QTR-Quadtone RIP

For UT2 ink and the 1280 printer how many shades of gray are there? 
Going from dark to light it's Black, Magenta and Light Magenta right?
 Cyan and Light Cyan are toners, I think, but they look kind of gray
to me.  I couldn't find the information at the MIS site.

Also Curve Creator/Ink Setup shows six colors for EEnhMatte-cool-1.
The last Light Magenta (LM) is grayed out but has a density showing of
17.2 with no limit.  Does this mean it's not used?

I'm ready to tackle my 1280 after making my first curve for my 2200
and UC Ink.  I'm very pleased with the results and would like to thank
folks here for the help.

Tom

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" <thusband@s...> wrote:
> For UT2 ink and the 1280 printer how many shades of gray are there? 
> Going from dark to light it's Black, Magenta and Light Magenta right?
>  Cyan and Light Cyan are toners, I think, but they look kind of gray
> to me.  I couldn't find the information at the MIS site.
> 
> Also Curve Creator/Ink Setup shows six colors for EEnhMatte-cool-1.
> The last Light Magenta (LM) is grayed out but has a density showing of
> 17.2 with no limit.  Does this mean it's not used?
> 
> I'm ready to tackle my 1280 after making my first curve for my 2200
> and UC Ink.  I'm very pleased with the results and would like to thank
> folks here for the help.
> 
> Tom

Think I found it:

Black = Eboni
Cyan = Dark Gray
Light Cyan = Med. Gray
Yellow = Light Gray
Magenta = Blue Toner
Light Magenta = Light Blue Toner

Right?  Still don't understand why the LM is grayed out in the Ink Setup.

> Think I found it:
> 
> Black = Eboni
> Cyan = Dark Gray
> Light Cyan = Med. Gray
> Yellow = Light Gray
> Magenta = Blue Toner
> Light Magenta = Light Blue Toner
> 
> Right?  Still don't understand why the LM is grayed out in the Ink
Setup.

Nope.  Wrong.  Looking at the EEnhMatte-cool-1 curve it's Black,
Magenta and Light Magenta.  Still don't understand the two Light
Magentas though.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" <thusband@s...> wrote:
> For UT2 ink and the 1280 printer how many shades of gray are there? 
> Going from dark to light it's Black, Magenta and Light Magenta right?
>  Cyan and Light Cyan are toners, I think, but they look kind of gray
> to me.  I couldn't find the information at the MIS site.
> 
> Also Curve Creator/Ink Setup shows six colors for EEnhMatte-cool-1.
> The last Light Magenta (LM) is grayed out but has a density showing of
> 17.2 with no limit.  Does this mean it's not used?
> 
> I'm ready to tackle my 1280 after making my first curve for my 2200
> and UC Ink.  I'm very pleased with the results and would like to thank
> folks here for the help.
> 
> Tom

Hi Tom,

The UT2 inkset is really two sets of inks.  There's black (which is a bit warm),
2 warm grays and 2 cool grays.  Then Y is usually a sepia ink but sometimes its
replaced with light gray (probably warmish).   So for the profiles the grays
are usually K, M, LM and possibly Y.  Then use the toner section to do a set
of cool grays that you mix in.   When you get down to it there are a lot of
combinations of how you can use the inks.   I highly recommend starting with
the existing profiles.  See how the profiles are structured and how the generated 
curves look.   In fact if you just want different papers you can probably just
re-linearize existing ones rather than starting from scratch.

Roy

> Hi Tom,
> 
> The UT2 inkset is really two sets of inks.  There's black (which is
a bit warm),
> 2 warm grays and 2 cool grays.  Then Y is usually a sepia ink but
sometimes its
> replaced with light gray (probably warmish).   So for the profiles
the grays
> are usually K, M, LM and possibly Y.  Then use the toner section to
do a set
> of cool grays that you mix in.   When you get down to it there are a
lot of
> combinations of how you can use the inks.   I highly recommend
starting with
> the existing profiles.  See how the profiles are structured and how
the generated 
> curves look.   In fact if you just want different papers you can
probably just
> re-linearize existing ones rather than starting from scratch.
> 
> Roy

Thanks Roy,

So when you buy the UT2 inkset from MIS it can come with different
inks or are you referring to folks who fill empty carts?  I'll play
around with some existing profiles and see what comes up.

