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Midi sequencing experts, need your help

Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-11-30 by nicurx

Greetings,

First post, just found the group....looks like a lot of experts on here, so I'm going to ask a novice question.....I've been downloading tons of great midi files from a bunch of sources after getting my E3 a few weeks ago.

I've had good results so far using the free midi sequencing software, Anvil Studios to reassign other midi voices to play on the disklavier acoustic keyboard (certainly not a great program, but free and fairly intuitive).  There is one midi so far that is giving me fits, though....one particular version of BJ Thomas's  'Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head" as downloaded on the link below, sounds great via computer and okay on the disklavier, except no matter how I try to resequence, reassign channels to CH1, CH2, etc....attampts to merge tracks, change voice to acousic grand, etc....after dozens of attempts using various tricks that have worked on other files, the disklavier will only play any assigned piano parts through the tone generator, not the keys....can someone take a look at the file and see if they can let me know if there is something in the file preventing the assigning of tracks to the acoustic piano?  Your input would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks much.

Link:  

http://electrofresh.com/midi-12262-download-b_j_thomas-raindrops_keep_falling_on_my_head.html

Re: [disklavier] Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-11-30 by Spencer chase

that piece is a rather complex arrangement with different parts on several channels and tracks. i am not sure but i think that the DKV wants a type 0 will all channels on a single track and there are requirements as to where the piano parts must be located. you could probably start by converting it to type 0 although there may be some unanticipated conflicts converting something so complicated to type 0. then you would have to move the piano parts to channels 0 and 1 and the pedals (i think) to a channel lower than 3. i think that some old DKVs wanted the pedals on channel 2 but i think that newer ones don't care as long as they are on a channel lower than 3. this can all be done in a sequencer that has the right features such as saving as type 0 and addition of patches and changing of notes to different channels. this sort of processing can take a lot of experience and lots of time. i have some utilities that can simplify things and one that might even do most of what you need automatically. first, i have a midi 1 to midi 0 converter but there are plenty of those around. then you will need to find the piano parts and move them to channels 1 and 2 (technically 0 and 1 but some sequencers start counting at 1 instead of 0) and make sure that channels 0 and 1 have a patch (instrument definition) of either 0 or 1. if you can identify the channels that the piano parts are on, you can use mu remap channels program to move them to the right channel but is is also a good idea to move whatever is on channel 0 and 1 to some place else. you can find my utilities and a doc about using them on the following page of my site. be warned that MIDI can get very complicated and take many hours to learn how it works and how to edit it. if you just want to listen to music, it might be better to spend the time finding files that are already close to what you want. once you are done moving channels and adding patches etc you will probably find that the piece sounds awful. you really have to arrange for a target instrument to have any chance of it sounding good.
http://www.spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
Show quoted textHide quoted text

Greetings,

First post, just found the group....looks like a lot of experts on here, so I'm going to ask a novice question.....I've been downloading tons of great midi files from a bunch of sources after getting my E3 a few weeks ago.

I've had good results so far using the free midi sequencing software, Anvil Studios to reassign other midi voices to play on the disklavier acoustic keyboard (certainly not a great program, but free and fairly intuitive). There is one midi so far that is giving me fits, though....one particular version of BJ Thomas's 'Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head" as downloaded on the link below, sounds great via computer and okay on the disklavier, except no matter how I try to resequence, reassign channels to CH1, CH2, etc....attampts to merge tracks, change voice to acousic grand, etc....after dozens of attempts using various tricks that have worked on other files, the disklavier will only play any assigned piano parts through the tone generator, not the keys....can someone take a look at the file and see if they can let me know if there is something in the file preventing the assigning of tracks to the acoustic piano? Your input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks much.

Link:

http://electrofresh.com/midi-12262-download-b_j_thomas-raindrops_keep_falling_on_my_head.html


-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-11-30 by nicurx

Thanks for the reply.....On other files, I've actually pretty successfully changed voices (the whole gamut: string base to harmonica, flute, etc..) to acoustic piano, and even merged tracks together to simplify the file on even more compicated multipart midi's using the free sequencer I mentioned....but for some reason, no matter how I rearrange this particular piece, it plays whatever I assign to acoustic piano to play through the tone generator, even though you can tell it's just a synthesized piano voice.  Maybe there's something strange about this file that just won't allow it.

