Disklavier

> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
> 
> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
>

> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
> 
> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
>

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
> 
> Sam
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>> 
>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance...

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> George,
> 
> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Good afternoon, everyone.
> 
> 
> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
> 
> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
> 
> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
> 
> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
> 
> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
> 
> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
> 
> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Disklavier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
> 
> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
> 
> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
> 
> (3) MIDI Controller 7
> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
> 
> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
> 
> Many controllers are undefined.
> 
> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
> 
> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
> 
> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
> 
> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
> 
> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
> 
> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
> 
> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
> 
> (4) MIDI Controller 11
> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
> 
> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
> 
> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
> 
> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>> 
>> Sam
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>> 
>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance...
> 
>

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Horatio,
> 
> You have two types of audio OUTPUTS on the Mark IV- OUTPUT R&L and OMNI OUT R&L.
> 
> OUTPUT R&L jacks are normally connected to the powered speakers under the soundboard of the piano. These outputs only supply background audio (TG or regular audio). 
> 
> The OMNI OUT jacks can be used for connecting sound systems, external powered speakers, etc. 
> 
> There are 4 settings that can be made with OMNI OUTs:
> 
> Output - This provides the same audio output that your OUTPUT jacks supply
> 
> Output+PianoTG - This supplies all audio output PLUS a digital piano sound that plays the Disklavier piano track.
> 
> PianoTG - Outputs ONLY the digital piano sound playing the Disklavier piano track. 
> 
> OFF - Nothing comes out the OMNI OUTs.
> 
> To change your OMNI OUT settings, tap on SETUP, then AUDIO I/O, then tap on the OMNI OUT line. Now you can change the setting using the 6:00 or 12:00 position of the outer ring on the PRC-100. 
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...> wrote:
>>  
>> That’s a tremendous amount of solid information and belongs in a FAQ somewhere.
>> 
>> 
>> While on the topic of volume, I have a different question…
>> 
>> I have my Mark IV audio-out connected to my house audio system. It’s great for playing music all around the house, and it’s especially enchanting to sit in a room and listen to all the musical accompaniment while the piano plays its part. The one minor issue with this set-up is that the tone generator plays a digital version of the piano part along with the rest of the audio. Given the live piano is playing the part, I don’t need to hear the digitized version of it… yet i can’t find a way to turn it off. If I mess with the track in any way, the piano won’t perform it. Lower the volume, fiddle the MIDI, whatever. It’s either both (live and digitized) or nothing. 
>> 
>> I’m thinking there must be a way to do it, and, if so, I must’ve come close with all the fiddling I’ve tried… but I’ve yet to find a solution.
>> 
>> Any suggestions appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> …..HK
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> George,
>>> 
>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>> 
>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>> 
>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>> 
>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>> 
>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Disklavier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>> 
>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>> 
>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>> 
>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>> 
>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>> 
>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>> 
>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>> 
>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>> 
>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>> 
>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>> 
>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>> 
>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>> 
>>>> Sam
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks in advance...

-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume


 
  
    
                  




Thanks, George.


Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 


I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.






Sam 
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304










On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      
                  

George,


Great Disklavier volume explanation!!


Bill


On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:


      
                  
Good afternoon, everyone.


Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:


(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.


The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.


Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). 


(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.


In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.


Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.


Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.


Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.


NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  


(3) MIDI Controller 7
The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:


Controller 64 = sustain pedal
Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
Controller 67 = una corda pedal


Many controllers are undefined.


The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).


Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.


In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.


In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from  the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 


If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.


Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the  volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.


Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.


(4) MIDI Controller 11
MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 


Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to  make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.


There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.


Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.


Regards,
PianoBench


On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:


 
     


So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?

Sam
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304


*(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)


On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      


Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.


Bill


On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:


      
Hi everyone,

I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?

I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?

Thanks in advance...

> 
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> Thanks, George.
> 
> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
> 
> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
>>  
>> George,
>> 
>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>> 
>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>> 
>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>> 
>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>> 
>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>> 
>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>> 
>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>> 
>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>> 
>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>> 
>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>> 
>> Many controllers are undefined.
>> 
>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>> 
>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>> 
>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>> 
>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>> 
>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>> 
>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>> 
>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>> 
>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> PianoBench
>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>> 
>>> Sam
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>> 
>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> Thanks, George.
> 
> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
> 
> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>  
>> George,
>> 
>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>> 
>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>> 
>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>> 
>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>> 
>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>> 
>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>> 
>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>> 
>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>> 
>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>> 
>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>> 
>> Many controllers are undefined.
>> 
>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>> 
>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>> 
>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>> 
>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>> 
>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>> 
>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>> 
>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>> 
>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>> 
>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> PianoBench
>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>> 
>>> Sam
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>> 
>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume


 
  
    
                  



Sam 
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304










On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>



Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.


