Analogue-sequencer

Hi all,

I've had my P3 for a week now and I've found that its very easy to 
use (despite my initial confusion - RTFM helped). Its an excellent 
machine and I'm very impressed and pleased with it !! 

Now onto my current confusion - hope this makes sense. I was 
wondering whether there is any way of preventing step/knob values 
from jumping to their current position when editing notes, etc. For 
example, if I am editing pattern 1 and set step 1 to have a note 
value of C#3 and then leave this pattern and change step one in 
pattern 2 to be F5, when I return to pattern 1 and move the knob the 
value jumps to F5. 

I immediately assumed that as the combination FUNC+StepKey showed the 
current value of a step, that FUNC+Knob would lock the current step 
value until it is released (while also displaying the current value 
of the knob as it turns). I'm sure I have another machine that does 
this (can't remember which one).  

I've looked through the manual to see if there is any mention of this 
type of function but I couldn't spot one. Does it exist or has nobody 
had this requirement before ?

Cheers

Simon

isch nett.






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Am 13.04.2006 um 14:45 schrieb Paul Nagle:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:45:25 -0000, "beakanddune"
<beakanddune@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 >For example, if I am editing pattern 1 and set step 1 to have a note
 >value of C#3 and then leave this pattern and change step one in
 >pattern 2 to be F5, when I return to pattern 1 and move the knob the
 >value jumps to F5.

True, although I'd say the value *starts* from F5 - but as your knob
is in motion already (fnar fnar), I guess it goes whereever you want
it. At a reasonable tempo you should even be able to get there before
the step passes...

I am probably not a typical user though because, for me, that's part
of the fun, since I am editing the step away from C#3 anyway. Also, I
tend to use FTS and keep my ranges quite small so don't have large
pitch leaps (or wrong notes). I also use the octave controls of my
synths rather than set a large range for a sequence (or I bang notes
in from MIDI) so most of my patterns end up in a similar range anyway.

Do you use playlists? As that could also mean you go back to edit the
same track but end up in a different pattern even when you haven't
tweaked anything...

I guess Colin would have to find a way to remember the knob positions
for every pattern on every track and make the P3 do some maths before
updating the values. And that's just for notes...

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee -  
www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                            SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:45:25 -0000, "beakanddune"
<beakanddune@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>For example, if I am editing pattern 1 and set step 1 to have a note 
>value of C#3 and then leave this pattern and change step one in 
>pattern 2 to be F5, when I return to pattern 1 and move the knob the 
>value jumps to F5. 

True, although I'd say the value *starts* from F5 - but as your knob
is in motion already (fnar fnar), I guess it goes whereever you want
it. At a reasonable tempo you should even be able to get there before
the step passes... 

I am probably not a typical user though because, for me, that's part
of the fun, since I am editing the step away from C#3 anyway. Also, I
tend to use FTS and keep my ranges quite small so don't have large
pitch leaps (or wrong notes). I also use the octave controls of my
synths rather than set a large range for a sequence (or I bang notes
in from MIDI) so most of my patterns end up in a similar range anyway.

Do you use playlists? As that could also mean you go back to edit the
same track but end up in a different pattern even when you haven't
tweaked anything...

I guess Colin would have to find a way to remember the knob positions
for every pattern on every track and make the P3 do some maths before
updating the values. And that's just for notes...

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee - www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                           SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk

sorry! it was wrong.


Am 13.04.2006 um 14:40 schrieb Thomas De Monaco:

isch nett.




Am 13.04.2006 um 14:45 schrieb Paul Nagle:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:45:25 -0000, "beakanddune"
<beakanddune@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 >For example, if I am editing pattern 1 and set step 1 to have a note
 >value of C#3 and then leave this pattern and change step one in
 >pattern 2 to be F5, when I return to pattern 1 and move the knob the
 >value jumps to F5.

True, although I'd say the value *starts* from F5 - but as your knob
is in motion already (fnar fnar), I guess it goes whereever you want
it. At a reasonable tempo you should even be able to get there before
the step passes...

I am probably not a typical user though because, for me, that's part
of the fun, since I am editing the step away from C#3 anyway. Also, I
tend to use FTS and keep my ranges quite small so don't have large
pitch leaps (or wrong notes). I also use the octave controls of my
synths rather than set a large range for a sequence (or I bang notes
in from MIDI) so most of my patterns end up in a similar range anyway.

Do you use playlists? As that could also mean you go back to edit the
same track but end up in a different pattern even when you haven't
tweaked anything...

I guess Colin would have to find a way to remember the knob positions
for every pattern on every track and make the P3 do some maths before
updating the values. And that's just for notes...

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee -
www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                             SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I guess Colin would have to find a way to remember the knob positions
> for every pattern on every track and make the P3 do some maths before
> updating the values. And that's just for notes...

