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An abstract question

2007-05-30 by Chris Muir

Without custom panels, is Serge a really a modular synth?

-C

--
Chris Muir | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@... | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com | and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

Re: An abstract question

2007-05-31 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

This is also a question and discussion/arguement that has been beat to death over the years. The true believers will say that there is no difference between a shop and a custom panel as far as the "modular-ness" of it is concerned. The purist will argue ( with some validity ) that the Serge format is not a true modular because of the single panel paradigm. The whole thing is moot. You either like it or you don't and you view it as one way or the other. In the end (musically) it matters not.

jduval

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-------------- Original message --------------
From: Chris Muir <cbm@...>

Without custom panels, is Serge a really a modular synth?

-C

--
Chris Muir | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@... | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade. com | and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by amnesia

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by Yulian Pugachevsky

Hi Ross,

IMO, Encore Electronics Expressionist is the way to go. For its feature set, simplicity, quality of construction, but mostly for its 16bit DACs all around (everyone else is at 12bit at most and some even at 8bit).

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html

hope this helps

yulian.

On 30-May-07, at 9:47 PM, amnesia wrote:

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by matthew carpenter

Another vote for the Encore Expressionist. Only thing it didn't support that I was interested it, is microtuning. The MOTM unit is the only one I know of that does.

On 5/31/07, Yulian Pugachevsky <yulian.p@...> wrote:

Hi Ross,

IMO, Encore Electronics Expressionist is the way to go. For its feature set, simplicity, quality of construction, but mostly for its 16bit DACs all around (everyone else is at 12bit at most and some even at 8bit).

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html

hope this helps

yulian.

On 30-May-07, at 9:47 PM, amnesia wrote:

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by Musique Non Stop

What about the Doepfer MCV24??

From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthew carpenter
Sent: 31 May 2007 14:19
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] whats a good midi box for the serge

Another vote for the Encore Expressionist. Only thing it didn't support that I was interested it, is microtuning. The MOTM unit is the only one I know of that does.

On 5/31/07, Yulian Pugachevsky <yulian.p@...> wrote:

Hi Ross,

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html

hope this helps

yulian.

On 30-May-07, at 9:47 PM, amnesia wrote:

>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by Yulian Pugachevsky

My only beef with the MCV24 is that out of the 24 outputs, 4 are at 12bit and 20 at 8bit (which kinda sucks ;)

What's nice however is that you can configure the outputs to be gates or CVs, so you could have 15 gates and 9 CV if you wanted to..

The price range is about the same for the Doepfer and Encore.. I actually tested the MCV24 prior to ordering the Expressionist and opted for the latter

yulian.

On 31-May-07, at 8:20 AM, Musique Non Stop wrote:

What about the Doepfer MCV24??

From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of matthew carpenter
Sent: 31 May 2007 14:19
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] whats a good midi box for the serge

Another vote for the Encore Expressionist. Only thing it didn't support that I was interested it, is microtuning. The MOTM unit is the only one I know of that does.
On 5/31/07, Yulian Pugachevsky <yulian.p@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ross,

IMO, Encore Electronics Expressionist is the way to go. For its feature set, simplicity, quality of construction, but mostly for its 16bit DACs all around (everyone else is at 12bit at most and some even at 8bit).

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html

hope this helps

yulian.

On 30-May-07, at 9:47 PM, amnesia wrote:

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-05-31 by Kim Hansen

Hi Ross

As i read it you're not asking about midi to cv conversion,
but about what midi/computer setups we use ?

- I use Logic Pro on a dual G4

- it's ok for the slow stuff and sad songs but the midi timing really
isn't very
good. - if i wanted/needed fast, tight midi i'd get a hardware
sequencer instead/also

all the best, - Kim

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On May 31, 2007, at 3:47 AM, amnesia wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
> Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.
>
> I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
> ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
> havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
> early 90s.
>
> ross
> >
> >
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-06-01 by Yulian Pugachevsky

Kim,

I too use LogicPro on a MacBookPro (and have been using it since Apple acquired EMagic).. never noticed any MIDI latency issues (.. and no, i dont make slow and sad muisic ;).. the only thing that comes to mind when speaking of latency in Logic are the buses, since (and go figure out why) there is no latency compensation. What I mean is that if you apply a plug-in as an insert to a track (which will play fine) vs. applying it as an insert to a bus and routing a given track to that bus (which will cause latency).

Also, if you're controlling analogue gear via MIDI->CV, one should keep in mind the latency introduced by interface itself

... but if you are looking for a computer with REALLY tight MIDI timing, you may want to look into an old ATARI (520, 1040, Mega or Stacy).. these are really unbeatable and can rival any hardware MIDI seq... but MIDI-only ;)

yulian.

On 31-May-07, at 4:31 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:

Hi Ross

As i read it you're not asking about midi to cv conversion,
but about what midi/computer setups we use ?

