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timing problems with MD, please help me!

timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-08 by sticky039

Hi guys,  I need your help, because I have some synchronization
problems...
I'm using the machinedrum in my studio with other MIDI devices
(Synths, sampler, etc..) and a Mac PowerBook G3 - 500 Mhz (Mac OS
9.2). My MIDI interface is a Motu Midi Express XT (8in-out),the audio
one  is a Motu 828 firewire.
Running Logic PRO 6 as main sequencer and MIDI sync master, I've
figured out that machinedrum, set as external sync, has lots of
problem to remain in time with the master MIDI Clock of Logic. I need
to use few milliseconds of delay to keep the MD in time with Logic.
Otherwhise, setting machinedrum  as master and logic as slave, give
me the same timing problem.
Plese, give me an advise to solve this  problems....or advise me
which is the best syncronization setup in an environment like mine.
Thanks a lot, and sorry for my english.
Sticky

Re: [elektron] timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by Federico Ciapi

>  I need
> to use few milliseconds of delay to keep the MD in time with Logic.
> Otherwhise, setting machinedrum  as master and logic as slave, give
> me the same timing problem.

Do you mean that the MD stays in time but it's early (or late) ?

Re: [elektron] timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by Chris Ianuzzi

Hi,

I have been usinc Logic 6 with a Mac and a Motu 1028
with Machine Drum and Mono Machine.
I have run anything longer than :30 at a time.
Everything that is reorded ends up fine and in place
and does it's groove. However if running on input, the
latency becomes almost a shuffle feel or sounds "Just
drunk".  Generally, I have to use my imagination and
say "this will be ok "and know that it will once
recorded.





		
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Re: [elektron] timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by sticky039

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Federico Ciapi <federico.ciapi@t...> wrote:
> >  I need
> > to use few milliseconds of delay to keep the MD in time with Logic.
> > Otherwhise, setting machinedrum  as master and logic as slave, give
> > me the same timing problem.
> 
> Do you mean that the MD stays in time but it's early (or late) ?

MD it's late of few milliseconds, usually I put  -8 milliseconds in the delay panel.

Re: [elektron] timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by Federico Ciapi

>>>  I need
>>> to use few milliseconds of delay to keep the MD in time with Logic.
>>> Otherwhise, setting machinedrum  as master and logic as slave, give
>>> me the same timing problem.
>>
>> Do you mean that the MD stays in time but it's early (or late) ?
>
> MD it's late of few milliseconds, usually I put  -8 milliseconds in 
> the delay panel.
>

That's common behaviour, don't worry about that; any other timing 
issues?

