Analogue-sequencer

First of all, I'm new around here, and I am very happy to be using
this fabulous sequencer!!!
Not only is the machine amazing, but I really dig the communtiy that
surrounds it, and appreciate that Colin has an open ear and mind to
what input the users have.
That being said...

(Now I hope I'm not coming off as too demanding being a 'noob' and
all, only offering ideas, of course :D)

My idea(s):
Working in Pattern Edit mode, with a Playlist longer than 1 pattern
leaves something to be desired (IMO). Namely, it's a real hassle to
change which pattern in the playlist is currently being edited. 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I couldn't find a simple way to do this.

I have been :
1) exit & save pattern edit 
2) enter playlist edit 
3) select the current 'Edit' pattern in playlist
4)save & exit playlist mode 
5) enter pattern edit 
6) repeat over and over.....

Now wouldn't it be nice if one could just 'jump' over to either the
next pattern in the playlist (while staying in pattern edit mode) or
maybe jump to whatever pattern is playing back within the playlist at
the time of some newly conceived button-press?

If Playlist edit mode could somehow be incorporated into the pattern
edit, now that might be nice! Perhaps when exiting Pattern edit, you
could hit Function + Save to save all the patterns with changes in the
playlist (albiet in the same save location; without an option to 'save
as'?)

Sorry if this wording is a little hard to follow, but am I making
sense to anybody out there? Is this valid or am I crazy?
Maybe there is already a simple solution, and if so I humbly thank you
for letting me know of it! 

And maybe this is the kind of thing forthcoming with the codename
P4??? ;-) 
I will definitly be purchasing one of those!! I've got a friends P3
through the holidays as he's too busy to use it (poor guy!) but now
I'm offically hooked :D

Anyways, I'm happy to be a part of this community and thanks for
hearing me oot.
-josh

> My idea(s):
> Working in Pattern Edit mode, with a Playlist longer than 1 pattern
> leaves something to be desired (IMO).

Yeah, it is a bit awkward...
A simple way of moving through different patterns on a track without leaving
pattern edit is on my list, but I'm not sure if the code space is there to
do something useful.
There's also not enough spare RAM to hold a whole tracks worth of patterns
in a restore buffer, so the choice of save/lose could be gone, unless I use
the extra RAM hidden in the CPU. The problem with that is that there is only
enough RAM there for an 8 pattern bank.

> And maybe this is the kind of thing forthcoming with the codename
> P4??? ;-) 

P3 has a fixed set of patterns for each track in a bank, and each pattern is
a single bar long.
Playlists have to share the same set of patterns, and multi-bar patterns
have to be 'faked' using a playlist, which as you point out, provides for a
rather disjointed editing experience.

P4 will have no playlists.
Each part will have a unique pattern for each track, with a maximum pattern
length up to however many bars you have space left for in RAM.
When you copy one part to another, the copied part will initially contain
ghost copies of the patterns from the source part (i.e. they will point to
the same data), but when you edit ghost patterns, saving the changes will
give you a choice of updating the original pattern or creating a new
independent pattern on that part.
The P3 ability to transpose or repeat individual patterns in a playlist will
be provided by having 'bar properties' for each bar in a multi-bar pattern.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

"P4 will have no playlists.
Each part will have a unique pattern for each track, with a maximum pattern
length up to however many bars you have space left for in RAM.
When you copy one part to another, the copied part will initially contain
ghost copies of the patterns from the source part (i.e. they will point to
the same data), but when you edit ghost patterns, saving the changes will
give you a choice of updating the original pattern or creating a new
independent pattern on that part.
The P3 ability to transpose or repeat individual patterns in a playlist will
be provided by having 'bar properties' for each bar in a multi-bar pattern."

this is definitely progress Colin and how i would like the P3 to work, but I can sense already you are going to force me to buy a P4 dammit! 

Richard

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colin Fraser 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:16 AM
  Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Hello &idea/question RE: editing patterns within playlists...



