Datacolor User to User Support Group.

First...I can't believe that it took a browser search to find this
list and then discover that I already belonged to it and had
completely forgotten...duh...'-}}

Second...this is somewhat embarassing to admit because I consider
myself at least a wee bit above basic bozo-hood when it comes to both
color management and monitor calibration BUT!!! 

Yesterday, I downloaded and installed version 3.0.7 Spyder3Pro
software. In the process of recalibrating my NEC 2090Uxi LCD monitor,
I discovered that the reason that it took me eons to calibrate using
version 3.0.4 was not because the software was deficient in any way
but because I'd been adjusting the WRONG things in the NEC OSM RGB
options. 

I'd been adjusting the HUE settings rather than the White Point
settings which is, as noted above, rather embarassing. 

Part of the difficulty is the not very enlightening NEC documentation
and it was just pure luck that I stumbled across the proper RGB
options--we won't discuss my opinion of the Spyder3Pro
documentation...well...I can't help myself and the most polite thing
that I can say about it is that it's sadly lacking most all respects
in terms of being informative and helpful.

It's really rather amazing to see the subtle colors on my monitor that
I've never seen before--who knew that in Explorer (WinXP, classic
windows detail display) the filename area has an underlay of a very
pale sort of green-y color?

Ok...now that's out of the way...let me ask a few questions and make
some observations:

1. Using version 3.0.7, it takes 25-30 seconds for the profile to be
established when my system has completed booting (a pop-up window
displays with the message)--not my experience with verison 3.0.4. I
filed a support ticket receiving an answer rather quickly that "a
delay has been instituted in the loading of the profile to ensure that
the Spyder3 profile will be loaded after other, possibly conflicting,
startup items have futzed with the video card."

Ok...I can understand the concept but 25-30 seconds worth of delay?!!!



2. In the Spyder Utility preferences for Video Card, it appears that
if I choose "Never" for "Load video card lookup table (LUT) every..."
that the profile is never loaded. 

Is that the correct interpretation on my part?

If so, perhaps in the next version of the Spyder Utility software,
this could be reworked adding an option "load LUT on boot" /"Load
Profile on boot" along with the option(s) to check the LUT table
periodically--personally, I've never had a profile unload itself and
have had no need to periodically check the LUT table so requiring me
to add this periodic check to my system overhead just to get the
profile loaded on boot is annoying.



3. The load delay and the (probably minimal system overhead) is
annoying enough that I'm considering uninstalling version 3.0.7 and
reinstalling version 3.0.4. If I do this, I think that I should do it
in the following way:

     3A. Remove the load of the Spyder Utility software from the ALL
USERS Startup directory

     3B. Remove the monitor profile from the Color Management tab for
the monitor

     3C. Reboot--with no load of the Spyder Utility and no profile
specified, my monitor should be UN-profiled at this point

     3D. Uninstall Spyder3Pro version 3.0.7 software and probably reboot

     3E. Reset my monitor back to factory specs via the monitor's OSM

     3F. Install Spyder3Pro version 3.0.4 software and go through the
calibration process

Does this seem reasonable or overkill? Basically, I was thinking that
this starts me with a clean slate. 

Thanks much for any advice and suggestions...

Terrie
http://tlbtlb.com/
tlbtlb@...


PS: Lastly...because I have you captive here...some further
observations (also passed on to datacolor via my reply to my support
ticket):

1. It would be nice if there were documentation on the tabs and
options in the Spyder Utility.

2. It would also be nice if a note were to be added in the
documentation for options that are only available for the SpyderElite
(for example: "only available for the SpyderElite" or "not available
for the SpyderPro"). To be perfectly frank, none the Spyder3
documentation is helpful or informative--basically it's pretty lousy.

3. The url referenced in all of the documentation (
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3 ) does not exist

4. The videos on the datacolor.com site are not captioned for those of
us with a hearing loss so the videos are not accessible

Hi David...

>>I'm glad you aren't having LUT-wars on your XP system, but others,
especially under Vista, have been having a range of issues, and while
most of these issues are the OS's fault, we are doing out best to
address them, so that users can achieve, and maintain, managed color.

I really *do* understand the reasoning behind the delay but it just
seems like a llloooonnggg time to wait for the LUT load. I will play with

Whoa!!! this is really odd!!! I was just going to check the Spyder
Utility option about turning off notification and I went to click on
the Spyder icon in my system tray and it disappeared!!! Hmmm...odd...

Anyway...what I was going to say is that I will play with turning off
the notification (assuming I'm remembering the options correctly)
probably setting it to "errors only" and see if that makes a
difference in the LUT loading time...


>>My understanding is that it is simply waiting until later in the 
startup process, not holding the system hostage. How often do you find 
it necessary to restart? I don't do it more than every month or two, 
but that might indicate that I'm not on Windows...

It's holding the system hostage in the sense that it appears that the
LUT loading takes 25-30 seconds to occur--I can actually see the
screen colors change when the load takes place--AFTER the boot has
completed with my desktop displaying so I can't/won't do anything
until that occurs. It's not that the boot process itself takes longer,
it's that other than the LUT loading, everything is ready to go.

