Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi,

I must be doing something wrong. I measured the expert color target. Then I named the 
profile and saved. All went well.

Then I went back and measured the extended greys target. When I measured the target, it 
told me that I was using an the existing file that was used to measure the expert target. I 
wasn't concerned as I was adding the measurements to that file. At least so I thought.

After measuring, I clicked next and when asked for a profile name it wouldn't let me name it 
because it said that I had to have an existing measurement file to add the extended greys 
measurement to. So I am not sure what I have done wrong. Have I contaminated my expert 
measurement file by ignoring the question and proceeding to measure the extended greys 
while I had it open? I hope not. How should I proceed at this point?

Thanks,

John

On Jan 4, 2009, at 12:40 PM, John Arnold wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I must be doing something wrong. I measured the expert color target.  
> Then I named the
> profile and saved. All went well.
>
>

So far: no problem. (You used either the 3 page, 729 patch target or the
1 page, 729 patch target).

But there is no room for extended grays in those targets! That's where  
your
problem is.

When using the Expert target, you need to separately measure the  
Extended Grays
into their own template (the extended grays template). This gives you  
two measurement
files: one for the colors, the other for the grays. They don't go into  
the same
measurement file.
> Then I went back and measured the extended greys target. When I  
> measured the target, it
> told me that I was using an the existing file that was used to  
> measure the expert target.
>

That's because you went to the Read Patches screen; selected your  
colors target file;
and attempted to add the gray measurements to it. Currently, the  
software won't
work that way.

You have to select the Extended Grays template on the Select Target  
screen;
step forward to the Read patches screen; and then create a new  
measurement
file to hold the grays. Click Save Measurements To..., use a different  
file
name, etc. and then measure into -that-. (It will be a single page).
> I
> wasn't concerned as I was adding the measurements to that file. At  
> least so I thought.
>
> After measuring, I clicked next and when asked for a profile name it  
> wouldn't let me name it
> because it said that I had to have an existing measurement file to  
> add the extended greys
> measurement to. So I am not sure what I have done wrong. Have I  
> contaminated my expert
> measurement file by ignoring the question and proceeding to measure  
> the extended greys
> while I had it open?
>

Yes. You overmeasured the colors with the grays, sorry to say, and  
you'll need to
remeasure those.
> I hope not. How should I proceed at this point?
>
>

- Remeasure the colors, into the "colors" measurement file.

- Create a new file for the grays, as described above, and measure the
grays ONLY into that.

- When you build a profile, you'll choose the "colors" file in the  
main popup
in the bottom section of the Read Patches screen; then check the "Use  
Extended Grays"
box, and select your (separate) extended grays measurement file in the  
popup beneath
that.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> 

> At this point you've messed up your existing color target, by measuring gray values over it. 
You'll need to measure the printed color target again, or at least remeasure the section 
you've overwritten with gray values. Then you'll need to measure the gray target into a gray 
target template, not a color one, and save separately. Then select both files to build a 
composite color/grayscale profile.
> --

Thanks to both of you for the prompt response. Looks like I am learning the hard way. At 
least I have the extended greys measured as that's the last thing I did. But the name of the 
file is misleading since it says that it contains the expert color target. Is there a way to 
rename that file to reflect that it measures extended greys?

John

On Jan 4, 2009, at 1:24 PM, John Arnold wrote:

> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
> >
> >
>
> > At this point you've messed up your existing color target, by  
> measuring gray values over it.
> You'll need to measure the printed color target again, or at least  
> remeasure the section
> you've overwritten with gray values. Then you'll need to measure the  
> gray target into a gray
> target template, not a color one, and save separately. Then select  
> both files to build a
> composite color/grayscale profile.
> > --
>
> Thanks to both of you for the prompt response. Looks like I am  
> learning the hard way. At
> least I have the extended greys measured as that's the last thing I  
> did. But the name of the
> file is misleading since it says that it contains the expert color  
> target. Is there a way to
> rename that file to reflect that it measures extended greys?
>
>

You need to remeasure the 729 colors into that file; not only because  
it's named
that way, but because the file itself is internally configured that  
way. (The
software will always use this file as a container for 729  
measurements, no matter
how you have it named, and there's no way for you to override this)

Likewise, you can't change that file to behave like a true "extended  
grays" file,
for the same reason (to save yourself the time needed to remeasure the  
extended grays).

Your only way forward is to remeasure the 729 colors, in the colors  
file; and
to create a new file specifically for extended grays (you HAVE to do  
this by
selecting the proper "template" first) and measure the grays into that.

When in doubt as to which kind of file you're measuring into: switch  
the display mode
for an open Target window to Pure. It will SHOW you what you should be  
measuring. Never
measure the wrong target into the "wrong" kind of Target window  
configuration.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:

> 
> You need to remeasure the 729 colors into that file; not only because  
> it's named
> that way, but because the file itself is internally configured that  
> way. (The
> software will always use this file as a container for 729  
> measurements, no matter
> how you have it named, and there's no way for you to override this)
> 
> Likewise, you can't change that file to behave like a true "extended  
> grays" file,
> for the same reason (to save yourself the time needed to remeasure the  
> extended grays).
> 
> Your only way forward is to remeasure the 729 colors, in the colors  
> file; and
> to create a new file specifically for extended grays (you HAVE to do  
> this by
> selecting the proper "template" first) and measure the grays into that.
> 
> When in doubt as to which kind of file you're measuring into: switch  
> the display mode
> for an open Target window to Pure. It will SHOW you what you should be  
> measuring. Never
> measure the wrong target into the "wrong" kind of Target window  
> configuration.
> 
> 
The extended grey file that I measured is showing up in the extended grey drop down. But 
it has the name of the file that I had originally used to measure the 723 patch target. So I 
think I just messed up by giving it the same name. So if it is in the right template, can I 
rename it?

John
>

>
> >
> The extended grey file that I measured is showing up in the extended  
> grey drop down.
>

Ok, now I see what happened.  You completely "clobbered" the colors  
file when
you recreated it. So it's actually a grays template, and contains a  
full set of
grays measurements, but you just have it named wrong.
> But
> it has the name of the file that I had originally used to measure  
> the 723 patch target. So I
> think I just messed up by giving it the same name. So if it is in  
> the right template, can I
> rename it?
>
>
>

Yes, you can (and that also means you don't have to remeasure those  
grays).

Do that first;

then, create a NEW measurement file, with the template set for the 729  
colors,
and then measure the colors into that.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:
>
> >
> 
> Yes, you can (and that also means you don't have to remeasure those  
> grays).
> 
> Do that first;
> 
> then, create a NEW measurement file, with the template set for the 729  
> colors,
> and then measure the colors into that.
> 

Thanks David. How do I rename the file? Can I do that from within the program or do I need to go to the file in Windows?

John

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:
>
> >
> 
> Yes, you can (and that also means you don't have to remeasure those  
> grays).
> 
> Do that first;
> 
> then, create a NEW measurement file, with the template set for the 729  
> colors,
> and then measure the colors into that.
> 

Thanks David. How do I rename the file? Can I do that from within the program or do I need to go to the file in Windows?

John