  > My idea(s):
  > Working in Pattern Edit mode, with a Playlist longer than 1 pattern
  > leaves something to be desired (IMO).

  Yeah, it is a bit awkward...
  A simple way of moving through different patterns on a track without leaving
  pattern edit is on my list, but I'm not sure if the code space is there to
  do something useful.
  There's also not enough spare RAM to hold a whole tracks worth of patterns
  in a restore buffer, so the choice of save/lose could be gone, unless I use
  the extra RAM hidden in the CPU. The problem with that is that there is only
  enough RAM there for an 8 pattern bank.

  > And maybe this is the kind of thing forthcoming with the codename
  > P4??? ;-) 

  P3 has a fixed set of patterns for each track in a bank, and each pattern is
  a single bar long.
  Playlists have to share the same set of patterns, and multi-bar patterns
  have to be 'faked' using a playlist, which as you point out, provides for a
  rather disjointed editing experience.

  P4 will have no playlists.
  Each part will have a unique pattern for each track, with a maximum pattern
  length up to however many bars you have space left for in RAM.
  When you copy one part to another, the copied part will initially contain
  ghost copies of the patterns from the source part (i.e. they will point to
  the same data), but when you edit ghost patterns, saving the changes will
  give you a choice of updating the original pattern or creating a new
  independent pattern on that part.
  The P3 ability to transpose or repeat individual patterns in a playlist will
  be provided by having 'bar properties' for each bar in a multi-bar pattern.

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And when will the P4 be released? Any idea?

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colin Fraser 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Hello &idea/question RE: editing patterns within playlists...



  > My idea(s):
  > Working in Pattern Edit mode, with a Playlist longer than 1 pattern
  > leaves something to be desired (IMO).

  Yeah, it is a bit awkward...
  A simple way of moving through different patterns on a track without leaving
  pattern edit is on my list, but I'm not sure if the code space is there to
  do something useful.
  There's also not enough spare RAM to hold a whole tracks worth of patterns
  in a restore buffer, so the choice of save/lose could be gone, unless I use
  the extra RAM hidden in the CPU. The problem with that is that there is only
  enough RAM there for an 8 pattern bank.

  > And maybe this is the kind of thing forthcoming with the codename
  > P4??? ;-) 

  P3 has a fixed set of patterns for each track in a bank, and each pattern is
  a single bar long.
  Playlists have to share the same set of patterns, and multi-bar patterns
  have to be 'faked' using a playlist, which as you point out, provides for a
  rather disjointed editing experience.

  P4 will have no playlists.
  Each part will have a unique pattern for each track, with a maximum pattern
  length up to however many bars you have space left for in RAM.
  When you copy one part to another, the copied part will initially contain
  ghost copies of the patterns from the source part (i.e. they will point to
  the same data), but when you edit ghost patterns, saving the changes will
  give you a choice of updating the original pattern or creating a new
  independent pattern on that part.
  The P3 ability to transpose or repeat individual patterns in a playlist will
  be provided by having 'bar properties' for each bar in a multi-bar pattern.

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> And when will the P4 be released? Any idea?

It'll be a good while yet.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Idea: Hopefully this would not take up too much of the quickly
dwindling memory capacity (I could be wrong) but for jumping betwixt
patterns while editing, how's about this:
To jump to next pattern Hold [Func]+[Play/Edit]+[Page]
at which point you have the option to save/back/loose just as you
would when exiting patern edit mode. Instead of exiting, it just
changes the current 'Edit pattern'.
Eh? eh? :D

This continues to hamper my workflow, because even when going through
what I thought was a way to switch the edit pattern (as mentioned
before- entering playlist edit, selecting step, exiting and back to
pattern edit)This doesn't always work!!! I've been back and forth many
times and it will still be editing the pattern it was before :(
So NOW I have to change the playlist to a length of 1 step and select
the pattern I want to edit, then after editing, re-setup the
playlist... Aargh!

