Analogue-sequencer

Folks,

It's been suggested that the default midi note range used by P3 
might not tie in as best it could with the typical note ranges used 
by synthesizers.
This can be changed easily, but it is hard-coded in the firmware, so 
I thought I'd see what the general concensus is first.

At the moment, P3 note edit is in the range C2 - D#7.
This is based on the full midi note range running from C0 to G10.

Do you find that you don't often use notes in the C2-B2, or C2-B3 
range ?

I know the transmitted notes can be transposed easily at the 
playlist or PXPos level, but if I were to change the default 'lowest 
note' in pattern edit, what should it be:
C2, C3 or C4 ?

Cheers,
Colin f

I must apologise - as you can probably guess it's my fauly Colin is
asking this. It kinda came up when I did my clever "Sherman
triggering" thing. Turns out that sending F4 to my Sherman actually
required me to send the note F6 as the P3 refers to it - and I started
to wonder if it would confuse new users or those used to the
"standard" used by Cubase. 

I also found that some of my analogue stuff does not respond to MIDI
notes lower than what the P3 calls C3 - so I'd kinda like it to be
pitched an octave higher in terms of range it sends - but only if the
community agrees that's a good idea also....

So blame me.... I'm a trouble maker... 8-)

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Paul Nagle 
<softroom@b...> wrote:
> I must apologise - as you can probably guess it's my fauly Colin is
> asking this. It kinda came up when I did my clever "Sherman
> triggering" thing. Turns out that sending F4 to my Sherman actually
> required me to send the note F6 as the P3 refers to it - and I 
started
> to wonder if it would confuse new users or those used to the
> "standard" used by Cubase. 
> 
> I also found that some of my analogue stuff does not respond to 
MIDI
> notes lower than what the P3 calls C3 - so I'd kinda like it to be
> pitched an octave higher in terms of range it sends - but only if 
the
> community agrees that's a good idea also....
> 
> So blame me.... I'm a trouble maker... 8-)

I Don't know much about midi standards and the like, but the other 
day I was actually wishing the P3 went below C2. I was "sharing" a 
single NL2 patch with several P3 tracks and I ended up manually 
transposing all of the steps up an octave to get the room needed.... 

I had not discovered the part transpose option (PXPos). I could have 
saved some time with it!

> I Don't know much about midi standards and the like, but the other 
> day I was actually wishing the P3 went below C2. I was "sharing" a 
> single NL2 patch with several P3 tracks and I ended up manually 
> transposing all of the steps up an octave to get the room needed.... 

The problem with the midi standard is that they didn't define octave
numbers strictly enough.
Midi has a 10 octave (+8 note) range, so it makes sense to label these
octaves 0 to 10.
But some makers decided the third octave of the midi note range should
be octave 0, as this is commonly the lowest note on controller
keyboards. Hence the discrepancy between P3 octave numbers and Cubase
octave numbers for example.
I chose not to use the Cubase numbering partly because I don't find it
logical, but mainly because I didn't have space for the minus sign
needed for notes in octaves -1 and -2 in the display.

One possiblity is that I could remove the limited range of 5 octaves on
the note pots, and make the full 10 octaves available directly. That
would make the 'lowest' note selection academic.

> I had not discovered the part transpose option (PXPos). I could have 
> saved some time with it!

As the old saying goes, RTFM ;-)

Cheers,
Colin f

On Sunday 22 February 2004 00:54, Colin f wrote:
> One possiblity is that I could remove the limited range
> of 5 octaves on the note pots, and make the full 10
> octaves available directly. That would make the 'lowest'
> note selection academic.

So the P3 only has a 5-octave range when using the Note 
pots, which can afterwards be shifted up or down to cover 
the full MIDI 10 octave range, right?

Although I would like the pots to give us the full range, I 
don't think that would work very well. The pot range is 
aready a bit cramped, imo, and doubling its range will make 
it even harder to dial in a specific note... I guess... 
maybe it's not much of a problem. Have you tried that, 
Colin, in a experimental version?

