QTR-Quadtone RIP

I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is about how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.

Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to profile K7"?

Thanks
Aaron

Aaron,

It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the Piezography Profiler.

Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three blacks, but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.

We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR compatible set of numbers.

We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#

You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to us. We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.

regards,

Jon Cone
Piezography
InkjetMall



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@...> wrote:

>
> I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is about how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> 
> Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to profile K7"?
> 
> Thanks
> Aaron
>

One person's experience:

I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000. This on a Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved "success," with caveats.

The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the numbers within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And because I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way, several times I made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time consuming. Many, many, many patterns printed. 

I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it myself was because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary files to profile an old 7000.

After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect. So a slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image. 

This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer. I'll never again do it myself, however!

Jp




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "piezobw" <jon@...> wrote:

>
> Aaron,
> 
> It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the Piezography Profiler.
> 
> Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three blacks, but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> 
> We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR compatible set of numbers.
> 
> We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> 
> http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> 
> You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to us. We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Jon Cone
> Piezography
> InkjetMall
> 
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is about how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > 
> > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to profile K7"?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Aaron
> >
>

So profiling / linearizing  K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually etc. and
then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex) excel
spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now for
myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s.  Perfect linearization first
time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.

The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time, each
paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful to be
able to relinearize at low cost anytime.

I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to undermine
Jon's profiling business,
as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
requires you to have your own spectro.

Mike




On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> One person's experience:
>
> I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000. This on a
> Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> "success," with caveats.
>
> The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the numbers
> within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And because
> I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way, several times I
> made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time consuming.
> Many, many, many patterns printed.
>
> I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it myself was
> because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary files to
> profile an old 7000.
>
> After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect. So a
> slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
>
> This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer. I'll never
> again do it myself, however!
>
> Jp
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "piezobw" <jon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Aaron,
> >
> > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have
> attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the Piezography
> Profiler.
> >
> > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three blacks,
> but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining
> maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> >
> > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> compatible set of numbers.
> >
> > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> >
> >
> http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> >
> > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to us.
> We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Jon Cone
> > Piezography
> > InkjetMall
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is about
> how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > >
> > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to
> profile K7"?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Aaron
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike,

Thanks for your concern - but please disclose your method. Our profiling is a service rather than a business model. There are many people who simply like to do it on their own. You have some process that anyone can port to a spread sheet. Sounds great!

I find a lot of people who are wanting to make negative curves (for example) are looking for a from-the-ground-up process to follow. They want to know how to start from scratch and use the QTR tools to build a set of 6 or 7 curves.

Unfortunately my profiler can not make curves which are editable in QTR. 

Regards,

Jon




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> So profiling / linearizing  K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
> simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually etc. and
> then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex) excel
> spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now for
> myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s.  Perfect linearization first
> time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.
> 
> The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time, each
> paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful to be
> able to relinearize at low cost anytime.
> 
> I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to undermine
> Jon's profiling business,
> as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
> requires you to have your own spectro.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > One person's experience:
> >
> > I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000. This on a
> > Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> > "success," with caveats.
> >
> > The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the numbers
> > within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And because
> > I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way, several times I
> > made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time consuming.
> > Many, many, many patterns printed.
> >
> > I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it myself was
> > because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary files to
> > profile an old 7000.
> >
> > After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect. So a
> > slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
> >
> > This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer. I'll never
> > again do it myself, however!
> >
> > Jp
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "piezobw" <jon@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Aaron,
> > >
> > > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have
> > attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the Piezography
> > Profiler.
> > >
> > > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three blacks,
> > but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining
> > maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> > >
> > > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> > compatible set of numbers.
> > >
> > > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> > >
> > >
> > http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> > >
> > > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to us.
> > We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Jon Cone
> > > Piezography
> > > InkjetMall
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is about
> > how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > > >
> > > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to
> > profile K7"?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Aaron
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Jon,

Ok I will do, but it will be a few weeks as I am snowed under right now.
Probably have time during the holidays.

But just to be clear to everyone, the standard QTR methodology for profiling
/linearizing is fine for doing what it does and there is plenty of
information on this forum how to do that. What it can't do (as far as I can
tell) is relinearize a set of curves that have already been linearized. And
it can't handle K7 curves or any other curves other than data created
through QTR.