As to rebooting...well...it's interesting...I used to shut my system
down daily when I was finished for the day and then when my old system
began to slowly die, I started leaving it on because the initial
indication of its impending death was problem with being able to turn
on my pc and it turned out that I liked having my system available all
of the time so when I got my new system, I began leaving it on all the
time. I do turn it off when I leave my house for a number of hours
because I'm a bit paranoid about power outages (not a frequent
occurance fortunately but it does happen) and even though I have a
UPS, it just makes me feel better not to leave the system running when
I'm going for a longer period of time.

And...I'm going to have to reboot shortly to get back the Spyder icon
in the system tray...

Sooo...I don't reboot as often as I used to but I do do it more
frequently that you do...'-}}


>>Its not the profiles, but the LUTs that load. However much of the 
color correction is in the LUTs, so you need to load them...

Yes...I understand that and I just wanted to confirm my understanding
that in choosing "never", the LUTs are not loaded...


>>We moved from a one time startup item to a full time utility, because 
there are several things we need to do at times other than startup. 
Overhead is minimal...

I figured the overhead on the checking is minimal but why not give
users the option to load the LUTs and NOT have a constant check going
on? I don't believe that programatically, this would be a time
consuming/difficult option to add--the logic is quite straightforward
and it allows flexibility for the user which as an old programmer is
(generally) not a bad thing...


>>I would recommend against this, there are fixes in 3.0.7 worth
having, and the "overhead" won't be significantly different in 3.0.4...

OK...I'll give it more thought...


>>Not interested in covering methods of downgrading our software on
this forum... if you really need help with this, contact support...

Fair enough...


>>Last month's newsletter discussed these, though probably not the 
details you would want. We have not updated the integrated Help files 
(in ten languages, on multiple platforms) for each dot.dot upgrade, so 
we have not covered the latest changes to the utility there.

Sorry David...I don't think this is acceptable. If you update the
software, it's vitally important to update the documenation
particularly when new functionality is added to the software. 



>>We do get the "lousy documentation" comment every so often, but since 
we get the "great documentation" comment much, much more often, we 
take it in perspective. Its usually engineers and programmers who are 
not happy with it, and end users and reviewers who like it. Not sure 
the same documentation could ever satisfy both groups. Either way, we 
hope to do more work on ease of use, and easy to understand 
documentation later this year. That might not move things in the 
direction you are looking for, however..

Let me just say this...I think that what might be very helpful would
be an overview (tutorial??) of the process--with
screenshots!!!--presented to the user first thing. Perhaps as an
intial screen that says something like "would you like see an overview
of the calibration process" with an option to turn this prompt off
(experience users probably wouldn't want/need to see it). Please note,
I'm not talking about a video (or flash presentation) but a basic
step-by-step description of the process with screen shots. If you did
go video (or flash) *PLEASE* remember to caption the presentation for
those of us with a hearing loss.

I had used the CRT Spyder for many years and my expectation was that I
would have NO problems with the Spdyer3 and that was not the case. I
had a frustrating time with my initial use of the software because I
didn't know where it was going. I would have found an overview of the
process most helpful because it would give me a feel for how the
process worked and what each step of the process involved. 

The current Help text on a scale of 1-10 (where 1 is abysmal and 10 is
perfection) is about a 6 as many of the Help screens can be
informative but overall it lack cohesiveness.

I speak from my experience as a systems analyst and programmer but
also as someone who has taught and developed both technical and
end-user (as in less experienced) classes and documentation and was
considered pretty good at all of that...'-}}


>>I copied this URL directly from your email to a browser window, and
it took me to the Datacolor site's Spyder3 section. That would qualify
as "existing" to end users, even if its a referred location, not a 
literal one.

I just checked this an you are correct...not sure what was going on
when I tried to use it before...


>>Nor are they available in all ten languages, or in high contrast for 
the visually impaired, etc. We have been working on the theory that 
quick and dirty videos (YouTube quality, so to speak) that meet the 
needs of many of our English language users are worthwhile. If we 
waited for the time and budget to make them all things for all people, 
they wouldn't be there at all.

You're theory is mistaken...

Thank you for spending the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it...

Terrie
http://tlbtlb.com/
tlbtlb@...

>>cdtobie <CDTobie@...>: Well, to do this for both Pro and Elite
(which has a lot more possible paths) would be a huge undertaking

I realize that it would likely be complicated given the variety of
monitors and OS's but I do think a somewhat generic approach would be
reasonable and having spent most of my life looking at mac screen
shots when I'm pc based (and lived to tell the tale another day), I do
think your "no, XP users are not willing to go by Vista shots, etc" is
a bit of a fallacy--with the caveat that the basic functionality is
the same/similar.

Another approach would be to provide the info as a PDF document rather
than as part of the software--a white paper so to speak--supplied on
the installation CD and available on the website would allow for
greater flexibility in its creation (and updating) in that it could be
written once in one language and then perhaps more easily translated
to other languages. 

Documentation is crucial not only for your users but also because as a
company it is a way to display to both your current users/customers
and to *potential* customers that it is important to the company to
help users use the company's products. It makes for satisfied and
happy customers who will then recommend these products to others which
increases the company's bottom line. 

While I appreciate your sharing the difficulties involved, to be
perfectly frank, blowing off things like my observations about
accessible videos or this process overview by citing how much work is
invovled leads to (what I hope is a mistaken) impression about the
overall quality of a company's products--if the company is not willing
to invest in their customers, then why should the customer invest in
the company?

Thank you for your time...

Terrie
http://tlbtlb.com/
tlbtlb@mail.com