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Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by purtypitcher

I've just received my Spyder3 Print SR for use with a Canon iPF8100. Couple of questions:

1. In the Color Matching tab of the printer driver my choices are Color Sync and Vendor Matching. I don't see anything like No Color Adjustment (which is a choice with my Epson 9600 driver). Is Vendor Matching the correct choice to give me the same thing as No Color Adjustment?

2. On the iPF8100, I normally print with the Canon-supplied Photoshop plugin, one of the reasons is that it allows 16 bit printing from 16 bit PS files. But it seems the only way I can build profiles with the SR 4.1 software is by using the regular Canon driver. Yet there are several references in the user guide on printing the targets from within Photoshop. How do I get the targets into Photoshop so that I may print with the Canon plugin?

Thanks,
Don

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by David Miller

On May 5, 2010, at 12:32 PM, purtypitcher wrote:

> I've just received my Spyder3 Print SR for use with a Canon iPF8100.  
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. In the Color Matching tab of the printer driver my choices are  
> Color Sync and Vendor Matching. I don't see anything like No Color  
> Adjustment (which is a choice with my Epson 9600 driver). Is Vendor  
> Matching the correct choice to give me the same thing as No Color  
> Adjustment?
>
>

If you're running either Leopard or Snow Leopard, (which I assume you  
are),
then Vendor Matching won't work as it should - there's an issue with  
the Canon
drivers that prevents their "off" control from show up, as it should,  
in their
own section.

Instead: you need to take a workaround. Follow these steps, and you'll  
get
a properly printed target that's not color managed:

- Choose ColorSync, instead of Vendor Matching

- Beneath that, you'll see controls to let you choose from the entire  
set of
profiles on your system. Use them to select "Generic RGB" as the  
profile. Once
you've done that, it will appear underneath ColorSync

- Choose the paper type, output quality/resolution etc in the Canon  
section
of the driver, but you don't need to make any other changes related to  
color.
Just leave all of the other controls alone.

When you later print from Photoshop: in the OSX Print dialog, you'll see
that ColorSync ends up being selected automatically (and disabled; there
won't be anything else you can do in the Color Matching section of the
dialog). That's fine, the "right thing" will be happening and you don't
need to worry about this. Just make sure that the Canon section of the
driver is set up with the same paper type, quality/res etc that you'd
used when you printed the target.
> 2. On the iPF8100, I normally print with the Canon-supplied  
> Photoshop plugin, one of the reasons is that it allows 16 bit  
> printing from 16 bit PS files. But it seems the only way I can build  
> profiles with the SR 4.1 software is by using the regular Canon  
> driver. Yet there are several references in the user guide on  
> printing the targets from within Photoshop. How do I get the targets  
> into Photoshop so that I may print with the Canon plugin?
>
>

You can open the .tif versions of the target images directly into
Photoshop, then print them through the Canon plugin in 16-bit mode.

The .tif files are stored in the Targets folder that's inside the
main Spyder3Print application folder. (To get there, go into
Applications:Datacolor)

To open the images: make sure Photoshop's Color Settings are set to
warn on missing profiles. (The .tif images are untagged). When you
open one, Photoshop will warn you about this; tell it not to color
manage the image while opening.

When you print the image, you'll have to make sure that that Canon
plugin is actually letting you turn off color management. How this
happens, or whether it will actually do the right thing, is completely
dependent on the behaviour of the Canon plugin and internals. If
it doesn't turn off color management properly, you'll end up with a
target print that has limited gamut.

What you might want to do is first: print the target from inside
Spyder3Print, using the standard Canon driver (as described at the
start of my reply) and then use this as a reference. It will show
you what a properly printed target should look like with the Canon
inks and driver settings.

Then print the same target in 16-bit mode through the Canon plugin.
Hopefully, what you should get will be very close to the other
target print, if not indistinguishable; that would be a good sign.
If you end up with a target print in 16-bit mode through the Canon
plugin that's noticeably lighter, "prettier", and more washed-out
looking, then that's not a good sign at all; it tells you that
a profile has been applied.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Don Ament

Thank you very much for the speedy and clear reply. Yes, running Leopard. I had already printed the targets to dry overnight using Vendor Matching, figuring Colorsync was wrong, so you have saved me a lot of headache. I also like your approach on attempting to print from the Canon PS plugin with no color management and will give that a go, and compare the results as you suggest.

