> > What Dmax are you getting with the Epson paper? It is possible that this paper does not give good Dmax with K6 black ink. Since you already have QTR, it might be worth printing the "calibration chart" at 100% ink limits to see if your specific printer is well matched with the supplied K6 curves. You should measure the black ink densities to see where it maxes out, and compare that number with the K6 curve Dmax.
> > 
> > But it is possible that Photorag (or Alise) will give you better Dmax anayway. I know the Epson paper does not gives the best Dmax with MIS Eboni ink. Maybe the same with K6 black ink also.
> > 
> > Shilesh
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > After more than a year I finally resurrected my 1280 printer (unfixable clogged nozzles )by installing a new print head.  Works just great now and I can now use the K6/K7 inks.
> > > 
> > > After doing a few prints I'm happy with the QTR system but I'm not completely satisfied by the dMax I'm getting on Epson Premium Presentation Matte (my old standard).
> > > 
> > > Maybe I've outgrown the Epson paper.  What I'm looking for is a good paper with good dMax for use with the K6 inkset.  Unless I want to make my own profile it looks like I may be limited to the papers that Jon Cone supplies.
> > > 
> > > Can anyone recommend a good dMax paper?  How is the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or the new Premier Alise paper that Jon is advertising?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
>

>
> I used the 1280 too some years back. And I remember the EEM Dmax with MIS Eboni was not that great. But I also remember that I was getting wonderful Dmax on Hahnemuhle papers. You may want to use the Epson MK inks if plan to use Epson papers a lot.
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> >
> > You make a good point Shilesh.  I should measure the Dmax of the paper and see what I am getting.  I have a spectro/densitometer so that is not a problem.
> > 
> > It could be that in the nearly two years that my Cone ink system has been down I have lost touch with the output.  While it was out I played around with using QTR on my Epson R1800 with regular OEM inks to make B&W prints.  The Dmax of the Epson inks was no doubt higher than the Cone inks so maybe I simply need to readjust my expectations.
> > 
> > I must say that I was always happy with the output from the Cone inks and the old PiezographyBW system with it's proprietary plug-in driver.  What I'm getting now still has that nice linear curve that can deliver detail in the shadows and highlights.  I just wish the pure black was a little "blacker".
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "shileshjani" <shileshjani@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What Dmax are you getting with the Epson paper? It is possible that this paper does not give good Dmax with K6 black ink. Since you already have QTR, it might be worth printing the "calibration chart" at 100% ink limits to see if your specific printer is well matched with the supplied K6 curves. You should measure the black ink densities to see where it maxes out, and compare that number with the K6 curve Dmax.
> > > 
> > > But it is possible that Photorag (or Alise) will give you better Dmax anayway. I know the Epson paper does not gives the best Dmax with MIS Eboni ink. Maybe the same with K6 black ink also.
> > > 
> > > Shilesh
> > > 
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After more than a year I finally resurrected my 1280 printer (unfixable clogged nozzles )by installing a new print head.  Works just great now and I can now use the K6/K7 inks.
> > > > 
> > > > After doing a few prints I'm happy with the QTR system but I'm not completely satisfied by the dMax I'm getting on Epson Premium Presentation Matte (my old standard).
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe I've outgrown the Epson paper.  What I'm looking for is a good paper with good dMax for use with the K6 inkset.  Unless I want to make my own profile it looks like I may be limited to the papers that Jon Cone supplies.
> > > > 
> > > > Can anyone recommend a good dMax paper?  How is the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or the new Premier Alise paper that Jon is advertising?
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> In answer to the earlier suggestion, I printed out the QTR calibration ramps onto Epson Premium Presentation Matte with the Cone K6 ink.  After letting them dry for 2 days I measure the black ink using a Datacolor #1005 Spectrocolorimeter.
> 
> The black ink quickly ramped up to around d=1.46 by about 50% load and tapered off after that finally reaching d=1.53 at 95% load.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this combo that can say "yeah, that's about what to expect" or "no, you should get higher than that"?