- I use Logic Pro on a dual G4

- it's ok for the slow stuff and sad songs but the midi timing really isn't very
good. - if i wanted/needed fast, tight midi i'd get a hardware sequencer instead/also

all the best, - Kim

On May 31, 2007, at 3:47 AM, amnesia wrote:

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-06-01 by Kim Hansen

Yulian,

i'm not talking about a fixed midi latency

- Try this experiment:

Program a midi sequence in Logic containing equal-length notes. ( say
1/16th long on each 1/8th )
send the midi info to a synth or drum-machine playing a sound that is
the same everytime and has a fast attack.
record this in a harddisk-recorder ( like Logic itself )
open it up in a waveform editor where you can measure the lenght
between each sound.
- Now, is the distance between each sound EXACTLY the same ?
this is the timing problems i mean, and in my experience
the hardware midi-sequencers like MPC-60 and alike are way more precise
than computer-based ones.

I do remember the atari's i used in the late 80's having better timing,
but the integration in logic
between HD-recording/editing and sequencing gives so many other
possibillities...

again - if i needed tight midi i'd get a MPC-60 but atm i'm going
down the route of analogue sequencing ( bringing us back on-topic )

i've already got a serge sequencer panel, and my next wish is a TKB -
there will be endless fun synching these to
my various drummachines and synth w arpeggiators and suchlike.

actually, this mail has given me an idea i'll go try out right away:

I'll make a precise click track ( sound not midi ) in logic and try
routing that into the serge as a clock for the serge sequencer panel...

Has anyone here on the list got any experince/ideas in something like
this that they'd like to
share ?

Kim

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Jun 1, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yulian Pugachevsky wrote:

> Kim,
>
> I too use LogicPro on a MacBookPro (and have been using it since Apple
> acquired EMagic).. never noticed any MIDI latency issues (.. and no, i
> dont make slow and sad muisic ;).. the only thing that comes to mind
> when speaking of latency in Logic are the buses, since (and go figure
> out why) there is no latency compensation. What I mean is that if you
> apply a plug-in as an insert to a track (which will play fine) vs.
> applying it as an insert to a bus and routing a given track to that
> bus (which will cause latency).
>
> Also, if you're controlling analogue gear via MIDI->CV, one should
> keep in mind the latency introduced by interface itself
>
> ... but if you are looking for a computer with REALLY tight MIDI
> timing, you may want to look into an old ATARI (520, 1040, Mega or
> Stacy).. these are really unbeatable and can rival any hardware MIDI
> seq... but MIDI-only ;)
>
> yulian.
>
> On 31-May-07, at 4:31 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:
>
>> Hi Ross
>>
>> As i read it you're not asking about midi to cv conversion,
>> but about what midi/computer setups we use ?
>>
>> - I use Logic Pro on a dual G4
>>
>> - it's ok for the slow stuff and sad songs but the midi timing really
>> isn't very
>> good. - if i wanted/needed fast, tight midi i'd get a hardware
>> sequencer instead/also
>>
>> all the best, - Kim
>>
>>
>> On May 31, 2007, at 3:47 AM, amnesia wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear
>>> the
>>> Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.
>>>
>>> I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box
>>> to
>>> ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
>>> havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in
>>> the
>>> early 90s.
>>>
>>> ross
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-06-01 by Yulian Pugachevsky

I hear what you're talking about. I've done this test in the past.. and I do concur that a certain degree of latency is introduced.. as far as the MPC is concerned.. indeed.. Akai have always prevailed when it comes to timing.. and not only in regards to sequencing.. even their S-series samplers have been uber-fast in terms response to incoming MIDI data and envelopes.

now back to the Serge seq topic :)

.. unfortunately, I havent had the pleasure of playing with the sequencers or the programmers, but I do have a TKB and I find it indispensable.. I think everyone should have one; It a great source of creativity.

I think your audio-clocking method is great, although I have not tried it, i do not see any reasons why it would not work. The only observation i'd make (and it's probably quite optional) is to run the audio click through a DTG to extract an exact pulse (this will also allow to play with the TKB's "groove" by adjusting the rise/fall times).

On 1-Jun-07, at 3:20 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:

Yulian,

i'm not talking about a fixed midi latency

- Try this experiment:

Program a midi sequence in Logic containing equal-length notes. ( say 1/16th long on each 1/8th )
send the midi info to a synth or drum-machine playing a sound that is the same everytime and has a fast attack.
record this in a harddisk-recorder ( like Logic itself )
open it up in a waveform editor where you can measure the lenght between each sound.
- Now, is the distance between each sound EXACTLY the same ?
this is the timing problems i mean, and in my experience
the hardware midi-sequencers like MPC-60 and alike are way more precise than computer-based ones.

I do remember the atari's i used in the late 80's having better timing, but the integration in logic
between HD-recording/editing and sequencing gives so many other possibillities...

again - if i needed tight midi i'd get a MPC-60 but atm i'm going down the route of analogue sequencing ( bringing us back on-topic )

i've already got a serge sequencer panel, and my next wish is a TKB - there will be endless fun synching these to
my various drummachines and synth w arpeggiators and suchlike.

actually, this mail has given me an idea i'll go try out right away:

I'll make a precise click track ( sound not midi ) in logic and try routing that into the serge as a clock for the serge sequencer panel...