Also QTR can only generate what I think of as limited overlapped curves.
I've had problems with posterization that disappeared with greater
overlapped curves more like Jon's K7.

What I can do is take a QTR quad file and a printed target and linearize
that quad file with the target data.
Of course there are some caveats as with QTR and Jon's profiling, such as
there mustn't be any reversals in the data set.

Anyway more in a few weeks.

Mike

On 8 December 2010 20:50, piezobw <jon@...> wrote:

>
>
> Mike,
>
> Thanks for your concern - but please disclose your method. Our profiling is
> a service rather than a business model. There are many people who simply
> like to do it on their own. You have some process that anyone can port to a
> spread sheet. Sounds great!
>
> I find a lot of people who are wanting to make negative curves (for
> example) are looking for a from-the-ground-up process to follow. They want
> to know how to start from scratch and use the QTR tools to build a set of 6
> or 7 curves.
>
> Unfortunately my profiler can not make curves which are editable in QTR.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > So profiling / linearizing K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
> > simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually etc.
> and
> > then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex) excel
> > spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now for
> > myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s. Perfect linearization first
> > time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.
> >
> > The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time,
> each
> > paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful to
> be
> > able to relinearize at low cost anytime.
> >
> > I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to
> undermine
> > Jon's profiling business,
> > as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
> > requires you to have your own spectro.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One person's experience:
> > >
> > > I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000. This
> on a
> > > Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> > > "success," with caveats.
> > >
> > > The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the numbers
> > > within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And
> because
> > > I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way, several
> times I
> > > made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time
> consuming.
> > > Many, many, many patterns printed.
> > >
> > > I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it myself
> was
> > > because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary
> files to
> > > profile an old 7000.
> > >
> > > After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect. So a
> > > slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
> > >
> > > This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer. I'll
> never
> > > again do it myself, however!
> > >
> > > Jp
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > "piezobw" <jon@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Aaron,
> > > >
> > > > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have
> > > attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the
> Piezography
> > > Profiler.
> > > >
> > > > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three
> blacks,
> > > but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining
> > > maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> > > >
> > > > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> > > compatible set of numbers.
> > > >
> > > > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> > > >
> > > > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to
> us.
> > > We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > >
> > > > Jon Cone
> > > > Piezography
> > > > InkjetMall
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is
> about
> > > how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to
> > > profile K7"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Aaron
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike,

Aaron is looking for a way to make K7 curves from the ground up. Aaron wants to learn how to make K7 curves using QTR tools or some other method. In other words, where nothing previously existed, he wants to have a curve or profile that can handle the K7 inks. 

You wrote in your first response that you can profile K7. Did you mean to say that, or did you mean to say that you can only linearize a pre-existing set of curves or a pre-existing .quad file that someone else has made?

I'm a little confused by your two responses.

Regards,

Jon





--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Jon,
> 
> Ok I will do, but it will be a few weeks as I am snowed under right now.
> Probably have time during the holidays.
> 
> But just to be clear to everyone, the standard QTR methodology for profiling
> /linearizing is fine for doing what it does and there is plenty of
> information on this forum how to do that. What it can't do (as far as I can
> tell) is relinearize a set of curves that have already been linearized. And
> it can't handle K7 curves or any other curves other than data created
> through QTR.
> 
> Also QTR can only generate what I think of as limited overlapped curves.
> I've had problems with posterization that disappeared with greater
> overlapped curves more like Jon's K7.
> 
> What I can do is take a QTR quad file and a printed target and linearize
> that quad file with the target data.
> Of course there are some caveats as with QTR and Jon's profiling, such as
> there mustn't be any reversals in the data set.
> 
> Anyway more in a few weeks.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 8 December 2010 20:50, piezobw <jon@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Thanks for your concern - but please disclose your method. Our profiling is
> > a service rather than a business model. There are many people who simply
> > like to do it on their own. You have some process that anyone can port to a
> > spread sheet. Sounds great!
> >
> > I find a lot of people who are wanting to make negative curves (for
> > example) are looking for a from-the-ground-up process to follow. They want
> > to know how to start from scratch and use the QTR tools to build a set of 6
> > or 7 curves.
> >
> > Unfortunately my profiler can not make curves which are editable in QTR.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So profiling / linearizing K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
> > > simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually etc.
> > and
> > > then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex) excel
> > > spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now for
> > > myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s. Perfect linearization first
> > > time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.
> > >
> > > The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time,
> > each
> > > paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful to
> > be
> > > able to relinearize at low cost anytime.
> > >
> > > I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to
> > undermine
> > > Jon's profiling business,
> > > as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
> > > requires you to have your own spectro.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > One person's experience:
> > > >
> > > > I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000. This
> > on a
> > > > Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> > > > "success," with caveats.
> > > >
> > > > The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the numbers
> > > > within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And
> > because
> > > > I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way, several
> > times I
> > > > made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time
> > consuming.
> > > > Many, many, many patterns printed.
> > > >
> > > > I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it myself
> > was
> > > > because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary
> > files to
> > > > profile an old 7000.
> > > >
> > > > After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect. So a
> > > > slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
> > > >
> > > > This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer. I'll
> > never
> > > > again do it myself, however!
> > > >
> > > > Jp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "piezobw" <jon@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Aaron,
> > > > >
> > > > > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who have
> > > > attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the
> > Piezography
> > > > Profiler.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three
> > blacks,
> > > > but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of determining
> > > > maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> > > > >
> > > > > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> > > > compatible set of numbers.
> > > > >
> > > > > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> > > > >
> > > > > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it to
> > us.
> > > > We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> > > > >
> > > > > regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon Cone
> > > > > Piezography
> > > > > InkjetMall
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which is
> > about
> > > > how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how to
> > > > profile K7"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Aaron
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Jon,