Thanks again



--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer chase <lists@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> that piece is a rather complex arrangement with different parts on 
> several channels and tracks. i am not sure but i think that the DKV 
> wants a type 0 will all channels on a single track and there are 
> requirements as to where the piano parts must be located. you could 
> probably start by converting it to type 0 although there may be some 
> unanticipated conflicts converting something so complicated to type 0. 
> then you would have to move the piano parts to channels 0 and 1 and the 
> pedals (i think) to a channel lower than 3. i think that some old DKVs 
> wanted the pedals on channel 2 but i think that newer ones don't care as 
> long as they are on a channel lower than 3. this can all be done in a 
> sequencer that has the right features such as saving as type 0 and 
> addition of patches and changing of notes to different channels. this 
> sort of processing can take a lot of experience and lots of time. i have 
> some utilities that can simplify things and one that might even do most 
> of what you need automatically. first, i have a midi 1 to midi 0 
> converter but there are plenty of those around. then you will need to 
> find the piano parts and move them to channels 1 and 2 (technically 0 
> and 1 but some sequencers start counting at 1 instead of 0) and make 
> sure that channels 0 and 1 have a patch (instrument definition) of 
> either 0 or 1. if you can identify the channels that the piano parts are 
> on, you can use mu remap channels program to move them to the right 
> channel but is is also a good idea to move whatever is on channel 0 and 
> 1 to some place else.  you can find my utilities and a doc about using 
> them on the following page of my site. be warned that MIDI can get very 
> complicated and take many hours to learn how it works and how to edit 
> it. if you just want to listen to music, it might be better to spend the 
> time finding files that are already close to what you want. once you are 
> done moving channels and adding patches etc you will probably find that 
> the piece sounds awful. you really have to arrange for a target 
> instrument to have any chance of it sounding good.
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > First post, just found the group....looks like a lot of experts on 
> > here, so I'm going to ask a novice question.....I've been downloading 
> > tons of great midi files from a bunch of sources after getting my E3 a 
> > few weeks ago.
> >
> > I've had good results so far using the free midi sequencing software, 
> > Anvil Studios to reassign other midi voices to play on the disklavier 
> > acoustic keyboard (certainly not a great program, but free and fairly 
> > intuitive). There is one midi so far that is giving me fits, 
> > though....one particular version of BJ Thomas's 'Raindrops Keep 
> > Falling on My Head" as downloaded on the link below, sounds great via 
> > computer and okay on the disklavier, except no matter how I try to 
> > resequence, reassign channels to CH1, CH2, etc....attampts to merge 
> > tracks, change voice to acousic grand, etc....after dozens of attempts 
> > using various tricks that have worked on other files, the disklavier 
> > will only play any assigned piano parts through the tone generator, 
> > not the keys....can someone take a look at the file and see if they 
> > can let me know if there is something in the file preventing the 
> > assigning of tracks to the acoustic piano? Your input would be greatly 
> > appreciated! Thanks much.
> >
> > Link:
> >
> > http://electrofresh.com/midi-12262-download-b_j_thomas-raindrops_keep_falling_on_my_head.html
> >
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-12-02 by Carol Beigel

Just a thought, but have you set Channel 1 to Prg or Prg All using the control box on your Disklavier?  and Chanel 2 to Prg instead of ##?  Or, while the file is playing, press the -> key so you can see what is playing what on each channel.  You can usually reassign channels by by adjusting the Yes or No buttons.