Anyway, I like *low* notes.

- Robert

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 08:29:38 +0100, Robert van der Kamp
<robnet@wxs.nl> wrote:

>So the P3 only has a 5-octave range when using the Note 
>pots, which can afterwards be shifted up or down to cover 
>the full MIDI 10 octave range, right?

The range is pretty good as it is - in my case one of my main
sequencing synths goes silent if I send it a note in the (unshifted)
lowest octave. I can use that as a feature if necessary <g>

Colin, if it's a pain to rename cos of the minus signs, hell don't
sweat it, it's not like I can't remember. In fact, if I have my
playlists shifting the parts I need by +24 then all the tracks where
it is important look right already.....

I'm just an old fuss-pot...ignore me.

Paul

---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

Colin,

> It's been suggested that the default midi note range used by P3
> might not tie in as best it could with the typical note ranges used  by
> synthesizers.

Huh?

> I know the transmitted notes can be transposed easily at the
> playlist or PXPos level, but if I were to change the default 'lowest
> note' in pattern edit, what should it be:
> C2, C3 or C4 ?

C2,
I use low notes on some of my stuff, I'd hate to loose the ability to use
them, or to have to mess around writing a sequence and transpose it.
Please leave it as it is..

I would be nice to have a 'range' control, but Id rather not be forced to
loose note range.

Paul

> So the P3 only has a 5-octave range when using the Note 
> pots, which can afterwards be shifted up or down to cover 
> the full MIDI 10 octave range, right?

Yes - the note pot range is scaled to 64 steps, and notes start at C2,
or midi note number 24.
So you can enter midi note numbers from 24 to 88 using the note pots -
note names C2 to D#7.
The actual memory location in each pattern can store any note in the
full 128 note range, C0 to G10.
If I change the '+ 24' on the end of the line that writes the value of
the pot into memory, you'd get a different range of notes.
But so far it seems to be in the right place.

Cheers,
Colin f

Paul,

ahh, i see, so C2 on the P3, isn't in fact C2 on MIDI?

Paul

> I must apologise - as you can probably guess it's my fauly Colin is
> asking this. It kinda came up when I did my clever "Sherman
> triggering" thing. Turns out that sending F4 to my Sherman actually
> required me to send the note F6 as the P3 refers to it - and I started
> to wonder if it would confuse new users or those used to the
> "standard" used by Cubase.
>
> I also found that some of my analogue stuff does not respond to MIDI
> notes lower than what the P3 calls C3 - so I'd kinda like it to be
> pitched an octave higher in terms of range it sends - but only if the
> community agrees that's a good idea also....
>
> So blame me.... I'm a trouble maker... 8-)
>
> Paul
> ---
> Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
> Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
>                           www.BogusFocus.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Colin,

> One possiblity is that I could remove the limited range of 5 octaves on
> the note pots, and make the full 10 octaves available directly. That
> would make the 'lowest' note selection academic.

Then making it nearly impossible in a live situation to select an E4 whilst
a sequence is running.

As I said, a note range control for the pots would be superb.

> As the old saying goes, RTFM ;-)

is it complete yet?
;-P

Paul

> ahh, i see, so C2 on the P3, isn't in fact C2 on MIDI?

It depends on how you view the midi note range.
If you only consider the notes available on your typical master
keyboard, and call the lowest note on the keyboard C0, then C0 = midi
note number 24.
If you consider the full range of midi notes available (which is 10
octaves), the lowest note is midi note 0.
I call midi note number 0 - C0.

this may be getting confusing though - we're talking about two different
things: the octave numbering of notes, and the lowest note available on
the note pots in edit mode.
I mentioned the octave numbers since they might confuse people used to a
different octave numbering scheme when talking about the base note name.

