Great - thanks! Sam www.keyboardcollective.com (212) 684-3304 > On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote: > > i uploaded the new version of the pedal modifier program do not use the link in the last e-mail because the name has changed. go to the download page of my site spencerserolls.com and find the On Off to Gradual Pedal converter program (New) actually, this link might work from e-mail but best to visit the download page instead. > > >> On 2/19/2014 8:20 PM, Skanter123 wrote: >>  >> Geoff, what is the  exact name of Spencer's pedal program? I could not find it... >> >> Sam >> www.keyboardcollective.com >> (212) 684-3304 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Ward <gward1211@...> wrote: >> >>>  >>> Just following up on Spencer’s comments about his program to apply up and down ramps to on-off pedal controllers. The program works best with type 0 midi files and it works well to remove pedal noise from my MKIV when playing low volume midi files. File of just piano music can be easily converted from type 1 to type 0 in a program like Cakewalk, or Spencer also has a program to do it. >>> >>>  >>> >>> (Spencer, the pedal modifier program on your website is not the latest – the latest version displays parameters for both sustain and soft pedals). >>> >>>  >>> >>> If someone wants to use this program, I have worked out the settings which give good results for my MKIV. If anyone wants them, please let me know. >>> >>>  >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>>  >>> >>> Geoff Ward >>> >>>  >>> >>>  >>> >>>  >>> >>> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase >>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 February 2014 4:23 AM >>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >>> >>>  >>> >>>  >>> >>> my computer is screwing up after that last win8 update. not sure how much i can do while traveling. hope it recovers. it looks like the most recent version of on off to gradual pedaling is on the download page of my web site. Geoff reads this list. he recently had some "problems" with the program but it turned out to be misunderstanding of what it could do. he remembers better than i so can probably answer questions. i know he has successfully used it to reduce both soft and sustain pedal noise. be sure to use the on off to gradual, not the reverse. the program has to interpolate ramped controllers. it does the best it can but you have to choose settings for some strange files??? probably best to use the default settings until you figure out something better. >>> >>> http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html >>> >>>> On 2/18/2014 9:10 AM, Skanter123 wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>> Thanks Spence - I would be interested... >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> www.keyboardcollective.com >>>> >>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:13 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote: >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> about pedals, i have a program that interpolates progressive pedaling in to MIDI files. not sure if i put it on my web site or not. i recently went through testing with Geoff Ward and i believe we found the program to do what it should. it definitely reduces pedal noise. i am really busy right now getting ready for a trip but will probably be stuck in the airport for hours later today (weather) and can make sure a working version is posted to my server. >>>>> >>>>> if anyone is interested, let me know. i have a lot to do so will not bother unless people want it. >>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/2014 12:01 AM, Skanter123 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry about that. I mis-read your question. George will need to respond on your Controller 7 question about how it affects the Disklavier. I just know that Controller 7 is set to 100 at the beginning of Yamaha PianoSoft Disklavier files. >>>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Hmmm...I'm wondering how MIDI volume (controller 7) can affect an acoustic piano. It seems the only way to affect volume on a DKV is by velocity or soft pedal (bringing hammers closer), >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not seen any sort of volume control curve for Disklavier. >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Noisy pedals - This is usually the result of playing MIDI files that have ON/OFF pedaling, instead of incremental pedaling. During playback, ON/OFF pedaling goes from full OFF to full ON and then back to full OFF. This is much noiser (and much less musical) than incremental pedaling. I imagine that when you record on your Disklavier, the playback of the pedals is much better, right? >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes! This makes sense.  I wonder if there is a simple way to control this when playing MIDI files that only have ON/OFF? Probably some utility somewhere... >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks again! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...> >>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> >>>>>> Cc: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 10:53 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam >>>>>> >>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com >>>>>> >>>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill, thanks for your detailed reply. I'm still confused about a few things, though. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> You stated that you are reducing MIDI velocities and not hearing a difference on the Disklavier. My guess is that your music must be playing pretty softly and the Disklavier will not attempt to play it any softer, even with the velocities reduced. Just to confirm that your velocity changes are or are not working, take a very high velocity note and reduce its velocity considerably and see if the Disklavier plays it back considerable softer. >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> I said that lowering MIDI VOLUME (not velocity) produced no affect. I'm not sure how changing MIDI volume (controller #7) affects the DKV if at all. Is it supposed to? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> The built in volume control on the Disklavier compresses the playback, reducing the highest velocity notes much more than the lower velocity notes. On your MPX100II, at a certain volume level (I think -7, the hammer rest rail of your piano moves the hammers much closer to the strings, thereby making the piano play much softer.) >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> On my DKV, the velocity seems to decrease as I bring it down from 0 to -10, but I'm not sure what the curve is. Is there a graphic showing this curve? I assume the  volume control affects velocity only, and not the soft pedal? >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Another unrelated issue i have is that, on some MIDI file playback, the damper pedal is quite noisy. It is sustaining notes properly but moving up and down more than it needs to (like some of my beginning students who stamp on the pedal until they learn to use it).  Is there a way to control the continuous movement of the pedal to limit it's movement somewhat so it will be quieter? >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance for your help... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Skanter123 <skanter123@...> >>>>>> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKV volume >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, George. >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> Being a synthesist as well as pianist, I was there at MIDI's start, and know my way around SYSEX charts, but am still confused about how MIDI volume and velocity affects an acousto-electric instrument like the DKV. >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> I see no affect when I lower MIDI volume of MIDI files with a sequencer. How is that supposed to work? Also, does changing velocity values affect the force or speed of the hammers, or just implement the soft pedal? What exactly does the built-in volume control on DKV do, is it the same on all DKVs? Mine is a 1997 MPX100II. >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam >>>>>> >>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com >>>>>> >>>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote: >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> George, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great Disklavier volume explanation!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:41 PM, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good afternoon, everyone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is a comprehensive dissertation on the various elements that affect playback volume of the Disklavier: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Disklavier's Volume Setting on the Control Panel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For all Disklaviers except the Mark IV, volume is set on a scale of 0 to -10. A setting of 0 is the default (full volume) and is the only setting that properly plays back a file that was recorded on the instrument. All of the other volume settings on the control panel result in the volume being scaled down, with -10 as the lowest setting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Mark IV is a bit different. The hand-held PRC has a volume meter that goes from 1 to 127. A value of 100 is normal, full volume. A higher value scales up the volume beyond normal, and a lower setting scales down the volume. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bottom Line: For accurate playback, set your Disklavier's volume to 0 (or to 100, in the case of the Mark IV). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (2) MIDI Note-on Velocity >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Depending upon the model of Disklavier, MIDI note-on velocity represents either the hammer velocity of the note (in the case of instruments that have hammer sensors) or the key velocity of a note (in the case of the Disklaviers that do not have hammer sensors). The range of possible values is 0 to 127. A value of 0 in the MIDI world is the same as a note-off message. Therefore, the effective minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 127. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the case of casual playing, the Disklavier generates note-on values in the range of about 40 to 90. When an artist pushes the dynamic range of the instrument, the low values may start in the 15-20 range and go up into the 105-115 range. It is rather unusual for a pianist to generate note-on values above 115. Note-on values below 20 are often brushed notes that were barely played and/or which may have been accidentally played. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for what a particular MIDI note-on value actually means. If you record a MIDI file on certain Yamaha keyboards--such as an AvantGrand or a Clavinova, the playback on the Disklavier will sound pretty good. If you record on a Yamaha DGX-640, playback may sound OK in the soft range but will sound bizarre in the medium to loud range with certain notes unexpectedly jumping out at you. The reason is that the velocity profile of the DGX-640 does not match the velocity profile of the Disklavier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many light action keyboards routinely generate velocities in the range of 100-127. When those files are played on a Disklavier, it may sound as though one is taking a sledgehammer to the instrument. The best way to adjust for these files is to scale down the velocities so that they are within the Disklavier's normal range. That does not mean that the resulting velocity profile will match up musically with the Diskla vier's profile, but at least the sound will not be excruciatingly loud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bottom Line: It's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NOTE: The Disklavier PRO records note-on velocity with higher than normal resolution, effectively on a scale of 0 - 1023 where the Disklavier PRO's 0 normal MIDI 0 and the Disklavier PRO's 1023 normal MIDI 127. The extra bits of resolution are stored as MIDI controller data.  >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (3) MIDI Controller 7 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The MIDI spec has provision for 128 controllers, numbered from 0 to 127. Many of these controllers are defined for specific purposes. For example: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Controller 64 = sustain pedal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Controller 66 = sostenuto pedal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Controller 67 = una corda pedal >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many controllers are undefined. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The controllers that typically affect volume are controller 7 (known as Volume) and controller 11 (known as Expression). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Each track of a properly formatted MIDI file has a controller 7 value at the beginning of the track that sets an overall relative volume for the entire track. Imagine, for example, that you are creating a multitrack MIDI file for piano, bass, and flute. You might start by setting controller 7 100 at the beginning of each track. After you finish recording each track, if you decide that the flute part is a bit soft, you might raise its controller 7 value. If the bass is too loud, you might lower its controller 7 value a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In other words, you might use the controller 7 values like sliders on a channel mixer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In theory, these controller 7 values function much like swell shades in a pipe organ. A rank of pipes lives inside a chamber that is separated from the audience by a wall of louvered panels. When the organist rocks down or up on the swell pedal, these louvered panels close or open, thus causing the rank of pipes to sound softer or allowing them to sound louder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If controller 7 could be properly implemented on an acoustic piano, it would result in the lid of the piano being moved farther up or down, thus allowing the sound to be louder or causing it to be softer. Of course this is not practical. Therefore, if the controller 7 value for the piano part is higher or lower than 100, the Disklavier scales up or down the note-on velocities in order to simulate the same effect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, the authors of many MIDI files that you find on the Internet assign high values for controller 7 for the piano tracks. The reason is that they are listening to keyboards or tone generators that have weak piano samples. Therefore, they try to get a more robust sound by increasing the volume level--often in combination with deploying high key velocities. This can result in destructively loud sound when these files are played on a Disklavier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bottom Line: As stated above, it's best to stick with files that were recorded on the Disklavier or which were recorded with instruments that have similar velocity profiles. If you want to play files from other sources, it is best to make sure that controller 7 is set to 100 for the piano track and that the note-on velocities are within the normal range of what is generated by the Disklavier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (4) MIDI Controller 11 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MIDI controller 11 is known as Expression. In most cases, it functions identically to controller 7. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Authors of multitrack MIDI files often use controller 7 to set overall volume levels for each track (placing these messages at the beginning of the file) and then use controller 11 later in the file to make small adjustments to the instrumental balance or to generate crescendos and diminuendos in the case of wind and bowed instruments whose notes can sustain indefinitely. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is no need for controller 11 in a piano track. In the case of the Disklavier, using controller 11 in the piano track only serves to confuse the controller 7 setting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bottom Line: If you play files that have controller 11 messages in the piano track, it is best to get rid of them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PianoBench >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:59 PM, Sam Kanter wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So is volume on DKV normally set to 0, 3, or is it variable for each MIDI file? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sam >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.keyboardcollective.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (212) 684-3304 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *(Sent from phone - please excuse brevity and typos.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote: >>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yamaha PianoSoft files for Disklavier have controller 7 set to 100 at the beginning of each file. Without it, files typically play too loud on a Disklavier. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Skanter123 <skanter123@...> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've been unclear about this: regarding volume, is there a "normal" volume for playback of MIDI files, i.e. the thousands on www.disklavierworld.com? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've been using 3, but wondering if 0 is the starting point. Is each MIDI file different volume? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks in advance... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>  >>>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase >>>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >>>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. >>>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >>>>> Spencer@... >>>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com >>>>> (707) 984-8356 >>>>> (425) 791-0309 >>> >>> >>> -- >>>  >>> Best regards, Spencer Chase >>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. >>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >>> Spencer@spencerserolls.com >>> http://www.spencerserolls.com >>> (707) 984-8356 >>> (425) 791-0309 > > -- > > Best regards, Spencer Chase > 67550-Bell Springs Rd. > Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. > Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. > Spencer@... > http://www.spencerserolls.com > (707) 984-8356 > (425) 791-0309 >
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Re: [disklavier] DKV volume
2014-02-20 by Skanter123