Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Is there a way to measure the brightness of a monitor in candelas, using the Spyder3Pro ? I recently had a professional printer profile made by a well recognized maker of such profiles. Prints using that profile are too dark. In email discussions with the profiler, he noted that the most likely reason is that my monitor is too bright. He said he keeps brightness of his monitors at ~ 20 cdm2 (candelas/square meter). He suggested that I re-check the brightness of my monitor, which of course I will do. But I don't know how to relay information about candelas to him.

FWIW - The monitor calibration is checked with Spyder3Pro every month, and it was re-checked just before the targets for the profile were printed. The appearance of images on my monitor, dating back to images shot and processed in the year 2000, is appropriate and has not changed noticeably.

Bill Hansen

Hi,


Spyder3Pro should actually let you choose the target brightness before 
calibrating. Don't remember what the default is, but I tend to use 
180cd/m2. 20 is bullshit, this is probably a typo, probably it was meant 
to be 200cd/m2, which should also be ok, but make sure the room you sit 
in is not too bright itself. The best is to have a moderately low-light 
room for photo editing.


Tanel

>><billhansen2008@...>: He said he keeps brightness of his monitors at ~ 20 cdm2 (candelas/square meter). 

Are you SURE he said "20"??? That's very, very, very DARK! 

Most people shoot for about 120cd/m2 (One Hundred Twenty cd/m2 --not Twenty). There is a section during the calibration/recalibration process that allows you to tweak your monitor settings--usually via the monitor's On Screen Display via the "Brightness" settings--and part of that process does display the cd/m2 for the particular settings. 

Terrie

>><dm2363@...>  It would have been 120 cd/m2 ("one hundred twenty"), not 20 ("twenty"). :-) 

I would sure hope so! I figured if I spelled it out, there would be less of a chance of misunderstanding when reading quickly...'-}}

Terrie

I think I wrote in an earlier post that the choice of brightness in my previous version of Spyder3Pro was dependent on "eyeballing" - choosing between a series of squares of various brightness. I like the availability of an actual numerical figure, because it allows me to communicate more accurately with others, like the person who made my custom printer profile and the people on this Datacolor list.

I agree that when calibrating a monitor, ambient light should be relatively dim. That's the way I've always calibrated my monitors for the past 10-12 years or so, back before DataColor was DataColor, and I've gotten consistently good results until now.

For the profile I received, monitor brightness of 200 cd/m^2 is way too bright. I've been away for several days, but if I get time later today I'll try to re-calibrate to a brightness of 60 or 80 ds/m^2. That level is unrealistically dim, in my opinion. Even if it allows a print to match monitor appearance, it will make all previous images appear way too dark on the monitor. That would mean, to me, that either my printer has slipped way out of spec, or that the custom profile which was made is somehow faulty. (The most likely explanation for the latter situation would be that I made some error in printing the targets for the profile, but since the target was printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility as the profile maker requested, it's very hard to see how I could have made a mistake. In addition, colors of prints are correct as far as one can tell from these dark prints.)

It's a puzzle. I haven't made a custom profile using SpyderPRINT since this problem came up. I will probably make one today or tomorrow, and ask David Miller to see if I've printed the targets correctly.

Bill Hansen

Using Spyder 4.0.2, calibrating the monitor to 121 cd/m^2 (and yes, I got the number right this time), my prints from an Epson 1430 printer are still too dark, compared to the monitor. This is consistent across three printer profiles - the canned Epson profile for Premium Luster, my own profile made with a SpyderPRINT package, and a custom profile I had made by Michael Gordon of "GreatPrinterProfiles".

Color management is correct. The targets for the custom printer profile was printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility, which turns off all color management. The other prints were made with the correct paper selected and with ICM checked as "OFF" in printer properties.

Is it possible that my Spyder calibrating tool is out of spec? Is there any way I can check this myself?

Bill Hansen

Bill,
This is an off the wall conjecture based on the assumption that you are using the Epson Clara dye based inks and not a pigmented ink in your printer.  Could it be possible that the inks are old and have begun to deteriorate a little, that the some of print head nozzles might be dirty or clogged despite maintenance cleanings, or that either in the image editing software or the printer driver, the color intent setting has accidentally changed or is inappropriate.  While I suppose that the Spyder could be out of spec, it seems to me that the problem lies more in the printing and the printer, its inking levels, and maybe even spray patterns.  However, as I said, this is just a conjecture on my part.  I do know that as dye based inks get older, they get darker.