      
                  




You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.



I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?






The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)





On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?


Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the  pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?


Thanks in advance for your help...










Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume


 
 
  
    
                  




Thanks, George.


Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 


I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.






Sam 
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304










On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      
                  

George,


Great Disklavier volume explanation!!


Bill


On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:


      
                  
Good afternoon, everyone.


Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:


(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.


The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.


Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). 


(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.


In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.


Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.


Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.


Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.


NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  


(3) MIDI Controller 7
The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:


Controller 64 = sustain pedal
Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
Controller 67 = una corda pedal


Many controllers are undefined.


The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).


Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.


In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.


In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from  the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 


If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.


Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the  volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.


Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.


(4) MIDI Controller 11
MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 


Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to  make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.


There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.


Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.


Regards,
PianoBench


On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:


 
     


So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?

Sam
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304


*(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)


On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      


Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.


Bill


On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:


      
Hi everyone,

I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?

I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?

Thanks in advance...

-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:57 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume


 
  
    
                  











The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)






Bill, isn't this exactly what the soft pedal does? So does the built in volume control on my MPX100II control BOTH hammer velocity AND soft pedal (soft pedal at -7)?











-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume


 
 
  
    
                  




Thanks, George.


Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 


I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.






Sam 
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304










On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      
                  

George,


Great Disklavier volume explanation!!


Bill


On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:


      
                  
Good afternoon, everyone.


Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:


(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.


The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.


Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). 


(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.


In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.


Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.


Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.


Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.


NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  


(3) MIDI Controller 7
The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:


Controller 64 = sustain pedal
Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
Controller 67 = una corda pedal


Many controllers are undefined.


The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).


Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.


In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.


In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from  the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 


If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.


Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the  volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.


Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.


(4) MIDI Controller 11
MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 


Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to  make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.


There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.


Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.


Regards,
PianoBench


On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:


 
     


So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?

Sam
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304


*(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)


On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



      


Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.


Bill


On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:


      
Hi everyone,

I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?

I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?

Thanks in advance...

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 2:19 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
> Sam,
> 
> 
> It is a bit confusing. Controller 67 should cause the hammers on your piano to move half-way to the strings (the solenoid reproducing what happens when you press the soft pedal down with your foot). When the hammer rest rail moves toward the strings when lowering the volume level from -7 ~ -10, the hammers move much, much closer to the strings (for the purpose of making the piano play as soft as possible.)
> 
> So playback velocities are being lowered when you use the MPX volume control along with the hammers being so close to the strings at rest, that they play extremely softly.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> 
>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
> Bill, isn't this exactly what the soft pedal does? So does the built in volume control on my MPX100II control BOTH hammer velocity AND soft pedal (soft pedal at -7)?
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> Thanks, George.
>> 
>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>> 
>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> George,
>>> 
>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>> 
>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>> 
>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>> 
>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>> 
>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>> 
>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>> 
>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>> 
>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>> 
>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>> 
>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>> 
>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>> 
>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>> 
>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>> 
>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>> 
>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>> 
>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>> 
>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>> 
>>>> Sam
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks in advance...
> 
>

> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
> 
> 
> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
> 
> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
> 
>> 
>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
> 
> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
> 
> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> Thanks, George.
>> 
>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>> 
>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> George,
>>> 
>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>> 
>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>> 
>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>> 
>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>> 
>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>> 
>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>> 
>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 = normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 = normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>> 
>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>> 
>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>> 
>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>> 
>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>> 
>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 = 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>> 
>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>> 
>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>> 
>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>> 
>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>> 
>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>> 
>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>> 
>>>> Sam
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks in advance...
> 
>

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "PianoBench@..." <PianoBench@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> 
> Sam, I did a little digging and checked out the MIDI implementation chart for the Mark II. The Mark II does not recognize controller 7. Recognition of controller 7 was a feature that was introduced with the Mark IIXG. 
> 
> The wagon grand, MX100A&B, MX80 series, and Mark II do not recognize controller 7 for the piano tracks.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:53 AM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
> 
>

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
> 
> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
> 
> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
> 
>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> Â 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>> 
>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>> 
>>> 
>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>> 
>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>> 
>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sam 
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>> 
>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7,                                                       the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>> 
>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>> 
>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>> 
>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>> 
>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> George,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>> 
>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>> 
>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the                                                           resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments                                                           that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or                                                           down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
> 
> --
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:10 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

 

  

Thanks Spence - I would be interested...

Sam 

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

 

 

 

 


On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

  

about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 

if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.

On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:

  

 

 

Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.

 

Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer), 





 

I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.

 

Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?

 

Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...

 

Thanks again!





 

Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

  



Sam  

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

 

 

 

 


On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>



Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.





  

 

 

You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.

 

I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to? 





 

The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)

 

On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?

 

Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?

 

Thanks in advance for your help...