Carol Beigel
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@YahooGroups.com
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@eGroups.com or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-12-03 by nicurx

Thank you for the idea.... I seem not to be able to reassign specific channels during playback on the E3's controller (DKC-800)....I set the master settings to PRG on channels 1 and 2, still no luck...still playing synthesized keyboard no matter how I reassign....I did break down and buy the $4 midi file of this song from Yamaha and was able to reassign the tracks I wanted to the acoustic piano, though.  Anyone else wanting to do this, it's pretty easy to do with enough patience, the results aren't always perfect, but by reassigning, merging tracks and setting them to channels 1 and 2, you usually get a pretty good (and free!) midi file for your disklavier.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carol Beigel <carol@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Just a thought, but have you set Channel 1 to Prg or Prg All using the control box on your Disklavier?  and Chanel 2 to Prg instead of ##?  Or, while the file is playing, press the -> key so you can see what is playing what on each channel.  You can usually reassign channels by by adjusting the Yes or No buttons.
> 
> Carol Beigel
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> > 
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> > 
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > 
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> > 
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [disklavier] Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-12-04 by George Frederick Litterst

Good afternoon, everyone.

Here is the solution to Nicurx's problem:

Set all of the tracks (except the drum track) to MIDI channel 1. Change all of the patch assignments in these tracks to Patch 1 (or to 0 if your sequencer numbers patches starting with 0). Don't set the drum track (normally found on channel 10) to anything other channel 10. If you do, you'll hear all sorts of random notes.

Here is the long winded explanation for what is going on:

The Disklavier has a split personality: it is both a piano and a tone generator. For this reason there is always the issue of which notes should be played by the piano and which notes should be played by the tone generator.

This split personality issue arises whenever you play back a performance file that was not published by Yamaha, not recorded on a Disklavier or Clavinova, or not published according to Yamaha's standards. This issue must be confronted no matter whether you are playing back a file from floppy disk, USB flash drive, or internal memory. The issue similarly manifests itself if you send MIDI data to the piano from an external sequencer.

Yamaha-Published Song Files and Files Recorded on Disklavier or Clavinova
When Yamaha publishes a song file for Disklavier or Clavinova, it embeds a sequencer-specific message into the file that informs the Disklavier as to which data should be played by the piano. When you record a file on the piano, this message is created automatically.

An example of this message could look like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 04 03

(all "0"s are zeros)

"7F" designates the message as "sequencer-specific." This message is never sent over a MIDI cable. It is used by any sequencer that understands it, typically a Yamaha keyboard.

"43" identifies the message as a Yamaha message.

"7B 0C" specifies the nature of the message (i.e. this message specifies which MIDI channels should be mapped to the Right-and Left-Hand Part Cancel functions).

"04" identifies channel 4 data as data to be played by the piano and associated with the Right-Hand Cancel function.

"03" identifies channel 3 data as data to be played by the piano and associated with the Left-Hand Cancel function.

Over the years, music publishers of piano teaching materials have created MIDI files that accompany their methods. They have followed the Roland standard of putting the Right Hand part on channel 4 and the Left Hand part on channel 3. I have helped many of these publishers to put this message into their files so that Disklaviers and Clavinovas would know how to handle the data, as shown in the example above.

Yamaha-published files for Disklavier typically put the Left and Right parts on channels 1 and 2, respectively. Natively, the Disklavier message looks like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 01 02

On the other hand, Yamaha-published files for Clavinova typically put the Left and Right parts on channels 2 and 1, respectively. The native Clavinova message looks like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 02 01

To my knowledge, the only contemporary program available that will enable you to add such a message to a file is MidiKit for Mac:


If you assign all of your piano data to just one or two MIDI channels, you can use this program to embed the message.

NOTE: Other sequencers, including Yamaha's Cubase, will delete any existing sequencer-specific meta event when you open a MIDI file and provide no option for inserting such an event.

Playback of Non-Yamaha Song Files from Floppy, USB Flash Drive, or Internal Memory
The Mark IIXG and Mark III Disklaviers had a concept known as "Import File." They defined an import file as a song file that did not have the Yamaha sequencer-specific meta event. These models offered you the option of setting up a default condition that specified how the Disklavier would handle an import file. Your choices were:

--choose any one MIDI channel (from 1-16) for playback on the piano
--choose data assigned to channels 1 and 2 for playback on the piano
--choose data from the lowest numbered channel with an assigned "piano group" voice for playback on the piano
--choose data from all channels with an assigned "piano group" voice for playback on the piano

Normally the last choice is the best one although that may result in an occasional undesired result, such as a harpsichord part being played on the piano when you would rather hear it on the tone generator.