> 
> Does anyone want to share what Dmax they get with other papers using the K6 inks?  Especially those that have Cone profiles for the 1280 included in the QTR distribution.
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "shileshjani" <shileshjani@> wrote:
> >
> > I used the 1280 too some years back. And I remember the EEM Dmax with MIS Eboni was not that great. But I also remember that I was getting wonderful Dmax on Hahnemuhle papers. You may want to use the Epson MK inks if plan to use Epson papers a lot.
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You make a good point Shilesh.  I should measure the Dmax of the paper and see what I am getting.  I have a spectro/densitometer so that is not a problem.
> > > 
> > > It could be that in the nearly two years that my Cone ink system has been down I have lost touch with the output.  While it was out I played around with using QTR on my Epson R1800 with regular OEM inks to make B&W prints.  The Dmax of the Epson inks was no doubt higher than the Cone inks so maybe I simply need to readjust my expectations.
> > > 
> > > I must say that I was always happy with the output from the Cone inks and the old PiezographyBW system with it's proprietary plug-in driver.  What I'm getting now still has that nice linear curve that can deliver detail in the shadows and highlights.  I just wish the pure black was a little "blacker".
> > > 
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "shileshjani" <shileshjani@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What Dmax are you getting with the Epson paper? It is possible that this paper does not give good Dmax with K6 black ink. Since you already have QTR, it might be worth printing the "calibration chart" at 100% ink limits to see if your specific printer is well matched with the supplied K6 curves. You should measure the black ink densities to see where it maxes out, and compare that number with the K6 curve Dmax.
> > > > 
> > > > But it is possible that Photorag (or Alise) will give you better Dmax anayway. I know the Epson paper does not gives the best Dmax with MIS Eboni ink. Maybe the same with K6 black ink also.
> > > > 
> > > > Shilesh
> > > > 
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton" <dawsonm@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > After more than a year I finally resurrected my 1280 printer (unfixable clogged nozzles )by installing a new print head.  Works just great now and I can now use the K6/K7 inks.
> > > > > 
> > > > > After doing a few prints I'm happy with the QTR system but I'm not completely satisfied by the dMax I'm getting on Epson Premium Presentation Matte (my old standard).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maybe I've outgrown the Epson paper.  What I'm looking for is a good paper with good dMax for use with the K6 inkset.  Unless I want to make my own profile it looks like I may be limited to the papers that Jon Cone supplies.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can anyone recommend a good dMax paper?  How is the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or the new Premier Alise paper that Jon is advertising?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> 
> 
> Below are some readings with K7 inks on a couple of papers. I just copied the last three lines of the QTR profile output.  Nothing systematic or comprehensive.  
> 
> The last time I bought Epson paper, I was amazed they have: 
> 
> Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte - a flat matte surface on a bright white non-glare paper.  Yields highly saturated images, while maintaining excellent highlight and shadow detail.  Available in sheets, rolls and posterboard.  Formerly Enhanced Matte.
> 10.3mil - 192gsm - 104  ISO Brightness - 94% Opacity - matte finish - pigment or DuraBrite ink
>  
> Epson Premium Presentation Paper Matte - a heavyweight, bright white ultra-smooth finish for long lasting non-glare photos.  This paper is also great for craft projects, signage and black-and-white photos.     Formerly Matte Paper Heavyweight
> 9.0mil - 167gsm - 97  ISO Brightness - 94% Opacity - matte finish - pigment or dye ink
>  
> Epson Presentation Paper Matte - bright white coated paper for newsletters, flyers and reports.  Formerly Photo Quality Inkjet Paper
> 4.9mil - 102gsm - 90  ISO Brightness - 90% Opacity - matte finish - pigment or dye ink
> 
> I thought your problem might be Ultra versus just regular ol' Premium, but the measurements I got with the Ultra aren't much different than your 1.53.
> 
> In all fairness, the blacks on the Ultra Premium don't look that weak. I was surprised that the numbers were as low as they were.
> 
> Measurements taken with an Eye-One.