Don

On May 5, 2010, at 1:01 PM, David Miller wrote:


On May 5, 2010, at 12:32 PM, purtypitcher wrote:

> I've just received my Spyder3 Print SR for use with a Canon iPF8100.
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. In the Color Matching tab of the printer driver my choices are
> Color Sync and Vendor Matching. I don't see anything like No Color
> Adjustment (which is a choice with my Epson 9600 driver). Is Vendor
> Matching the correct choice to give me the same thing as No Color
> Adjustment?
>
>

If you're running either Leopard or Snow Leopard, (which I assume you
are),
then Vendor Matching won't work as it should - there's an issue with
the Canon
drivers that prevents their "off" control from show up, as it should,
in their
own section.

Instead: you need to take a workaround. Follow these steps, and you'll
get
a properly printed target that's not color managed:

- Choose ColorSync, instead of Vendor Matching

- Beneath that, you'll see controls to let you choose from the entire
set of
profiles on your system. Use them to select "Generic RGB" as the
profile. Once
you've done that, it will appear underneath ColorSync

- Choose the paper type, output quality/resolution etc in the Canon
section
of the driver, but you don't need to make any other changes related to
color.
Just leave all of the other controls alone.

When you later print from Photoshop: in the OSX Print dialog, you'll see
that ColorSync ends up being selected automatically (and disabled; there
won't be anything else you can do in the Color Matching section of the
dialog). That's fine, the "right thing" will be happening and you don't
need to worry about this. Just make sure that the Canon section of the
driver is set up with the same paper type, quality/res etc that you'd
used when you printed the target.
> 2. On the iPF8100, I normally print with the Canon-supplied
> Photoshop plugin, one of the reasons is that it allows 16 bit
> printing from 16 bit PS files. But it seems the only way I can build
> profiles with the SR 4.1 software is by using the regular Canon
> driver. Yet there are several references in the user guide on
> printing the targets from within Photoshop. How do I get the targets
> into Photoshop so that I may print with the Canon plugin?
>
>

You can open the .tif versions of the target images directly into
Photoshop, then print them through the Canon plugin in 16-bit mode.

The .tif files are stored in the Targets folder that's inside the
main Spyder3Print application folder. (To get there, go into
Applications:Datacolor)

To open the images: make sure Photoshop's Color Settings are set to
warn on missing profiles. (The .tif images are untagged). When you
open one, Photoshop will warn you about this; tell it not to color
manage the image while opening.

When you print the image, you'll have to make sure that that Canon
plugin is actually letting you turn off color management. How this
happens, or whether it will actually do the right thing, is completely
dependent on the behaviour of the Canon plugin and internals. If
it doesn't turn off color management properly, you'll end up with a
target print that has limited gamut.

What you might want to do is first: print the target from inside
Spyder3Print, using the standard Canon driver (as described at the
start of my reply) and then use this as a reference. It will show
you what a properly printed target should look like with the Canon
inks and driver settings.

Then print the same target in 16-bit mode through the Canon plugin.
Hopefully, what you should get will be very close to the other
target print, if not indistinguishable; that would be a good sign.
If you end up with a target print in 16-bit mode through the Canon
plugin that's noticeably lighter, "prettier", and more washed-out
looking, then that's not a good sign at all; it tells you that
a profile has been applied.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor


Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Don Ament

Well, it's getting weird, this will be hard to follow I suspect:

I reprinted page 1 of the 225 EZ color target using the Colorsync/Generic RGB method and it is way off. Super saturated, dark, colors way off. My original page one, printed with Vendor Matching is actually pretty close to what the target looks like on my Spyder calibrated monitor.