Here are some good tips about logic and audio/midi latencies, you may 
find them useful.
have a look at the record offset parameter in Logic.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> OK, for Logic:
>
>  Start by measuring your record offset and and setting the record 
> delay driver parameter for source-monitored material. Follow the 
> instructions at http://www.opuslocus.com/logic/latency.html
>
>  If you are software-monitoring through Logic (not via MOTU CueMix or 
> RME TotalMix or such), the record delay calculated as above will 
> likely result in recordings that playback too early relative to 
> prerecorded tracks. How early will vary, according to whether and how 
> well a real musician is compensating for the monitoring latency, or 
> whether it's just triggered midi module playback. On the whole, I 
> recommend you do NOT attempt to compensate for software-monitored 
> recordings using the record delay driver parameter. Leave it 
> calibrated for source-monitored recordings, and run your buffer sizes 
> as low as you can possibly go. Consider using source monitoring 
> whenever possible, or "zero-latency" hardware monitoring via TotalMix, 
> CueMix, etc.
>
>  Sequence a midi click with the notes exactly on bars/beats. Output 
> that to your midi gear (set to a percussive sound with sharp attack), 
> and record the result to an audio track. Open the recording in the 
> Sample Editor, set to view in milliseconds. Measure the distance from 
> the bar/beat marks to the recorded clicks. Due to midi jitter, this 
> will not be consistent. Measure 20-30 clicks and average the result.
>
>  Adjust the "All midi output: delay" setting in Preferences >> Midi >> 
> Sync (Logic 7) or the "delay all midi output" setting in Song Settings 
> >> Synchronization >> Midi (earlier versions) to compensate. Measure 
> and check again until it's recording more or less on the beat, on 
> average. This adjusts for source-monitored midi gear.
>
>  Note that different midi gear may exhibit wildly differing delays. 
> It's your choice whether you compensate for the fastest, the slowest, 
> or an average. There's only one global setting available. For Logic 6 
> and earlier, it's a song setting, so make sure you save it into your 
> autoload, and you'll need to make the setting individually for 
> existing songs. In Logic 7 it will affect all existing and new songs 
> automatically.
>
>  You can attempt to further fine-tune for different delays among 
> different midi modules by using the Environment instrument "delay" 
> parameter, but be warned these are set in ticks, and the delay will 
> therefore change with the song tempo. You can view the delay in ms, 
> but the actual setting is always in tempo-dependent ticks. Change the 
> tempo with the Arrange "view: delay in ms" and see.
>
>  Get this far, and see what you think of the result. Then, if you 
> really really want to attempt to compensate for software-monitored 
> recordings, post again. There are a number of ways to go about it, 
> none of which are ideal. I need to to think about it a bit more before 
> I write it up.
>
>  John Pitcairn
>
>

Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by sticky039

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Federico Ciapi <federico.ciapi@t...> wrote:
> >>>  I need
> >>> to use few milliseconds of delay to keep the MD in time with Logic.
> >>> Otherwhise, setting machinedrum  as master and logic as slave, give
> >>> me the same timing problem.
> >>
> >> Do you mean that the MD stays in time but it's early (or late) ?
> >
> > MD it's late of few milliseconds, usually I put  -8 milliseconds in 
> > the delay panel.
> >
> 
> That's common behaviour, don't worry about that; any other timing 
> issues?
> 
> Here are some good tips about logic and audio/midi latencies, you may 
> find them useful.
> have a look at the record offset parameter in Logic.
> 
> 
Thanks a lot federico!!!

Re: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-14 by Federico Ciapi

>> Here are some good tips about logic and audio/midi latencies, you may
>> find them useful.
>> have a look at the record offset parameter in Logic.
>>
>>
> Thanks a lot federico!!!

You're welcome!
Have fun with your MD and make some kick-ass drums :-)

Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-15 by drammy2004

sticky039,

Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.

I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  The 
timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!

The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is first 
class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on responding 
up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!

Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better reply 
and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are NOT 
fixing it!!!


Drammy

Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-16 by endlessnessisticman

IMO Cubase should also allow for an exteral clock option.  The MD has 
no problems with timing.  I use it with Live but live allows me to 
select the MD as a clock source.  The MD manual even suggests that 
you should choose the MD as your master clock.  I assume the MD has 
problems this way because of the innacuracy of Midi clocks across 
different programs.  Computer clocks are innacurate depending on the 
processes.  The MD has a strict pattern form that does not allow for 
innacuracy.

Akai MPCs have a tracker like structure as opposed to the step 
structure of the MD.  This allows for more flexibility for timing (96 
steps a beat?).  I suggest you should get rid of the MD if Cubase is 
your main thing and is unworkable.  Replace it with a used mpc2000 or 
mpc2000xl.  

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "drammy2004" <martyn@r...> 
wrote:
> 
> sticky039,
> 
> Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> 
> I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  
The 
> timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> 
> The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is 
first 
> class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on 
responding 
> up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> 
> Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better 
reply 
> and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are 
NOT 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> fixing it!!!
> 
> 
> Drammy

Re: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-16 by Gert van Santen

endlessnessisticman wrote:
> IMO Cubase should also allow for an exteral clock option.  The MD has
> no problems with timing.  I use it with Live but live allows me to
> select the MD as a clock source.  The MD manual even suggests that
> you should choose the MD as your master clock.  I assume the MD has
> problems this way because of the innacuracy of Midi clocks across
> different programs.  Computer clocks are innacurate depending on the
> processes.  The MD has a strict pattern form that does not allow for
> innacuracy.
>
> Akai MPCs have a tracker like structure as opposed to the step
> structure of the MD.  This allows for more flexibility for timing (96
> steps a beat?).  I suggest you should get rid of the MD if Cubase is
> your main thing and is unworkable.  Replace it with a used mpc2000 or
> mpc2000xl.