 

 

 

Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

  

Thanks, George.

 

Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 

 

I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.

 

 



Sam  

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

 

 

 

 


On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:

  

George,

 

Great Disklavier volume explanation!!

Bill


On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:

  

Good afternoon, everyone.

 

Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:

 

(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel

For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.

 

The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.

 

Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). 

 

(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity

Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.

 

In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.

 

Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.

 

Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.

 

Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.

 

NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 

 

(3) MIDI Controller 7

The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:

 

Controller 64 = sustain pedal

Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal

Controller 67 = una corda pedal

 

Many controllers are undefined. 

 

The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).

 

Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.

 

In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.

 

In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 

 

If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.

 

Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.

 

Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.

 

(4) MIDI Controller 11

MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 

 

Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.

 

There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.

 

Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.

 

Regards,

PianoBench

 

On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:





  

 

So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?

Sam 

www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com/> 

(212) 684-3304

 

*(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)


On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:

  

 

Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.

Bill


On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:

  

Hi everyone,

I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com <http://www.disklavierworld.com/> ?

I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?

Thanks in advance...

 

 

 





--
 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309

From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>

Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.

You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.

I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?

The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)

On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?

Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?

Thanks in advance for your help...

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

Thanks, George.

Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV.

I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:

George,

Great Disklavier volume explanation!!

Bill

On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:

(1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel

For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.

The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.

Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).

(2) MIDI Note-on Velocity

Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.

In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.

Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:27 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
> Let's back up for a moment.
> 
> 
> When an instrument plays louder, the timbre changes, generally getting brighter. Therefore, we expect both a volume change and a timbre change when an instrument switches from soft to loud or loud to soft.
> 
> When controller 7 is applied to electronic voices, its function is to change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Going back to my organ pipe analogy, that is like opening and closing the louvers of a pipe chamber, thus allowing the sound to get louder or making it get softer. It is also like turning up or down the volume knob on your stereo. If you are listening to your stereo and the instrumentalist is playing loud, you can tell, even if you have turned the volume down. Why? Because you can still hear the timbre change.
> 
> Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it would change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Obviously, that is not practical. Therefore, controller 7 scales up or down the note-on velocities of the piano as appropriate. Nothing more; nothing less.
> 
> PianoBench
> 
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Pianobench, thanks for this.
>> 
>> To be clear, what would controller 7 control n the DKV if it were able to?
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "PianoBench@..." <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good morning, everyone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sam, I did a little digging and checked out the MIDI implementation chart for the Mark II. The Mark II does not recognize controller 7. Recognition of controller 7 was a feature that was introduced with the Mark IIXG. 
>>> 
>>> The wagon grand, MX100A&B, MX80 series, and Mark II do not recognize controller 7 for the piano tracks.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:53 AM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how ch anging MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
> 
>

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:57 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry, but I am running out of ways to explain this.
> 
> 
> MIDI note-on velocity determines either the speed of your key movement or the exact speed of the hammer as it hits the string (depending upon which model of Disklavier you have). 
> 
> MIDI volume (controller 7) has no effect on the wagon grand, MX100A&B, MX80, or Mark II. 
> 
> Changing the controller 7 value for the piano part on a Mark IIXG or later Disklavier will result in higher note-on velocities if you set controller 7 greater than 100 and lower note-on velocities if you set it lower than 100. How much change is actually applied to the individual note-on velocities during playback is unknown.
> 
> PianoBench
> 
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> Therefore, controller 7 scales up or down the note-on velocities of the piano as appropriate. Nothing more; nothing less.
>> 
>> How is this different than changing velocity? What is the difference between velocity and MIDI volume on a DKV?
>> 
>> Sam
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:27 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Let's back up for a moment.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When an instrument plays louder, the timbre changes, generally getting brighter. Therefore, we expect both a volume change and a timbre change when an instrument switches from soft to loud or loud to soft.
>>> 
>>> When controller 7 is applied to electronic voices, its function is to change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Going back to my organ pipe analogy, that is like opening and closing the louvers of a pipe chamber, thus allowing the sound to get louder or making it get softer. It is also like turning up or down the volume knob on your stereo. If you are listening to your stereo and the instrumentalist is playing loud, you can tell, even if you have turned the volume down. Why? Because you can still hear the timbre change.
>>> 
>>> Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it would change the volume of sound without changing the timbr e. Obviously, that is not practical. Therefore, controller 7 scales up or down the note-on velocities of the piano as appropriate. Nothing more; nothing less.
>>> 
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Pianobench, thanks for this.
>>>> 
>>>> To be clear, what would controller 7 control n the DKV if it were able to?
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "PianoBench@..." <PianoBench@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Good morning, everyone.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam, I did a little digging and checked out the MIDI implementation chart for the Mark II. The Mark II does not recognize controller 7. Recognition of controller 7 was a feature that was introduced with the Mark IIXG. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The wagon grand, MX100A&B, MX80 series, and Mark II do not recognize controller 7 for the piano tracks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:53 AM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I 'm not sure how ch anging MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

\ufffd

Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it would change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Obviously, that is not practical.