So, I poked around the Canon driver. Under the Main tab, where media settings, print resolutions etc are located, there is a section called Color Mode. When I have the driver set to Colorsync/Generic RGB (under the Color Matching tab), there is a grayed out popup that says Color and a button that says Set. Clicking on Set gives me a pane to make color and contrast adjustments and also a pane called Matching.

Clicking on the Matching tab, shows the following popup tabs, all grayed out:

Input Profile settings: sRGB v3.0 (Canon)
Matching Method: Perceptual
Printer Profile Settings: Canon iPF8100 Fine Art Photo (Highest) V2

That paper profile setting must be coming form the media choice and (highest) resolution settings I am making in the Main tab.

So, it appears the printer driver is making its own settings when the Colorsync setting is selected, and I am definitely getting an unwanted profile being applied.

If I go back to the Color Matching tab and reselect Vendor Matching and then return to the Main tab, and look at the Color Mode section again, the previously grayed out popup tab that said Color now has a choice of Color, Monochrome (Photo), and No Color Correction.

I've got the latest v1.39 firmware and am wondering if maybe Canon fixed the missing No Color Adjustment and is this where it is now, and should I use it to print the target?

Sorry for the long winded post.

Don

On May 5, 2010, at 1:01 PM, David Miller wrote:


On May 5, 2010, at 12:32 PM, purtypitcher wrote:

> I've just received my Spyder3 Print SR for use with a Canon iPF8100.
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. In the Color Matching tab of the printer driver my choices are
> Color Sync and Vendor Matching. I don't see anything like No Color
> Adjustment (which is a choice with my Epson 9600 driver). Is Vendor
> Matching the correct choice to give me the same thing as No Color
> Adjustment?
>
>

If you're running either Leopard or Snow Leopard, (which I assume you
are),
then Vendor Matching won't work as it should - there's an issue with
the Canon
drivers that prevents their "off" control from show up, as it should,
in their
own section.

Instead: you need to take a workaround. Follow these steps, and you'll
get
a properly printed target that's not color managed:

- Choose ColorSync, instead of Vendor Matching

- Beneath that, you'll see controls to let you choose from the entire
set of
profiles on your system. Use them to select "Generic RGB" as the
profile. Once
you've done that, it will appear underneath ColorSync

- Choose the paper type, output quality/resolution etc in the Canon
section
of the driver, but you don't need to make any other changes related to
color.
Just leave all of the other controls alone.

When you later print from Photoshop: in the OSX Print dialog, you'll see
that ColorSync ends up being selected automatically (and disabled; there
won't be anything else you can do in the Color Matching section of the
dialog). That's fine, the "right thing" will be happening and you don't
need to worry about this. Just make sure that the Canon section of the
driver is set up with the same paper type, quality/res etc that you'd
used when you printed the target.
> 2. On the iPF8100, I normally print with the Canon-supplied
> Photoshop plugin, one of the reasons is that it allows 16 bit
> printing from 16 bit PS files. But it seems the only way I can build
> profiles with the SR 4.1 software is by using the regular Canon
> driver. Yet there are several references in the user guide on
> printing the targets from within Photoshop. How do I get the targets
> into Photoshop so that I may print with the Canon plugin?
>
>

You can open the .tif versions of the target images directly into
Photoshop, then print them through the Canon plugin in 16-bit mode.

The .tif files are stored in the Targets folder that's inside the
main Spyder3Print application folder. (To get there, go into
Applications:Datacolor)

To open the images: make sure Photoshop's Color Settings are set to
warn on missing profiles. (The .tif images are untagged). When you
open one, Photoshop will warn you about this; tell it not to color
manage the image while opening.

When you print the image, you'll have to make sure that that Canon
plugin is actually letting you turn off color management. How this
happens, or whether it will actually do the right thing, is completely
dependent on the behaviour of the Canon plugin and internals. If
it doesn't turn off color management properly, you'll end up with a
target print that has limited gamut.

What you might want to do is first: print the target from inside
Spyder3Print, using the standard Canon driver (as described at the
start of my reply) and then use this as a reference. It will show
you what a properly printed target should look like with the Canon
inks and driver settings.

