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Editing XG midi files

Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by ipermedia

Hallo to everybody,
I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time spent
to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for delivery.
I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
(Windows, Mac, Linux). 

I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
not afraid to learn one more editor.

Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
answer in the group messages before posting......).

Thanks in advance 

Roberto Fasciani

Re: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by athomik

Any decent sequencing package, such as Cakewalk or Cubase, should allow you to edit MIDI data. All you need is the facility to edit SYSEX messages, which will allow you to access all XG parameters.

athomik

On Sep 4 2007, ipermedia wrote:

>Hallo to everybody,
>I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time spent
>to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for delivery.
>I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
>(Windows, Mac, Linux).
>
>I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
>suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
>I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
>not afraid to learn one more editor.
>
>Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
>answer in the group messages before posting......).
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Roberto Fasciani
>
>
>
>
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Re: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by Carol Beigel

I think accessing the XP data is the problem on "regular" MIDI editors.  I 
think Yamaha's XG works did this.  I have version 3.0 but I do not think it 
is currently available.  The folks at Zenph, and George Litterist (aka 
Pianobench) can probably help you.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "ipermedia" <r.fasciani@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:46 AM
Subject: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files


> Hallo to everybody,
> I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time spent
> to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for delivery.
> I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
> (Windows, Mac, Linux).
>
> I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
> suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
> I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
> not afraid to learn one more editor.
>
> Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
> answer in the group messages before posting......).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Roberto Fasciani
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, 
> go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That 
> will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you 
> insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 
> 9:31 AM
>
>

Re: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by George F. Litterst

Good morning, everyone.

It is correct to say that a reasonably featured sequencing program is  
all you need for editing XG MIDI data. HOWEVER, the original question  
sounded as though the owner of a Mark IV Pro might have been asking  
about so-called XP data (using the wrong choice of words):

 >I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
 >suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data

When the Disklavier engineers designed the Disklavier Pro, they  
needed to come up with a way of providing:

--2-types of note-on events, one for hammer velocity and one for key- 
down velocity

--higher-than-normal resolution for hammer velocity, key-down  
velocity, and key-up velocity

--a way of representing silent notes (notes whose keys move but whose  
hammers never hit the strings)


Since these requirements go beyond the confines of normal MIDI data,  
the engineers came up with a cleaver way of using undefined MIDI  
messages to provide these features.

Regrettably, all sequencers are ignorant of XP data. When you use a  
sequencer to open an XP MIDI file, the sequencer reads the file into  
its own internal format. When you save the file as a Standard MIDI  
File, the sequencer exports the data back to the Standard MIDI File  
format. During the process of importing and exporting the MIDI data,  
the typical sequencer:

--blows away all sequencer-specific meta events (including various  
messages that are put there by the Disklavier)

--rearranges the order of MIDI events that occur on the same clock  
tick (the order of these event is crucial to the interpretation of XP  
data)


The result is that the function of the higher resolution XP data is  
lost. The file is still playable, but the resolution is normal.

There is only one program that I have found with which you can edit  
XP data with certainty: MidiGraphy for the Macintosh. This is an old  
program that does not run under OS X.

I am not sure, but I suspect that the old Yamaha XGWorks program for  
Windows will enable you to edit XP data. Unfortunately, this program  
is no longer published.

What is needed here is one of the following:

(1) a simple MIDI editor which does not remove any MIDI events behind  
your back and which does not change the order of any MIDI events AND  
the user needs the knowledge of how the XP format works

(2) a professional sequencer that is smart about XG

If you want to edit a performance that was recorded in XP format on a  
Pro, my advice is to strip the XP data (leaving you with a regular  
MIDI file) and then edit the MIDI data in a sequencer of your choice.  
The Pro (both Mark IV Pro and pre-Mark IV Pro) has a feature for  
stripping the XP data.

Regards,
PianoBench
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sep 4, 2007, at 6:52 AM, athomik wrote:

> Any decent sequencing package, such as Cakewalk or Cubase, should  
> allow you to edit MIDI data. All you need is the facility to edit  
> SYSEX messages, which will allow you to access all XG parameters.
>
> athomik
>
> On Sep 4 2007, ipermedia wrote:
>
> >Hallo to everybody,
> >I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time  
> spent
> >to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for  
> delivery.
> >I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
> >(Windows, Mac, Linux).
> >
> >I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
> >suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
> >I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
> >not afraid to learn one more editor.
> >
> >Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
> >answer in the group messages before posting......).
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >Roberto Fasciani

Re: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by JORGE FERNANDEZ

Bon giorno caro Roberto. I think I understand what you mean. As far as I know there was one program published by Yamaha but now is discontinued (as most

Re: [disklavier] Editing XG midi files

2007-09-04 by Mark Fontana

I could be wrong, but since Roberto indicated he has a C3 Mark IV Pro, I
think he meant to write "*XP* extra-midi data", referring to Yamaha's
extensions to the MIDI stream providing high-res strike and release
velocity data for the Disklavier Pro.  The extra bits are sent using
certain MIDI NRPNs (non-registered parameter numbers).

