Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hi all,

i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD emulation
(like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my idea would
be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the host output. 

An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert editing
mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing the name
of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - if i
send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like Usine)
and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string (here
comes the question), i could associate a different program change to
each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...

i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the host to
change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a feeling we
could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....

any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've seen
two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe there's
someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...  

Ciao,
Goyya

Id actually like to see some source code for any sysex and mackie
emulation. Is there anything out there?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:38 AM, goyya76 <goyya76@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>  i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD emulation
>  (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my idea would
>  be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the host output.
>
>  An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert editing
>  mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing the name
>  of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - if i
>  send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like Usine)
>  and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string (here
>  comes the question), i could associate a different program change to
>  each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
>  automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
>
>  i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
>  Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the host to
>  change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a feeling we
>  could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
>
>  any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've seen
>  two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe there's
>  someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
>
>  Ciao,
>  Goyya
>
>

hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the ableton
forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of it
and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the case.
Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I think I'm
going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the Tranzport
for that... anyways:

Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't find it
on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you cannot
find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to yousendit or
somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like this
(taken from Tranzport manual):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg

a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different sysex to
ascii conversion methods can there be?
So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi monitor
to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and see if
the sysex blocks translate into words. 

Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen those
already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).

I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.

Matthew


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD emulation
> (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my idea would
> be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the host
output. 

> 
> An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert editing
> mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing the name
> of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - if i
> send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like Usine)
> and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string (here
> comes the question), i could associate a different program change to
> each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> 
> i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the host to
> change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a feeling we
> could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> 
> any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've seen
> two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe there's
> someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...  
> 
> Ciao,
> Goyya
>

here we go:
http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%20manual.pdf

last chapter.


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@...> wrote:

>
> hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the ableton
> forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of it
> and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the case.
> Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
> looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I think I'm
> going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the Tranzport
> for that... anyways:
> 
> Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't find it
> on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you cannot
> find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to yousendit or
> somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like this
> (taken from Tranzport manual):
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> 
> a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different sysex to
> ascii conversion methods can there be?
> So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi monitor
> to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and see if
> the sysex blocks translate into words. 
> 
> Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
> amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen those
> already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> 
> I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD emulation
> > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my idea would
> > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the host
> output. 
> > 
> > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert editing
> > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing the name
> > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - if i
> > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like Usine)
> > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string (here
> > comes the question), i could associate a different program change to
> > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> > 
> > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the host to
> > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a feeling we
> > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> > 
> > any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've seen
> > two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe there's
> > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...  
> > 
> > Ciao,
> > Goyya
> >
>

Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross 
platform, I think? Java perhaps???

Right, Karl?

He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie 
manuals.
I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding. 
I did however, build GenMce 
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
with synthedit. 
It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great for 
mackie mode.  It also is not cross platform. It would be great if it 
were...





--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@...> 
wrote:
>
> here we go:
> http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
20manual.pdf
> 
> last chapter.
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@> wrote:
> >
> > hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the 
ableton
> > forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of 
it
> > and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the 
case.
> > Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
> > looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I 
think I'm
> > going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the 
Tranzport
> > for that... anyways:
> > 
> > Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't 
find it
> > on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you 
cannot
> > find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to 
yousendit or
> > somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like 
this
> > (taken from Tranzport manual):
> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> > 
> > a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different 
sysex to
> > ascii conversion methods can there be?
> > So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi 
monitor
> > to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and 
see if
> > the sysex blocks translate into words. 
> > 
> > Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
> > amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen 
those
> > already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> > 
> > I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> > 
> > Matthew
> > 
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD 
emulation
> > > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my 
idea would
> > > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the 
host
> > output. 
> > > 
> > > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert 
editing
> > > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing 
the name
> > > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - 
if i
> > > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like 
Usine)
> > > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string 
(here
> > > comes the question), i could associate a different program 
change to
> > > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> > > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> > > 
> > > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> > > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the 
host to
> > > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a 
feeling we
> > > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> > > 
> > > any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've 
seen
> > > two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe 
there's

> > > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...  
> > > 
> > > Ciao,
> > > Goyya
> > >
> >
>

no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that definately
doesn't go for everyone on the list.
Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite happily
emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the bcr. I
have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
(which I miss)...

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:

>
> Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross 
> platform, I think? Java perhaps???
> 
> Right, Karl?
> 
> He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie 
> manuals.
> I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding. 
> I did however, build GenMce 
> http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
> with synthedit. 
> It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great for 
> mackie mode.  It also is not cross platform. It would be great if it 
> were...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > here we go:
> > http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
> 20manual.pdf
> > 
> > last chapter.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@> wrote:
> > >
> > > hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the 
> ableton
> > > forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of 
> it
> > > and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the 
> case.
> > > Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
> > > looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I 
> think I'm
> > > going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the 
> Tranzport
> > > for that... anyways:
> > > 
> > > Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't 
> find it
> > > on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you 
> cannot
> > > find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to 
> yousendit or
> > > somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like 
> this
> > > (taken from Tranzport manual):
> > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> > > 
> > > a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different 
> sysex to
> > > ascii conversion methods can there be?
> > > So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi 
> monitor
> > > to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and 
> see if
> > > the sysex blocks translate into words. 
> > > 
> > > Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
> > > amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen 
> those
> > > already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> > > 
> > > I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> > > 
> > > Matthew
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > 
> > > > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD 
> emulation
> > > > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my 
> idea would
> > > > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the 
> host
> > > output. 
> > > > 
> > > > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert 
> editing
> > > > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing 
> the name
> > > > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex - 
> if i
> > > > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like 
> Usine)
> > > > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string 
> (here
> > > > comes the question), i could associate a different program 
> change to
> > > > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> > > > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> > > > 
> > > > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> > > > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the 
> host to
> > > > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a 
> feeling we
> > > > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> > > > 
> > > > any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've 
> seen
> > > > two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe 
> there's
> > > > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...  
> > > > 
> > > > Ciao,
> > > > Goyya
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). I
have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is the
LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to the
idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have access to
several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most platforms
will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by default,
Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).

Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.

I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
mean that it provides an interface that other applications can access
it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator application
for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of your
midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in your
chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it could be
any standard (novation's one for instance).

My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will. That
would be a great start... Unless someone already has something like
this I can have a play with already?