Good luck in tracking down the cause.  I know it can be frustrating – to say the least.

From: mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: January 25, 2015 7:36 AM
To: datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [datacolor_group] Re: candelas?

  

Using Spyder 4.0.2, calibrating the monitor to 121 cd/m^2 (and yes, I got the number right this time), my prints from an Epson 1430 printer are still too dark, compared to the monitor. This is consistent across three printer profiles - the canned Epson profile for Premium Luster, my own profile made with a SpyderPRINT package, and a custom profile I had made by Michael Gordon of "GreatPrinterProfiles". 



Color management is correct. The targets for the custom printer profile was printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility, which turns off all color management. The other prints were made with the correct paper selected and with ICM checked as "OFF" in printer properties.



Is it possible that my Spyder calibrating tool is out of spec? Is there any way I can check this myself?



Bill Hansen

Hi:  for years i have been lucky no problems....   Then one day i cheated and did not follow old established rules.   I downloaded a printer update from epson europe.    Suddenly all images were dark ...  Tried everything.   Then back to reality....reviewed what changes i made...?....

 I usually always delete all printer software before installing an update.  I had missed that for the first time.  Why.   Tried to cheat very picky and time consuming task...

Then i found on us epson download site software tailored to delete all.  I used it

Then downloaded updated driver.    All is now well again

Rule 1.      for at least all epson pro printers clean up and delete epson software before you update drivers.(this includes the root library)
Rule 2.   Never accept apple update to your printer environment.   Get it all yourself.

Cheers. Elo

> On 25 Jan 2015, at 20:37, 'Laurie Solomon' LAURIE1942@... [datacolor_group] <datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Bill,
> This is an off the wall conjecture based on the assumption that you are using the Epson Clara dye based inks and not a pigmented ink in your printer.  Could it be possible that the inks are old and have begun to deteriorate a little, that the some of print head nozzles might be dirty or clogged despite maintenance cleanings, or that either in the image editing software or the printer driver, the color intent setting has accidentally changed or is inappropriate.  While I suppose that the Spyder could be out of spec, it seems to me that the problem lies more in the printing and the printer, its inking levels, and maybe even spray patterns.  However, as I said, this is just a conjecture on my part.  I do know that as dye based inks get older, they get darker.
> 
> Good luck in tracking down the cause.  I know it can be frustrating – to say the least.
>  
> From: mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: January 25, 2015 7:36 AM
> To: datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [datacolor_group] Re: candelas?
>  
>  
> Using Spyder 4.0.2, calibrating the monitor to 121 cd/m^2 (and yes, I got the number right this time), my prints from an Epson 1430 printer are still too dark, compared to the monitor. This is consistent across three printer profiles - the canned Epson profile for Premium Luster, my own profile made with a SpyderPRINT package, and a custom profile I had made by Michael Gordon of "GreatPrinterProfiles".
> 
>  
> 
> Color management is correct. The targets for the custom printer profile was printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility, which turns off all color management. The other prints were made with the correct paper selected and with ICM checked as "OFF" in printer properties.
> 
>  
> 
> Is it possible that my Spyder calibrating tool is out of spec? Is there any way I can check this myself?
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Hansen
> 
>

Eizo recommend using 80 cd on their monitors, and using that value I get a 
reasonable match in lightness/darkness to prints from my R3000 or 3800. Your 
value of 120 would make my prints darker than the monitor.

But if you have this problem and are using Lightroom for printing, you can 
dial in a brightness value for the prints. It's trial and error to find the 
value that gets you a match, but once you've done that, you can use that 
value for all your LR printing.

Bob Frost


Using Spyder 4.0.2, calibrating the monitor to 121 cd/m^2 (and yes, I got 
the number right this time), my prints from an Epson 1430 printer are still 
too dark, compared to the monitor. This is consistent across three printer 
profiles - the canned Epson profile for Premium Luster, my own profile made 
with a SpyderPRINT package, and a custom profile I had made by Michael 
Gordon of "GreatPrinterProfiles".

Color management is correct. The targets for the custom printer profile was 
printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility, which turns off all color 
management. The other prints were made with the correct paper selected and 
with ICM checked as "OFF" in printer properties.