Then print the same target in 16-bit mode through the Canon plugin.
Hopefully, what you should get will be very close to the other
target print, if not indistinguishable; that would be a good sign.
If you end up with a target print in 16-bit mode through the Canon
plugin that's noticeably lighter, "prettier", and more washed-out
looking, then that's not a good sign at all; it tells you that
a profile has been applied.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor


Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by David Miller

On May 5, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Don Ament wrote:

>
> Well, it's getting weird, this will be hard to follow I suspect:
>
> I reprinted page 1 of the 225 EZ color target using the Colorsync/ 
> Generic RGB method and it is way off. Super saturated, dark, colors  
> way off. My original page one, printed with Vendor Matching is  
> actually pretty close to what the target looks like on my Spyder  
> calibrated monitor.
>

Actually, what you've done is correct!

The target is SUPPOSED to be super saturated and dark. That's what  
"uncalibrated" looks
like, and that's what you want to get. This gives you the full  
printable "Gamut" of the paper
and ink in the target print. The profile then works within that to  
make adjustments when
you're actually printing.

Your original target print, printed through Vendor matching, is WRONG,  
because it's not
supposed to look like the target image on the calibrated screen (this  
is wrong, because
it not only confirms what I said before, but it's also telling you  
implicitly that
you've just made a calibrated target print, i.e. through a printer  
profile, because
it looks "nice", pretty, light, and... calibrated! Just like on your  
display. Which
is NOT what you want to be happening here).

> So, I poked around the Canon driver.

<SNIP>

No need to go through anything else you've noted here. Re-read the  
above. Your
dark, super saturated, colors way off target print IS the right one.

Measure that, build a profile from those measurements, and you'll have  
a correct
profile.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Don Ament

Does this mean my Media Setting Check prints are also wrong? I did  
them with the Vendor Matching setting.

Don
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> Actually, what you've done is correct!
>
> The target is SUPPOSED to be super saturated and dark. That's what
> "uncalibrated" looks
> like, and that's what you want to get. This gives you the full
> printable "Gamut" of the paper
> and ink in the target print. The profile then works within that to
> make adjustments when
> you're actually printing.
>
> Your original target print, printed through Vendor matching, is WRONG,
> because it's not
> supposed to look like the target image on the calibrated screen (this
> is wrong, because
> it not only confirms what I said before, but it's also telling you
> implicitly that
> you've just made a calibrated target print, i.e. through a printer
> profile, because
> it looks "nice", pretty, light, and... calibrated! Just like on your
> display. Which
> is NOT what you want to be happening here).
>
>

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Cdtobie

First, yes, if you can't turn off color conversions any other way, you  
may have to print at the Canon color setting. Second, for printing  
targets from Photoshop, open the appropriate target files from the  
Datacolor folder's Targets folder, in Photoshop.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 5, 2010, at 12:32 PM, "purtypitcher" <don@...> wrote:

> I've just received my Spyder3 Print SR for use with a Canon iPF8100.  
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. In the Color Matching tab of the printer driver my choices are  
> Color Sync and Vendor Matching. I don't see anything like No Color  
> Adjustment (which is a choice with my Epson 9600 driver). Is Vendor  
> Matching the correct choice to give me the same thing as No Color  
> Adjustment?
>
> 2. On the iPF8100, I normally print with the Canon-supplied  
> Photoshop plugin, one of the reasons is that it allows 16 bit  
> printing from 16 bit PS files. But it seems the only way I can build  
> profiles with the SR 4.1 software is by using the regular Canon  
> driver. Yet there are several references in the user guide on  
> printing the targets from within Photoshop. How do I get the targets  
> into Photoshop so that I may print with the Canon plugin?
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Cdtobie

>>Use them to select "Generic RGB" as the
profile.

GenericRGB would be correct for Leopard; sRGB is correct for Snow  
Leooard, they changed it between versions.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 5, 2010, at 1:01 PM, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:

> Use them to select "Generic RGB" as the
> profile.

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Cdtobie

>>I reprinted page 1 of the 225 EZ color target using the Colorsync/ 
Generic RGB method and it is way off. Super saturated, dark, colors  
way off. My original page one, printed with Vendor Matching is  
actually pretty close to what the target looks like on my Spyder  
calibrated monitor.