Karl

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain <stutterbrain@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that definately
>  doesn't go for everyone on the list.
>  Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite happily
>  emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the bcr. I
>  have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
>  probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
>  (which I miss)...
>
>
>
>  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
>  > platform, I think? Java perhaps???
>  >
>  > Right, Karl?
>  >
>  > He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie
>  > manuals.
>  > I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
>  > I did however, build GenMce
>  > http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
>  > with synthedit.
>  > It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great for
>  > mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great if it
>  > were...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
>  > wrote:
>  > >
>  > > here we go:
>  > > http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
>  > 20manual.pdf
>  > >
>  > > last chapter.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
>  > ableton
>  > > > forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of
>  > it
>  > > > and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the
>  > case.
>  > > > Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
>  > > > looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I
>  > think I'm
>  > > > going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the
>  > Tranzport
>  > > > for that... anyways:
>  > > >
>  > > > Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't
>  > find it
>  > > > on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you
>  > cannot
>  > > > find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
>  > yousendit or
>  > > > somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like
>  > this
>  > > > (taken from Tranzport manual):
>  > > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
>  > > >
>  > > > a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different
>  > sysex to
>  > > > ascii conversion methods can there be?
>  > > > So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi
>  > monitor
>  > > > to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and
>  > see if
>  > > > the sysex blocks translate into words.
>  > > >
>  > > > Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
>  > > > amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen
>  > those
>  > > > already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
>  > > >
>  > > > I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
>  > > >
>  > > > Matthew
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Hi all,
>  > > > >
>  > > > > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
>  > emulation
>  > > > > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my
>  > idea would
>  > > > > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the
>  > host
>  > > > output.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert
>  > editing
>  > > > > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing
>  > the name
>  > > > > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex -
>  > if i
>  > > > > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like
>  > Usine)
>  > > > > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string
>  > (here
>  > > > > comes the question), i could associate a different program
>  > change to
>  > > > > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
>  > > > > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
>  > > > >
>  > > > > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
>  > > > > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the
>  > host to
>  > > > > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
>  > feeling we
>  > > > > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
>  > > > >
>  > > > > any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've
>  > seen
>  > > > > two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe
>  > there's
>  > > > > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Ciao,
>  > > > > Goyya
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  >
>
>

Hi Karl,

I've got a couple of Java midi/audio programs here:

http://mars.pingdynasty.com/software.oml

source available here:
http://cvs.pingdynasty.com/viewcvs/miditoys/

Note that on the Mac, you currently need an external MIDI SPI (eg  
Plumstone [1]) to access external (to the application) MIDI devices  
from Java.


As a software developer I'd say that the module approach is an  
attractive idea, but in reality the only other projects that would be  
able to use it are ones built on a similar platform, ie Java. And for  
various reasons there aren't that many audio/midi projects in Java.

I'm currently rewriting a Java step sequencer in C++ using Juce [2],  
which is a nice gui/audio/midi cross-platform library that I can  
recommend. Amongst other things, it allows you to do graphical, cross- 
platform VST plugins, though it's Win/Mac/Linux only.

Let me know if I can be of any help.

/m

[1] http://www.mandolane.co.uk/dlPlumstone.html
[2] http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/index.php

On 20 Mar 2008, at 0:19, Karl Lurman wrote:
> I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
> cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
> existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). I
> have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
> better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is the
> LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
> Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
> modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
> application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to the
> idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have access to
> several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most platforms
> will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by default,
> Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).
>
> Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
> maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.
>
> I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
> mean that it provides an interface that other applications can access
> it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator application
> for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of your
> midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in your
> chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
> emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
> mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it could be
> any standard (novation's one for instance).
>
> My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
> that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will. That
> would be a great start... Unless someone already has something like
> this I can have a play with already?
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain  
> <stutterbrain@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that definately
>>  doesn't go for everyone on the list.
>>  Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite happily
>>  emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the bcr. I
>>  have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
>>  probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
>>  (which I miss)...
>>
>>
>>
>>  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
>>> platform, I think? Java perhaps???
>>>
>>> Right, Karl?
>>>
>>> He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie
>>> manuals.
>>> I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
>>> I did however, build GenMce
>>> http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
>>> with synthedit.
>>> It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great for
>>> mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great if it
>>> were...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> here we go:
>>>> http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
>>> 20manual.pdf
>>>>
>>>> last chapter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
>>> ableton
>>>>> forum since I thought someone there might already have thought of
>>> it
>>>>> and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the
>>> case.
>>>>> Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, and was
>>>>> looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I
>>> think I'm
>>>>> going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the
>>> Tranzport
>>>>> for that... anyways:
>>>>>
>>>>> Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't
>>> find it
>>>>> on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you
>>> cannot
>>>>> find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
>>> yousendit or
>>>>> somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked like
>>> this
>>>>> (taken from Tranzport manual):
>>>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different
>>> sysex to
>>>>> ascii conversion methods can there be?
>>>>> So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi
>>> monitor
>>>>> to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, and
>>> see if
>>>>> the sysex blocks translate into words.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the display
>>>>> amongst other things are possible (although you say you've seen
>>> those
>>>>> already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
>>> emulation
>>>>>> (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my
>>> idea would
>>>>>> be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the
>>> host
>>>>> output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to insert
>>> editing
>>>>>> mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing
>>> the name
>>>>>> of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via sysex -
>>> if i
>>>>>> send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like
>>> Usine)
>>>>>> and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex string
>>> (here
>>>>>> comes the question), i could associate a different program
>>> change to
>>>>>> each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
>>>>>> automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
>>>>>> Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the
>>> host to
>>>>>> change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
>>> feeling we
>>>>>> could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? i've
>>> seen
>>>>>> two or three display emulation in the files section, and maybe
>>> there's
>>>>>> someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>> Goyya
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Lurman" <karl.lurman@...> wrote:

The Java applet seems a good idea (though i don't know Java!) - a 
sort of midi in - midi out cable, in which we could insert the midi 
code (we could take it out of huskervu code)...

Going back to reality: as a first step, how about something even 
simpler: midi in only? in 
most hosts (cubase for sure) you can route the midi output for the 
controller to multiple midi outs (for example, you could route the 
feedback to MidiYoke 1, then create two midi tracks with MidiYoke 1 
input, one outputting to BCR2000, the other outputting to the java 
applet)...

> I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
> cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
> existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). 

just a few thoughts about it...

An "alpha" applet could just be able to grab selected info and 
display them on the screen.

As a second step, since the NAME of the host active "function" (be it 
the mixer, a plugin or an instrument) should be received by the 
applet (if i remember correctly the Mackie HUI protocol), i'd like an 
applet able to read a text file associated to the active function, 
(containing the relative labels and graphics info like colour, 
position etc) and automatically display them on a BCR/BCF background; 
example:

mixer.txt
transport.txt
Classic Chorus.txt
MdspCompressor.txt
Asynth.txt
Synth1.txt

All the programming would be on the BCR/BCF side, and/or on the 
controller setup of the host (i'm thinking about Cubase, Reaper, 
Tracktion etc).

