Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hi,

If I have an encoder set to [cc123 on channel 1, min 0, max 127]. 

Would sending the message [channel one, cc123, value 96] from my
computer's audio software to the midi in port (usb/midi) of the
BCR2000 make that physical encoders LED jump to value 96?

Do I need to set a preset up special in BC Manager to do this or is
this automatically how it works with regular presets?

Thank you

-Mongoo

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mongoomusic" <mongoomusic@...> wrote:
> If I have an encoder set to [cc123 on channel 1, min 0, max 127]. 
> Would sending the message [channel one, cc123, value 96] from my
> computer's audio software to the midi in port (usb/midi) of the
> BCR2000 make that physical encoders LED jump to value 96?

Yes - at least if the encoder definition you're describing is what BC
Manager calls a "standard output" definition: the BCR would NOT
respond if this encoder definition has been created via the "CUSTOM
output" protocol.

> Do I need to set a preset up special in BC Manager to do this or is
> this automatically how it works with regular presets?

It works automatically this way for every "standard output"
definition. (In fact, as far as I know, you can't even disable this
behavior.)

Mark.

Mark, thank you for getting back to me. I have some follow up
questions from our message, you said:

"1. The BCR can send a fixed sequence of MIDI messages whenever you
select a preset (via the PRESET "<" and ">" buttons): in BC Manager,
check "Request" on the "Settings" tab of the preset dialog box, and
define the individual MIDI bytes on the "LEARN output" tab. Thus, you
can instruct a receiving MIDI device or program to send its current
settings to the BCR - but I don't know if Reaper can do this."

Okay, so what you are saying is that if I want feed back to hit my bcr
from the computer (with reaper, if it can), I need to check the
"Request" box under the preset settings tab in BC Manager. Correct? To
follow that up in addition with, entering in all of the Controls in
the "learn output" tab? If I do not do this though, your saying that
My bcr would not receive feedback even if Reaper supported sending it?
Correct? I ask because I've never used this function of the bc
manager, and in fact didn't know what it did specifically or how to
use it. The same goes for snapshot, cause that wouldn't work when I
tried it either.

But.....

2 important things... 1) How do I enter in all of the controls into
the "Learn output" tab of preset settings? For example what would
[Channel 1, cc123, min 0, max127] be? Or would I only have to Learn
output for [Channel 1, cc123]? What specifically would I have to
enter, and by what means? How do I enter it? What would be a couple
examples?: Channel 7, cc 45. Channel 3, cc 77. Is it any different
entering in a "learn output" for buttons or is that the same as encoders?

But once I have those two things done on a preset (check the "request
box" and learn the output for all of the controls) Then if I'm still
not getting feedback from reaper than it is because of the software
being restrictive? Correct? And what I would ask of them, would be to
send "standard output cc" to a midi out from the parameters? Do I need
to have a track send midi out or does the midi out just have to be
enabled you think?

Reaper recently updated to v2.55 with these updates listed....

    *  Fixed hang on MIDI bank/program file change
   
    * Fixed VST compatability with plug-ins that send MIDI events from
UI/etc
    
    * FX parameter MIDI learn: fixed updating of "set with selected
tracks" flag
    * FX preset loading, VST program changes now add undo points
    * Meta-actions to conditionally process actions based on the sign
of CC parameter value
    

Do any of these sound related to adding support for Reaper to send out
"standard output" when requested by a device?

Thank you again, I will try reading the bc midi implementations
manual. It looks like a hard read though. :P I'll do my best!

If I can't get reaper to work in the end, is there any software that
allows you to open a VST FX with mappings for all of it's parameter
controls (lets say at least up to 110) that supports sending the
currently selected fx's parameter controls via standard output cc to
the BCR for full duplex feedback? I really just want a large mixer
view to patch Adat thru with meters and fx easily viewable/accessible.
Reaper seemed great for this, with it's simple design, themes and
intuitive routing. I'm not looking for much else in terms of clutter.

-Mongoo

P.S. on a side note, can increment buttons increase in odd ways,
rather than by one singular number over and over?

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mongoomusic" <mongoomusic@> wrote:
> > If I have an encoder set to [cc123 on channel 1, min 0, max 127]. 
> > Would sending the message [channel one, cc123, value 96] from my
> > computer's audio software to the midi in port (usb/midi) of the
> > BCR2000 make that physical encoders LED jump to value 96?
> 
> Yes - at least if the encoder definition you're describing is what BC
> Manager calls a "standard output" definition: the BCR would NOT
> respond if this encoder definition has been created via the "CUSTOM
> output" protocol.
> 
> > Do I need to set a preset up special in BC Manager to do this or is
> > this automatically how it works with regular presets?
> 
> It works automatically this way for every "standard output"
> definition. (In fact, as far as I know, you can't even disable this
> behavior.)
> 
> Mark.
>

Mark, I pressed record under the learn output tab an selected
"snapshot", this came back with "Messages recorded 114" and "Bytes
Recorded: 229". After this I click okay, but then can not exit the
Present Learn output tab. It gives me the option to cancel but not
accept the new line it created from the snapshot. What am I doing
wrong here?

