Disklavier

I have a Mark 111.
 
Recently, I tried my hand at an arrangement where I did horns and strings  
in Finale, saved as a mid file,  then wanted to add piano on channels 1 and  
2. Or even just 1.
 
I did it a few times and each time, the pedal data did not record. I tested 
 doing just piano, and it worked fine.
 
I read about the different ways of recording the R-L hand where channel 3  
could hold the pedal, but I believe it said it could also be on channel 1.
 
For the life of me I could not get it to work....
 
Has anyone any experience with this?
 
BTW, I tried saving the mid. files both ways, I believe lit was type 0 or  
1, and only one seemed to work in the piano, can't remember which it was, 
but I  believe with all tracks combined into one track.  

Blessings,  

Wanda
 
p.s. as an side here, Finale 10 has beautiful orchestral horns and strings. 
 When they played ont he disklavier they osoudn=ed awful and I had to redo  
everything to strings to be even remotely workable. The horns especially 
were  very cheesy sounding in my arrangement.
 
Is the way around this linking up a sampler? Or are there better  sounds 
hidden somewhere there in the box?

On Sun, 2009-12-20 at 18:23 -0500, wandamusic@... wrote:

> p.s. as an side here, Finale 10 has beautiful orchestral horns and
> strings. When they played ont he disklavier they osoudn=ed awful and I
> had to redo everything to strings to be even remotely workable. The
> horns especially were very cheesy sounding in my arrangement.
>  
> Is the way around this linking up a sampler? Or are there better
> sounds hidden somewhere there in the box?

One solution would be to mute the piano part in Finale and export its
playback of just the horns and strings to a WAV file.  Then save a
special version of the MIDI file that contains only the piano part.
Then merge the WAV and MIDI file into a combined WAV file encoded to
Disklavier format and burn that to a CD.  MID2PianoCD can do this
merging:  http://dp70.dyndns.org/mid2pianocd/  The result will be a CD
track that combines the live piano playback of the Disklavier with the
better horns and strings from Finale.

I'm not sure whether Finale can export WAV files in this way; if not,
you could play it in Finale as usual and use a program like Audacity
(http://audacity.sourceforge.net) to record the audio that Finale is
producing.

Mark Fontana

Sorry I just have to comment quickly, yes the disklaviers have bad synths :p

I have a mark4 and hate the sound of the synths except the base/drums which is ok with Sue Downs and other trio bands...

I think the only way is to do as Mark said, use a PC with proper sound synths and make a wave etc. The only problem is it's a slow and sloppy method.

Who here loves the POP Radio channel how funny, its like streaming mobile phone music lol

Cya

Philip




________________________________

From: "wandamusic@..." <wandamusic@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 10:23:47 AM
Subject: [disklavier] pedal recording in "ensemble" piano recording (also sound ?)

  
I have a Mark 111.
 
Recently, I tried my hand at an arrangement where I did horns and strings 
in Finale, saved as a mid file,  then wanted to add piano on channels 1 and 
2. Or even just 1.
 
I did it a few times and each time, the pedal data did not record. I tested 
doing just piano, and it worked fine.
 
I read about the different ways of recording the R-L hand where channel 3 
could hold the pedal, but I believe it said it could also be on channel 1.
 
For the life of me I could not get it to work.....
 
Has anyone any experience with this?
 
BTW, I tried saving the mid. files both ways, I believe lit was type 0 or 
1, and only one seemed to work in the piano, can't remember which it was, but I 
believe with all tracks combined into one track. 
 
Blessings, 

Wanda
 
p.s. as an side here, Finale 10 has beautiful orchestral horns and strings. 
When they played ont he disklavier they osoudn=ed awful and I had to redo 
everything to strings to be even remotely workable. The horns especially were 
very cheesy sounding in my arrangement.
 
Is the way around this linking up a sampler? Or are there better 
sounds hidden somewhere there in the box? 
 


      __________________________________________________________________________________
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Mark and PHil,
 
Thanks for comments on the sounds. To me they sound just like my old  DX7.  
;-(
 
But I figured there must be some way to export the nice sampled  sounds, 
right now it may be a little beyond my skill set but I looked  at Finale and 
it appears I can export as .wav! (so I assume it is "legal" to use  those 
sounds elsewhere - like for my DK)
 
I still don't know how to record the piano with pedal though.
 
I must add - I arranged strings and horns, I wanted to PLAY (improvise) the 
 piano part on the DK, as no way could I make as nice a part as I can play.
 
Well it was a nice version of Silent Night, so now I guess I have almost a  
year for that arrangement!
 
Let me tell you, I was so excited as the fanfares at the end really  
sounded nice in finale, I was so ready to run to the piano and finish it, and of  
course it was a huge disappointment when I played over and over but never 
would  the pedal be recorded.
 
;-(  

Blessings,  

Wanda

The advantage to doing it the way I described (making a piano+audio CD 
track) is that the resulting performance could be played more easily 
(without needing the computer nearby).  It could also be shared with 
others without each recipient needing to own Finale and appropriate MIDI 
hardware, having to configure their Disklavier appropriately, etc.

As I've posted before, the piano+audio CD format has some definite 
limitations, but this seems to be a case where it could eliminate 
considerable hassle.  Even the 500 ms delay requirement is handled 
properly without the need to make manual adjustments in Finale or using 
external tools.

