i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com and find the *On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program <http://spencerserolls.com/On_off-gradual_pedalingTK_soft-sust_new.zip>**(New*) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead. On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote: > Geoff, what is the exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not > find it... > > Sam > www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com> > (212) 684-3304 > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@... > <mailto:gward1211@...>> wrote: > >> Just following up on Spencer\u2019s comments about his program to apply up >> and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers. The program works best >> with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from >> my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music >> can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like >> Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it. >> >> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the >> latest \u2013 the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and >> soft pedals). >> >> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings >> which give good results for my MKIV. If anyone wants them, please >> let me know. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Geoff Ward >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Spencer Chase >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM >> *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >> >> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how >> much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the >> most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download >> page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some >> "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding >> of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably >> answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both >> soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, >> not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. >> it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some >> strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you >> figure out something better. >> >> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html >> >> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote: >> >>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested... >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com> >>> >>> (212) 684-3304 >>> >>> >>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase >>> <lists@... <mailto:lists@...>> wrote: >>> >>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive >>>> pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or >>>> not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe >>>> we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces >>>> pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip >>>> but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today >>>> (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. >>>> >>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will >>>> not bother unless people want it. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote: >>>> >>>>> � >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to >>>>>> respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the >>>>>> Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the >>>>>> beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files. >>>>>> >>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an >>>>> acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is >>>>> by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer), >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier. >>>>> >>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files >>>>> that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During >>>>> playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then >>>>> back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than >>>>> incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your >>>>> Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right? >>>>> >>>>> Yes! This makes sense. � I wonder if there is a simple way to >>>>> control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? >>>>> Probably some utility somewhere... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@... <mailto:skanter123@...>> >>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>>>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> >>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>>>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> >>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >>>>> >>>>> � >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sam� >>>>> >>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com> >>>>> >>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@... >>>>> <mailto:billbrando@...>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a >>>>> few things, though. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> � >>>>> >>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a >>>>> difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be >>>>> playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play >>>>> it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm >>>>> that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very >>>>> high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if >>>>> the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer. >>>>> >>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no >>>>> affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) >>>>> affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the >>>>> playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the >>>>> lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level >>>>> (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers >>>>> much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much >>>>> softer.) >>>>> >>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from >>>>> 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic >>>>> showing this curve? I assume the � volume control affects velocity >>>>> only, and not the soft pedal? >>>>> >>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file >>>>> playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes >>>>> properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some >>>>> of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn >>>>> to use it). � Is there a way to control the continuous movement of >>>>> the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for your help... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@... <mailto:skanter123@...>> >>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>>>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> >>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >>>>> >>>>> � >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, George. >>>>> >>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's >>>>> start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused >>>>> about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric >>>>> instrument like the DKV.� >>>>> >>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a >>>>> sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing >>>>> velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just >>>>> implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume >>>>> control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 >>>>> MPX100II. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sam� >>>>> >>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com> >>>>> >>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom >>>>> <bill.brandom03@... <mailto:bill.brandom03@...>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> � >>>>>> >>>>>> George, >>>>>> >>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst >>>>>> <PianoBench@... <mailto:PianoBench@...>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> � >>>>>> >>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that >>>>>> affect playback volume of the Disklavier: >>>>>> >>>>>> *(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel* >>>>>> >>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale >>>>>> of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is >>>>>> the only setting that properly plays back a file that was >>>>>> recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on >>>>>> the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with >>>>>> -10 as the lowest setting. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume >>>>>> meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full >>>>>> volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a >>>>>> lower setting scales down the volume. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume >>>>>> to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). >>>>>> >>>>>> *(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity* >>>>>> >>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity >>>>>> represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of >>>>>> instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a >>>>>> note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer >>>>>> sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 >>>>>> in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, >>>>>> the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on >>>>>> values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the >>>>>> dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the >>>>>> 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather >>>>>> unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. >>>>>> Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely >>>>>> played and/or which may have been accidentally played. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a >>>>>> particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a >>>>>> MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a >>>>>> Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. >>>>>> If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the >>>>>> soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range >>>>>> with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is >>>>>> that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the >>>>>> velocity profile of the Disklavier. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the >>>>>> range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it >>>>>> may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the >>>>>> instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale >>>>>> down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's >>>>>> normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity >>>>>> profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, >>>>>> but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on >>>>>> the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have >>>>>> similar velocity profiles. >>>>>> >>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher >>>>>> than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where >>>>>> the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's >>>>>> 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as >>>>>> MIDI controller data. � >>>>>> >>>>>> *(3) MIDI Controller 7* >>>>>> >>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 >>>>>> to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific >>>>>> purposes. For example: >>>>>> >>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal >>>>>> >>>>>> Controller 66 = /sostenuto/ pedal >>>>>> >>>>>> Controller 67 = /una corda/ pedal >>>>>> >>>>>> Many controllers are undefined. >>>>>> >>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 >>>>>> (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression). >>>>>> >>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 >>>>>> value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative >>>>>> volume for the entire track.� Imagine, for example, that you are >>>>>> creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You >>>>>> might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each >>>>>> track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that >>>>>> the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 >>>>>> value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 >>>>>> value a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like >>>>>> sliders on a channel mixer. >>>>>> >>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell >>>>>> shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber >>>>>> that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. >>>>>> When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these >>>>>> louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to >>>>>> sound softer or allowing them to sound louder.� >>>>>> >>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic >>>>>> piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved >>>>>> farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or >>>>>> causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. >>>>>> Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher >>>>>> or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on >>>>>> velocities in order to simulate the same effect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on >>>>>> the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano >>>>>> tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or >>>>>> tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try >>>>>> to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often >>>>>> in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can >>>>>> result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on >>>>>> a Disklavier. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above,� it's best to stick with files that >>>>>> were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with >>>>>> instruments that have similar velocity profiles.� If you want to >>>>>> play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that >>>>>> controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the >>>>>> note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is >>>>>> generated by the Disklavier. >>>>>> >>>>>> *(4) MIDI Controller 11* >>>>>> >>>>>> MIDIcontroller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it >>>>>> functions identically to controller 7.� >>>>>> >>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set >>>>>> overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at >>>>>> the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in >>>>>> the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or >>>>>> to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and >>>>>> bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case >>>>>> of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only >>>>>> serves to confuse the controller 7 setting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages >>>>>> in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> PianoBench >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> � >>>>>> >>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for >>>>>> each MIDI file? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam >>>>>> >>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>>> >>>>>> /*(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom >>>>>> <bill.brandom03@... <mailto:bill.brandom03@...>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to >>>>>>> 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically >>>>>>> play too loud on a Disklavier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@... >>>>>>> <mailto:skanter123@...>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a >>>>>>> "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands >>>>>>> on www.disklavierworld.com <http://www.disklavierworld.com/>? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is >>>>>>> each MIDI file different volume? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance... >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase >>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >>>> Garberville,CA 95542 Postal service only. >>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >>>> Spencer@... <mailto:Spencer@...> >>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com >>>> (707) 984-8356 >>>> (425) 791-0309 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, Spencer Chase >> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >> Garberville,CA 95542 Postal service only. >> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >> Spencer@... <mailto:Spencer@...> >> http://www.spencerserolls.com >> (707) 984-8356 >> (425) 791-0309 > -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (707) 984-8356 (425) 791-0309
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Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
2014-02-20 by Spencer Chase