Or record your different MD parts as audio loops in Cubase. You would also
have the advantage of being able to use vst compressors, then.
I'm sorry if this has been suggested before, I didn't really follow the
thread.

cheers,

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

RE: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-16 by DAVID LACKEY

Hiya,
 
Had to answer - straight up the problem is your computer/midi - not the
MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave across
multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a very
high precision clock master and believe me - the MD is the most reliable
hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all passes the MD only
drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said - this is running the MD as a
slave to a GOOD clock source.
 
Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.
 
All the best.
 
Kind regards, 
David Lackey 
Technical Support & Internal Product Specialist 
Roland Corporation Australia Pty Ltd 
Tel:61-2-9982-8266 
Fax:61-2-9981-1875 
Email:  dlackey@... <mailto:dlackey@...>  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: drammy2004 [mailto:martyn@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2005 5:38 AM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!
 

sticky039,

Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.

I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  The 
timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!

The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is first 
class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on responding 
up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!

Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better reply 
and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are NOT 
fixing it!!!


Drammy






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Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-17 by innerclock2004

Hiya,

 

Had to answer – straight up the problem is your computer/midi – not 
the MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave across 
multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a 
very high precision clock master and believe me – the MD is the most 
reliable hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all passes 
the MD only drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said – this is running 
the MD as a slave to a GOOD clock source.

 

Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.

 

All the best.

 

Kind regards, 

David



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "drammy2004" <martyn@r...> 
wrote:
> 
> sticky039,
> 
> Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> 
> I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  
The 
> timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> 
> The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is 
first 
> class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on 
responding 
> up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> 
> Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better 
reply 
> and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are 
NOT 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> fixing it!!!
> 
> 
> Drammy

Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-18 by drammy2004

MIDI/USB slop???

I have an RME soundcard which as far as I am concerned is pretty damn 
good - my question is this - why do I not have this problem with any 
other external MIDI equipment?  Only the MD.


Drammy


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "innerclock2004" <david@i...> 
wrote:
> 
> Hiya,
> 
>  
> 
> Had to answer – straight up the problem is your computer/midi – not 
> the MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave 
across 
> multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a 
> very high precision clock master and believe me – the MD is the 
most 
> reliable hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all 
passes 
> the MD only drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said – this is 
running 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> the MD as a slave to a GOOD clock source.
> 
>  
> 
> Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "drammy2004" <martyn@r...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > sticky039,
> > 
> > Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> > 
> > I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  
> The 
> > timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> > 
> > The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is 
> first 
> > class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on 
> responding 
> > up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> > simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> > 
> > Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better 
> reply 
> > and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are 
> NOT 
> > fixing it!!!
> > 
> > 
> > Drammy

Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-19 by endlessnessisticman

You also have to remember to go tell Elektron Support
support@...?  They'll try to fix it.  But the most important
thing is that you use the MD as a master.  Unfortunately Cubase does
not allow for that, and I have to say that's a problem with Cubase as
well.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "drammy2004" <martyn@r...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> MIDI/USB slop???
> 
> I have an RME soundcard which as far as I am concerned is pretty damn 
> good - my question is this - why do I not have this problem with any 
> other external MIDI equipment?  Only the MD.
> 
> 
> Drammy
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "innerclock2004" <david@i...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Hiya,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Had to answer – straight up the problem is your computer/midi – not 
> > the MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave 
> across 
> > multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a 
> > very high precision clock master and believe me – the MD is the 
> most 
> > reliable hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all 
> passes 
> > the MD only drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said – this is 
> running 
> > the MD as a slave to a GOOD clock source.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > All the best.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Kind regards, 
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "drammy2004" <martyn@r...> 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > sticky039,
> > > 
> > > Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> > > 
> > > I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  
> > The 
> > > timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> > > 
> > > The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is 
> > first 
> > > class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on 
> > responding 
> > > up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> > > simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> > > 
> > > Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better 
> > reply 
> > > and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are 
> > NOT 
> > > fixing it!!!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Drammy

[elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-19 by drammy2004

Am I missing something - is this not the same message as before?



Drammy


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "DAVID LACKEY" <dlackey@r...> 
wrote:
> 
> Hiya,
>  
> Had to answer - straight up the problem is your computer/midi - not 
the
> MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave across
> multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a 
very
> high precision clock master and believe me - the MD is the most 
reliable
> hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all passes the MD 
only
> drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said - this is running the MD as 
a
> slave to a GOOD clock source.
>  
> Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.
>  
> All the best.
>  
> Kind regards, 
> David Lackey 
> Technical Support & Internal Product Specialist 
> Roland Corporation Australia Pty Ltd 
> Tel:61-2-9982-8266 
> Fax:61-2-9981-1875 
> Email:  dlackey@r... <mailto:dlackey@r...>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: drammy2004 [mailto:martyn@r...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2005 5:38 AM
> To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!
>  
> 
> sticky039,
> 
> Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> 
> I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  
The 
> timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> 
> The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is 
first 
> class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on 
responding 
> up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> 
> Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better 
reply 
> and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are 
NOT 
> fixing it!!!
> 
> 
> Drammy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> 
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> 416645> 
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> 
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11
> 08536770416645> 
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>   
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> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!

2005-02-19 by monads

David,

What midi interface have you used the MD to get these results?  I use the Motu Micro lite in 
my setup and I get excellent results (as far as my ear can tell).  Is there something better?

monad

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "DAVID LACKEY" <dlackey@r...> wrote:
> 
> Hiya,
>  
> Had to answer - straight up the problem is your computer/midi - not the
> MD. I have personally tested the MD as a midi clock slave across
> multiple multitrack audio passes over 15 minutes record time to a very
> high precision clock master and believe me - the MD is the most reliable
> hardware sequencer you will find. On average over all passes the MD only
> drifts less than 0.3ms  - and as I said - this is running the MD as a
> slave to a GOOD clock source.
>  
> Sort the Midi/USB slop out from your computer.
>  
> All the best.
>  
> Kind regards, 
> David Lackey 
> Technical Support & Internal Product Specialist 
> Roland Corporation Australia Pty Ltd 
> Tel:61-2-9982-8266 
> Fax:61-2-9981-1875 
> Email:  dlackey@r... <mailto:dlackey@r...>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: drammy2004 [mailto:martyn@r...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2005 5:38 AM
> To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [elektron] Re: timing problems with MD, please help me!
>  
> 
> sticky039,
> 
> Sorry I didn't reply to you PM about this.
> 
> I have pretty much given up on using the MD in slave to Cubase.  The 
> timing is so awful and Elektron seem to bugger all to fix it!
> 
> The MD is my only piece of kit with this problem.  My set-up is first 
> class and certainly not at fault.  The MD still insists on responding 
> up to 100 samples early or late.  It is not consistent enough to 
> simply use a delay as sometimes it is early, sometimes late!
> 
> Apologies for not being any use here, I just thought I'd better reply 
> and let you know that I agree this is a problem and Elektron are NOT 
> fixing it!!!
> 
> 
> Drammy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129u330ju/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/
> D=grplch/S=1705031959:HM/EXP=1108623170/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12k6hjnb4/
*htt
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> 416645> 
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> <http://view.atdmt.com/NFX/view/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=11
> 08536770416645> 
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> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.