Disklavier

Thank you George, this has been very helpful.  

One of the Disklavier Techs suggested that if I don't want to loose the ability of the Pro playback and recording detail that I should install the DKC-850 unit as an "add-on" not as a "replacement" controller.  Apparently the 850 strips out XP data from Pro recordings so the full dynamics of the Pro's advance solenoid and recording functions are lost.  

I did a test by playing some very technical classical songs from a PRO-XP sampler disk on the DC5-PRO with the 850 hooked up as the master controller and the MKIIXG unit disconnected.  

Then I followed the instructions in the DKC-850 manual and hooked up the old controller with the 850 as the slave with Midi cables and played the identical music stored on the MK-IIXGs internal memory.  
It seems obvious to my ears and eyes that the identical piece was much more precise and sounded fantastic!   

In addition, I'm able to use all of the internal voices from the MKIIXG out to my amplifier.  

The downsides to this arrangement are:
1. I now have 2 controllers hooked up which require additional unsightly cables and very different looking units taking up a lot of space.  
2. Internet Radio will not function in this configuration, however my wireless internet, and PC2Piano all seem to be functioning normally.
I don't think I'd get a lot of use out of the DRadio service anyway. 
3. The remote can signal both controllers at once so you have to tape up the old Controller and it cannot be controlled with the iPhone 4 app (which btw is a FANTASTIC app..I love it!!).

I'd be very grateful if anyone else has had experience with these configurations and what they have found missing or discovered.  

Thanks KC
--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@...> wrote:
>
> Good evening, everyone.
> 
> I hope that someone from Zenph will speak up regarding the Mark IIXG Pro and the Mark IV Pro. I have not had the opportunity to do serious, back-to-back comparisons. I can tell you that the Mark IIXG Pro records pedal movement on a scale of 0-127 and that the Mark IV Pro does it on a scale of 0-255.
> 
> You asked about what you sacrifice when you replace the Mark IIXG Pro with a DKC-850 control unit. You lose the following:
> 
> --Playback of XP Data
> The DKC-850 does not playback XP song data. (It does, however, record XP data.)
> 
> --Sending XP Data On/Off
> The DKC-850 does not send XP data although it does send aftertouch data for silent notes.
> 
> --Receiving XP Data On/Off
> The On/Off selection feature is missing. I don't know if the DKC-850 responds to that kind of data.
> 
> --Keyboard Out Split/Transposition
> This option is gone.
> 
> --MIDI Thru2
> This feature was previously available in order to allow you to connect an external tone generator. The incoming MIDI data stream would get the 500 ms delay applied to it before it was passed to the MIDI Out port. This option is gone.
> 
> --Piano Part Ensemble Out On/Off
> The DKC-850 gives you an opportunity to designate MIDI Out as either Keyboard Out or Ensemble Out. If you choose Ensemble Out, by default, the old control units and the DKC-850 do not send the piano part of a song out the MIDI port or USB MIDI port during playback. The old control units, however, gave you an option to turn on Piano Part Ensemble Out when you turned on Ensemble Out. This option is gone.
> 
> --Voice: Option to have Piano Tone On or Off
> When in Quiet Mode, it used to be possible to have the Piano Tone On while layering another voice on top. This feature is no longer present.
> 
> --MIDI Input Choice
> The choices for MIDI Input used to include ## on Mark III, Mark IIXG, Mark II and other models. When this choice was selected, the piano would not play any of the incoming data and all data would go to the tone generator. This feature is not present on the DKC-850.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> www.georgelitterst.com
> www.timewarptech.com
> www.zenph.com
> 
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 6:40 PM, kassey22000 wrote:
> 
> > Helo, 
> > Great explanation. 
> > 
> > How does a Mark IIXG Pro compare to a Mark IV Pro as far as playback resolution and dynamic range? And what do you sacrifice coverting a Mark IIXG Pro to a DKC-850 in such comparisons? 
> > 
> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, George Frederick Litterst <PianoBench@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good afternoon, everyone.
> > > 
> > > This is true. The early Disklaviers compressed the dynamic range on playback, boosting the low MIDI velocities and capping the high MIDI velocities.
> > > 
> > > Starting with the Mark IIXG Pro, Yamaha achieved a full spectrum of playback possibilities on the Disklavier. The original Pro and subsequent Pro models have been unsurpassed in this regard and offer more resolution in between the traditional 0-127 velocity measurements. The Mark III, current E3, and Mark IVs non-Pros also have a much wider dynamic range compared to the early model instruments.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > PianoBench
> > > 
> > > www.georgelitterst.com
> > > www.timewarptech.com
> > > www.zenph.com
> > > 
> > > On Mar 9, 2011, at 1:24 PM, Spencer chase wrote:
> > > 
> > > > the older dkvs do not play soft notes very well. also they only play the range of something like 30 to 100 just as you have discovered. if you have files that use the whole dynamic range from 1 to 127, you can remap them to the DKV range with either Veloset or with my midimod2 program. You will never be able to change the capabilities of the piano by modifying the software but you can achieve a better match between the source and what the piano wants.
> > > > midimod2 is on the following page: http://www.spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
> > > > 
> > > > On 3/8/2011 10:42 PM, jboxnz wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> 
> > > >> Did some further test with test midi samples of different velocity ranging from 5 to 100. The piano did play the samples with different volume. However the loudness of samples with note velocity 5, 10, 20 and 30 are almost the same (all pretty loud to my ear), while those with 40, 60, 80, 90 and 100 have discernible difference, progressively louder).
> > > >> 
> > > >> It seems to me that the piano cannot play very soft notes well, and notes with velocity 1-20 are all played at similar volume. It works best for 30-100...didn't try anything over 100 though.
> > > >> 
> > > >> Really great to have the piano play by itself...and all the midi music from the web.
> > > >> 
> > > >> Cheers
> > > >> 
> > > >> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "jboxnz" <junkbox.nz@> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > We recently bought a grey market U3 (originally from Japan) with a playback-only Disklavier systerm. The S/N on the piano indicates it's a 1986 model, although the test menu on the controller seems to show 1993 firmware (Maybe a retrofit system). It looks like a MX80 unit with separate control unit and has the same physical layout and test menu as the MX80 according to the service manul I found on the web.
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > I hooked it via a USB-Midi cable to my computer and to play the downloaded midi files (From www.kuhmann.com). What I found is that the piano seems to play at same volume no matter what I do with the velocity of the midi files (I use Veloset). Also for soft notes it also plays quite loud. Say for a midi piece with note velocity ranged from 10-100, all notes seems were played at same volume.
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > However in the test mode, it seems can play softely and forcefully.
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > Is this normal for it or something wrong?
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > I've made some more test midi files with different velocity and volume settings, and will do more test tonight.
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > Appreciate any info.
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > Cheers
> > > >> >
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Best regards, Spencer Chase
> > > > 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> > > > Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> > > > Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> > > > Spencer@
> > > > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > > > (707) 984-8356 
> > > > (425) 791-0309
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> >
>