Third step, i'd like the applet to read .vstxml files (which AFAIK 
are supported by cubase/nuendo and tracktion) for plugin and 
instruments...

That done, we would have half of a freeware Automap! the tricky part 
(midi flow between the host and the controller, setting up the 
controller and the host) would be independent from the java applet - 
and we face it later!  

Lastly... +1 for the freeware and open-source option!


> I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
> cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
> existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). I
> have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
> better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is 
the
> LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
> Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
> modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
> application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to the
> idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have access 
to
> several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most 
platforms
> will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by default,
> Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).
> 
> Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
> maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.
> 
> I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
> mean that it provides an interface that other applications can 
access
> it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator 
application
> for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of 
your
> midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in 
your
> chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
> emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
> mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it could 
be
> any standard (novation's one for instance).
> 
> My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
> that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will. 
That
> would be a great start... Unless someone already has something like
> this I can have a play with already?
> 
> Karl
> 
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain <stutterbrain@...> 
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that 
definately
> >  doesn't go for everyone on the list.
> >  Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite 
happily
> >  emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the 
bcr. I
> >  have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
> >  probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
> >  (which I miss)...
> >
> >
> >
> >  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
> >  > platform, I think? Java perhaps???
> >  >
> >  > Right, Karl?
> >  >
> >  > He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old 
mackie
> >  > manuals.
> >  > I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
> >  > I did however, build GenMce
> >  > http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
> >  > with synthedit.
> >  > It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work 
great for
> >  > mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great 
if it
> >  > were...
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
> >  > wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > > here we go:
> >  > > http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
> >  > 20manual.pdf
> >  > >
> >  > > last chapter.
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" 
<stutterbrain@> wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > > hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
> >  > ableton
> >  > > > forum since I thought someone there might already have 
thought of
> >  > it
> >  > > > and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be 
the
> >  > case.
> >  > > > Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, 
and was
> >  > > > looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although 
I
> >  > think I'm
> >  > > > going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of 
the
> >  > Tranzport
> >  > > > for that... anyways:
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I 
can't
> >  > find it
> >  > > > on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If 
you
> >  > cannot
> >  > > > find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
> >  > yousendit or
> >  > > > somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting 
looked like
> >  > this
> >  > > > (taken from Tranzport manual):
> >  > > > 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> >  > > >
> >  > > > a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many 
different
> >  > sysex to
> >  > > > ascii conversion methods can there be?
> >  > > > So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other 
midi
> >  > monitor
> >  > > > to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable 
host, and
> >  > see if
> >  > > > the sysex blocks translate into words.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the 
display
> >  > > > amongst other things are possible (although you say you've 
seen
> >  > those
> >  > > > already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> >  > > >
> >  > > > I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Matthew
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > Hi all,
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
> >  > emulation
> >  > > > > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts 
mode....my
> >  > idea would
> >  > > > > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to 
the
> >  > host
> >  > > > output.
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to 
insert
> >  > editing
> >  > > > > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates 
showing
> >  > the name
> >  > > > > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via 
sysex -
> >  > if i
> >  > > > > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host 
like
> >  > Usine)
> >  > > > > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex 
string
> >  > (here
> >  > > > > comes the question), i could associate a different 
program
> >  > change to
> >  > > > > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i 
could
> >  > > > > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on 
which
> >  > > > > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from 
the
> >  > host to
> >  > > > > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
> >  > feeling we
> >  > > > > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > any hint on where to look to interpret the host 
feedback?? i've
> >  > seen
> >  > > > > two or three display emulation in the files section, and 
maybe

> >  > there's
> >  > > > > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > Ciao,
> >  > > > > Goyya
> >  > > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >  >
> >
> >
>

Heh, a BCR2000 specific automap! :) Heh, thats kinda cool. Actually,
it could also be used to create maps for any other controller...

