Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hello All,

I just bought a Canon iPF5100 to replace my terminally-clogged Epson 
4800.  (Nice printer, BTW, but physically much bigger than the 
Epson.)  One puzzle, though. On the Canons, there are 2 ways to print 
from Photoshop: 

1) via the "normal" driver (similar to the Epson driver), after using 
the PS "Print with Preview" screen to assign my custom Spyderprint 
profiles, and making sure "matching" is set to Off in the driver

2) via the Canon Print Plug-In, choosing the custom profile in the 
Plug-In

The driver prints are correct (they match my Spyder-calibrated 
monitor, and also match my old Epson prints which were done using my 
custom Epson profiles). But the Plug-In prints are way off in color.

I could simply use the driver for printing, but the Plug-In has a 
much nicer preview to check layout, and also allows 16-bit data to be 
sent to the printer. (I've tried 8 vs. 16-bit, also Standard, High, 
and Highest modes... no change in the color output -- all are wrong 
compared to driver.)

Does anyone know why the Plug-In would handle profiles differently 
than the driver?  This happens with both Canon stock profiles and my 
custom-generated profiles.

I am using Windows XP Pro, Photoshop CS2, a Canon iPF5100, and the 
problem is more noticeable on canvas than on the glossy stock I 
compared earlier. I have the latest versions of the Canon software. 
And the Spyderprint 3.5 profile looks great (thru the driver).

Thanks!

John

Profiles built through the driver won't be correct for the export  
module (or visa versa) as they are totally different drivers. But  
built through the correct method, either produces excellent results. I  
don't see a lot of improvement from the highbit route; and the export  
module did not (last time I checked) print B&W, but by printing the  
TIFF format targets through Photoshop, you should be able to build  
profiles that will allow you to print accurately in color mode,  
including B&W and tinted B&W prints.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Feb 1, 2009, at 5:28 PM, "John Broski" <jbroski@...> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I just bought a Canon iPF5100 to replace my terminally-clogged Epson
> 4800.  (Nice printer, BTW, but physically much bigger than the
> Epson.)  One puzzle, though. On the Canons, there are 2 ways to print
> from Photoshop:
>
> 1) via the "normal" driver (similar to the Epson driver), after using
> the PS "Print with Preview" screen to assign my custom Spyderprint
> profiles, and making sure "matching" is set to Off in the driver
>
> 2) via the Canon Print Plug-In, choosing the custom profile in the
> Plug-In
>
> The driver prints are correct (they match my Spyder-calibrated
> monitor, and also match my old Epson prints which were done using my
> custom Epson profiles). But the Plug-In prints are way off in color.
>
> I could simply use the driver for printing, but the Plug-In has a
> much nicer preview to check layout, and also allows 16-bit data to be
> sent to the printer. (I've tried 8 vs. 16-bit, also Standard, High,
> and Highest modes... no change in the color output -- all are wrong
> compared to driver.)
>
> Does anyone know why the Plug-In would handle profiles differently
> than the driver?  This happens with both Canon stock profiles and my
> custom-generated profiles.
>
> I am using Windows XP Pro, Photoshop CS2, a Canon iPF5100, and the
> problem is more noticeable on canvas than on the glossy stock I
> compared earlier. I have the latest versions of the Canon software.
> And the Spyderprint 3.5 profile looks great (thru the driver).
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:40 PM, John Broski wrote:

> Any other ideas?

Sounds like there may still be some issues with drivers and color  
management, these have been haunting the recent versions of OS X and  
Photoshop. What OS and what PS version are you using.?

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Feb 3, 2009, at 12:37 PM, John Broski wrote:

> Thanks for taking the time for this, C.D.... I realize this probably  
> isn't a Datacolor issue at all!

When people can't get color managed prints, its a Datacolor issue,  
even it its some place else that the problem is occurring. If Canon  
does not have any solutions for you, get back to me, we've been  
dealing with these issues for a while now, and may have some info that  
you won't get from Canon.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:40 PM, John Broski wrote:

> Thanks for the quick answer, CD!  But there seems to be something  
> else going on.  Here's what I did:
>
> 1. Printed the TIFF targets (225 patch and grayscale) through  
> Photoshop, using the Export Module.  I made sure the TIFFs had no  
> imbedded profile.  In the module, Output Profile was set to "None  
> (No Color Correction)".  All other color settings in module were set  
> to default (zero) positions.  For good measure, I opened the Print  
> With Preview box in Photoshop and set Color Handling to "No Color  
> Management" before opening the module.  (Don't know if that matters.)
>
> 2. Read the patches and built profile in Spyderprint 3 as usual.
>
> 3. Printed thru the module, choosing my new profile as the Output  
> Profile.  No other changes to any setting in module.
>
> Result: Just like before!  (Colors pale and lifeless, especially  
> purples and yellows.)  The profile made thru the module may well be  
> a tiny bit different from the one made thru the driver, but it's not  
> obvious.  The result is still obviously different from the print  
> made thru the driver, though, where colors are fine.
>
> Any other ideas?  Is there perhaps a hidden, low-level profile being  
> associated with the Canon 5100 somewhere else?  Should I delete the  
> printer's "associated profiles" using Windows?  I hear there's an  
> issue with the Canon module not liking Version 4 ICC profiles  
> (though it doesn't sound the same... that crashes the module).  Are  
> the Spyderprint 3 profiles Version 4 or 2?