> 
> H. Photo Rag:
> 
> 90.00	1.404	23.50	0.36	-0.59	-             L            b  |a                            +
> 95.00	1.545	19.45	0.53	-0.30	-          L                b | a                           +
> 100.00	1.709	15.23	0.27	0.22	-        L                    ba                            +
> 
> H. Museum Etching:
> 
> 96.00	1.448	22.19	0.28	-0.01	-            L               b|a                            +
> 98.00	1.513	20.32	0.48	0.24	-           L                 ba                            +
> 100.00	1.691	15.69	0.44	0.74	-        L                    |ab                           +
> 
>  The Museum etching that I have bleeds severely at this level of black.
> 
> Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Matte:
> 
> 96.00	1.547	19.37	0.94	1.93	-          L                  |  a   b                      +
> 98.00	1.562	18.99	0.85	1.82	-          L                  |  a   b                      +
> 100.00	1.567	18.84	0.99	1.65	-          L                  |  a  b     
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> ccolbertbw
>

>
> Thank you for that information.  It helps ease my mind somewhat.
> 
> In fact, I am referring to "Ultra Premium Presentation Matte" paper.  It looks like you are getting a Dm of 1.57 on that paper.  I have H. Museum Etching as well.  Haven't printed out a calibration ramp on that paper yet.
> 
> I find it interesting that the Epson paper loads up so quickly.  It reaches nearly 1.5 somewhere around 50% load and VERY gradually gets to Dmax.  Whereas it seems clear that the other papers are increasing in density right up to 100% load.  Well, maybe not that interesting.  It's why we need to profile the papers, afterall.  Right?
> 
> After doing a few more prints since my original post I think I agree with you.  The blacks aren't that bad on Epson matte.  I think it was my initial impression of my first print in going from the dye/pigment inks of my R1800 to pure pigment inks on matte.
> 
> Plus the print I made was not really processed optimally and was lacking in contrast.  The result was a print that seemed a little dull and life-less without any black punch.  My subsequent prints have looked pretty good.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Mike
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ccolbertbw" <ccolbert@> wrote:
> >
> >

>
> Great explanation, thank you for that. I am not aware of the  
> piezography site you are referring to, would you mind posting the  
> link, please?
> 
> Jakub Vosahlo
> 
> On 16.1.2010, at 22:01, "ccolbertbw" <ccolbert@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > One other small point that you may already be aware of: be sure that  
> > you are in fact laying down "black" values. Use the histogram tool  
> > in PS (hold down the control key while you move the slider) to see  
> > where the black pixels are. You may find that a vanishingly small  
> > number of pixels are actually near 100%.
> >
> > Somewhere on the piezography site there is a nice tutorial showing  
> > how to steepen the curve from about 90-100% to push more pixels into  
> > the deep blacks. Perceptually it can make a big difference. Good luck.
> > ccolbertbw
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dawsonmpleasanton"  
> > <dawsonm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for that information. It helps ease my mind somewhat.
> > >
> > > In fact, I am referring to "Ultra Premium Presentation Matte"  
> > paper. It looks like you are getting a Dm of 1.57 on that paper. I  
> > have H. Museum Etching as well. Haven't printed out a calibration  
> > ramp on that paper yet.
> > >
> > > I find it interesting that the Epson paper loads up so quickly. It  
> > reaches nearly 1.5 somewhere around 50% load and VERY gradually gets  
> > to Dmax. Whereas it seems clear that the other papers are increasing  
> > in density right up to 100% load. Well, maybe not that interesting.  
> > It's why we need to profile the papers, afterall. Right?
> > >
> > > After doing a few more prints since my original post I think I  
> > agree with you. The blacks aren't that bad on Epson matte. I think  
> > it was my initial impression of my first print in going from the dye/ 
> > pigment inks of my R1800 to pure pigment inks on matte.
> > >
> > > Plus the print I made was not really processed optimally and was  
> > lacking in contrast. The result was a print that seemed a little  
> > dull and life-less without any black punch. My subsequent prints  
> > have looked pretty good.
> > >
> > > Thanks again.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ccolbertbw" <ccolbert@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>