> > One possiblity is that I could remove the limited range of 
> 5 octaves on
> > the note pots, and make the full 10 octaves available directly. That
> > would make the 'lowest' note selection academic.
> 
> Then making it nearly impossible in a live situation to 
> select an E4 whilst
> a sequence is running.

Indeed. I reduced the note pot range to 5 octaves for exactly that
reason (long before anyone else had seen P3).
The full 10 octave range might appear as a FUNC+note pot option.

Top tip:
You can actually get to the full note range as it stands by 'sculpting'
the notes (tricky) or by recording them from a master keyboard if it can
cover the full range.

Cheers,
Colin f

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:30:46 -0000 (GMT),
<Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@Synth.net> wrote:

>Paul,
>
>ahh, i see, so C2 on the P3, isn't in fact C2 on MIDI?
>

As Colin said, there's no real clarity.... and I think most tend to
follow Steinberg.... 

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

Colin,

> It depends on how you view the midi note range.
> If you only consider the notes available on your typical master
> keyboard, and call the lowest note on the keyboard C0, then C0 = midi
> note number 24.

interesting, mine goes right the way down to midi note 0, and all the way up
to midi note 127.

> If you consider the full range of midi notes available (which is 10
> octaves), the lowest note is midi note 0.
> I call midi note number 0 - C0.

ahhh, I see, which i something like C-2 as I recall.
Its to do with the pitch of notes, isnt A4 supposed to be 440hz, and
everything is worked from there?

> this may be getting confusing though - we're talking about two different
> things: the octave numbering of notes, and the lowest note available on
> the note pots in edit mode.

yep.

> Indeed. I reduced the note pot range to 5 octaves for exactly that
> reason (long before anyone else had seen P3).
> The full 10 octave range might appear as a FUNC+note pot option.

Hmm, I'd rather have the ability to set a note range..

> Top tip:
> You can actually get to the full note range as it stands by 'sculpting'
> the notes (tricky) or by recording them from a master keyboard if it can
> cover the full range.

handy to remember..
But what is displayed when you hold func and press a step?

Paul

hi Colin,

> At the moment, P3 note edit is in the range C2 - D#7.
> This is based on the full midi note range running from C0 to G10.
> 
> Do you find that you don't often use notes in the C2-B2, or C2-B3 
> range ?
> 
> I know the transmitted notes can be transposed easily at the 
> playlist or PXPos level, but if I were to change the 
> default 'lowest  note' in pattern edit, what should it be:
> C2, C3 or C4 ?

personally i use the lower range a lot more than the top range; 
highest i go is 6 or 7 max. maybe an option would be to leave the pot-
range at 5 octaves, as-is, and have a user-config option that would 
allow you to set the lowest C-note in pattern-edit mode.

grtz Chiel

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Maddox \(Mail 
Lists\)" <Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...> wrote:

> > Indeed. I reduced the note pot range to 5 octaves for exactly 
that
> > reason (long before anyone else had seen P3).
> > The full 10 octave range might appear as a FUNC+note pot option.
> 
> Hmm, I'd rather have the ability to set a note range..

I think the FUNC+note pot option would be useful. For studio use it 
would be nice to access the entire range. But, it's not a big 
deal... 

Sayer

> > If you consider the full range of midi notes available (which is 10
> > octaves), the lowest note is midi note 0.
> > I call midi note number 0 - C0.
> 
> ahhh, I see, which i something like C-2 as I recall.
> Its to do with the pitch of notes, isnt A4 supposed to be 440hz, and
> everything is worked from there?

That would depend on the octave selection on the oscillators of your
synth now, wouldn't it ;-)

> handy to remember..
> But what is displayed when you hold func and press a step?

It will display note names from C0 to G10 depending on what they are.
The restriction on what notes can be entered is purely a limit of the
note pot data entry code.
You could set the randomizer base note to C0, and the range to 127, and
you'd see notes across all octaves.

Cheers,
Colin f