Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

I have an edited mackie emulation sysex for the BCF which im using
with ableton live (there is no shift key so easier navigation) but ive
run in to a problem. 

When the original sysex was loaded it didnt give any led feedback,
except for the scene scroll & master volume (i didnt write it). So i
got the BCReditor from here & noticed that the scene scroll had a line
'.mode 12dot' whereas the others just had '.mode off'. I pasted this
in to all the encoders and the feedback worked. 

however, ive noticed that the LEDs are not in sync with the
value/position displayed in Live, no matter if it's a Pan, Send or
Rack Macro. Its like they are running at different resolutions or
something. 

I thought I would try changing the 12 to a 15 seeing as there is 15
leds on each ring but this killed all the feedback & gave an error
when loading in to the bcf. 

Can anybody help? Im so close to having it perfect after having added
encoder acceleration but its just this one last thing thats annoying.

Great, thanks for the reply!

There wasn't a line for minmax so I added it but it didn't help. I
also had a look at the document you mentioned, and tried a few things
but still not working.

When they are set to pan the feedback should show the light in the
middle of the encoder as default right (12 o'clock)? Its not doing
this, it starts at the bottom left. I thought about setting the mode
for these to pan but then i imagine it wouldnt work correctly when the
encoders are set to sends. 

Here are a few lines from the sysex, is there anything that looks wrong? 

$rev F1
$preset
.name 'MCU All Mapped          '
.snapshot off
.request off
.egroups 4
.fkeys off
.lock on
.init
$encoder 1
.easypar CC 1 16 0 127 relative-3
.resolution 96 192 384 768
.showvalue off
.mode 12dot
$encoder 2
.easypar CC 1 17 0 127 relative-3
.resolution 96 192 384 768
.showvalue off
.mode 12dot

Hi Alex
> There wasn't a line for minmax so I added it but it didn't help. I
> also had a look at the document you mentioned, and tried a few things
> but still not working.

In the .easypar the min and max are in the same line. In your example
0 then 127
.minmax, if placed after the easypar, resets the min and max settings
of .easypar so you don't really need it here

> 
> When they are set to pan the feedback should show the light in the
> middle of the encoder as default right (12 o'clock)? Its not doing
> this, it starts at the bottom left. I thought about setting the mode
> for these to pan but then i imagine it wouldnt work correctly when the
> encoders are set to sends. 
> 
> Here are a few lines from the sysex, is there anything that looks
wrong? 
> 
> $rev F1
> $preset
> .name 'MCU All Mapped          '
> .snapshot off
> .request off
> .egroups 4
> .fkeys off
> .lock on
> .init
> $encoder 1
> .easypar CC 1 16 0 127 relative-3

This may the problem. If you are sending out relative changes then the
application is just going to add it to the current value
eg Pan at the centre 127/2 = 64 ($40)

BCR sends
$B0 $10 $01

the value at the PC and sent back from the PC should be $40 + 1 = $41
$B0 $10 $41
check with MidiOx
Sent by BC       Sent by PC
$B0 $10 $01     $B0 $10 $42
$B0 $10 $01     $B0 $10 $43
$B0 $10 $02     $B0 $10 $45
$B0 $10 $03     $B0 $10 $48
$B0 $10 $01     $B0 $10 $49

Strangely if you do this

$rev F1
$preset
 .name 'Problem with feedback '
 .snapshot off
 .request off
 .egroups 4
 .fkeys off
 .lock on
 .init
$encoder 1
 .easypar CC 1 16 0 127 relative-3
 .mode 12dot
 .resolution 96 192 384 768
$encoder 2
 .easypar CC 1 16 0 127 absolute
 .mode 12dot
 .resolution 96 192 384 768
.end

Turning encoder 2 puts out
$B0 $10 $41
$B0 $10 $42
$B0 $10 $43

should act as the correct feedback for encoder 1 and it does work
correctly and uses the internal feedback in the BC.

You wouldn't think the output from encoder 1
$B0 $10 $01
$B0 $10 $01
$B0 $10 $01

would rotate the led display on encode 1 (it does) but it also has
encoder 2 in sync.

Very strange, but if the PC is putting out the correct values then it
should be OK.

So check out what the PC is sending back to BCR (you may have to use
MidiYoke (on MidiOx web site) as a patch chord so you can see what is
happening) and let me know what the output is.

All the best

Royce

Thanks Royce. 

Ok when i turn encoder 1 (just going straight in to MIDIOX, no
ableton) it shows as:

BO 10 01 (varies according to speed, slowly is 01 but can be anything
up to 20) clockwise
BO 10 41 (again same thing but up to 60) anti clockwise

now it gets a bit strange coming out of ableton, there is a continious
flow of Channel Aft messages. When I turn the encoder I get:

Up:
BO 30 1A
BO 30 19 

& down:
BO 30 14

I tried them all in absolute mode & it reversed them didnt seem to
work properly. 

