Analogue-sequencer

Folks,

I've uploaded a new beta of v4.
http://www.sequentix.com/sq_download.htm

The most obvious differences are:
.  accumulator config is now global to a pattern
.  changing loops points during edit forces a jump to the first bar of the
loop after the current bar finishes
.  the global bar accumulator is now enabled for theshold based events (if
xDAcD is enabled)
.  setting TBase applies to all bars in a pattern unless you hold FUNC while
you're doing it

A few other changes and bugfixes are in there, check out the revision
history for further details.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Colin,

Is there a Beta manual to v4 available?

monads

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Fraser" <colin@...> wrote:

>
> Folks,
> 
> I've uploaded a new beta of v4.
> http://www.sequentix.com/sq_download.htm
> 
> The most obvious differences are:
> .  accumulator config is now global to a pattern
> .  changing loops points during edit forces a jump to the first bar of the
> loop after the current bar finishes
> .  the global bar accumulator is now enabled for theshold based events (if
> xDAcD is enabled)
> .  setting TBase applies to all bars in a pattern unless you hold FUNC while
> you're doing it
> 
> A few other changes and bugfixes are in there, check out the revision
> history for further details.
> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>

>>Is there a Beta manual to v4 available?<<

there's a note in the files section that explains the fundamental
difference, which is that playlists are gone... each track can have an
enormous multi-bar pattern instead of the 16-step max we were used to,
& you can set loops within the pattern.... copy bars as ghosts without
using extra memory, & transpose the ghosts....

(but how do you stop it looping & play the end of the pattern? does it
support multiple loops? can loop settings be copied or somehow
automatically applied to some/all of the tracks? will there ever be a
midi remote command to make playback stop looping & play the coda of a
piece when one has had enough of extemporising over the looped section?)


I guess this raises more questions than it answers. I tried v4 a while
ago, & didn't like it, but recent changes in the way my band writes
stuff mean that v4's more "linear" approach to arrangement is a better
fit than it was. 
probably. 
still trying to figure it out.

but thank heavens the timebase setting is now global for all the bars
of a pattern unless you don't want it to be. that was threatening to
be a nuisance until colin changed it.... :-) aux configs next, please.

so I have one v3 machine & one v4... I need to copy the contents from
the v3 into the v4, but I'm going to do it as a real-time midi "dub"
rather than use sys-ex & the p3 tools mk2. mainly because I use a mac,
but also because I will learn more about (how to use) the new
arrangement of the memory this way.

I have a question myself- I have memory upgrade kits for both
machines, & have fitted the expansion to the v4 machine, largely on
the basis that this commits me to the new architecture. (I know it
doesn't, but it helps if I think it does)

but I can't remember what the effect is on the internal layout of the
p3's memory- do I get more banks? bigger patterns/more bars per
pattern? can't remember, can't find clues anywhere....

help!

duncan.

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <ferrograph@...>
wrote:
>
> >>Is there a Beta manual to v4 available?<<
> 
> there's a note in the files section that explains the fundamental
> difference<<

my mistake- the info is at the sequentix site, not here.

d.

duncan wrote:

> but thank heavens the timebase setting is now global for all the bars
> of a pattern unless you don't want it to be. that was threatening to
> be a nuisance until colin changed it.... :-) aux configs next, please.

Aux configs are now global across the whole pattern, I'm pretty sure.

> but I can't remember what the effect is on the internal layout of the
> p3's memory- do I get more banks? bigger patterns/more bars per
> pattern? can't remember, can't find clues anywhere....

You get 16 banks and with the expanded memory that means you can have 
totally different patterns per track per part in each one of them! Which 
is awesome if you want to start structuring things, as I've started to do.
The "intro" part of a pattern (the bars before any loop) works really 
well too in terms of making a freely-built structure sound planned and I 
agree an "outtro" (playing the bars post loop) would be a cool thing, 
especially in a part chain. But I think it would maybe need a second 
type of global bar value for this to govern the length of the outtro.

I have to say that I'm now fully into v4 and don't think I could go 
back. That isn't to say playlists don't still have a few groovy things I 
miss but the advantages now outweigh the disadvantages IMHO. Of the 8 
parts per banks, I allocate them in pairs, each pair being linked to a 
unique drum pattern on my electribes, slaved P3s and so on. In that way 
I can build some quite huge, complex compositions that I can still zoom 
in to work in fine detail as I used to.