Well the knob positions are already sort of stored in the patterns... ;-)

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

>>So..... would it be possible to implement a 'Knob Pickup' parameter
switch that would control whether the knobs changed values immediately
or only when they 'passed through' the current value?<<

fwiw, I too have wondered about this possibility... I wrote to
novation some time ago whining about this, it being probably the main
reason I stopped using the mk1 supernova I have, to be told that the
newest o/s had included it. so now the supernova's back in use :-) but
they still didn't/couldn't fix the part-select buttons which mute the
part for you if you reselect a part that's already selected.... damn
shame.
(I suggested that they could add an option to suppress the midi
activity indication, then you'd be able to see which part was selected
for editing & not accidentally mute it. do any of these designers ever
do gigs? maybe then they'd understand....)

but anyway, yes, while you're leaping from track to track & tweaking
various things, the values do jump instead of pass-through-&-pick-up.
for note numbers, paul's right- you can live with it. but when you're
setting up the auxes, it can be a nuisance.
the way it's done on the LAMM memorymoog is nice- if you move a knob,
the display shows the stored value & the current knob value
side-by-side until they match, then the knob value takes over.
hmmm....

duncan.

Colin said:
> Well the knob positions are already sort of stored in the patterns... ;-)

So..... would it be possible to implement a 'Knob Pickup' parameter switch
that would control whether the knobs changed values immediately or only when
they 'passed through' the current value?

This would be the same as implemented on several synthesizers eg the
Supernova where it is invaluable when switching between parts and
opening/closing filters etc, so avoiding a sudden unwanted, painful timbre
change!

Cheers,
Mike.

> >>So..... would it be possible to implement a 'Knob Pickup' parameter
> switch that would control whether the knobs changed values immediately
> or only when they 'passed through' the current value?<<
> 
> fwiw, I too have wondered about this possibility...

Play mode knobs already work in pass through mode.
The code to do the same thing for pattern edit would be a bit more
complicated, and I'm not sure how much of the limited remaining space it
would take up.
There is still more space than I expected there to be by now.
The v3.1.006 release is only 1k larger than 3.1.005, and there's still 2k
space left in the production CPUs...

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Colin f wrote:
> Play mode knobs already work in pass through mode.
> The code to do the same thing for pattern edit would be a bit more
> complicated, and I'm not sure how much of the limited remaining space it
> would take up.
>   
I can understand the need for smoothness when doing cutoff frequency or 
volume tweaks. But trying to do it with note sequences, unless you're 
trying to get as close to replicating a scale as possible, just strikes 
me as am unusual goal. I guess I just have much wilder hopes for that 
remaining space...:)

Paul

---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music / Bogus Focus Records / Binar / Headshock / The Joint Intelligence Committee
        www.softroom.co.uk / www.BogusFocus.com / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com 
** New JIC Live CD available at the BogusFocus site now!! **

Paul Nagle <softroom@...> wrote:
>
> I can understand the need for smoothness when doing cutoff frequency or 
> volume tweaks. But trying to do it with note sequences, unless you're 
> trying to get as close to replicating a scale as possible, just strikes 
> me as am unusual goal. I guess I just have much wilder hopes for that 
> remaining space...:)
> 
> Paul
> 

Maybe someone has suggested this already I might have missed it.  (I
am just offering my opinion).

In a perfect world, when jumping to another pattern where the knobs
are in really different positions that the previous pattern, I would
prefer that turning the knob would become active when it crosses the
stored pattern's value, thus removing the inadvertant jump due to the
circumstances.... (A sort of manual nulling of the pot).

I prefer this to "relative" motion incrementing, which doesn't quite
work without endless rotary encoders, or the existing "that's the way
it is" jump simply due to the initial position of the pots....

Gary

On 14 Apr 2006, at 08:20, Paul Nagle wrote:

> I can understand the need for smoothness when doing cutoff  
> frequency or
> volume tweaks. But trying to do it with note sequences, unless you're
> trying to get as close to replicating a scale as possible, just  
> strikes
> me as am unusual goal.

I can see arguments for both. As Paul suggests, notes can be viewed  
as discrete values, so knob nulling doesn't necessarily make sense.

Ideally, I think I'd argue for both behaviours (!), with a function  
key combo to select one or the other.

While we're doing feature requests: I now understand why one of  
Paul's P3's has a blue LED for Upper/AUX - when gigging on a dark  
stage it's often hard to see at a glance whether it's selected. Short  
of swapping LED's on my unit (and I'm tempted), would it be possible  
for the Upper/AUX LED to perhaps blink rather than be solid?

	-- N.


   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Maybe someone has suggested this already I might have missed it.  (I
> am just offering my opinion).
> 
> In a perfect world, when jumping to another pattern where the knobs
> are in really different positions that the previous pattern, I would
> prefer that turning the knob would become active when it crosses the
> stored pattern's value, thus removing the inadvertant jump due to
> the circumstances.... (A sort of manual nulling of the pot).
> 
> I prefer this to "relative" motion incrementing, which doesn't quite
> work without endless rotary encoders, or the existing "that's the
> way it is" jump simply due to the initial position of the pots....
> 
> Gary
>

Or do like the Waldorf Wave does and offer the user a choice of modes 
(relative, pass-thru, or jump).  Depending on the code space 
requirements, you can have a user-config option for knob edit mode 
and let the user select what works best for them.