Im wondering if its somehting to do with the acceleration because when
I turn it fast from one extreme to the other the feedback is correct
but when it turned slowly the feedback can be up to half a turn out of
sync. 

Here is the patch - http://www.sendspace.com/file/da6jnm

and here's the documentation if you want to see what is assigned to
what (the patch is a on older version, no acceleration or feedback) -
http://www.savefile.com/files/1448485

if anyone has the time to have a look id be very grateful. Its a nice
patch, simplified from the real mackie mode but much easier & quicker
to use.

Hi Alex

> Ok when i turn encoder 1 (just going straight in to MIDIOX, no
> ableton) it shows as:
> 
> BO 10 01 (varies according to speed, slowly is 01 but can be anything
> up to 20) clockwise
> BO 10 41 (again same thing but up to 60) anti clockwise
> 
> now it gets a bit strange coming out of ableton, there is a continious
> flow of Channel Aft messages. When I turn the encoder I get:
> 
> Up:
> BO 30 1A
> BO 30 19 
> 
> & down:
> BO 30 14


Ah, for the BCF to have feedback (I am assuming you are on BC mode not
an emulation mode) Live needs top send the save CC mesage to the BCF

ie if you have
.easypar CC 1 $10 0 127 relative-3

$B0 $10 1   comes out of the BCF

Live needs to send the same CC channel and CC number with the value

$B0 $10 value
for the feedback to work.

I meant to mention that you can use 
.default $40
to set the pan display in the center

> 
> I tried them all in absolute mode & it reversed them didnt seem to
> work properly. 
> 
> Im wondering if its somehting to do with the acceleration because when
> I turn it fast from one extreme to the other the feedback is correct

do you mean 0 or 127 or values in between?

> but when it turned slowly the feedback can be up to half a turn out of
> sync. 
> 
I'm not sure it is your preset but the values Live is sending out.

In Live (I'm using 6.0.2)
Open preferences
You have set BCF as controller with USB input and USB output ports (or
a separate Midi interface) or have you selected on eof the Mackie
controllers?
Below you have BCF port as remote? (you will need to select MidiYoke
instead to see the output from Live when testing)

I just use BCR controller and the "Dump" button to send to the BCR and
everything works a treat.

After saying this I went to check as I have only just bought a BCF
recently. The USB Midi receive on the BCF doesn't work.
It works OK with the MIDI port through my Midiman interface.

> patch, simplified from the real mackie mode but much easier & quicker
> to use.

Do you find the Live's BCF mode slow to use?

> Ah, for the BCF to have feedback (I am assuming you are on BC mode not
> an emulation mode) Live needs top send the save CC mesage to the BCF
> 
> ie if you have
> .easypar CC 1 $10 0 127 relative-3
> 
> $B0 $10 1   comes out of the BCF
> 
> Live needs to send the same CC channel and CC number with the value
> 
> $B0 $10 value
> for the feedback to work.

I have the BCF in regular default mode & Mackie Control selected in
Ableton as the input. 



> 
> I meant to mention that you can use 
> .default $40
> to set the pan display in the center


I'll give this a try but sends are assigned to the same encoder as pan
I think so when I change to send won't they show as being in the
middle by default is i do that? 



> do you mean 0 or 127 or values in between?


yes from 0-127 its correct, 0-64 (for example) results in the encoder
around the 90 mark.  


> I'm not sure it is your preset but the values Live is sending out.
> 
> In Live (I'm using 6.0.2)
> Open preferences
> You have set BCF as controller with USB input and USB output ports (or
> a separate Midi interface) or have you selected on eof the Mackie
> controllers?
> Below you have BCF port as remote? (you will need to select MidiYoke
> instead to see the output from Live when testing)


Yes i have the Mackie Control listed as control surface with in & out
USB ports selected (well, i actually use midiyoke to output to
huskervu & then on to the port but it works the same either way), as
well as the midi ports enabled for Track & Remote. 



> I just use BCR controller and the "Dump" button to send to the BCR and
> everything works a treat.

> After saying this I went to check as I have only just bought a BCF
> recently. The USB Midi receive on the BCF doesn't work.
> It works OK with the MIDI port through my Midiman interface.

Yes I noticed that you cant use the dump button with usb. I could use
a midi port but if i pressed the dump button for the default Mackie
preset in Live I will get the proper mackie script & not the edited
version.


> > patch, simplified from the real mackie mode but much easier & quicker
> > to use.
> 
> Do you find the Live's BCF mode slow to use?

I thought the BCF preset in Live was just rubbish really, very limited
& not really that useful. The default mackie mode is incredible, very
extensive. But i came across this script on the ableton forum & just
loved that it had all the important stuff right there, no shift
keys...all just one button push away. You should have a play with it

anyone have any more ideas on this?