Is it possible that my Spyder calibrating tool is out of spec? Is there any 
way I can check this myself?

Bill Hansen

Forgot to say spyder calibrated screen was always accurate.  Only prints using spyder print profiles were darker

Elo

> On 25 Jan 2015, at 20:42, elo elo@... [datacolor_group] <datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi:  for years i have been lucky no problems....   Then one day i cheated and did not follow old established rules.   I downloaded a printer update from epson europe.    Suddenly all images were dark ...  Tried everything.   Then back to reality....reviewed what changes i made...?....
> 
>  I usually always delete all printer software before installing an update.  I had missed that for the first time.  Why.   Tried to cheat very picky and time consuming task...
> 
> Then i found on us epson download site software tailored to delete all.  I used it
> 
> Then downloaded updated driver.    All is now well again
> 
> Rule 1.      for at least all epson pro printers clean up and delete epson software before you update drivers.(this includes the root library)
> Rule 2.   Never accept apple update to your printer environment.   Get it all yourself.
> 
> Cheers. Elo
> 
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2015, at 20:37, 'Laurie Solomon' LAURIE1942@... [datacolor_group] <datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Bill,
>> This is an off the wall conjecture based on the assumption that you are using the Epson Clara dye based inks and not a pigmented ink in your printer.  Could it be possible that the inks are old and have begun to deteriorate a little, that the some of print head nozzles might be dirty or clogged despite maintenance cleanings, or that either in the image editing software or the printer driver, the color intent setting has accidentally changed or is inappropriate.  While I suppose that the Spyder could be out of spec, it seems to me that the problem lies more in the printing and the printer, its inking levels, and maybe even spray patterns.  However, as I said, this is just a conjecture on my part.  I do know that as dye based inks get older, they get darker.
>> 
>> Good luck in tracking down the cause.  I know it can be frustrating – to say the least.
>>  
>> From: mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: January 25, 2015 7:36 AM
>> To: datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [datacolor_group] Re: candelas?
>>  
>>  
>> Using Spyder 4.0.2, calibrating the monitor to 121 cd/m^2 (and yes, I got the number right this time), my prints from an Epson 1430 printer are still too dark, compared to the monitor. This is consistent across three printer profiles - the canned Epson profile for Premium Luster, my own profile made with a SpyderPRINT package, and a custom profile I had made by Michael Gordon of "GreatPrinterProfiles".
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Color management is correct. The targets for the custom printer profile was printed with Adobe Custom Printer Utility, which turns off all color management. The other prints were made with the correct paper selected and with ICM checked as "OFF" in printer properties.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Is it possible that my Spyder calibrating tool is out of spec? Is there any way I can check this myself?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Bill Hansen
> 
>

I tried to calibrate to 80 cd/m^2 this morning and encountered a "new" problem - the program no longer allows me to select candelas! I know - I'm probably missing something in Settings or Preferences, but I can't find it.

The first couple of times I used the upgrade to Spyder3 Pro 4.0.2, there was the option to set the colorimeter on its ambient light stand, and measure ambient light. I always calibrate, edit images, and print in fairly dim room light. The program indicated low ambient and recommended 120 cd/m^2 brightness of the monitor. I set the monitor at 121 cd/m^2 - the closest I could get it. This morning, that option to set candelas is gone. All that remains is the instruction to set the monitor to factory settings, and then choose a monitor brightness which "is comfortable". The default monitor brightness is 90%, which of course is way higher than recommended.

What am I missing in the Spyder3 Pro program? I know that previous versions did not allow candelas to be measured, but after the upgrade, the option was available originally. Now it's gone - or at least, I can't find it.

Bill Hansen

The Ticket repeated what we all know about use of the Spyder3 program, but it suggested one thing I hadn't tried - setting the monitor's brightness slider all the way to zero. That allowed the Spyder3 Elite program to measure a brightness of 70 cd/m^2. At that brightness, monitor appearance almost exactly matches prints made with a custom printer profile. The value of 70 cd/m^2 is much lower than any I've read about, but it works. Thanks to David Miller for suggesting that I write a support ticket, and to DataColor for a prompt reply and advice which seems to have solved the monitor/printer problem, for the present.

Bill Hansen