Has anyone here on the list got any experince/ideas in something like this that they'd like to
share ?

Kim

On Jun 1, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yulian Pugachevsky wrote:

Kim,

I too use LogicPro on a MacBookPro (and have been using it since Apple acquired EMagic).. never noticed any MIDI latency issues (.. and no, i dont make slow and sad muisic ;).. the only thing that comes to mind when speaking of latency in Logic are the buses, since (and go figure out why) there is no latency compensation. What I mean is that if you apply a plug-in as an insert to a track (which will play fine) vs. applying it as an insert to a bus and routing a given track to that bus (which will cause latency).

Also, if you're controlling analogue gear via MIDI->CV, one should keep in mind the latency introduced by interface itself

... but if you are looking for a computer with REALLY tight MIDI timing, you may want to look into an old ATARI (520, 1040, Mega or Stacy).. these are really unbeatable and can rival any hardware MIDI seq... but MIDI-only ;)

yulian.

On 31-May-07, at 4:31 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:

Hi Ross

As i read it you're not asking about midi to cv conversion,
but about what midi/computer setups we use ?

- I use Logic Pro on a dual G4

- it's ok for the slow stuff and sad songs but the midi timing really isn't very
good. - if i wanted/needed fast, tight midi i'd get a hardware sequencer instead/also

all the best, - Kim

On May 31, 2007, at 3:47 AM, amnesia wrote:

Hi all

I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear the
Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.

I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV box to
ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box wise....I
havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in the
early 90s.

ross
>
>

Re: whats a good midi box for the serge

2007-06-02 by Kim Hansen

It worked great

a Klopfgeist instrument in logic
routed to the serge's PNRV
PNRV's envelope follower output to Serge sequencer clock input
and also to DTG trig in for output vca

- perfect synch !

I'm gonna have so much fun with this :) :)

Kim

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:25 PM, Yulian Pugachevsky wrote:
>
> I think your audio-clocking method is great, although I have not tried
> it, i do not see any reasons why it would not work. The only
> observation i'd make (and it's probably quite optional) is to run the
> audio click through a DTG to extract an exact pulse (this will also
> allow to play with the TKB's "groove" by adjusting the rise/fall
> times).
>
> y.
>
> On 1-Jun-07, at 3:20 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> i've already got a serge sequencer panel, and my next wish is a TKB -
>> there will be endless fun synching these to
>> my various drummachines and synth w arpeggiators and suchlike.
>>
>> actually, this mail has given me an idea i'll go try out right away:
>>
>> I'll make a precise click track ( sound not midi ) in logic and try
>> routing that into the serge as a clock for the serge sequencer
>> panel...
>>
>> Has anyone here on the list got any experince/ideas in something like
>> this that they'd like to
>> share ?
>>
>> Kim
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yulian Pugachevsky wrote:
>>
>>> Kim,
>>>
>>> I too use LogicPro on a MacBookPro (and have been using it since
>>> Apple acquired EMagic).. never noticed any MIDI latency issues (..
>>> and no, i dont make slow and sad muisic ;).. the only thing that
>>> comes to mind when speaking of latency in Logic are the buses, since
>>> (and go figure out why) there is no latency compensation. What I
>>> mean is that if you apply a plug-in as an insert to a track (which
>>> will play fine) vs. applying it as an insert to a bus and routing a
>>> given track to that bus (which will cause latency).
>>>
>>> Also, if you're controlling analogue gear via MIDI->CV, one should
>>> keep in mind the latency introduced by interface itself
>>>
>>> ... but if you are looking for a computer with REALLY tight MIDI
>>> timing, you may want to look into an old ATARI (520, 1040, Mega or
>>> Stacy).. these are really unbeatable and can rival any hardware MIDI
>>> seq... but MIDI-only ;)
>>>
>>> yulian.
>>>
>>> On 31-May-07, at 4:31 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ross
>>>>
>>>> As i read it you're not asking about midi to cv conversion,
>>>> but about what midi/computer setups we use ?
>>>>
>>>> - I use Logic Pro on a dual G4
>>>>
>>>> - it's ok for the slow stuff and sad songs but the midi timing
>>>> really isn't very
>>>> good. - if i wanted/needed fast, tight midi i'd get a hardware
>>>> sequencer instead/also
>>>>
>>>> all the best, - Kim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 31, 2007, at 3:47 AM, amnesia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> I have decided after a year of noodling that I would like to hear
>>>>> the
>>>>> Serge running under midi control using laptop PC- Cubase SX.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a CV converter ( I still need to make a lead from the CV
>>>>> box to
>>>>> ground serge) but wondered what people are using midi box
>>>>> wise....I
>>>>> havent used a computer for music since the Atari 1040ste back in
>>>>> the
>>>>> early 90s.
>>>>>
>>>>> ross
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>