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 3:41 AM, goyya76 <goyya76@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Lurman" <karl.lurman@...> wrote:
>
>  The Java applet seems a good idea (though i don't know Java!) - a
>  sort of midi in - midi out cable, in which we could insert the midi
>  code (we could take it out of huskervu code)...
>
>  Going back to reality: as a first step, how about something even
>  simpler: midi in only? in
>  most hosts (cubase for sure) you can route the midi output for the
>  controller to multiple midi outs (for example, you could route the
>  feedback to MidiYoke 1, then create two midi tracks with MidiYoke 1
>  input, one outputting to BCR2000, the other outputting to the java
>  applet)...
>
>
>  > I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
>  > cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
>  > existing emulation work found here in this group (files section).
>
>  just a few thoughts about it...
>
>  An "alpha" applet could just be able to grab selected info and
>  display them on the screen.
>
>  As a second step, since the NAME of the host active "function" (be it
>  the mixer, a plugin or an instrument) should be received by the
>  applet (if i remember correctly the Mackie HUI protocol), i'd like an
>  applet able to read a text file associated to the active function,
>  (containing the relative labels and graphics info like colour,
>  position etc) and automatically display them on a BCR/BCF background;
>  example:
>
>  mixer.txt
>  transport.txt
>  Classic Chorus.txt
>  MdspCompressor.txt
>  Asynth.txt
>  Synth1.txt
>
>  All the programming would be on the BCR/BCF side, and/or on the
>  controller setup of the host (i'm thinking about Cubase, Reaper,
>  Tracktion etc).
>
>  Third step, i'd like the applet to read .vstxml files (which AFAIK
>  are supported by cubase/nuendo and tracktion) for plugin and
>  instruments...
>
>  That done, we would have half of a freeware Automap! the tricky part
>  (midi flow between the host and the controller, setting up the
>  controller and the host) would be independent from the java applet -
>  and we face it later!
>
>  Lastly... +1 for the freeware and open-source option!
>
>
>
>  > I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
>  > cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
>  > existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). I
>  > have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
>  > better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is
>  the
>  > LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
>  > Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
>  > modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
>  > application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to the
>  > idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have access
>  to
>  > several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most
>  platforms
>  > will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by default,
>  > Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).
>  >
>  > Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
>  > maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.
>  >
>  > I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
>  > mean that it provides an interface that other applications can
>  access
>  > it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator
>  application
>  > for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of
>  your
>  > midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in
>  your
>  > chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
>  > emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
>  > mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it could
>  be
>  > any standard (novation's one for instance).
>  >
>  > My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
>  > that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will.
>  That
>  > would be a great start... Unless someone already has something like
>  > this I can have a play with already?
>  >
>  > Karl
>  >
>  > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain <stutterbrain@...>
>
>  wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that
>  definately
>  > > doesn't go for everyone on the list.
>  > > Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite
>  happily
>  > > emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the
>  bcr. I
>  > > have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
>  > > probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
>  > > (which I miss)...
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
>  > > > platform, I think? Java perhaps???
>  > > >
>  > > > Right, Karl?
>  > > >
>  > > > He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old
>  mackie
>  > > > manuals.
>  > > > I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
>  > > > I did however, build GenMce
>  > > > http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
>  > > > with synthedit.
>  > > > It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work
>  great for
>  > > > mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great
>  if it
>  > > > were...
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
>  > > > wrote:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > here we go:
>  > > > > http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
>  > > > 20manual.pdf
>  > > > >
>  > > > > last chapter.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain"
>  <stutterbrain@> wrote:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
>  > > > ableton
>  > > > > > forum since I thought someone there might already have
>  thought of
>  > > > it
>  > > > > > and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be
>  the
>  > > > case.
>  > > > > > Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol,
>  and was
>  > > > > > looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although
>  I
>  > > > think I'm
>  > > > > > going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of
>  the
>  > > > Tranzport
>  > > > > > for that... anyways:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I
>  can't
>  > > > find it
>  > > > > > on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If
>  you
>  > > > cannot
>  > > > > > find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
>  > > > yousendit or
>  > > > > > somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting
>  looked like
>  > > > this
>  > > > > > (taken from Tranzport manual):
>  > > > > >
>  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many
>  different
>  > > > sysex to
>  > > > > > ascii conversion methods can there be?
>  > > > > > So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other
>  midi
>  > > > monitor
>  > > > > > to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable
>  host, and
>  > > > see if
>  > > > > > the sysex blocks translate into words.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the
>  display
>  > > > > > amongst other things are possible (although you say you've
>  seen
>  > > > those
>  > > > > > already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Matthew
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > Hi all,
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
>  > > > emulation
>  > > > > > > (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts
>  mode....my
>  > > > idea would
>  > > > > > > be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to
>  the
>  > > > host
>  > > > > > output.
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to
>  insert
>  > > > editing
>  > > > > > > mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates
>  showing
>  > > > the name
>  > > > > > > of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via
>  sysex -
>  > > > if i
>  > > > > > > send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host
>  like
>  > > > Usine)
>  > > > > > > and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex
>  string
>  > > > (here
>  > > > > > > comes the question), i could associate a different
>  program
>  > > > change to
>  > > > > > > each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i
>  could
>  > > > > > > automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > i suppose something like this is the basic principle on
>  which
>  > > > > > > Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from
>  the
>  > > > host to
>  > > > > > > change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
>  > > > feeling we
>  > > > > > > could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > any hint on where to look to interpret the host
>  feedback?? i've
>  > > > seen
>  > > > > > > two or three display emulation in the files section, and
>  maybe
>  > > > there's
>  > > > > > > someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > Ciao,
>  > > > > > > Goyya
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>
>

WOW...they seem very interesting! just dloading them - i'll have an 
attempt at understanding Java...

thanks!


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klang <mars@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Karl,
> 
> I've got a couple of Java midi/audio programs here:
> 
> http://mars.pingdynasty.com/software.oml
> 
> source available here:
> http://cvs.pingdynasty.com/viewcvs/miditoys/
> 
> Note that on the Mac, you currently need an external MIDI SPI (eg  
> Plumstone [1]) to access external (to the application) MIDI 
devices  
> from Java.
> 
> 
As a software developer I'd say that the module approach is an  
> attractive idea, but in reality the only other projects that would 
be  
> able to use it are ones built on a similar platform, ie Java. And 
for  
> various reasons there aren't that many audio/midi projects in Java.
> 
> I'm currently rewriting a Java step sequencer in C++ using Juce 
[2],  
> which is a nice gui/audio/midi cross-platform library that I can  
> recommend. Amongst other things, it allows you to do graphical, 
cross- 
> platform VST plugins, though it's Win/Mac/Linux only.
> 
> Let me know if I can be of any help.
> 
> /m
> 
> [1] http://www.mandolane.co.uk/dlPlumstone.html
> [2] http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/index.php
> 
> 
> On 20 Mar 2008, at 0:19, Karl Lurman wrote:
> > I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
> > cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
> > existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). 
I
> > have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
> > better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is 
the
> > LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
> > Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
> > modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
> > application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to 
the
> > idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have 
access to
> > several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most 
platforms
> > will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by 
default,
> > Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).
> >
> > Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
> > maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.
> >
> > I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
> > mean that it provides an interface that other applications can 
access
> > it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator 
application
> > for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of 
your
> > midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in 
your
> > chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
> > emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
> > mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it 
could be
> > any standard (novation's one for instance).
> >
> > My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
> > that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will. 
That
> > would be a great start... Unless someone already has something 
like
> > this I can have a play with already?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain  
> > <stutterbrain@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that 
definately
> >>  doesn't go for everyone on the list.
> >>  Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite 
happily
> >>  emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the 
bcr. I
> >>  have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
> >>  probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
> >>  (which I miss)...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
> >>> platform, I think? Java perhaps???
> >>>
> >>> Right, Karl?
> >>>
> >>> He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie
> >>> manuals.
> >>> I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
> >>> I did however, build GenMce
> >>> http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
> >>> with synthedit.
> >>> It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great 
for
> >>> mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great 
if it
> >>> were...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> here we go:
> >>>> http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
> >>> 20manual.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> last chapter.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>  
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
> >>> ableton
> >>>>> forum since I thought someone there might already have 
thought of
> >>> it
> >>>>> and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the
> >>> case.
> >>>>> Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, 
and was
> >>>>> looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I
> >>> think I'm
> >>>>> going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the
> >>> Tranzport
> >>>>> for that... anyways:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't
> >>> find it
> >>>>> on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you
> >>> cannot
> >>>>> find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
> >>> yousendit or
> >>>>> somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked 
like
> >>> this
> >>>>> (taken from Tranzport manual):
> >>>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different
> >>> sysex to
> >>>>> ascii conversion methods can there be?
> >>>>> So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi
> >>> monitor
> >>>>> to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, 
and
> >>> see if
> >>>>> the sysex blocks translate into words.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the 
display
> >>>>> amongst other things are possible (although you say you've 
seen
> >>> those
> >>>>> already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matthew
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
> >>> emulation
> >>>>>> (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my
> >>> idea would
> >>>>>> be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the
> >>> host
> >>>>> output.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to 
insert
> >>> editing
> >>>>>> mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing
> >>> the name
> >>>>>> of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via 
sysex -
> >>> if i
> >>>>>> send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like
> >>> Usine)
> >>>>>> and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex 
string
> >>> (here
> >>>>>> comes the question), i could associate a different program
> >>> change to
> >>>>>> each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> >>>>>> automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> >>>>>> Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the
> >>> host to
> >>>>>> change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
> >>> feeling we
> >>>>>> could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? 
i've
> >>> seen
> >>>>>> two or three display emulation in the files section, and 
maybe