And if it isn't too spamming, might I suggest a few samples of such P3 
work can be found on my new CD "Ephemeris" on musiczit - 
http://www.musiczeit.com/
Some of it goes way OTT of course, with a veritable orgy of P3 action. 
But hey, I love sequences almost as much as I love delay!

Paul
---
"Effectus super absolutionem"
http://www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
http://www.myspace.com/jointintelligencecommittee

Thanks D.  I've been going over the notes and getting familiar.  I didn't bother to read the 
v3 manual in depth as I didn't want to get confused (reading from posts how the two 
versions are different).  The more I play around with it the more I learn.

Another question is the memory upgrade still available?  I missed the original run and was 
put on the waiting list but I don't think Colin is doing another one.

monads

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <ferrograph@...> wrote:

>
> --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <ferrograph@>
> wrote:
> >
> > >>Is there a Beta manual to v4 available?<<
> > 
> > there's a note in the files section that explains the fundamental
> > difference<<
> 
> my mistake- the info is at the sequentix site, not here.
> 
> d.
>

Nagle wrote:
> Aux configs are now global across the whole pattern, I'm pretty sure.

Indeed they are.

Duncan wrote:
> (but how do you stop it looping & play the end of the pattern? does it
> support multiple loops? can loop settings be copied or somehow
> automatically applied to some/all of the tracks? will there ever be a
> midi remote command to make playback stop looping & play the coda of a
> piece when one has had enough of extemporising over the 
> looped section?)

There was a suggestion that 'outros' (i.e. the part of each pattern after
the loop) should play out whenever a new part is selected.
I thought that was a bit too extreme a change to the existing behaviour to
have without some UI means to select it.
Possibly the STEP MODE key could be applied here.
i.e. if you hold STEP MODE then select a new part (or reselect the current
part) each track would play its outro.
Thing is, what happens if one track has a longer outro than the others ?
Should the others loop until the longest pattern ends ?
What would they loop ? Their outro section, or back from their main loop
start ?
Or should they just go quiet ?

> but I can't remember what the effect is on the internal layout of the
> p3's memory- do I get more banks? bigger patterns/more bars per
> pattern? can't remember, can't find clues anywhere....

The total number of banks and patterns is fixed.
Bars are allocated to patterns as they are created, and you can keep going
until all the bars are used up.

Without memx, there are 384 bars total, which are allocated in two groups of
192.
Even numbered banks get 192, odd numbered banks get the other 192.
So if you used all 192 bars in bank 1, you won't be able to create patterns
in any other odd numbered bank.

With memx, there are 224 bars dedicated to each bank.
Clearly an improvement...

monads wrote:
> Another question is the memory upgrade still available?  I 
> missed the original run and was 
> put on the waiting list but I don't think Colin is doing another one.

I am doing another run.
The previous run didn't quite sell out either - I got sidetracked by a new
addition to the family.
Back to work now though.
Ordering details will be online by the end of next week.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Colin Fraser wrote:

> Thing is, what happens if one track has a longer outro than the others ?
> Should the others loop until the longest pattern ends ?
> What would they loop ? Their outro section, or back from their main loop
> start ?
> Or should they just go quiet ?

My tuppence worth (after just having a lovely walk with the dogs and 
pondering such matters) is that things could get very messy if the 
length of any individual pattern controlled the outtro length. I think 
you'd need to say it is either a length based on the current global bar 
(or multiple therof) or have a second variable available just for this 
purpose.
Any outtros too short to last the full length should just go silent. If 
you want them not to do so, use the bar repeat setting to get as much of 
them as you want. Or add extra bars. I add extra bars all the time - cos 
I can! <G>
Intros are ace for adding one-off events like gongs and crashes to 
introduce a part. I love 'em!

> I am doing another run.

Sweet - I think P3(3) is now ready to move on :)

Thanks as ever!

Paul
---
"Effectus super absolutionem"
http://www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
http://www.myspace.com/jointintelligencecommittee

> I like the idea of cloning, but it seems to me that it 
> happens at too  
> high a level (i.e. it includes all the patterns in a part, plus the  
> loop information). I would prefer it to happen purely at the pattern  
> level, so that different parts could refer to the same 
> pattern (rather  
> than sharing at the part level).

When you copy a part, all the patterns in the source are ghosted to the new
part, but the ghosting works at the pattern level.
You can ghost a single pattern by going in to edit, and saving to a new
location.
Or you can go to the pattern you want to ghost to, and use the 'ghost from'
option.