For some reason, the option to set this default condition was eliminated from the Mark IV, the E3, and the upgrade control unit called the DCK-850.

I can't say for certain what the rule is for how a Mark IV, E3, or DKC-850 chooses the data for playback of an import file on the piano. However, it is clear that if you both set a track's channel to 1 and assign patch 1 (or 0 in the case of sequencers that number from 0) to each of these tracks, the piano will play the parts that you want it to.

Playback from an External MIDI Sequencer
This matter is a little easier to understand. All you have to do is to set the MIDI Receive Channel on your Disklavier (any model) to a number or numbers that match the channels of the incoming piano data from the sequencer. The simplest way to do this is to set the Piano Receive Channel to 01 (which is the default) and make sure that your external MIDI file has all piano tracks assigned to channel 1.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Dec 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, nicurx wrote:

Thank you for the idea.... I seem not to be able to reassign specific channels during playback on the E3's controller (DKC-800)....I set the master settings to PRG on channels 1 and 2, still no luck...still playing synthesized keyboard no matter how I reassign....I did break down and buy the $4 midi file of this song from Yamaha and was able to reassign the tracks I wanted to the acoustic piano, though. Anyone else wanting to do this, it's pretty easy to do with enough patience, the results aren't always perfect, but by reassigning, merging tracks and setting them to channels 1 and 2, you usually get a pretty good (and free!) midi file for your disklavier.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carol Beigel wrote:
>
> Just a thought, but have you set Channel 1 to Prg or Prg All using the control box on your Disklavier? and Chanel 2 to Prg instead of ##? Or, while the file is playing, press the -> key so you can see what is playing what on each channel. You can usually reassign channels by by adjusting the Yes or No buttons.
>
> Carol Beigel
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>


Re: [disklavier] Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-12-04 by Spencer chase

wow, i will keep this for reference. however, i did find a simple solution that worked for the file originally mentioned. the original poster attempted to put the piano on channels 1 and 2 (0 and 1 for us programmers) and maybe did or didn't add 0 or 1 patches for acoustic piano and it would not work. i took the file and put the piano on 0 and 1 and added patches and sent him the file. it did not work. i have a program that i wrote (available for sharing) that i call MIDI cleaner. it makes a copy of the file but only copies essential midi events including
(note_on note_off control_change patch_change text_event copyright_text_event time_signature set_tempo key_signature key_after_touch
channel_after_touch pitch_wheel_change track_name instrument_name lyric marker cue_point)
and does not copy system exclusive or any bogus or illegal MIDI messages. when i ran the file through the file through the "cleaner" the new file played on the DKV as intended.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 12/4/2012 11:19 AM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:
\ufffd

Good afternoon, everyone.


Here is the solution to Nicurx's problem:

Set all of the tracks (except the drum track) to MIDI channel 1. Change all of the patch assignments in these tracks to Patch 1 (or to 0 if your sequencer numbers patches starting with 0). Don't set the drum track (normally found on channel 10) to anything other channel 10. If you do, you'll hear all sorts of random notes.

Here is the long winded explanation for what is going on:

The Disklavier has a split personality: it is both a piano and a tone generator. For this reason there is always the issue of which notes should be played by the piano and which notes should be played by the tone generator.

This split personality issue arises whenever you play back a performance file that was not published by Yamaha, not recorded on a Disklavier or Clavinova, or not published according to Yamaha's standards. This issue must be confronted no matter whether you are playing back a file from\ufffdfloppy disk, USB flash drive, or internal memory. The issue similarly\ufffdmanifests itself if you send MIDI data to the piano from an external sequencer.

Yamaha-Published Song Files and Files Recorded on Disklavier or Clavinova
When Yamaha publishes a song file for Disklavier or Clavinova, it embeds a sequencer-specific message into the file that informs the Disklavier as to which data should be played by the piano. When you record a file on the piano, this message is created automatically.

An example of this message could look like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 04 03

(all "0"s are zeros)

"7F" designates the message as "sequencer-specific." This message is never sent over a MIDI cable. It is used by any sequencer that understands it, typically a Yamaha keyboard.