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Mark Fontana
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:20 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

 

  


On 02/18/2014 12:26 PM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

 

 

Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it
would change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Obviously,
that is not practical.


Are you sure?  Yamaha could be missing out on an opportunity here.  If
Proportional Lid Angle(tm) is implemented for the E4 Disklavier on MIDI
controller 7, I can already imagine videos from Craig Knudsen and The Piano
Guys making use of this new feature.   It would be no more gimmicky than the
Talking Piano video or the Mark IV's Key Waves demo.   One of the bundled
demo files could be ROOM_FAN.MID, which would fully open and close the lid
slowly for an hour on those hot summer days.

Mark Fontana

Hi Mark,

Great sense of humor. LOL

Fred

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Fontana
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:20 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

On 02/18/2014 12:26 PM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it would change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Obviously, that is not practical.

Are you sure? Yamaha could be missing out on an opportunity here. If Proportional Lid Angle(tm) is implemented for the E4 Disklavier on MIDI controller 7, I can already imagine videos from Craig Knudsen and The Piano Guys making use of this new feature. It would be no more gimmicky than the Talking Piano video or the Mark IV's Key Waves demo. One of the bundled demo files could be ROOM_FAN.MID, which would fully open and close the lid slowly for an hour on those hot summer days.

Mark Fontana

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

> On Feb 19, 2014, at 7:33 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
> 
> the truth is even funnier. there was a "concept" piano (i am trying to remember the name and find the link before i finish this e-mail) that had three hydraulic electric lifts for the lid to do just this. i don't think they ever built any other than the proto.
> 
>> On 2/19/2014 4:18 PM, Fred Brown RPT wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Great sense of humor. LOL
>> 
>> Fred
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Fontana
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:20 PM
>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 02/18/2014 12:26 PM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ideally, controller 7 would reposition the lid of your piano. That way, it would change the volume of sound without changing the timbre. Obviously, that is not practical.
>> 
>> 
>> Are you sure?  Yamaha could be missing out on an opportunity here.  If Proportional Lid Angle(tm) is implemented for the E4 Disklavier on MIDI controller 7, I can already imagine videos from Craig Knudsen and The Piano Guys making use of this new feature.   It would be no more gimmicky than the Talking Piano video or the Mark IV's Key Waves demo.   One of the bundled demo files could be ROOM_FAN.MID, which would fully open and close the lid slowly for an hour on those hot summer days.
>> 
>> Mark Fontana
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356 
> (425) 791-0309
>

> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
> 
> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
> 
>  
> 
> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
> 
>  
> 
> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards
> 
>  
> 
> Geoff Ward
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
> 
> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
> 
>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>> 
>> Sam 
>> 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> 
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>> 
>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>> 
>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks again!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>> George,
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>> 
>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>> 
>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>> 
>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>> 
>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>> 
>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>> 
>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>>  
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> 
> -- 
>  
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356 
> (425) 791-0309
>

> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:54 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
> 
> it should be On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) on the download page of my site but Geoff says it is not the newest. I can't find the newest so i asked him to help me find it. he can send the exe back to me to post if i can not find the source code. i might have changed the name. the downloaded file will have a slightly different name.
> 
> 
>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> Â 
>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>> 
>> Sam t
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Â 
>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Geoff Ward
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>> 
>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>> 
>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense.  I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining                                                           notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly                                                           does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI                                                           world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Â 
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> --
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>

�

Thanks, Spence - i will try it out...

Sam�

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:54 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

�

it should be On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) on the download page of my site but Geoff says it is not the newest. I can't find the newest so i asked him to help me find it. he can send the exe back to me to post if i can not find the source code. i might have changed the name. the downloaded file will have a slightly different name.

On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:

Geoff, what is the exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...

Sam t

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:

Just following up on Spencer�\u20ac\u2122s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers. The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.

(Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest �\u20ac\u201c the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).

If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV. If anyone wants them, please let me know.

Kind regards

Geoff Ward

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.

http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html

On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:

Thanks Spence - I would be interested...

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server.

if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.

On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:

�\u201a

Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.

Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),

I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.

Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?

Yes! This makes sense. �\u201a I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 12:01 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
> 
> i will post the new one as soon as i find it or Geoff sends it to me.
> 
>> On 2/19/2014 8:59 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> Â 
>> Thanks, Spence - i will try it out...
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:54 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Â 
>>> it should be On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) on the download page of my site but Geoff says it is not the newest. I can't find the newest so i asked him to help me find it. he can send the exe back to me to post if i can not find the source code. i might have changed the name. the downloaded file will have a slightly different name.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>> 
>>>> Sam t
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense.  I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at                                                           all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus                                                           allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> --
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
> 
> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
> 
> 
>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> Â 
>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Â 
>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Geoff Ward
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> 
>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>> 
>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>> 
>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> Â 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> 
>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense.  I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining                                                           notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly                                                           does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI                                                           world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Â 
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Â 
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> --
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>

Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!