For part copy, it would maybe be conceptually simpler if the patterns were
copied to new, real patterns rather than ghosts.
The idea behind ghosting every pattern by default was to make it act more
like v3.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Regarding looping and suchlike, here's one of my thoughts on the P4  
memory management.

I like the idea of cloning, but it seems to me that it happens at too  
high a level (i.e. it includes all the patterns in a part, plus the  
loop information). I would prefer it to happen purely at the pattern  
level, so that different parts could refer to the same pattern (rather  
than sharing at the part level).

But (i) this is probably a big change, and (ii) maybe it's just me.

> The previous run didn't quite sell out either - I got sidetracked by  
> a new
> addition to the family.

You mean the P4?

Oh: *that* kind of addition to the family. If so: congratulations!

	-- N.


Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net

On 8 Feb 2008, at 12:56, Colin Fraser wrote:

> When you copy a part, all the patterns in the source are ghosted to  
> the new
> part, but the ghosting works at the pattern level.
> You can ghost a single pattern by going in to edit, and saving to a  
> new
> location.

OK ... but that seems to ghost the entire pattern to a new track and/ 
or part. (It says "Save to P2, T1**" here.) So I can ghost that, and  
then shorten the loop, but if I save that as a ghost, it replaces the  
original part, rather than saving a new part using a subset of the  
original patterns, which is what I want.

This is what I'm after:

Part 1:
	Loop(Pat1)

Part 2:
	Loop(Ghost(Pat1) Pat2 Pat3 Pat4)

The best I can get is

Part 1:
	Loop(Pat1 Pat2 Pat3 Pat4)

Part 2:
	Ghost(Part 1)

Or so it seems...

	-- N.



Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net

> OK ... but that seems to ghost the entire pattern to a new track and/ 
> or part. (It says "Save to P2, T1**" here.) So I can ghost that, and  
> then shorten the loop, but if I save that as a ghost, it 
> replaces the  
> original part, rather than saving a new part using a subset of the  
> original patterns, which is what I want.

Some slight deviations in teminology, but I think I understand - you want to
be able to ghost at the bar level, or at least, set different loop points
for a ghost pattern from the real pattern.
Either of these is theoretically possible, though if you ghosted at the bar
level, you would only be able to have a pattern made of a contiguous subset
of a source pattern, in the original bar order.
Loop points and pattern length are stored uniquely for each pattern, but a
ghost always has its values synchronised with the real source.
It may be a little complex to fit that into the UI - there would need to be
some extra save as option to save as a sub-ghost.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

That's awesome!  Well I look foward to it ;)  By the way thanks again for sending me the 
replacement LCD.  I installed it and it's working great.

monads

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Fraser" <colin@...> wrote:

> monads wrote:
> > Another question is the memory upgrade still available?  I 
> > missed the original run and was 
> > put on the waiting list but I don't think Colin is doing another one.
> 
> I am doing another run.
> The previous run didn't quite sell out either - I got sidetracked by a new
> addition to the family.
> Back to work now though.
> Ordering details will be online by the end of next week.
> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>

> By the way (and this probably illustrates my point, or it may be a  
> bug): If I do a "del ptrn" for a non-empty track, the track 
> LED stays  
> green rather than going amber. If I then switch to another part and  
> then back, the LED is then amber.

Erm, that's a bug.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

> Some slight deviations in teminology, but I think I understand - you  
> want to
> be able to ghost at the bar level, or at least, set different loop  
> points
> for a ghost pattern from the real pattern.

Erm: yes, that's it. I expect my terminology is a touch dodgy, since  
I'm probably still thinking in V3 terms.

I need to experiment with ghosting a bit more in any case, since it  
doesn't do what my mental model says it should.

By the way (and this probably illustrates my point, or it may be a  
bug): If I do a "del ptrn" for a non-empty track, the track LED stays  
green rather than going amber. If I then switch to another part and  
then back, the LED is then amber.

	-- N.


Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net

On 11 Feb 2008, at 10:35, Colin Fraser wrote:

> Erm, that's a bug.

OK. (This is in b26.)

	-- N.


Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net

> > By the way (and this probably illustrates my point, or it may be a  
> > bug): If I do a "del ptrn" for a non-empty track, the track 
> > LED stays  
> > green rather than going amber. If I then switch to another part and  
> > then back, the LED is then amber.
> 
> Erm, that's a bug.
> 

Come on Colin, pull yer socks up and sort it out :)