Dark and way off is right, it proves that a profile is not being  
applied to the data. Sounds like the right setting; build a profile  
from it and try it out from SpyderProof to make sure.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 5, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Don Ament <don@...> wrote:

> I reprinted page 1 of the 225 EZ color target using the Colorsync/ 
> Generic RGB method and it is way off. Super saturated, dark, colors  
> way off. My original page one, printed with Vendor Matching is  
> actually pretty close to what the target looks like on my Spyder  
> calibrated monitor.

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by David Miller

On May 5, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Don Ament wrote:

> Does this mean my Media Setting Check prints are also wrong? I did
> them with the Vendor Matching setting.
>
>

Yes, they're wrong. The idea for using Media Setting Check is
to print it uncalibrated, just like the target print, and with
Vendor Matching turned on, it's going to be just as "wrong" (calibrated)
as the target you'd printed that way.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by Don Ament

As a test, I went ahead and tried printing a target using Vendor Matching, and then selecting No Color Correction that I found in the Color Mode popup menu on the Main tab of the Canon driver. It was not obvious to find it.

To my eyes, it is an exact match of the target printed using the Colorsync/Generic RGB method.

Since C.D. Tobie mentioned that Snow Leopard requires selecting sRGB instead of Generic RGB (for Leopard), maybe this No Color Correction setting keeps things less confusing? Assuming it is in fact doing the right thing? I do wonder if it is something that Canon added/fixed with the 1.39 firmware.

I'm going to try building profiles from both methods and see how it works out, but the prints do look identical to my eyes.

Don

On May 5, 2010, at 3:24 PM, David Miller wrote:


On May 5, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Don Ament wrote:

> Does this mean my Media Setting Check prints are also wrong? I did
> them with the Vendor Matching setting.
>
>

Yes, they're wrong. The idea for using Media Setting Check is
to print it uncalibrated, just like the target print, and with
Vendor Matching turned on, it's going to be just as "wrong" (calibrated)
as the target you'd printed that way.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor


Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by David Miller

On May 5, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Don Ament wrote:

>
> As a test, I went ahead and tried printing a target using Vendor  
> Matching, and then selecting No Color Correction that I found in the  
> Color Mode popup menu on the Main tab of the Canon driver. It was  
> not obvious to find it.
>

If that particular Canon driver DOES show a "No Color Correction"  
choice,
then yes, you can use that in combination with Vendor Matching and you
should get the same target print (dark, saturated, etc) as from using
my workaround. Either of those methods will work, and you don't need to
reprint your target again, either, what you've got now is fine.


> To my eyes, it is an exact match of the target printed using the  
> Colorsync/Generic RGB method.
>
> Since C.D. Tobie mentioned that Snow Leopard requires selecting sRGB  
> instead of Generic RGB (for Leopard), maybe this No Color Correction  
> setting keeps things less confusing? Assuming it is in fact doing  
> the right thing? I do wonder if it is something that Canon added/ 
> fixed with the 1.39 firmware.
>

Yes, it will be doing the right thing. The problem is that in most (I  
had thought "all", but perhaps
some drivers have actually been updated recently) Canon drivers, the  
"No Color Correction" setting
wasn't showing up and so users weren't able to choose it.

> I'm going to try building profiles from both methods and see how it  
> works out, but the prints do look identical to my eyes.
>


You can save yourself some time on this. Both targets are going to be  
the same.
Just pick either one, measure, and build from it.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [datacolor_group] Printing SR targets via Canon Photoshop plugin

2010-05-05 by C D Tobie

>>I'm going to try building profiles from both methods and see how it works out, but the prints do look identical to my eyes.

If they are identical to a discerning eye, then they will produce identical profiles to that same eye...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging and Home Theater
Datacolor inc. 
cdtobie@...
www.datacolor.com

On May 5, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Don Ament <don@...> wrote:

> I'm going to try building profiles from both methods and see how it works out, but the prints do look identical to my eyes.

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.