"43" identifies the message as a Yamaha message.

"7B 0C" specifies the nature of the message (i.e. this message specifies which MIDI channels should be mapped to the Right-and Left-Hand Part Cancel functions).

"04" identifies channel 4 data as data to be played by the piano and associated with the Right-Hand Cancel function.

"03" identifies channel 3 data as data to be played by the piano and associated with the Left-Hand Cancel function.

Over the years, music publishers of piano teaching materials have created MIDI files that accompany their methods. They have followed the Roland standard of putting the Right Hand part on channel 4 and the Left Hand part on channel 3. I have helped many of these publishers to put this message into their files so that Disklaviers and Clavinovas would know how to handle the data, as shown in the example above.

Yamaha-published files for Disklavier typically put the Left and Right parts on channels 1 and 2, respectively. Natively, the Disklavier message looks like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 01 02

On the other hand, Yamaha-published files for Clavinova typically put the Left and Right parts on channels 2 and 1, respectively. The native Clavinova message looks like this:

7F 43 7B 0C 02 01

To my knowledge, the only contemporary program available that will enable you to add such a message to a file is MidiKit for Mac:


If you assign all of your piano data to just one or two MIDI channels, you can use this program to embed the message.\ufffd

NOTE: Other sequencers, including Yamaha's Cubase, will delete any existing sequencer-specific meta event when you open a MIDI file and provide no option for inserting such an event.

Playback of Non-Yamaha Song Files from Floppy, USB Flash Drive, or Internal Memory
The Mark IIXG and Mark III Disklaviers had a concept known as "Import File." They defined an import file as a song file that did not have the Yamaha sequencer-specific meta event. These models offered you the option of setting up a default condition that specified how the Disklavier would handle an import file. Your choices were:

--choose any one MIDI channel (from 1-16) for playback on the piano
--choose\ufffddata \ufffdassigned to\ufffdchannels 1 and 2 for playback on the piano
--choose data from the lowest numbered channel with an assigned "piano group" voice for playback on the piano
--choose data from all channels with an assigned "piano group" voice for playback on the piano

Normally the last choice is the best one although that may result in an occasional undesired result, such as a harpsichord part being played on the piano when you would rather hear it on the tone generator.

For some reason, the option to set this default condition was eliminated from the Mark IV, the E3, and the upgrade control unit called the DCK-850.

I can't say for certain what the rule is for how a Mark IV, E3, or DKC-850 chooses the data for playback of an import file on the piano. However, it is clear that if you both set a track's channel to 1 and assign patch 1 (or 0 in the case of sequencers that number from 0) to each of these tracks, the piano will play the parts that you want it to.

Playback from an External MIDI Sequencer
This matter is a little easier to understand. All you have to do is to set the MIDI Receive Channel on your Disklavier (any model) to a number or numbers that match the channels of the incoming piano data from the sequencer. The simplest way to do this is to set the Piano Receive Channel to 01 (which is the default) and make sure that your external MIDI file has all piano tracks assigned to channel 1.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Dec 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, nicurx wrote:

\ufffd

Thank you for the idea.... I seem not to be able to reassign specific channels during playback on the E3's controller (DKC-800)....I set the master settings to PRG on channels 1 and 2, still no luck...still playing synthesized keyboard no matter how I reassign....I did break down and buy the $4 midi file of this song from Yamaha and was able to reassign the tracks I wanted to the acoustic piano, though. Anyone else wanting to do this, it's pretty easy to do with enough patience, the results aren't always perfect, but by reassigning, merging tracks and setting them to channels 1 and 2, you usually get a pretty good (and free!) midi file for your disklavier.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carol Beigel wrote:
>
> Just a thought, but have you set Channel 1 to Prg or Prg All using the control box on your Disklavier? and Chanel 2 to Prg instead of ##? Or, while the file is playing, press the -> key so you can see what is playing what on each channel. You can usually reassign channels by by adjusting the Yes or No buttons.
>
> Carol Beigel
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: Midi sequencing experts, need your help

2012-12-06 by nicurx

A big thank you to both of you for your info and help....you can certainly do some awesome stuff with a little bit of work and playing around with the myriad of midi files out there!