Tom

Tom

Hi Tom,

I'm currently using a modified set of UT-2 inks in a 1280. The  
standard set comes with the sepia toner. So, I believe the only way  
you can use other inks is if you do your own filling/refilling or use  
a CIS system. But, with the spongeless clear carts, it's been well  
worth it for me, that is, extremely cost effective (approx. 10  
refills = less than $10 to refill both carts).

Personally, I'm using the UT-FSN-Y (Full Spectrum Neutral, Yellow),  
which is a very light gray, that has been cooled in order to have 4  
densities. I generally prefer my prints to be a little cooler, sort  
of towards a selenium tone, so that ink works well for me (It also  
works well with entirely warm curves as it is generally rather  
neutral). But, you can use the UT-FS-Y (warmer, but still very light)  
if you prefer. In general, the color of the paper, will somewhat  
overpower the tone of the lightest gray, so that the tone of the ink  
has a very subtle effect. Also, Paul suggests some other  
possibilities, like using the LM again in the yellow position, which  
shifts the possible tones a little cooler than with the sepia, or  
using GLOP (gloss optimizer) if you're planning on printing a lot of  
glossy/semi-gloss prints. You can find more info on his website  
(under ink positions),

http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT2-Readme.htm

Using the light grays takes a little tweaking of the curves but it's  
pretty simple to do. You just add another grey ink in the descriptor  
file with an appropriate percentage, and QTR does the rest.

Regards,

Eric
www.ericashworth.net

> So when you buy the UT2 inkset from MIS it can come with different
> inks or are you referring to folks who fill empty carts?  I'll play
> around with some existing profiles and see what comes up.
>
> Tom

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> 
> I'm currently using a modified set of UT-2 inks in a 1280. The  
> standard set comes with the sepia toner. So, I believe the only way  
> you can use other inks is if you do your own filling/refilling or use  
> a CIS system. But, with the spongeless clear carts, it's been well  
> worth it for me, that is, extremely cost effective (approx. 10  
> refills = less than $10 to refill both carts).
> 
> Personally, I'm using the UT-FSN-Y (Full Spectrum Neutral, Yellow),  
> which is a very light gray, that has been cooled in order to have 4  
> densities. I generally prefer my prints to be a little cooler, sort  
> of towards a selenium tone, so that ink works well for me (It also  
> works well with entirely warm curves as it is generally rather  
> neutral). But, you can use the UT-FS-Y (warmer, but still very light)  
> if you prefer. In general, the color of the paper, will somewhat  
> overpower the tone of the lightest gray, so that the tone of the ink  
> has a very subtle effect. Also, Paul suggests some other  
> possibilities, like using the LM again in the yellow position, which  
> shifts the possible tones a little cooler than with the sepia, or  
> using GLOP (gloss optimizer) if you're planning on printing a lot of  
> glossy/semi-gloss prints. You can find more info on his website  
> (under ink positions),
> 
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT2-Readme.htm
> 
> Using the light grays takes a little tweaking of the curves but it's  
> pretty simple to do. You just add another grey ink in the descriptor  
> file with an appropriate percentage, and QTR does the rest.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Eric
> www.ericashworth.net

Thanks Eric!  Very good information.  I'm going to look into the
spongeless carts and ink combination you suggested.  I prefer my
prints on the cool side too and refilling will allow a lot more
experimentation.

Thanks again,

Tom

Eric Ashworth  wrote:
> Personally, I'm using the UT-FSN-Y (Full Spectrum Neutral, Yellow),  
> which is a very light gray, that has been cooled in order to have 4  
> densities.

Hi Eric,

I just changed my 1280 from MIS' CFS to the spongeless carts using UT 2 inks. I also 
switched the sepia ink to the lightest full-spectrum gray ink... but used the warmer ink 
(UT- FS-Y).

I was suprised how light the ink is compared to the next lightest gray ink. Do you find an 
improvment in the highlights as the orginal 1280/ UT2 ink set did an admiral job to begin 
with.

I'm going to build a few profiles using a scanner as I don't have a densitomer yet. But I was 
wondering if you could email me any profiles with the new light gray to get me in the 
ballpark?

I'm on a Mac.

Best,

John V.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...> wrote:
> Hi John,

.... I just picked up an x-rite 32R and am just learning how to use it. 
> Unfortunately, the built in display apparently only shows the density  
> to the hundredths place and the additional accuracy (thousandths) is  
> only available if you've got it hooked up to a computer?!, so I'm  
> having to tweak the results slightly in a trial and error process.