>>Aaron is looking for a way to make K7 curves from the ground up. Aaron
wants to learn how to make K7 curves using QTR tools or some other method.
In other words, where nothing previously existed, he wants to have a curve
or profile that can handle the K7 inks

So there is plenty of info for Aaron on how to use QTR for K6/7 from the
ground up in the archives of this forum. But personally I would just take
your profile K7 .quad for his printer and use my linearisation rather than
bothering to go through the whole ink limits process. Essentially the same
as I believe you would do with your linearizer.

What I have a is a tool that can linearise a b&w .quad file.
That .quad file can come from any source. It can be an existing K6/7 .quad
or a QTR generated .quad file, or a hand crafted .quad file.

QTR and your linearizer create perfectly good .quad files. But what is
missing for the end user is the ability to easily relinearize an existing
.quad themselves, for many reasons  - because no K7 or QTR profile is going
to be truly linear on a printer other than the one it was created on, also
when their paper/ink batch has changed, their printer has changed (sharing
profiles) or aged, their environmental conditions have changed (summer /
winter) or they are using a similar but different paper - all
these perturb the linearisation.

Hope that better explains what I have.

Mike




On 10 December 2010 20:02, piezobw <jon@...> wrote:

>
>
> Mike,
>
> Aaron is looking for a way to make K7 curves from the ground up. Aaron
> wants to learn how to make K7 curves using QTR tools or some other method.
> In other words, where nothing previously existed, he wants to have a curve
> or profile that can handle the K7 inks.
>
> You wrote in your first response that you can profile K7. Did you mean to
> say that, or did you mean to say that you can only linearize a pre-existing
> set of curves or a pre-existing .quad file that someone else has made?
>
> I'm a little confused by your two responses.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jon,
> >
> > Ok I will do, but it will be a few weeks as I am snowed under right now.
> > Probably have time during the holidays.
> >
> > But just to be clear to everyone, the standard QTR methodology for
> profiling
> > /linearizing is fine for doing what it does and there is plenty of
> > information on this forum how to do that. What it can't do (as far as I
> can
> > tell) is relinearize a set of curves that have already been linearized.
> And
> > it can't handle K7 curves or any other curves other than data created
> > through QTR.
> >
> > Also QTR can only generate what I think of as limited overlapped curves.
> > I've had problems with posterization that disappeared with greater
> > overlapped curves more like Jon's K7.
> >
> > What I can do is take a QTR quad file and a printed target and linearize
> > that quad file with the target data.
> > Of course there are some caveats as with QTR and Jon's profiling, such as
> > there mustn't be any reversals in the data set.
> >
> > Anyway more in a few weeks.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 8 December 2010 20:50, piezobw <jon@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your concern - but please disclose your method. Our
> profiling is
> > > a service rather than a business model. There are many people who
> simply
> > > like to do it on their own. You have some process that anyone can port
> to a
> > > spread sheet. Sounds great!
> > >
> > > I find a lot of people who are wanting to make negative curves (for
> > > example) are looking for a from-the-ground-up process to follow. They
> want
> > > to know how to start from scratch and use the QTR tools to build a set
> of 6
> > > or 7 curves.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately my profiler can not make curves which are editable in
> QTR.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So profiling / linearizing K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
> > > > simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually
> etc.
> > > and
> > > > then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex)
> excel
> > > > spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now
> for
> > > > myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s. Perfect linearization
> first
> > > > time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.
> > > >
> > > > The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time,
> > > each
> > > > paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful
> to
> > > be
> > > > able to relinearize at low cost anytime.
> > > >
> > > > I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to
> > > undermine
> > > > Jon's profiling business,
> > > > as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
> > > > requires you to have your own spectro.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One person's experience:
> > > > >
> > > > > I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000.
> This
> > > on a
> > > > > Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> > > > > "success," with caveats.
> > > > >
> > > > > The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the
> numbers
> > > > > within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And
> > > because
> > > > > I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way,
> several
> > > times I
> > > > > made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time
> > > consuming.
> > > > > Many, many, many patterns printed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it
> myself
> > > was
> > > > > because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary
> > > files to
> > > > > profile an old 7000.
> > > > >
> > > > > After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect.
> So a
> > > > > slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
> > > > >
> > > > > This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer.
> I'll
> > > never
> > > > > again do it myself, however!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jp
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
>
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > >
> > > > > "piezobw" <jon@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Aaron,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who
> have
> > > > > attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the
> > > Piezography
> > > > > Profiler.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three
> > > blacks,
> > > > > but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of
> determining
> > > > > maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> > > > > compatible set of numbers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it
> to
> > > us.
> > > > > We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon Cone
> > > > > > Piezography
> > > > > > InkjetMall
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com<QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
>
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > >
> > > > > "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which
> is
> > > about
> > > > > how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how
> to
> > > > > profile K7"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Aaron
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes that better explains what you have. I had misunderstood your original post. 

Still I think that if you publish your technique it will add to the knowledge of others!