Thanks,

-Mongoo

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mongoomusic" <mongoomusic@> wrote:
> > If I have an encoder set to [cc123 on channel 1, min 0, max 127]. 
> > Would sending the message [channel one, cc123, value 96] from my
> > computer's audio software to the midi in port (usb/midi) of the
> > BCR2000 make that physical encoders LED jump to value 96?
> 
> Yes - at least if the encoder definition you're describing is what BC
> Manager calls a "standard output" definition: the BCR would NOT
> respond if this encoder definition has been created via the "CUSTOM
> output" protocol.
> 
> > Do I need to set a preset up special in BC Manager to do this or is
> > this automatically how it works with regular presets?
> 
> It works automatically this way for every "standard output"
> definition. (In fact, as far as I know, you can't even disable this
> behavior.)
> 
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mongoomusic" <mongoomusic@...> wrote:
> I have some follow up questions from our message, you said:
> 
> "1. The BCR can send a fixed sequence of MIDI messages whenever you
> select a preset (via the PRESET "<" and ">" buttons): in BC Manager,
> check "Request" on the "Settings" tab of the preset dialog box, and
> define the individual MIDI bytes on the "LEARN output" tab. Thus, you
> can instruct a receiving MIDI device or program to send its current
> settings to the BCR - but I don't know if Reaper can do this."
> 
> Okay, so what you are saying is that if I want feed back to hit my bcr
> from the computer (with reaper, if it can), I need to check the
> "Request" box under the preset settings tab in BC Manager. Correct? To
> follow that up in addition with, entering in all of the Controls in
> the "learn output" tab? If I do not do this though, your saying that
> My bcr would not receive feedback even if Reaper supported sending it?
> Correct? I ask because I've never used this function of the bc
> manager, and in fact didn't know what it did specifically or how to
> use it.

I should have been more explicit: although you are completely free in
what you put under "LEARN output", this should typically be a single
command (so NOT "all of the Controls" - you can do that via
"snaphot"); this command should cause the receiver (e.g. Reaper) to
send all its current settings to the BCR. So the crucial question is:
can Reaper do that?

> The same goes for snapshot, cause that wouldn't work when I
> tried it either.

"Snapshot" as such does NOT have to do with the receiver: if the
current BCR preset contains any button/encoder settings (typically CC
messages defined via "standard output"), pressing the EDIT + "<
PRESET" buttons should ALWAYS make the BCR send a sequence of CC
messages. (You may try to capture these on the computer, e.g. in BC
Manager's "MIDI input messages" window.) And, as I explained, the BCR
should ALSO send this sequence of CC messages upon preset selection if
the "Snapshot" feature of the preset is "On".

In a sense "Snapshot" is a "second-best" option, namely if "LEARN
output" doesn't work: i.e. by using Snapshot you effectively turn the
BCR into the master, and the receiver (e.g. Reaper) into the slave -
i.e. there is no BI-DIRECTIONAL synchronization, but at least there is
ONE-way synchronization...

> Reaper recently updated to v2.55 with these updates listed....
> 
>     * FX parameter MIDI learn: fixed updating of "set with selected
> tracks" flag

I may be completely wrong here (since I don't know ANYTHING about
Reaper), but this merely means that you can decide for yourself which
Controller numbers Reaper associates with its FX parameters. However,
it doesn't tell you whether/how Reaper can SEND its parameter settings
in one go.

 > I will try reading the bc midi implementations
> manual. It looks like a hard read though. :P I'll do my best!

It started as a guide to BCL (the BCF/BCR's sysex-based setup
language) for myself: I used it to write BC Manager. So at that point
it wasn't written for the "normal" BCF/BCR user. However, since then
it has expanded quite a bit beyond the basic facts of BCL, and now
even covers some areas (like startup modes) that aren't strictly
MIDI-related. Hopefully it's a bit more "user-friendly" in those
areas. But in general my advice is to try and read around BCL and the
mathematical mumbo-jumbo as much as possible - if you manage to do so,
you may find quite a bit of stuff relevant to you.

> can increment buttons increase in odd ways,
> rather than by one singular number over and over?

Not as far as I know. (Unless you count the many QUIRKS of the
"increment" parameters (as described in "BC MIDI Implementation.pdf")
as such...!)

Mark.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mongoomusic" <mongoomusic@...> wrote:
> Mark, I pressed record under the learn output tab an selected
> "snapshot", this came back with "Messages recorded 114" and "Bytes
> Recorded: 229". After this I click okay, but then can not exit the
> Present Learn output tab. It gives me the option to cancel but not
> accept the new line it created from the snapshot. What am I doing
> wrong here?

The BCF/BCR have a limit of 125 bytes for the LEARN output sequence.
As a courtesy, BC Manager does allow you to RECORD more bytes (up to
999, if I remember correctly): you can edit all these bytes (copy,
paste etc.), but you cannot "save" them as the actual LEARN output
sequence, which is why "OK" is disabled (until the number drops to 125
or lower again).

Mark.