> >>> there's
> >>>>>> someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>> Goyya
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

forgot one thing...maybe you could point out which files we should 
look at??

i'd say bcrstep is the best starting point, so if you could give a 
brief descritption of which files should be dloaded and how to 
compile them i would be very grateful!

ciao,
Goyya
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klang <mars@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Karl,
> 
> I've got a couple of Java midi/audio programs here:
> 
> http://mars.pingdynasty.com/software.oml
> 
> source available here:
> http://cvs.pingdynasty.com/viewcvs/miditoys/
> 
> Note that on the Mac, you currently need an external MIDI SPI (eg  
> Plumstone [1]) to access external (to the application) MIDI 
devices  
> from Java.
> 
> 
As a software developer I'd say that the module approach is an  
> attractive idea, but in reality the only other projects that would 
be  
> able to use it are ones built on a similar platform, ie Java. And 
for  
> various reasons there aren't that many audio/midi projects in Java.
> 
> I'm currently rewriting a Java step sequencer in C++ using Juce 
[2],  
> which is a nice gui/audio/midi cross-platform library that I can  
> recommend. Amongst other things, it allows you to do graphical, 
cross- 
> platform VST plugins, though it's Win/Mac/Linux only.
> 
> Let me know if I can be of any help.
> 
> /m
> 
> [1] http://www.mandolane.co.uk/dlPlumstone.html
> [2] http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/index.php
> 
> 
> On 20 Mar 2008, at 0:19, Karl Lurman wrote:
> > I actually think that as a first step, we look at creating a
> > cross-platform LCD emulator to be used in conjunction with the
> > existing emulation work found here in this group (files section). 
I
> > have tested this emulation, and I have to say I actually like it
> > better than say the one used in LCxmu. The only thing it lacks is 
the
> > LCD to accompany it - at least on OSX. For PC I know there is
> > Huskervu, but I believe we need something that is open-sourced,
> > modular (more about this below), and platform independent. A java
> > application seems like the best candidate here, but I am open to 
the
> > idea of using something like Python too. With Java, we have 
access to
> > several low-level midi libraries, and we can guarantee most 
platforms
> > will have a JVM installed (OSX and Linux have it usually by 
default,
> > Windows = a download from Microsoft of Sun).
> >
> > Open-sourcing the project will encourage it to be developed and
> > maintained - Stuff Huskervu does not appear have any more.
> >
> > I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
> > mean that it provides an interface that other applications can 
access
> > it with. For instance, say you have made a mackie emulator 
application
> > for your control surface. This emulator handles the conversion of 
your
> > midi messages to the required mackie command messages for use in 
your
> > chosen DAW. So long as your emulator knows how to access the LCD
> > emulator (via its defined interface) it can display the necessary
> > mackie info. Heck, it doesn't even need to be mackie info, it 
could be
> > any standard (novation's one for instance).
> >
> > My initial thought was to see if I can't set up a java application
> > that can act as a midi input and output, middleware if you will. 
That
> > would be a great start... Unless someone already has something 
like
> > this I can have a play with already?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:57 AM, stutterbrain  
> > <stutterbrain@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> no coding ability whatsoever myself I'm afraid, but that 
definately
> >>  doesn't go for everyone on the list.
> >>  Is the aim to provide an emulation in some form? I am quite 
happily
> >>  emulating the functions I want just with midi presets on the 
bcr. I
> >>  have no controllers with LCDs of much use, I think Novation are
> >>  probably the only ones I can think of, and the korg microkontrol
> >>  (which I miss)...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Karl is trying to get a group together to code something cross
> >>> platform, I think? Java perhaps???
> >>>
> >>> Right, Karl?
> >>>
> >>> He has the source from C# huskervu now and one of the old mackie
> >>> manuals.
> >>> I am not a coder, so I can't be much help coding.
> >>> I did however, build GenMce
> >>> http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/
> >>> with synthedit.
> >>> It is not necessary with the bcr or bcf. The presets work great 
for
> >>> mackie mode. It also is not cross platform. It would be great 
if it
> >>> were...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> here we go:
> >>>> http://www.mediamax.com/stutter/Hosted/old%20logic%20control%
> >>> 20manual.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> last chapter.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "stutterbrain" <stutterbrain@>  
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> hehe, I had the same idea a little while ago, posted on the
> >>> ableton
> >>>>> forum since I thought someone there might already have 
thought of
> >>> it
> >>>>> and saved me some trouble. Didn't particularly seem to be the
> >>> case.
> >>>>> Anyway I just came back to it while hacking my padkontrol, 
and was
> >>>>> looking at a load of sysex in Midi-ox last night, although I
> >>> think I'm
> >>>>> going to steal someone else's idea and emulate parrts of the
> >>> Tranzport
> >>>>> for that... anyways:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Google for the Emagic Control Manual - quick look and I can't
> >>> find it
> >>>>> on web or my computer, must be on the old one, I dunno. If you
> >>> cannot
> >>>>> find it anywhere, and I do, I imagine I can upload it to
> >>> yousendit or
> >>>>> somewhere... anyway, the bit that I found interesting looked 
like
> >>> this
> >>>>> (taken from Tranzport manual):
> >>>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/stutter/Clipboard01.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a lot like that, so it might be the same - how many different
> >>> sysex to
> >>>>> ascii conversion methods can there be?
> >>>>> So, have a look at that, and set up midi-ox or some other midi
> >>> monitor
> >>>>> to capture the outgoing midi from your Mackie-capable host, 
and
> >>> see if
> >>>>> the sysex blocks translate into words.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also look up husker-vu and lc xmu - both prove that the 
display
> >>>>> amongst other things are possible (although you say you've 
seen
> >>> those
> >>>>> already, so maybe you don't want to look those up).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll have a look for that manual later on tonight.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matthew
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "goyya76" <goyya76@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i'd like to understand the sysex that are sent to the LCD
> >>> emulation
> >>>>>> (like huskervu), most of all when in VST inserts mode....my
> >>> idea would
> >>>>>> be to see if it's possible to associate other actions to the
> >>> host
> >>>>> output.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An example: BCR 2000 in MCU emulation mode; i switch to 
insert
> >>> editing
> >>>>>> mode, i choose insert 2, the virtual display updates showing
> >>> the name
> >>>>>> of the FX, the on/off status etc - all this happens via 
sysex -
> >>> if i
> >>>>>> send this sysex string to a suitable app (a modular host like
> >>> Usine)
> >>>>>> and i'm able to grab the name of the FX among this sysex 
string
> >>> (here
> >>>>>> comes the question), i could associate a different program
> >>> change to
> >>>>>> each FX name - sending the program change to the BCR, i could
> >>>>>> automatically associate the correct preset to each FX...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i suppose something like this is the basic principle on which
> >>>>>> Novation's Automap is based, ie using the feedback from the
> >>> host to
> >>>>>> change the controller assignement accordingly - i have a
> >>> feeling we
> >>>>>> could so something similar on our BCF/BCR....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> any hint on where to look to interpret the host feedback?? 
i've
> >>> seen
> >>>>>> two or three display emulation in the files section, and 
maybe