(The confusion arose because Yamaha also has a spec called XG, an
extension to the General MIDI spec for the multitimbral use of MIDI.  
They've also defined an XF spec extending the lyric metadata events in
MIDI files.  Yamaha seems to like naming their specs X*.)

There does not seem to be any publicly-available sequencing software
that can conveniently edit Yamaha XP streams.  (By conveniently, I mean
software that automatically associates the NRPN extensions with their
corresponding notes and permits adding/deleting/editing such events as a
unit.  Trying to edit XP streams using conventional software like
Cakewalk requires the operator to manually associate the NRPN events
with the correct adjacent note events, and adjusting note velocities 
would be very tedious.

Yamaha and Zenph Studios surely have their own internal tools for this 
task but have not released them to others.

Mark Fontana
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, athomik wrote:

> Any decent sequencing package, such as Cakewalk or Cubase, should allow you to
> edit MIDI data. All you need is the facility to edit SYSEX messages, which will
> allow you to access all XG parameters.
> 
> athomik
> 
> On Sep 4 2007, ipermedia wrote:
> 
> >Hallo to everybody,
> >I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time spent
> >to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for delivery.
> >I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
> >(Windows, Mac, Linux).
> >
> >I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
> >suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
> >I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
> >not afraid to learn one more editor.
> >
> >Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
> >answer in the group messages before posting......).
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >Roberto Fasciani

Re: Editing XG midi files

2007-09-06 by ipermedia

Excuse me for this mistake, I wrote XG instead of XP 

I wish to thanks for all these suggestion and I will try to do some
experiment with some more programs. I will make you know.

Roberto




--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Mark Fontana <mfontana@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I could be wrong, but since Roberto indicated he has a C3 Mark IV Pro, I
> think he meant to write "*XP* extra-midi data", referring to Yamaha's
> extensions to the MIDI stream providing high-res strike and release
> velocity data for the Disklavier Pro.  The extra bits are sent using
> certain MIDI NRPNs (non-registered parameter numbers).
> 
> (The confusion arose because Yamaha also has a spec called XG, an
> extension to the General MIDI spec for the multitimbral use of MIDI.  
> They've also defined an XF spec extending the lyric metadata events in
> MIDI files.  Yamaha seems to like naming their specs X*.)
> 
> There does not seem to be any publicly-available sequencing software
> that can conveniently edit Yamaha XP streams.  (By conveniently, I mean
> software that automatically associates the NRPN extensions with their
> corresponding notes and permits adding/deleting/editing such events as a
> unit.  Trying to edit XP streams using conventional software like
> Cakewalk requires the operator to manually associate the NRPN events
> with the correct adjacent note events, and adjusting note velocities 
> would be very tedious.
> 
> Yamaha and Zenph Studios surely have their own internal tools for this 
> task but have not released them to others.
> 
> Mark Fontana
> 
> 
> On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, athomik wrote:
> 
> > Any decent sequencing package, such as Cakewalk or Cubase, should
allow you to
> > edit MIDI data. All you need is the facility to edit SYSEX
messages, which will
> > allow you to access all XG parameters.
> > 
> > athomik
> > 
> > On Sep 4 2007, ipermedia wrote:
> > 
> > >Hallo to everybody,
> > >I'm an happy brand new owner of a C3ProMarkIV, after a long time
spent
> > >to decide if and what to buy and more than 6 month waiting for
delivery.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > >I live in Rome, Italy, and I am a retired computer technician
> > >(Windows, Mac, Linux).
> > >
> > >I'm interested in to explore midi editing but I cannot find a
> > >suggested one to work right with XG extra-midi data.
> > >I used lot of professional editors in my life for composing and I'm
> > >not afraid to learn one more editor.
> > >
> > >Has anyone found a good product to edit XG? (I've tried for this
> > >answer in the group messages before posting......).
> > >
> > >Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >Roberto Fasciani
>

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