Much appreciated.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer chase <lists@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> wow, i will keep this for reference. however, i did find a simple 
> solution that worked for the file originally mentioned. the original 
> poster attempted to put the piano on channels 1 and 2 (0 and 1 for us 
> programmers) and maybe did or didn't add 0 or 1 patches for acoustic 
> piano and it would not work. i took the file and put the piano on 0 and 
> 1 and added patches and sent him the file. it did not work. i have a 
> program that i wrote (available for sharing) that i call MIDI cleaner. 
> it makes a copy of the file but only copies essential midi events including
> (note_on note_off control_change patch_change text_event 
> copyright_text_event time_signature set_tempo key_signature key_after_touch
> channel_after_touch pitch_wheel_change track_name instrument_name lyric 
> marker cue_point)
> and does not copy system exclusive or any bogus or illegal MIDI 
> messages. when i ran the file through the file through the "cleaner" the 
> new file played on the DKV as intended.
> 
> On 12/4/2012 11:19 AM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:
> >
> > Good afternoon, everyone.
> >
> >
> > Here is the solution to Nicurx's problem:
> >
> > Set all of the tracks (except the drum track) to MIDI channel 1. 
> > Change all of the patch assignments in these tracks to Patch 1 (or to 
> > 0 if your sequencer numbers patches starting with 0). Don't set the 
> > drum track (normally found on channel 10) to anything other channel 
> > 10. If you do, you'll hear all sorts of random notes.
> >
> > Here is the long winded explanation for what is going on:
> >
> > The Disklavier has a split personality: it is both a piano and a tone 
> > generator. For this reason there is always the issue of which notes 
> > should be played by the piano and which notes should be played by the 
> > tone generator.
> >
> > This split personality issue arises whenever you play back a 
> > performance file that was not published by Yamaha, not recorded on a 
> > Disklavier or Clavinova, or not published according to Yamaha's 
> > standards. This issue must be confronted no matter whether you are 
> > playing back a file from floppy disk, USB flash drive, or internal 
> > memory. The issue similarly manifests itself if you send MIDI data to 
> > the piano from an external sequencer.
> >
> > *Yamaha-Published Song Files and Files Recorded on Disklavier or 
> > Clavinova*
> > When Yamaha publishes a song file for Disklavier or Clavinova, it 
> > embeds a /sequencer-specific message/ into the file that informs the 
> > Disklavier as to which data should be played by the piano. When you 
> > record a file on the piano, this message is created automatically.
> >
> > An example of this message could look like this:
> >
> > 7F 43 7B 0C 04 03
> >
> > (all "0"s are zeros)
> >
> > "7F" designates the message as "sequencer-specific." This message is 
> > never sent over a MIDI cable. It is used by any sequencer that 
> > understands it, typically a Yamaha keyboard.
> >
> > "43" identifies the message as a Yamaha message.
> >
> > "7B 0C" specifies the nature of the message (i.e. this message 
> > specifies which MIDI channels should be mapped to the Right-and 
> > Left-Hand Part Cancel functions).
> >
> > "04" identifies channel 4 data as data to be played by the piano and 
> > associated with the Right-Hand Cancel function.
> >
> > "03" identifies channel 3 data as data to be played by the piano and 
> > associated with the Left-Hand Cancel function.
> >
> > Over the years, music publishers of piano teaching materials have 
> > created MIDI files that accompany their methods. They have followed 
> > the Roland standard of putting the Right Hand part on channel 4 and 
> > the Left Hand part on channel 3. I have helped many of these 
> > publishers to put this message into their files so that Disklaviers 
> > and Clavinovas would know how to handle the data, as shown in the 
> > example above.
> >
> > Yamaha-published files for Disklavier typically put the Left and Right 
> > parts on channels 1 and 2, respectively. Natively, the Disklavier 
> > message looks like this:
> >
> > 7F 43 7B 0C 01 02
> >
> > On the other hand, Yamaha-published files for Clavinova typically put 
> > the Left and Right parts on channels 2 and 1, respectively. The native 
> > Clavinova message looks like this:
> >
> > 7F 43 7B 0C 02 01
> >
> > To my knowledge, the only contemporary program available that will 
> > enable you to add such a message to a file is MidiKit for Mac:
> >
> > http://www.mixagesoftware.com
> >
> > If you assign all of your piano data to just one or two MIDI channels, 