> >>> there's
> >>>>>> someone who coded them or helped to code or whatever...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>> Goyya
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

i con't feel alone anymore after starting this thread...actually i 
don't have an answer for the best environment in which develop 
a "prompting system", but your definition seems pretty good!

you've probably seen a good candidate is Java . roght now i'm trying 
to understand something on how it works (though i suppose my best 
score will be understanding a code, not writing my own one)

Ciao,
Goyya

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Steve Meiers <tekrytor@...> wrote:
>
> Re:
> " I believe the project needs to be designed as a module. By this, I
>  mean that it provides an interface that other applications can 
access
>  it with.:"
> 
> This is getting near ad dear to one of my favorite "needs" as a 
MIDI musician.
> 
> I would like a MIDI application (platform independent would be 
best) that accepts a MIDI a pair of CC numbers for a larger range, 
and opens documents (HTML, PDF, TXT, DOC, GIF, JPG, ???) that I can 
define by a path or hyperlink. It should be able to open to a certain 
page or marker in PDF files, too.
> 
> I'm talking about a prompting system and/or score manager for 
performers of all kinds. 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what software environment would be best to 
develop something like this, or if it already exists? I know that 
Alien"Somebody" does this, but it's a $500 piece of software and I 
think that's overpriced. Something like this should be opensource it 
seems. If I can figure it out, I would make it open source.
> 
> tekrytor
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 
Search.
>

> CC 10 23  =  Acrobat.exe /A "page=10=OpenActions" "C:\example.pdf"
> 
> I can write this in C++ as I have the Midi libraries ready to go 

hi Royce,

i'd like to see how that command line is written in C++...i just 
downloaded Microsoft Visual C++ to try and write some code, but i 
just have rememberings of FORTRAN from the university, so i would be 
glad to see how a command like that it's implemented - BTW, that 
command is a close sibling of what made me start the thread (ie, 
Mackie HUI Sysex = open plugin-specific text file).

just a comment for everyone who's following the thread...i downloaded 
JUCE (as per Martin advice) and JUCER (an app that allows the visual 
creation of GUIs with the JUCE library and generates the relative 
code) - i was impressed!
Also JUCE supports xml files and if i remember correctly vstxml too 
(Trackion supports vstxml, i read something around the web).

Ciao,
Goyya

Juce is nice, great for demanding graphical / audio / MIDI processing  
when Java doesn't quite deliver.

I'd be happy to help out with some coding or advice, Java or  
otherwise but to be honest I still don't understand what you're  
aiming for here!
I've reread the first email but still as confused. I thought you  
wanted a dynamic display showing something akin to a VU meter?

If you only want to open and display a static text or html page based  
on MIDI input (cc or sysex) then that should be very easy to do in  
Java. A little more effort for PDF since you need a separate library.  
The app can open a window (or several) and update the content as MIDI  
comes in.

If instead you want to issue a system command then that's even easier  
- no need for a GUI at all, just a config file mapping MIDI to commands.

Or have I got it all wrong?

ps as for implementing a command line in C++ it's probably easier  
than you think, you call int system ( const char * command ); and  
hope for the best!

/m

On 25 Mar 2008, at 8:40, goyya76 wrote:
>> CC 10 23  =  Acrobat.exe /A "page=10=OpenActions" "C:\example.pdf"
>>
>> I can write this in C++ as I have the Midi libraries ready to go
>
> hi Royce,
>
> i'd like to see how that command line is written in C++...i just
> downloaded Microsoft Visual C++ to try and write some code, but i
> just have rememberings of FORTRAN from the university, so i would be
> glad to see how a command like that it's implemented - BTW, that
> command is a close sibling of what made me start the thread (ie,
> Mackie HUI Sysex = open plugin-specific text file).
>
> just a comment for everyone who's following the thread...i downloaded
> JUCE (as per Martin advice) and JUCER (an app that allows the visual
> creation of GUIs with the JUCE library and generates the relative
> code) - i was impressed!
> Also JUCE supports xml files and if i remember correctly vstxml too
> (Trackion supports vstxml, i read something around the web).
>
> Ciao,
> Goyya
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

HI Martin

> Juce is nice, great for demanding graphical / audio / MIDI processing  
> when Java doesn't quite deliver.
> 
> I'd be happy to help out with some coding or advice, Java or  
> otherwise but to be honest I still don't understand what you're  
> aiming for here!

This would be great as I would like to learn a bit about Java & Midi
myself. So I'll leave this little app to you, if that's OK. 

I was just going to link CC chan ctrl# to a list of 127 command line
strings and shell out the command line when the app received the CC
message. I'm not sure if Goyya wanted to kill of the process when the
same CC message came in (ie toggle the app)

Channel was selectable in a radio box , ctrl# was selectable from an
editbox or list. The list of commands is in an editable listbox.
Save,load and Midi input select options in the menu.

This what I thought was required, if not perhaps Goyya can expand on
what he wants.

All the best
Royce

Hi guys,

> This what I thought was required, if not perhaps Goyya can expand on
> what he wants.

here we are: the basic idea is a standalone app that can prompt on its GUI informations read from a file when receiving a MIDI message; different MIDI message = different file, of course.

I'll try to summarize what has come out till now (long post, thanks for being patient!) - right now, I see 4 steps/possibilities… from my point of wiew, getting the first two done would already be a great result (and maybe not too difficult)!