Sam Kanter
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.

On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:

Geoff, what is the exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:

Just following up on Spencer\u2019s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers. The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.

(Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest \u2013 the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).

If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV. If anyone wants them, please let me know.

Kind regards

Geoff Ward

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.

http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html

On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:

Thanks Spence - I would be interested...

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server.

if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.

On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:

Â

Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.

Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),

I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.

Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?

Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
> 
> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
> 
>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>  
>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>> 
>> Sam Kanter
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the                                                           other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).                                                           
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally                                                           played.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...m
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356 
> (425) 791-0309
>

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
> Thanks so much, Spence. I will experiment with these settings, and report back with results...
> 
> Sam Kanter
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...m> wrote:
>>  
>> [Attachment(s) from Geoff Ward included below]
>> Sam
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>> 
>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>> 
>> Sam 
>> 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> 
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>> 
>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam 
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>>  
>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>> Spencer@...
>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> [Attachment(s) from Geoff Ward included below]
> Sam
> 
>  
> 
> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
> 
>  
> 
> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards
> 
>  
> 
> Geoff
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
> 
> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
> 
> Sam 
> 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> 
> (212) 684-3304
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>  
>> 
>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>> 
>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sam Kanter
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>  
>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>> Spencer@...
>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>> (707) 984-8356 
>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> 
>

Sam

The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano. On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure). So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped. At 40 all strings were fully damped. So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel. However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I\u2019m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines. It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp. This is always a compromise. The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred. It\u2019s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect. On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.

The soft pedal is not so critical. For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect. I\u2019m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.

Kind regards

Geoff

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume

Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?

This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.

On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:

Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!

Sam Kanter
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.

On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:

Geoff, what is the exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...

Sam

www.keyboardcollective.com

(212) 684-3304

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
> 
> Sam
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Sam
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>> 
>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>> 
>> Sam 
>> 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> 
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>> 
>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam 
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...m
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>>  
>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>> Spencer@...m
>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
> 
> Sam
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Sam
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>> 
>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>> 
>> Sam 
>> 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> 
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>> 
>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...m> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam 
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>>  
>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>> Spencer@...
>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309

> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>  
> Sam, 
> 
> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
> 
> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
> 
> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
> 
> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>> 
>> Sam
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Sam
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>> 
>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>> 
>>> Sam 
>>> 
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> 
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@...m>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>>  
>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>> (425) 791-0309