> > you can use this program to embed the message.
> >
> > NOTE: Other sequencers, including Yamaha's Cubase, will delete any 
> > existing sequencer-specific meta event when you open a MIDI file and 
> > provide no option for inserting such an event.
> > *
> > *
> > *Playback of Non-Yamaha Song Files from Floppy, USB Flash Drive, or 
> > Internal Memory*
> > The Mark IIXG and Mark III Disklaviers had a concept known as "Import 
> > File." They defined an import file as a song file that did not have 
> > the Yamaha sequencer-specific meta event. These models offered you the 
> > option of setting up a default condition that specified how the 
> > Disklavier would handle an import file. Your choices were:
> >
> > --choose any one MIDI channel (from 1-16) for playback on the piano
> > --choose data  assigned to channels 1 and 2 for playback on the piano
> > --choose data from the lowest numbered channel with an assigned "piano 
> > group" voice for playback on the piano
> > --choose data from all channels with an assigned "piano group" voice 
> > for playback on the piano
> >
> > Normally the last choice is the best one although that may result in 
> > an occasional undesired result, such as a harpsichord part being 
> > played on the piano when you would rather hear it on the tone generator.
> >
> > For some reason, the option to set this default condition was 
> > eliminated from the Mark IV, the E3, and the upgrade control unit 
> > called the DCK-850.
> >
> > I can't say for certain what the rule is for how a Mark IV, E3, or 
> > DKC-850 chooses the data for playback of an import file on the piano. 
> > However, it is clear that if you both set a track's channel to 1 and 
> > assign patch 1 (or 0 in the case of sequencers that number from 0) to 
> > each of these tracks, the piano will play the parts that you want it to.
> >
> > *Playback from an External MIDI Sequencer*
> > This matter is a little easier to understand. All you have to do is to 
> > set the MIDI Receive Channel on your Disklavier (any model) to a 
> > number or numbers that match the channels of the incoming piano data 
> > from the sequencer. The simplest way to do this is to set the Piano 
> > Receive Channel to 01 (which is the default) and make sure that your 
> > external MIDI file has all piano tracks assigned to channel 1.
> >
> > Regards,
> > PianoBench
> >
> > www.georgelitterst.com <http://www.georgelitterst.com/>
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, nicurx wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you for the idea.... I seem not to be able to reassign specific 
> >> channels during playback on the E3's controller (DKC-800)....I set 
> >> the master settings to PRG on channels 1 and 2, still no luck...still 
> >> playing synthesized keyboard no matter how I reassign....I did break 
> >> down and buy the $4 midi file of this song from Yamaha and was able 
> >> to reassign the tracks I wanted to the acoustic piano, though. Anyone 
> >> else wanting to do this, it's pretty easy to do with enough patience, 
> >> the results aren't always perfect, but by reassigning, merging tracks 
> >> and setting them to channels 1 and 2, you usually get a pretty good 
> >> (and free!) midi file for your disklavier.
> >>
> >> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
> >> <mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com>, Carol Beigel <carol@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Just a thought, but have you set Channel 1 to Prg or Prg All using 
> >> the control box on your Disklavier? and Chanel 2 to Prg instead of 
> >> ##? Or, while the file is playing, press the -> key so you can see 
> >> what is playing what on each channel. You can usually reassign 
> >> channels by by adjusting the Yes or No buttons.
> >> >
> >> > Carol Beigel
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@
> >> > >
> >> > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> >> moderator, send it to:
> >> > > disklavier-owner@
> >> > >
> >> > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> >> > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >> > >
> >> > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> >> > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
> >> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
> >> instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to 
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> >> > > disklavier-unsubscribe@
> >> > >
> >> > > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> >> > > disklavier-subscribe@ or give them this link:
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> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
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>

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