1) BCR/BCF software GUI (my first thought):

· the GUI is a BCR/BCF image, under each knob/fader/button (not moving ones, just a fixed image) there's a text box

· the file is FUNCTION.txt (or .xml, …) and contains a list of the FUNCTION parameters, and the relative physical BCR/BCF control (for example encoder 1 = track 1 volume, encoder 2 =track 2 volume)

· ; the MIDI messages are...lots of options here:

• Mackie HUI sysex, namely those who contain the name of the active FUNCTION (which is displayed in the middle of Huskervu, BCF view or whatever, and can be the mixer, insert1 fx, a VSTi, etc); this sysex have to be interpreted (Huskervu source code can help i suppose) and automatically triggers the associated FUNCTION.txt file

o ; CC, program changes, etc; in this case a mapping between the CC and the correct file should be provided, the file triggering is not automatic, but for example you could have different soft labels for each BCF/BCR preset

The midi message triggers the FUNCTION file and the FUNCTION parameters names are displayed in the text boxes under the relative physical controllers.

This app would need just MIDI IN, to receive the trigger CC or the feedback from the host (the "auto-trigger mode" would work with every host supporting the Mackie HUI protocol, hosts with configurable remote control could use "the trigger CC" mode).

It would probably seem needless if you use a BCF in MCU mode + LCD emulator, BUT if you don't have a BCF and/or program the controller by yourself (we've got the great Art Hunkins examples here on how to program a BCR to freely emulate MCU functions) or use host like Cubase that lets you configure their remote control setup it would be damn useful…and it could work for whatever hardware controller too!

If I understand correctly, this basic app wouldn't be very difficult to implement, and would not need complex stuff like JUCE, just some Java… it's worth noting that all the MIDI programming would be done on the BCF/BCF and/or in the host.

2) A prompting system and/or score manager for performers of all kinds (Steve's idea):

• The GUI would just be a panel to set up MIDI input and assign MIDI CCs
• The file is a pdf, doc, jpg, etc file
• The MIDI message are…well, whatever!

MIDI messages trigger the "open file" function of the correct software, and maybe other functions, like page down for example (just think: you have a song scored in pdf, and the relative midi file playing in the the host; just insert a CC when you have to "turn page", and Adobe Reader does it for you – cool!)

This function could be a part of option 1), I guess…

;

3) An evoluted BCR/BCF software GUI

• Adding moving knobs to the GUI – they receive feedback from the host (again, following the Mackie protocol or a generic feedback)
• Adding support for vstxml file: some host support them, they allow to change the order of VST/VSTi parameters and to change their names to something meaningful if needed; that's useful to put the VST parameters in the same order they appear on the VST GUI (which isn't always the case) – so actually encoder 1 will move (left to right) the first knob of the VST GUI , encoder 2 the second and so on…the vstxml could be used also by the BCR/BCF software GUI to display parameters name, keeping everything coherent

The JUCE pack would maybe come handy for knobs? I suppose this step is quite more complex than the first two….

4) A soft BCR/BCF:

• Adding midi out
• All the programming is done in software (you just use preset-1 on th physical controller):
• BCR/BCF control via MIDI the GUI knobs, which outputs custom MIDI messages/sysex (maximum flexibility, multiple messages per knob, one shot CC + continuous CC for a knob)
• Support for presets and remote preset changing via MIDI
• Support for "multiple pages" presets (see Asseca's mGUI on www dot asseca dot com – I use it and took some ideas from it), ie if a soft synth has 70 params, it's relative preset has two pages – of course, midi remote page switch!

Are we getting into science fiction with this??

Hope I didn't forget something….

Ciao,

Francesco (Goyya)

Wow. I've read that first section four times and I understand less  
each time. I fear that if I continue, all things I think I understand  
will reveal themselves as unintelligible.

Otherwise it seems to make sense, I just don't know enough about  
Mackie HUI sysex, auto-trigger, MCU mode etc to be much help.

For a file viewer/prompter, I would suggest:
- let the application manage and display the docs in its own window,  
rather than open dozens of helper apps and windows.
- decide on a subset of formats to support, eg start with plain text  
and html and do pdf later.

Then you could take the following coding approach in Java:

- receive MIDI message, map to a 'location' string and media type.
- choose a viewer depending on type, eg html or text.
- create or reuse a JFrame to hold the document that is being viewed,  
then add viewer.

For HTML viewing this is as easy as:

String location;
JFrame frame = new JFrame("my viewer window");
URL url = new URL(location);
JEditorPane text = new JEditorPane(url);
text.setEditable(false);
frame.getContentPane().add(new JScrollPane(text));
frame.setSize(500, 500);

etc. PDF requires a third party library - several open source ones  
are available.
You could quite easily add a resource type for system commands, to  
launch an arbitrary command and let it do it's thing. Closing/ 
controlling the command will be tricky to impossible though.


The mapping configuration could contain:
- the type of MIDI message, cc, noteon, sysex
- MIDI channel
- MIDI message value (in the case of sysex this could maybe be a  
regular expression)
- resource type: text/html/pdf etc.
- resource URL

So for example, when a cc1 with value 64 is received on channel 1,  
open the html file sheetmusic.html at anchor 'chorus':
cc1	1	64	html	file://sheetmusic.html#chorus

Just my tuppence, of course.


I realise I've probably muddled things more by talking Java at you,  
though if anyone decides to venture down this path I hope the info  
will be useful.