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
> 
> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
> 
> Sam Kanter
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>  
>> Sam, 
>> 
>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>> 
>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>> 
>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>> 
>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance...
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sam
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Sam
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>> 
>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@...m [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:49 AM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> 
> The Piano-e-Competition has traditionally made files available in the following formats:
> 
> --XP
> This type of file is intended for playback on a Disklavier PRO.
> 
> This is a Type 0 Standard MIDI File with all piano data on channel 1. It includes the extra MIDI messages (aftertouch and controller messages) that provide the extra bits of resolution that the Disklavier PRO is uniquely capable of utilizing. Although these files can be played on any MIDI instrument, the XP (or Extended Precision) portion of the data will be ignored unless the playback device is a PRO. These files are larger than the SMF files discussed below.
> 
> --Standard MIDI File
> This type of file is intended for playback on any non-PRO Disklavier that supports the SMF format and which responds to incremental pedal data on channel 1. This means Mark IIXG and later instruments.
> 
> This is a Type 0 SMF with all of the piano data on channel 1. 
> 
> --E-SEQ
> This is an older, Yamaha-specific file format and is intended for Mark II and earlier Disklaviers. Note and on/off pedal data are on channel 1 and incremental pedal data is on channel 3.
> 
> Sam, for Piano-e-Competition files, I recommend that you try downloading the E-SEQ versions. Given your in-depth use of your Disklavier, I encourage you to get the necessary parts from Yamaha Piano Service that would enable you to replace your current control unit with a DKC-850. This would bring your instrument up to modern standards.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:03 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As i look at event lists from DKV files (from eCompetitions) it seems that #67 is soft pedal. Sustain data is all #64, both on/off and incremental. 
>> 
>> I don't know how to batch copy all pedal data to another channel (at least with the sequencer I have here at home), but I certainly can move everything to ch 1.  Ill try this and report back. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>>> 
>>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>>> 
>>> Sam Kanter
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Sam, 
>>>> 
>>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>>> 
>>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@...m] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...m> wrote:
> 
> i wrote about moving pedal data to ch 3 but then read this. i am not sue what you are trying to do. if you want the pedal data on ch 3 you can use midimod2 to do that as i explained. if you are trying to move pedal data from ch 3 to ch 1 you can use my remap channels program which will move all channel 3 data to wherever you want it.
> 
>> On 2/24/2014 9:58 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>  
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>> 
>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>> 
>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>> 
>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance...
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sam
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Sam
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later                                 point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>> 
>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because                                                           the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to                                                           full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument                                                           like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is                                                           a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A                                                           value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356 
> (425) 791-0309
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
> 
> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...m> wrote:
> 
>  
> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
> 
> Sam Kanter
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>  
>> Sam, 
>> 
>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>> 
>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>> 
>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>> 
>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance...
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sam
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Sam
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>> 
>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> 
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
> Bill, it seems I can do this with Spence's MIDImod program. I will try and report back...
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>> 
>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>> 
>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>> 
>> Sam Kanter
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...m> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Sam, 
>>> 
>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>> 
>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>> 
>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>> 
>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sam 
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Sam
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sam
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam 
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>> 
>>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:49 AM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> 
> The Piano-e-Competition has traditionally made files available in the following formats:
> 
> --XP
> This type of file is intended for playback on a Disklavier PRO.
> 
> This is a Type 0 Standard MIDI File with all piano data on channel 1. It includes the extra MIDI messages (aftertouch and controller messages) that provide the extra bits of resolution that the Disklavier PRO is uniquely capable of utilizing. Although these files can be played on any MIDI instrument, the XP (or Extended Precision) portion of the data will be ignored unless the playback device is a PRO. These files are larger than the SMF files discussed below.
> 
> --Standard MIDI File
> This type of file is intended for playback on any non-PRO Disklavier that supports the SMF format and which responds to incremental pedal data on channel 1. This means Mark IIXG and later instruments.
> 
> This is a Type 0 SMF with all of the piano data on channel 1. 
> 
> --E-SEQ
> This is an older, Yamaha-specific file format and is intended for Mark II and earlier Disklaviers. Note and on/off pedal data are on channel 1 and incremental pedal data is on channel 3.
> 