Thanks,

Jon

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Jon,
> 
> >>Aaron is looking for a way to make K7 curves from the ground up. Aaron
> wants to learn how to make K7 curves using QTR tools or some other method.
> In other words, where nothing previously existed, he wants to have a curve
> or profile that can handle the K7 inks
> 
> So there is plenty of info for Aaron on how to use QTR for K6/7 from the
> ground up in the archives of this forum. But personally I would just take
> your profile K7 .quad for his printer and use my linearisation rather than
> bothering to go through the whole ink limits process. Essentially the same
> as I believe you would do with your linearizer.
> 
> What I have a is a tool that can linearise a b&w .quad file.
> That .quad file can come from any source. It can be an existing K6/7 .quad
> or a QTR generated .quad file, or a hand crafted .quad file.
> 
> QTR and your linearizer create perfectly good .quad files. But what is
> missing for the end user is the ability to easily relinearize an existing
> .quad themselves, for many reasons  - because no K7 or QTR profile is going
> to be truly linear on a printer other than the one it was created on, also
> when their paper/ink batch has changed, their printer has changed (sharing
> profiles) or aged, their environmental conditions have changed (summer /
> winter) or they are using a similar but different paper - all
> these perturb the linearisation.
> 
> Hope that better explains what I have.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10 December 2010 20:02, piezobw <jon@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Aaron is looking for a way to make K7 curves from the ground up. Aaron
> > wants to learn how to make K7 curves using QTR tools or some other method.
> > In other words, where nothing previously existed, he wants to have a curve
> > or profile that can handle the K7 inks.
> >
> > You wrote in your first response that you can profile K7. Did you mean to
> > say that, or did you mean to say that you can only linearize a pre-existing
> > set of curves or a pre-existing .quad file that someone else has made?
> >
> > I'm a little confused by your two responses.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > Ok I will do, but it will be a few weeks as I am snowed under right now.
> > > Probably have time during the holidays.
> > >
> > > But just to be clear to everyone, the standard QTR methodology for
> > profiling
> > > /linearizing is fine for doing what it does and there is plenty of
> > > information on this forum how to do that. What it can't do (as far as I
> > can
> > > tell) is relinearize a set of curves that have already been linearized.
> > And
> > > it can't handle K7 curves or any other curves other than data created
> > > through QTR.
> > >
> > > Also QTR can only generate what I think of as limited overlapped curves.
> > > I've had problems with posterization that disappeared with greater
> > > overlapped curves more like Jon's K7.
> > >
> > > What I can do is take a QTR quad file and a printed target and linearize
> > > that quad file with the target data.
> > > Of course there are some caveats as with QTR and Jon's profiling, such as
> > > there mustn't be any reversals in the data set.
> > >
> > > Anyway more in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > On 8 December 2010 20:50, piezobw <jon@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your concern - but please disclose your method. Our
> > profiling is
> > > > a service rather than a business model. There are many people who
> > simply
> > > > like to do it on their own. You have some process that anyone can port
> > to a
> > > > spread sheet. Sounds great!
> > > >
> > > > I find a lot of people who are wanting to make negative curves (for
> > > > example) are looking for a from-the-ground-up process to follow. They
> > want
> > > > to know how to start from scratch and use the QTR tools to build a set
> > of 6
> > > > or 7 curves.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately my profiler can not make curves which are editable in
> > QTR.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So profiling / linearizing K7 or any QTR curve set, is actually very
> > > > > simple. I scratched my head for 12 months, tried doing it manually
> > etc.
> > > > and
> > > > > then one day the light bulb went off and a quick (slightly complex)
> > excel