> > Best,
> >
> > John V.

I noticed that my used X-rite 810 only goes out two decimal places not
three as shown in Tom Moore's instructions.  Is there something I
missed?  I downloaded the manual from X-rite but don't see where
that's adjustable.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

In the configuration sequence for the DTP-32R, there is an option to  
include an additional digit of accuracy when the data is being  
transmitted to a computer via the rs-232 cable or something similar.  
It might be the same with the 810. Why they can't display the third  
digit on the device is beyond me!? (marketing, I assume. Got to make  
sure you're getting the extra stuff.) I guess I'll be looking into  
the serial to usb options and learning another piece of software  
(yeah . . . ;-P) Truth is, I really need to look through the manual  
again, just to make sure there isn't some way to do it with the  
device display. Anyway, good luck.

Regards,

Eric
www.ericashworth.net

On Sep 11, 2005, at 6:21 AM, Tom Husband wrote:

> I noticed that my used X-rite 810 only goes out two decimal places not
> three as shown in Tom Moore's instructions.  Is there something I
> missed?  I downloaded the manual from X-rite but don't see where
> that's adjustable.

Eric Ashworth  wrote:
> As for curves, I'm in the process of building/fine tuning mine right  
> now, and would be more than willing to make them available for  
> download on my website, as soon as I've got them done in the next  
> couple days. Right now, I'm only using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (188  
> gsm), Epson Premium Glossy, Epson Semi-Gloss and Illuminata Photo  
> Cotton (Cool tone), 

Thanks Eric, the above curves are a good start for me. I use Photo Rag but will be testing 
the Illuminata line too. Let me know when you have curves to share.

> I just picked up an x-rite 32R and am just learning how to use it.  
> Unfortunately, the built in display apparently only shows the density  
> to the hundredths place and the additional accuracy (thousandths) is  
> only available if you've got it hooked up to a computer?!, so I'm  
> having to tweak the results slightly in a trial and error process.

I also have a x-rite 32R...but need a calibration card. Didn't know the density shows only 
to hundredths on the display. I have the 418-79 serial cable but I guess I'll need a USB 
adapter. I posted the below from X-Rite tech support regarding the best usb adapters a 
few weeks ago, it might help you selecting the best serial to usb adapter:

"Note that not all Keyspan adapters are alike. Under OSX we have found the
older Keyspan USA 28 (beige) adapter typically do not work well. We have
also found that "PDA adapters" do not work consistently either. We have had
continued success with the Mac only Keyspan USA-28x and the cross-platform
USA19QW or USA19HS models."

RayC
-- 
Raymond Cheydleur
OEM Application Specialist
developer support
X-Rite Incorporated

--------------------------------------------------------

The Keyspan USA-28x can be had for about $30.00 on Amazon. There's a guy selling 
them as new/used.


> In the meantime, I should think you'd have pretty good results, even  
> without using the scanner, by just opening one of the UT-2 curves for  
> the paper you're using, and add the fourth gray ink with a value  
> somewhere in the range of 6-8%, then building the new curve. I should  
> think the linearization would still be pretty close. 

Cool...I'll give it a try!

Best,

John V.

Hi John,

Had some unexpected complications come up and haven't been able to  
get to the curves just yet.  Will have them done no later than the  
end of this weekend, but hopefully sooner. Will let you know.

Best regards,

Eric,
www.ericashworth.net

On Sep 12, 2005, at 1:09 PM, John Vitollo wrote:

> Eric Ashworth  wrote:
> > As for curves, I'm in the process of building/fine tuning mine right
> > now, and would be more than willing to make them available for
> > download on my website, as soon as I've got them done in the next
> > couple days. Right now, I'm only using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (188
> > gsm), Epson Premium Glossy, Epson Semi-Gloss and Illuminata Photo
> > Cotton (Cool tone),
>
> Thanks Eric, the above curves are a good start for me. I use Photo  
> Rag but will be testing
> the Illuminata line too. Let me know when you have curves to share.

Eric Ashworth  wrote:
> Had some unexpected complications come up and haven't been able to  
> get to the curves just yet.  Will have them done no later than the  
> end of this weekend, but hopefully sooner. Will let you know.

No rush Eric...I'm going out of town for the weekend so won't have a chance to play with the 
curves. Many thanks!

John V.