Still loving sequentixing! ;D (and still looking for my own P3...???)
-josh




> > My idea(s):
> > Working in Pattern Edit mode, with a Playlist longer than 1 pattern
> > leaves something to be desired (IMO).
> 
> Yeah, it is a bit awkward...
> A simple way of moving through different patterns on a track without
leaving
> pattern edit is on my list, but I'm not sure if the code space is
there to
> do something useful.
> There's also not enough spare RAM to hold a whole tracks worth of
patterns
> in a restore buffer, so the choice of save/lose could be gone,
unless I use
> the extra RAM hidden in the CPU. The problem with that is that there
is only
> enough RAM there for an 8 pattern bank.
> 
> > And maybe this is the kind of thing forthcoming with the codename
> > P4??? ;-) 
> 
> P3 has a fixed set of patterns for each track in a bank, and each
pattern is
> a single bar long.
> Playlists have to share the same set of patterns, and multi-bar patterns
> have to be 'faked' using a playlist, which as you point out,
provides for a
> rather disjointed editing experience.
> 
> P4 will have no playlists.
> Each part will have a unique pattern for each track, with a maximum
pattern
> length up to however many bars you have space left for in RAM.
> When you copy one part to another, the copied part will initially
contain
> ghost copies of the patterns from the source part (i.e. they will
point to
> the same data), but when you edit ghost patterns, saving the changes
will
> give you a choice of updating the original pattern or creating a new
> independent pattern on that part.
> The P3 ability to transpose or repeat individual patterns in a
playlist will
> be provided by having 'bar properties' for each bar in a multi-bar
pattern.

> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>

josh wrote:
> This continues to hamper my workflow, because even when going through
> what I thought was a way to switch the edit pattern (as mentioned
> before- entering playlist edit, selecting step, exiting and back to
> pattern edit)This doesn't always work!!! 
>   

I can't quite understand your problem here.  I personally edit
patterns that I select from playlist edit all the time - and this
technique has *always* worked. From playlist edit, you hold down Edit
in combination with the pattern you want to edit. Do your edity stuff.
Then, when you save the pattern, the P3 automatically saves it to the
correct pattern number (i.e. the one you entered). You do have the
option to save, instead, to another pattern number when you exit but
this has to be a deliberate choice. 
In terms of hampering workflow, I am personally pretty darn fast at
doing this due to the very fast key response of the P3. Like anything
else, with practice, you get faster and faster so  maybe it's just a
matter of familiarity? 
I know it would be ace if the P3 had the capacity to keep all patterns
in an edit buffer and thus you could leap gracefully between them but,
hey, it can't so let's just rejoice in the things it can do.

We should maybe stage a race between the P3 and any other hardware 
sequencer with the type of pattern edit features you describe? Count
me in for that. Whizz bombs away!

:)

Paul

---
www.softroom.co.uk / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "arglebargleuk"
<softroom@...> wrote:
> We should maybe stage a race between the P3 and any other hardware 
> sequencer with the type of pattern edit features you describe? Count
> me in for that. Whizz bombs away!

My money's on Paul;^)

Though Nick Rothwell might be a dark horse contender!

-Jim

On 4 Jan 2007, at 13:51, Jim Combs wrote:

> Though Nick Rothwell might be a dark horse contender!

Fast or accurate: pick one...

	-- N.

Last night I was up late with the manual again...
And now Paul points out exactly what I discovered:
(I can't believe I missed this before!!)
I don't have to exit playlist edit to jump into a pattern (=O)
That was the big thing I had missed...
I should have known- the way I was working previously seemed WAY too
counter-intuitive for this brilliant machine!
Thanks for your help and next time I'll remember to RTFM haha
-josh

On 1/4/07, Nick Rothwell <nick@cassiel.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 4 Jan 2007, at 13:51, Jim Combs wrote:
>
> > Though Nick Rothwell might be a dark horse contender!
>
> Fast or accurate: pick one...
>
> -- N.
>
>  
>


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