> Sam, for Piano-e-Competition files, I recommend that you try downloading the E-SEQ versions. Given your in-depth use of your Disklavier, I encourage you to get the necessary parts from Yamaha Piano Service that would enable you to replace your current control unit with a DKC-850. This would bring your instrument up to modern standards.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:03 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As i look at event lists from DKV files (from eCompetitions) it seems that #67 is soft pedal. Sustain data is all #64, both on/off and incremental. 
>> 
>> I don't know how to batch copy all pedal data to another channel (at least with the sequencer I have here at home), but I certainly can move everything to ch 1.  Ill try this and report back. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>>> 
>>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>>> 
>>> Sam Kanter
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Sam, 
>>>> 
>>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>>> 
>>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:57 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon, everyone.
> 
> 
> Sam, have you tried copying any of the Piano-e-Competition E-SEQ files to a floppy disk and then playing them in the Disklavier? That would be a good way of testing your instrument's response to the incremental pedal data on channel 3.
> 
> I don't know with certainty, but I think that one of the programs on the Internet that converts E-SEQ to SMF may do so without making any changes to the channel assignments. If so, that is probably your best way of converting E-SEQ to SMF for playback on your Mark II from a computer.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So, E-SEQ files separate incremental pedal data to ch3, while MIDI files retain this data but puts everything on ch 1?
>> 
>> I originally downloaded FIL (E-SEQ) files, but then changed to MIDI thinking they were the same. Also, the only playback program I found that plays FIL is YAMM, which often has problems. Are there any other programs that will play FIL files?
>> 
>> I will experiment later.
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:49 AM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good morning, everyone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Piano-e-Competition has traditionally made files available in the following formats:
>>> 
>>> --XP
>>> This type of file is intended for playback on a Disklavier PRO.
>>> 
>>> This is a Type 0 Standard MIDI File with all piano data on channel 1. It includes the extra MIDI messages (aftertouch and controller messages) that provide the extra bits of resolution that the Disklavier PRO is uniquely capable of utilizing. Although these files can be played on any MIDI instrument, the XP (or Extended Precision) portion of the data will be ignored unless the playback device is a PRO. These files are larger than the SMF files discussed below.
>>> 
>>> --Standard MIDI File
>>> This type of file is intended for playback on any non-PRO Disklavier that supports the SMF format and which responds to incremental pedal data on channel 1. This means Mark IIXG and later instruments.
>>> 
>>> This is a Type 0 SMF with all of the piano data on channel 1. 
>>> 
>>> --E-SEQ
>>> This is an older, Yamaha-specific file format and is intended for Mark II and earlier Disklaviers. Note and on/off pedal data are on channel 1 and incremental pedal data is on channel 3.
>>> 
>>> Sam, for Piano-e-Competition files, I recommend that you try downloading the E-SEQ versions. Given your in-depth use of your Disklavier, I encourage you to get the necessary parts from Yamaha Piano Service that would enable you to replace your current control unit with a DKC-850. This would bring your instrument up to modern standards.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:03 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> As i look at event lists from DKV files (from eCompetitions) it seems that #67 is soft pedal. Sustain data is all #64, both on/off and incremental. 
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know how to batch copy all pedal data to another channel (at least with the sequencer I have here at home), but I certainly can move everything to ch 1.  Ill try this and report back. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>>>>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:55 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon, everyone.
> 
> 
> Sam, have you tried copying any of the Piano-e-Competition E-SEQ files to a floppy disk and then playing them in the Disklavier? That would be a good way of testing your instrument's response to the incremental pedal data on channel 3.
> 
> I don't know with certainty, but I think that one of the programs on the Internet that converts E-SEQ to SMF may do so without making any changes to the channel assignments. If so, that is probably your best way of converting E-SEQ to SMF for playback on your Mark II from a computer.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So, E-SEQ files separate incremental pedal data to ch3, while MIDI files retain this data but puts everything on ch 1?
>> 
>> I originally downloaded FIL (E-SEQ) files, but then changed to MIDI thinking they were the same. Also, the only playback program I found that plays FIL is YAMM, which often has problems. Are there any other programs that will play FIL files?
>> 
>> I will experiment later.
>> 
>> Sam 
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:49 AM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Good morning, everyone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Piano-e-Competition has traditionally made files available in the following formats:
>>> 
>>> --XP
>>> This type of file is intended for playback on a Disklavier PRO.
>>> 
>>> This is a Type 0 Standard MIDI File with all piano data on channel 1. It includes the extra MIDI messages (aftertouch and controller messages) that provide the extra bits of resolution that the Disklavier PRO is uniquely capable of utilizing. Although these files can be played on any MIDI instrument, the XP (or Extended Precision) portion of the data will be ignored unless the playback device is a PRO. These files are larger than the SMF files discussed below.
>>> 
>>> --Standard MIDI File
>>> This type of file is intended for playback on any non-PRO Disklavier that supports the SMF format and which responds to incremental pedal data on channel 1. This means Mark IIXG and later instruments.
>>> 
>>> This is a Type 0 SMF with all of the piano data on channel 1. 
>>> 
>>> --E-SEQ
>>> This is an older, Yamaha-specific file format and is intended for Mark II and earlier Disklaviers. Note and on/off pedal data are on channel 1 and incremental pedal data is on channel 3.
>>> 
>>> Sam, for Piano-e-Competition files, I recommend that you try downloading the E-SEQ versions. Given your in-depth use of your Disklavier, I encourage you to get the necessary parts from Yamaha Piano Service that would enable you to replace your current control unit with a DKC-850. This would bring your instrument up to modern standards.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> PianoBench
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:03 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> As i look at event lists from DKV files (from eCompetitions) it seems that #67 is soft pedal. Sustain data is all #64, both on/off and incremental. 
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know how to batch copy all pedal data to another channel (at least with the sequencer I have here at home), but I certainly can move everything to ch 1.  Ill try this and report back. Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam 
>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>>>>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@spencerserolls.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
>