> > > > > spreadsheet and I was sorted. Been using it for a couple years now
> > for
> > > > > myself and friends on 4800/7880 and 1900s. Perfect linearization
> > first
> > > > > time, every time. Of course you need a spectro.
> > > > >
> > > > > The advantage to doing it yourself is that printers change over time,
> > > > each
> > > > > paper batch is different, each ink batch is different, so its useful
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > able to relinearize at low cost anytime.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been reluctant to disclose the method because I don't want to
> > > > undermine
> > > > > Jon's profiling business,
> > > > > as from what I have seen its every bit as good as what Jon does, just
> > > > > requires you to have your own spectro.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8 December 2010 16:16, jespes <jesse@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One person's experience:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I successfully made a K6 profile using QTR for an old Epson 7000.
> > This
> > > > on a
> > > > > > Mac. I followed the basic instructions, taught myself, and achieved
> > > > > > "success," with caveats.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The caveats: It took much manual tweaking/guesstimating of the
> > numbers
> > > > > > within the profile file itself to get it close to "linearized." And
> > > > because
> > > > > > I found I had to finely tweak/guesstimate manually this way,
> > several
> > > > times I
> > > > > > made a total mess of it and had to start from scratch. Very time
> > > > consuming.
> > > > > > Many, many, many patterns printed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd pay someone to do it in an instant. The only reason I did it
> > myself
> > > > was
> > > > > > because the Piezography team said they no longer had the necessary
> > > > files to
> > > > > > profile an old 7000.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After all my exertions, the profile is functional but not perfect.
> > So a
> > > > > > slight Photoshop curve must also be applied to the image.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This laborious process gets me a low-cost, large-format printer.
> > I'll
> > > > never
> > > > > > again do it myself, however!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jp
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> >
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > >
> > > > > > "piezobw" <jon@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aaron,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It may be too complex for there to be a guide on it. Those who
> > have
> > > > > > attempted are not able to make profiles to the quality of the
> > > > Piezography
> > > > > > Profiler.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having said that, the process is similar to the making of three
> > > > blacks,
> > > > > > but involves seven blacks. You follow the same structure of
> > determining
> > > > > > maximum usefulink density on each channel and going from there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We use our own software which then compiles the results as a QTR
> > > > > > compatible set of numbers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We do offer customs on the inkjetmall website here:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3682/.f?sc=15&category=-115#
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You use our Master Curve, print the 256 patch target, and mail it
> > to
> > > > us.
> > > > > > We measure it - email you back the QTR curve. It is $99 each.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jon Cone
> > > > > > > Piezography
> > > > > > > InkjetMall
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com<QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> >
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > >
> > > > > > "hongwanglinux" <chanhongwang@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I've been searching for a while but only found some docs which
> > is
> > > > about
> > > > > > how to profile the K3 inkset but not the K7 inks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is there any instruction documentation which is about the "how
> > to
> > > > > > profile K7"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > Aaron
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>