cheers,

/m

On 26 Mar 2008, at 11:42, goyya76 wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
>
> > This what I thought was required, if not perhaps Goyya can expand on
> > what he wants.
>
>
> here we are: the basic idea is a standalone app that can prompt on  
> its GUI informations read from a file when receiving a MIDI  
> message; different MIDImessage = different file, of course.
>
>
>
> I'll try to summarize what has come out till now (long post, thanks  
> for being patient!) -  right now,  I see 4 steps/possibilities…  
> from my point of wiew, getting the first two done would already be  
> a great result (and maybe not too difficult)!
>
>
>
> 1) BCR/BCF software GUI (my first thought):
>
> ·        the GUI is a BCR/BCF image, under each knob/fader/button  
> (not moving ones, just a fixed image) there's a  text box
>
> ·        the file is FUNCTION.txt (or .xml, …) and contains a list  
> of the FUNCTION parameters, and the relative physical BCR/BCF  
> control (for example encoder 1 = track 1 volume, encoder 2 =track 2  
> volume)
>
> ·        the MIDI messages are...lots of options here:
>
> Mackie HUI sysex, namely those who contain the name of the active  
> FUNCTION (which is  displayed in the middle of Huskervu, BCF view  
> or whatever, and can be the mixer, insert1 fx, a VSTi, etc);  this  
> sysex have to be interpreted  (Huskervu source code can help i  
> suppose) andautomatically triggers the associated FUNCTION.txt file
> o     CC, program changes, etc; in this case a mapping between the  
> CC and the correct file should be provided, the file triggering is  
> not automatic, but for example you could have different soft labels  
> for each BCF/BCR preset
>
>
> The midi message triggers the FUNCTION file and the FUNCTION  
> parameters names are displayed in the text boxes under the relative  
> physical controllers.
>
> This app would  need just MIDI IN, to receive the trigger CC or the  
> feedback from the host (the "auto-trigger mode" would work with  
> every host supporting the Mackie HUI protocol, hosts with  
> configurable remote control could use "the trigger CC" mode).
>
>  It would probably seem needless if you use a BCF in MCU mode + LCD  
> emulator, BUT if you don't have a BCF and/or program the controller  
> by yourself (we've got the great Art Hunkins examples here on how  
> to program a BCR to freely emulate MCU functions) or use host like  
> Cubase that lets you configure their remote control setup  it would  
> be damn useful…and it could work for whatever hardware controller too!
>
> If I understand correctly, this basic app wouldn't be very  
> difficult to implement, and would not need complex stuff like JUCE,  
> just some Java… it's worth noting that all the MIDI programming  
> would be done on the BCF/BCF and/or in the host.
>
>
>
> 2) A prompting system and/or score manager for performers of all  
> kinds (Steve's idea):
>
>
>
> The GUI would just be a panel to set up MIDI input and assign MIDI CCs
> The file is a pdf, doc, jpg, etc file
> The MIDI message are…well, whatever!
> MIDI messages trigger the "open file" function of the correct  
> software, and maybe other functions, like page down for example  
> (just think:  you have a song scored in pdf, and the relative midi  
> file playing in the the host; just insert a CC when you have to  
> "turn page", and Adobe Reader does it for you – cool!)
>
> This function could be a part of option 1), I guess…
>
>
>
> 3) An evoluted BCR/BCF software GUI
>
>
>
> Adding moving knobs to the GUI – they receive feedback from the  
> host (again, following the Mackie protocol or a generic feedback)
> Adding support for vstxml file:  some host support them, they allow  
> to change the order of VST/VSTi parameters and to change their  
> names to something meaningful if needed; that's useful to put the  
> VST parameters in the same order they appear on the VST GUI (which  
> isn't always the case) – so actually encoder 1 will move (left to  
> right) the first knob of the VST GUI , encoder 2 the second and so  
> on…the vstxml could be used also by the BCR/BCF software GUI to  
> display parameters name, keeping everything coherent
> The JUCE pack would maybe come handy for knobs? I suppose this step  
> is quite more complex than the first two….
>
>
>
> 4) A soft BCR/BCF:
>
>
>
> Adding midi out
> All the programming is done in software (you just use preset-1 on  
> th physical controller):
> BCR/BCF control via MIDI the GUI knobs, which outputs custom MIDI  
> messages/sysex (maximum flexibility, multiple messages per knob,  
> one shot CC + continuous CC for a knob)
> Support for presets and remote preset changing via MIDI
> Support for  "multiple pages" presets (see Asseca's mGUI on www dot  
> asseca dot com – I use it and took some ideas from it),  ie if a  
> soft synth has 70 params,  it's relative preset has two pages – of  
> course, midi remote page switch!
> Are we getting into science fiction with this??
>
>
>
> Hope I didn't forget something….
>
>
>
> Ciao,
>
> Francesco (Goyya)
>
>

Hi Martin,

> Wow. I've read that first section four times and I understand less  
> each time. I fear that if I continue, all things I think I 
understand  
> will reveal themselves as unintelligible.

i tried to be clear but apparently failed...now i realize there's an 
easier way to describe the app i'm thinking about (the first), so if 
you're still curious...
the app should:

-have the GUI of your bcr_steps
-have a text box under each control
-be able to receive midi messages (sysex woulf be a nice addition)
-have a mapping between a set of midi messages and a set of text files

  CC1 ch1... ClassicChorus.txt
  CC2 ch1... Synth1.txt

each text files should contain "labels" to be put in the text boxes,
like:

ClassicChorus.txt
 encoder 1: "rate"
 encoder 2: "depth"
 etc

Synth1.txt 
 encoder 1: "filter cutoff"
 encoder 2: "attack"
 encoder 3: "decay" 
 etc

also, there's no need for moving knobs...

Ciao, Francesco

On 26 Mar 2008, at 22:57, goyya76 wrote:
> i tried to be clear but apparently failed...

It's not you, it's me!

I understand now, I think, but I have a question: could you not  
achieve the same result with a set of static pictures of the bcr/f  
with labels?
Then you just swap out the pictures.
It would mean having to prepare the pics manually in a graphics  
package, but that's a one-off effort, and easy enough once you've got  
a template.

/m

yes...but i thought that the label approach was easy to implement, so 
i thought to go that way because of flexibility and because i use 
Cubase which support vstwml files, which actually are text files with 
the list of the parameters (so i already have a sort 
of "ClassicChorus.txt")

Right now, i'm trying to compile some JUCER generated code - i put 
just a knob, created a project in MS Visual Studio and inserted 
the .cpp and .h files in it - then the compiler asks fore Juce.h, i 
put it into the project but it tells me "Cannot open include 
file: 'juce.h': No such file or directory"...
I thought it could be a cut&paste exercise, but i guess i 
underevaluated it!

better have some sleep...

Take care,

Francesco


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klang <mars@...> wrote:
>
> 
> On 26 Mar 2008, at 22:57, goyya76 wrote:
> > i tried to be clear but apparently failed...
> 
> It's not you, it's me!
> 
> I understand now, I think, but I have a question: could you not  
> achieve the same result with a set of static pictures of the bcr/f  
> with labels?
> Then you just swap out the pictures.
> It would mean having to prepare the pics manually in a graphics  
> package, but that's a one-off effort, and easy enough once you've 
got  

> a template.
> 
> /m
>

Hi Martin, just an additional comment..

> yes...but i thought that the label approach was easy to implement, so 
> i thought to go that way because of flexibility and because i use 
> Cubase which support vstwml files, which actually are text files with 
> the list of the parameters (so i already have a sort 
> of "ClassicChorus.txt")

i thought to go for a software solution also because (as you'we seen in 
my "Lord of Ring - long" post) it could be expanded to become a very 
powerful solution (i always think about a sort of Novation's Universal 
Automap for a generic controller!)

Ciao,
Francesco