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
> 
> George, I used the YAM player to convert FIL to MIDI, but not sure what it did to channel assignments. I think it put everything on ch 1. I will check as soon as I have time...
> 
> Sam 
> www.keyboardcollective.com
> (212) 684-3304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:55 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>> 
>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam, have you tried copying any of the Piano-e-Competition E-SEQ files to a floppy disk and then playing them in the Disklavier? That would be a good way of testing your instrument's response to the incremental pedal data on channel 3.
>> 
>> I don't know with certainty, but I think that one of the programs on the Internet that converts E-SEQ to SMF may do so without making any changes to the channel assignments. If so, that is probably your best way of converting E-SEQ to SMF for playback on your Mark II from a computer.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> PianoBench
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So, E-SEQ files separate incremental pedal data to ch3, while MIDI files retain this data but puts everything on ch 1?
>>> 
>>> I originally downloaded FIL (E-SEQ) files, but then changed to MIDI thinking they were the same. Also, the only playback program I found that plays FIL is YAMM, which often has problems. Are there any other programs that will play FIL files?
>>> 
>>> I will experiment later.
>>> 
>>> Sam 
>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>> (212) 684-3304
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 9:49 AM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Good morning, everyone.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The Piano-e-Competition has traditionally made files available in the following formats:
>>>> 
>>>> --XP
>>>> This type of file is intended for playback on a Disklavier PRO.
>>>> 
>>>> This is a Type 0 Standard MIDI File with all piano data on channel 1. It includes the extra MIDI messages (aftertouch and controller messages) that provide the extra bits of resolution that the Disklavier PRO is uniquely capable of utilizing. Although these files can be played on any MIDI instrument, the XP (or Extended Precision) portion of the data will be ignored unless the playback device is a PRO. These files are larger than the SMF files discussed below.
>>>> 
>>>> --Standard MIDI File
>>>> This type of file is intended for playback on any non-PRO Disklavier that supports the SMF format and which responds to incremental pedal data on channel 1. This means Mark IIXG and later instruments.
>>>> 
>>>> This is a Type 0 SMF with all of the piano data on channel 1. 
>>>> 
>>>> --E-SEQ
>>>> This is an older, Yamaha-specific file format and is intended for Mark II and earlier Disklaviers. Note and on/off pedal data are on channel 1 and incremental pedal data is on channel 3.
>>>> 
>>>> Sam, for Piano-e-Competition files, I recommend that you try downloading the E-SEQ versions. Given your in-depth use of your Disklavier, I encourage you to get the necessary parts from Yamaha Piano Service that would enable you to replace your current control unit with a DKC-850. This would bring your instrument up to modern standards.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> PianoBench
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:03 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> As i look at event lists from DKV files (from eCompetitions) it seems that #67 is soft pedal. Sustain data is all #64, both on/off and incremental. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know how to batch copy all pedal data to another channel (at least with the sequencer I have here at home), but I certainly can move everything to ch 1.  Ill try this and report back. Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sam 
>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have both on/off and incremental on channel 1, then copy all of the pedal data (Controllers 64 and 67) to channel 3. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you can't extract the pedal data from the note data, and 
>>>>>> if you are making Piano-only music, try just copying ALL of the note and pedal data on channel 1 to channel 3.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:35 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill, not sure what you mean here. How would I copy MIDI half-pedal (controller #67) from channel 1 to channel 3 on MIDI files that have both on ch 1? I am referring to files that already have the half-pedal data.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe you can copy your on/off pedal data from channel one to channel 3 on both types of MIDI files. Leave your on/off pedal data on channel 1 and then make your incremental modifications to the on/off pedal data on channel 3. You should be fine.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff and Spence have both been incredibly generous in trying to help me with the clunking, noisy damper pedal on my MK II DKV when playing back MIDI files.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> After trying Spence's pedal on/off program to no avail, we are realizing that the older DKVs like the MKII receive damper on/off  data on ch 1, and half-pedal data on ch 3. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can anyone enlighten us on what type of MIDI files (0 or1) have pedal info on ch 3? Is there a way to extract this data that might be embedded on ch 1?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Does anyone with older DKVs have this clunking pedal issue, and have they found a way to solve it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Sam Kanter <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff, the settings are very helpful. Hopefully I can experiment tomorrow and see how they work. I will report back and update. Thanks!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:57 PM, "Geoff Ward" <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The attached screenshot is of the settings I found best, but it depends on the regulation of the piano.  On mine, the dampers just clear all of the strings at a midi value of 60 (I created a test file with various levels to ascertain that figure).  So I set it at a max of 70 to ensure strings were undamped.  At 40 all strings were fully damped.  So a range of 40 to 70 minimises the pedal travel.  However, the ramps of midi 64 controllers thus created still descend to 0 if time permits, so I’m not quite sure what the pedal off threshold of 40 determines.  It does seem to put a shoulder in the ramp at the 40 mark and affects the position of the ramp.  This is always a compromise.  The sustain pedal will take effect at a later point in time and will come off earlier and I think that the threshold levels are intended to position the ramps so that the sustain actuation occurs as close as possible to where the former on/off controllers occurred.  It’s not perfect because damper lift-off is not perfect.  On my piano, which is new, the damper lift-off range is about 50 to 60.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The soft pedal is not so critical.  For the soft pedal, the ramp is set to run the full range from 0 to 127, as you would expect.  I’m again not sure of the significance of the on and off threshold values, but these settings worked for me.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skanter123
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Geoff, do you have an idea what would be good starting settings for MPX100II?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is a mark II DKV, not mark II XG.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> i wrote the program but Geoff did the testing and has a DKV to test on so he is the authority for appropriate settings, at least for pianos similar to his.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 10:16 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow - this looks like just what the doctor ordered to fix the noisy on/off pedaling issue. Can't wait to test it during day hours. Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Kanter
>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com  and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers.  The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV.  If anyone wants them, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Ward
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! This makes sense. Â I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it). Â Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, George.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data. Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PianoBench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (212) 684-3304
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Â 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@...
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>>>>>>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>>>>>>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>>>>>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>>>>>>>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>>>>>>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>>>>>>>>> (425) 791-0309
>> 
>>