AETHERPHON, global theremin family group photo

Yahoo Groups archive

AETHERPHON, global theremin family

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:14 UTC

Thread

Playing 78s

Playing 78s

2008-06-01 by David V

Hello,

My latest acquisition is an original soundtrack album for "Spellbound". 
  By original, I mean *original*...a folio of 6 78 RPM vinyl disks. 
Man, these things are *thick*.

So....how do I play them?  Obviously I'd need a turntable that spins 
that fast, but what about the needle and stuff?  Can modern styluses 
play them?

-- 
-----
DAVID VESEL -- synthetic music for humans
-----
Spellbound, a brief program of music for theremin
Sunday 10PM-12AM http://spellbound.purplenote.com

Re: [Aetherphon] Playing 78s

2008-06-01 by Christopher Accornero

David,

 my good friend John Hargrave is an expert in 78 rpm
record archiving.

His e-mail is lunchboxlizard2@....  Just mention
my name, I'm sure he'd be glad to help you.

Chris A



--- David V <porphyrous@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hello,
> 
> My latest acquisition is an original soundtrack
> album for "Spellbound". 
>   By original, I mean *original*...a folio of 6 78
> RPM vinyl disks. 
> Man, these things are *thick*.
> 
> So....how do I play them?  Obviously I'd need a
> turntable that spins 
> that fast, but what about the needle and stuff?  Can
> modern styluses 
> play them?
> 
> -- 
> -----
> DAVID VESEL -- synthetic music for humans
> -----
> Spellbound, a brief program of music for theremin
> Sunday 10PM-12AM http://spellbound.purplenote.com
>

Re: [Aetherphon] Playing 78s

2008-06-01 by Bret

David,
I also have that album set.  I bought them from Gary Hoffman, his father's copy.  It is books of records like this that causes us to to Lp records 'albums', because 78's used to come in Albums.  You only got 1 song per 78 side, so it took a bunch of records to make an album.

You need a larger stylus, even more so than the spin speed.  You can compensate for spin speed by using sample rate conversions of the correct ratio (from 45 or 33 rpm).  

The stylus size for 78's depends on the manufacturer, and era, but this record is from a period where spin speeds and stylus size had become pretty standardized.

A modern 45/33 stylus is too small in diameter for a 78, it will ride the bottom of the V groove rather than the groove walls, a very bad sounding thing (lots of noise, little signal).  This record's modulation is side to side (lateral), thus the stylus must ride on the groove walls.

You need about a 2.7 mil to 3 mil stylus (or even 2.5 mil to 3.3 mil).  There are off the shelf units from Grado, Shure, Stanton, Orotfon and custom stylii available for Stanton cartridges (500 series).  The standard was considered 3 mil.  Getting a stylus slightly smaller or larger allows you to change where the stylus rides the groove, thus possibly getting away from previous wear or damage.

It is good to use a stereo cartridge to play a mono record (which these are).  This allows you to take either or both of the walls (in case one sounds better).  

78's also have a playback eq that is different than the RIAA curve in your phono preamp for 45/33 records.  This is a playback de-emphasis of the pre-emphasis used when cutting the record.  Essentially they boost the treble when they record, and cut the bass when they record, so on playback you must do the inverse, with precise frequency turnover points and amplitudes.  

To solution this for yourself you need a means of applying the proper de-emphasis EQ curve.  This can be achieved many ways, among them

1. Vintage phono preamp hardware (ebay)
2. Modern made 78 phono preamp hardware (Kabusa)
3.  Restoration software with the right 78 phono curve in software,
   A.  After recording the 78 from a modern RIAA phono preamp (the software removes the RIAA curve, and adds the correct 78 one). (Tracertek)
   B.  Using a special 'flat' phono preamp, and software that adds the correct phono curve (Tracertek)

http://www.tracertek.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=6

I use method 3-B above.  I love the DC 6 and DC7 software from tracertek, and the flat vacuum tube preamp, CTP-2000.  

I have bought a lot of cartridges and custom styli from KAB USA
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

and recommend them highly, too.  The owner at KABUSA is friendly, knowledgeable, helpful, and has good products and prices.

Part of the question is, what do you want to do, what gear do you have, what is your budget?  Do you just want to digitize this album, or do you want to be able to play a 78 through speakers whenever you feel like it?

I can help you sort out how to do it, if I know what you want to be able to do.

Or, I can digitize and restore it for you, if that is your objective.   I'll do it for free.  I have about 5 sizes of stylus, and cartridges by Ortofon, Stanton and Grado.

One more thing, be very cautious how you clean this record.  Under NO circumstances use any record cleaner that has ANY alcohol AT All.  Alcohol will dissolve the shellac (made from lac bug secretions).
SOME 78's have a cardboard center. NO liquid should be used on these.  Columbia is one example.  If there are ANY tiny crack, the liquid can get to the cardboard core, it will swell and ruin the record.

Let me know if I can help, email me directly.

bret
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, David V <porphyrous@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: David V <porphyrous@...>
> Subject: [Aetherphon] Playing 78s
> To: aetherphon@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, May 31, 2008, 10:44 PM
> Hello,
> 
> My latest acquisition is an original soundtrack album for
> "Spellbound". 
>   By original, I mean *original*...a folio of 6 78 RPM
> vinyl disks. 
> Man, these things are *thick*.
> 
> So....how do I play them?  Obviously I'd need a
> turntable that spins 
> that fast, but what about the needle and stuff?  Can modern
> styluses 
> play them?
> 
> -- 
> -----
> DAVID VESEL -- synthetic music for humans
> -----
> Spellbound, a brief program of music for theremin
> Sunday 10PM-12AM http://spellbound.purplenote.com
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> AETHERPHON, the global thereminist community
> 
> To contact the moderator, e-mail porphyrous@...
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.