Here's one more thing to try. Assign (don't convert! just assign) the  
GenericRGB profile to the targets in Photoshop before printing using  
the assign profile menu command. Compare them to your previous  
targets, and see if they are the same. Then, take the profile you  
create, convert in Photoshop from your workingspace, to your printer  
profile using the convert to profile menu command. I'd suggest  
saturation intent and no BPC, but whatever. Then, once its converted  
and ready for printing, assign (again. like with the target, don't  
convert!) the GenericRGB profile. This bit with the generic profile is  
to make sure that some combination of the OS, the driver, and the  
Photoshop version aren't triggering an unintended conversion to  
Generic RGB; if you SAY its already in GenericRGB, then that will save  
you from unintended color conversions, even if this bug is triggered.  
If all this works, then printing again, without the Assign GenericRGB  
step at the end, in case its the conversion in Photoshop in advance of  
printing thats doing the trick for you, not the assign GenericRGB step.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:44 PM, John Broski wrote:

> Thanks, David!  But before I try to figure all of this out, one dumb  
> question:  You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far  
> as I know, that's a Mac term.

Yes, and a hack for a Mac-based color management issue...

>   I'm using Windows XP.  Would I still do the steps you've  
> suggested, substituting the phrase "Adobe RGB 1998" for "Generic  
> RGB"?  Or is your proposed experiment a Mac-only thing?

No, the rule (broken above for a specific bug) is to NOT assign or  
convert targets, to print them raw, which is what you would want to to  
under Windows.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

>You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far as I know, that's
a Mac term.

 

That is not a Mac term.  I think that what is being referred to is the
monitor profile labeled as "RGB" or "RGB monitor" as opposed to Adobe RGB,
sRGB, or some other form of RGB color space.

From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Broski
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:44 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Canon iPF 5100 Printer Puzzle -- Driver
Versus PS Plug-In

 

Thanks, David!  But before I try to figure all of this out, one dumb
question:  You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far as I
know, that's a Mac term.  I'm using Windows XP.  Would I still do the steps
you've suggested, substituting the phrase "Adobe RGB 1998" for "Generic
RGB"?  Or is your proposed experiment a Mac-only thing?

 

Assuming I'm right about using Adobe RGB, do I have the steps straight?

 

1) Open targets (untagged) in Photoshop and assign (don't convert) Adobe RGB
to them

2) Print targets thru plug-in with "None" as the Output Profile

3) Read targets and build profile

4) Open a test image in PS, convert to new printer profile

5) Assign Adobe RGB to the image

6) Print thru plug-in, again with "None" selected

7) Check to see if print looks correct 

 

One question:  Remember, I can already print thru the plug-in and get good
results by first converting the image to the printer profile in PS, then
printing with "None" set in Output Profile in the plug-in.  But I'm hoping
to avoid that workaround, because I often forget I've done the conversion
and then save the image (now in printer/paper colorspace), leading to
confusion -- and damaging extra conversions -- down the road.  So... would
the test you propose give us information, so I eventually wouldn't need a
workaround?

 

Thanks as always!  You're the best.

 

John

On Feb 26, 2009, at 3:08 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:

> >You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far as I know,  
> that's a Mac term.
>
>
>
> That is not a Mac term.  I think that what is being referred to is  
> the monitor profile labeled as “RGB” or “RGB monitor” as opposed to  
> Adobe RGB, sRGB, or some other form of RGB color space.
>
Actually, it is a Mac specific term: its an exact profile name for one  
of the identity profiles provided in recent Mac OS versions. The  
concept, in my post, is to assign it, so that a null transform will  
occur, in cases where (inappropriately) a transform is currently  
occuring, and causing problems printing targets, which must be printed  
without conversion.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@datacolor.com

I stand corrected.

From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C D Tobie
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:58 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Canon iPF 5100 Printer Puzzle -- Driver
Versus PS Plug-In

 


On Feb 26, 2009, at 3:08 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:

> >You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far as I know, 
> that's a Mac term.
>
>
>
> That is not a Mac term. I think that what is being referred to is 
> the monitor profile labeled as "RGB" or "RGB monitor" as opposed to 
> Adobe RGB, sRGB, or some other form of RGB color space.
>
Actually, it is a Mac specific term: its an exact profile name for one 
of the identity profiles provided in recent Mac OS versions. The 
concept, in my post, is to assign it, so that a null transform will 
occur, in cases where (inappropriately) a transform is currently 
occuring, and causing problems printing targets, which must be printed 
without conversion.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie%40datacolor.com>

I wouldn't worry about "corrected"; but informed about "the other  
side" perhaps...