Mark Fontana

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 01:20:04PM -0500, George F. Litterst wrote:

> Spencer, that would be useful in this situation if Wanda had a program on her computer that she uses to play the MIDI and if that program offers 2 MIDI outputs (one for the Disklavier and one for the Garritan Aria player).
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
> On Dec 21, 2009, at 12:40 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
> 
> > Greetings George,
> > 
> > If anyone is interested, I can write a program to shift midi events in time to compensate for the .5 second delay in the piano's response time. Events could be shifted on a channel or patch basis. This would allow the live playing of midi files without having to make a disc. I would probably add this as a a feature to my MidiMod2 program.
> > 
> > Monday, December 21, 2009, 8:22:03 AM, you wrote: 
> > 
> >   
> > Good morning, everyone.
> > 
> > Wanda, I have a few suggestions:
> > 
> > (1) Recording from the Disklavier
> > If you use Finale's HyperScribe Tool to record your performance, all of the data that is sent from your Disklavier will be sent on MIDI channel 1 (notes and pedals)--unless you did something to change the MIDI output of  your Disklavier.
> > 
> > So, forget anything you may have read about older Disklavier files having notes on channels 1 and 2 and pedals on 3. That does not apply here. You'll be recording on channel 1 and for playback, you'll want to set your Disklavier to receive on channel 1.
> > 
> > HyperScribe has an option to record continuous data. Be sure that option is turned on.
> > 
> > (2) If you record first on your Disklavier and then choose to import the MIDI file into Finale, you'll have an option during import to include pedals.
> > 
> > (3) When you choose sounds in Finale for the other instruments, you have a number of choices:
> > 
> > --the sounds available in your MIDI output device
> > 
> > --Finale's built-in set or sounds
> > 
> > --Garritan Personal Orchestra (which now comes with Finale)
> > 
> > You'll get the best results with Garritan, particularly if you use Finale's human playback feature assigned to Garritan. But then you'll have the problem of figuring out how to play back the results and hear the piano part on your Disklavier and the other parts played with Garritan.
> > 
> > If you play back from Finale and output the piano parts to the Disklavier, the Disklavier will be out of time with the other tracks due to the mechanical delay of the piano. To avoid this problem,  you have 2 options:
> > 
> > (a) Save as a Type 1 SMF and play the file from the Disklavier. When you do, set your Disklavier's MIDI Out to Ensemble Out so that the ensemble tracks will be played by an external device. Output the accompaniment tracks to your computer. On your  computer, set up the Garritan Aria player program with the correct sounds loaded.
> > 
> > (b) Play back from Finale
> > Send all data to your Disklavier. On the Disklavier, set MIDI Output to MIDI Thru. On your  computer, set up the Garritan Aria player program with the correct sounds loaded.
> > 
> > Option B is rather complicated.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > George
> > 
> > 
> > On Dec 20, 2009, at 6:23 PM, wandamusic@... wrote:
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > I have a Mark 111.
> >  
> > Recently, I tried my hand at an arrangement where I did horns and strings in Finale, saved as a mid file,  then wanted to add piano on channels 1 and 2. Or even just 1.
> >  
> > I did it a few times and each time, the pedal data did not record. I tested doing just piano, and it worked fine.
> >  
> > I read about the different ways of recording the R-L hand where channel 3 could hold the pedal, but I believe it said it could also be on channel 1.
> >  
> > For the life of me I could not get it to work....
> >  
> > Has anyone any experience with this?
> >  
> > BTW, I tried saving the mid. files both ways, I believe lit was type 0 or 1, and only one seemed to work in the piano, can't remember which it was, but I believe with all tracks combined into one track. 
> >  
> > Blessings, 
> > 
> > Wanda
> >  
> > p.s. as an side here, Finale 10 has beautiful orchestral horns and strings. When they played ont he disklavier they osoudn=ed awful and I had to redo everything to strings to be even remotely workable. The horns especially were very cheesy sounding in my arrangement.
> >  
> > Is the way around this linking up a sampler? Or are there better sounds hidden somewhere there in the box?

George and Mark,
 
Many thanks for these remarks, I will print out this digest as there is so  
much here.
 
My point of making this recording was as a gift for one of my students who  
has a disklavier.... their house had burned down a year ago and they just  
finally replaced the disklavier, but of course lost all their files..
 
On impulse I decided to make an arrangement of Silent Night, and as often  
happens, my imagination works full speed, while the reality lags behind.
 
If the sounds in the DK had been tolerable I'd have just expected to record 
 a midi file and popped that on a floppy.
 
But once I learned the sounds were not cutting it - well that changes  
things, so to complete this project for the future, I like the idea of burning a 
 CD of the Garritan instruments which sound pretty amazing.
 
And the problem I still need to solve is why cannot I record a piano part  
along with the midi of other instruments that includes the pedal?
 
This was making me nuts, I did it over and over trying to vary how I  did 
it hoping i'd hit on what would work. When I find out,I will probably see if  
I have what I need to make a CD to go wth it, where I only pout the 
instruments  on the CD, allowing live playing of piano.  

Blessings,  

Wanda

 
p.s. One thing I did, having had to work with the manuals - I didn't  like 
the 2 manuals with 2/3rds of the pages in foreign languages, so I took them  
to Office Max and had the backs chopped off then spiral bound both parts of 
the  manual into one, removing all unnecessary pages. It is now much 
smaller and  more convenient, with the spiral binding.