In case you didn't know, Laurie, I won't be seeing you in Seattle next  
week, as duty calls, and I will be at PMA in Las Vegas, announcing a  
new product instead. I suspect that others on this list will be less  
interested in me missing a Microsoft event, than in the idea of new  
Datacolor products... <G>

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:11 PM, "LAURIE SOLOMON" <laurie@...>  
wrote:

> I stand corrected.
>
>
>
> From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of C D Tobie
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:58 PM
> To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Canon iPF 5100 Printer Puzzle  
> -- Driver Versus PS Plug-In
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2009, at 3:08 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>
> > >You say to assign "Generic RGB" to the targets... as far as I know,
> > that's a Mac term.
> >
> >
> >
> > That is not a Mac term. I think that what is being referred to is
> > the monitor profile labeled as “RGB” or “RGB monitor” as  
> opposed to
> > Adobe RGB, sRGB, or some other form of RGB color space.
> >
> Actually, it is a Mac specific term: its an exact profile name for one
> of the identity profiles provided in recent Mac OS versions. The
> concept, in my post, is to assign it, so that a null transform will
> occur, in cases where (inappropriately) a transform is currently
> occuring, and causing problems printing targets, which must be printed
> without conversion.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@datacolor.com
>
>
>
>
>

Since no one seems to have picked up on this... On what day may we  
expect to hear about this new product? Which of Datacolor's brands  
will be making the announcement?

Thanks for the tease...
Sat Tara

On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Cdtobie wrote:

>
> I wouldn't worry about "corrected"; but informed about "the other  
> side" perhaps...
>
> In case you didn't know, Laurie, I won't be seeing you in Seattle  
> next week, as duty calls, and I will be at PMA in Las Vegas,  
> announcing a new product instead. I suspect that others on this list  
> will be less interested in me missing a Microsoft event, than in the  
> idea of new Datacolor products... <G>
>
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com
> CDTobie@...

On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:

> Since no one seems to have picked up on this...

Sadly lacking in curiosity, aren't they? <G> We'll have to assume its  
a preoccupation with the world economy...

> On what day may we expect to hear about this new product?

Tuesday is the opening day of PMA, so it will be open season then.

> Which of Datacolor's brands will be making the announcement?

The one you still think of as ColorVision... the Digital Imaging side  
of things; thats the division that would be at a photo show like PMA.  
I wouldn't bore you with Industrial announcements like the deal to use  
Datacolor products for quality control on the Fiat CinqueCento! <G>

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

David,
Thanks,

Would you mind making it easy for us and post a copy of the press  
release here on Tuesday?

Again, thanks.
Sat Tara

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:53 AM, C D Tobie wrote:

>
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:
>
> > Since no one seems to have picked up on this...
>
> Sadly lacking in curiosity, aren't they? <G> We'll have to assume its
> a preoccupation with the world economy...
>
> > On what day may we expect to hear about this new product?
>
> Tuesday is the opening day of PMA, so it will be open season then.
>
> > Which of Datacolor's brands will be making the announcement?
>
> The one you still think of as ColorVision... the Digital Imaging side
> of things; thats the division that would be at a photo show like PMA.
> I wouldn't bore you with Industrial announcements like the deal to use
> Datacolor products for quality control on the Fiat CinqueCento! <G>
>
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
>
>
> <image003.gif>
>
>
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>
>

On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:

> Would you mind making it easy for us and post a copy of the press  
> release here on Tuesday?

I will be in the middle of mayheim on Tuesday, but I will try!

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Spydercube:
http://www.datacolor.com/company/news/news-detail/? 
tx_ttnews[tt_news]=125&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=0788464a68

So, I guess this is it...
stsk

On Feb 27, 2009, at 9:26 AM, C D Tobie wrote:

>
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:
>
> > Would you mind making it easy for us and post a copy of the press
> > release here on Tuesday?
>
> I will be in the middle of mayheim on Tuesday, but I will try!
>
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
>
>
> 
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On Mar 3, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:

>
> Spydercube:
> http://www.datacolor.com/company/news/news-detail/? 
> tx_ttnews[tt_news]=125&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=0788464a68
>
> So, I guess this is it...
> stsk
>
>

This link is even better:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-cb-spydercube.php


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

It figures, since I got a couple of Whibal cards last week...
stsk

On Mar 3, 2009, at 6:08 AM, David Miller wrote:

>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Sat Tara Khalsa wrote:
>
> >
> > Spydercube:
> > http://www.datacolor.com/company/news/news-detail/?
> > tx_ttnews[tt_news]=125&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=0788464a68
> >
> > So, I guess this is it...
> > stsk
> >
> >
>
> This link is even better:
>
> http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-cb-spydercube.php
>
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
>