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Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

Hi Daniel,

I just downloaded the two mp3 files. Well well, the duck is in there as well.
;-) (inside joke)
About the SD and BD... what you posted is most likely not what people
expected. I think that people will also expect 909/808-alikes in a
drummachine... they might just not yet be ready for a machine that "only"
offers new things. :-)

In the MD_bassnare demo you posted, I love the percussion sound that's added
with the tape delay-alike thing on it... this will be great for trancy mixes
imo!!! I can't switch on my monitors right now, but when listening through
headphones, I'd say the BD doesn't have the same "punch" as a 909 etc... I'll
send you some MP3 samples which show what it should be able to do imo.

Bye,
Joeri

Daniel Hansson wrote:

> I will shamelessly try use you elektron_users as test-panel for the
> Machinedrum. As some of you found the published demos to be lacking of
> powerful bass and snaredrums I've posted an example in the files area that
> I'd like to get your response to. Not that I think that should our main
> selling point, but why not try to get that right as well. :)
>
> You who did not like the published demos, please download the
> md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3 and give me some feedback on what you think is
> good / lacking in the bass/snare-drum aspect.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Hansson, Elektron
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by diabolik@mindspring.com

Is this the correct link?:
http://www.machinedrum.com/md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3

If so, I'm getting an page error. Anyone else?

thnx



elektron-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 
I will shamelessly try use you elektron_users as test-panel for the
Machinedrum. As some of you found the published demos to be lacking of
powerful bass and snaredrums I've posted an example in the files area that
I'd like to get your response to. Not that I think that should our main
selling point, but why not try to get that right as well. :)

You who did not like the published demos, please download the
md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3 and give me some feedback on what you think is
good / lacking in the bass/snare-drum aspect.

Thanks,

Daniel Hansson, Elektron



 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by BLAINE BUXTON

Go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elektron-users/files/md_demo

If that doesn't get ya there, then just sign in into
http://www.yahoogroups.com
and go to the elektron-users group and look under the files section...

This one got me too...=) DOH!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blaine Buxton   "You spell Blaine, B-L-A-I-N-E, right?"
Mental Hygiene                                     -Alice Cooper
http://home.earthlink.net/~bbuxton/

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: <diabolik@...>
To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd


> Is this the correct link?:
> http://www.machinedrum.com/md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3
>
> If so, I'm getting an page error. Anyone else?
>
> thnx
>
>
>
> elektron-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> I will shamelessly try use you elektron_users as test-panel for the
> Machinedrum. As some of you found the published demos to be lacking of
> powerful bass and snaredrums I've posted an example in the files area that
> I'd like to get your response to. Not that I think that should our main
> selling point, but why not try to get that right as well. :)
>
> You who did not like the published demos, please download the
> md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3 and give me some feedback on what you think is
> good / lacking in the bass/snare-drum aspect.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Hansson, Elektron
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Daniel Hansson

...no... It's groups.yahoo.com and then login, and then go to files and
then md_demo. And you'll find the demo-file.

Joeri: time to update that join-group-message? Onelist - that was two
merges ago! :)

Daniel
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 diabolik@... wrote:

> Is this the correct link?:
> http://www.machinedrum.com/md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3
> 
> If so, I'm getting an page error. Anyone else?
> 
> thnx
> 
> 
> 
> elektron-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > 
> I will shamelessly try use you elektron_users as test-panel for the
> Machinedrum. As some of you found the published demos to be lacking of
> powerful bass and snaredrums I've posted an example in the files area that
> I'd like to get your response to. Not that I think that should our main
> selling point, but why not try to get that right as well. :)
> 
> You who did not like the published demos, please download the
> md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3 and give me some feedback on what you think is
> good / lacking in the bass/snare-drum aspect.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Daniel Hansson, Elektron
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

Hi,

> ...and I'm happy to be criticised for that.

Correct, but I'll try to be constructive! :)))

> Listen to that kick drum, and then check out the kick in the wav sample on
> this page:
> http://www.infected.co.il/Studio/Bassdrum/How_Bassdrum.htm
> and then keep in mind that the Kick.wav on their page is much less
> powerful than the kicks they feature in their full tracks.

Well, if it's the small wav file you mean, then it can not be used in a normal
mix imo. Actually, I used to make such bassdrums myself as well and every time I
went with my "master tapes" to any mastering engineer, they started complaining
about the bassdrums: there are waaaaay too many low freqs in it! Try to put this
on vinyl and you're in big trouble, I assure you. At least, you have to compress
this sound like crazy and then EQ it to make it suitable for normal mixing.

> At any rate, the md_bass demo's kick is just weak and hollow compared to
> the kick.wav.  I can understand if it were an "analogue kick", but if
> you're using a digital dsp, you should be able to get a pretty sharp kick
> if you want to.

???? The best bassdrums are made with analog drum-machines imo. :-) Apparently
our taste differs a lot. :)
A good reference is the Jomox XBase which is known to have one of the best
bassdrums on this universe, next to the good ol' 909 of course.

Anyway, I won't send my final comments on this new MD demo tonight because I
want to listen to it on my monitors, but as for now, I'd say: it's much better
already, but still not "perfect".

Bye,
Joeri


--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

> Joeri: time to update that join-group-message? Onelist - that was two
> merges ago! :)

Ahem... yes boss! :-)
I'll try to do so asap, but I'm overworked already (as you know :-).

Bye,
Joeri

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

Hi Daniel and Brendan,

> Question: Is this this kind of bassdrum you other people like best?
>
Yes, sort of... I also want such things (and you know what music I'm into), but
not exactly this BD... but it gives an idea of the "kind" of things we also
want. You know those typical Yamaha synths? Well, they have such digital
bassdrums too (albeit samples) and that's what also needed imo.

Brendan:

> I tried following their formula in Sonic Foundry, and actually found it
> harder than I expected.

Indeed... tip: try to layer several types of bassdrums and EQ and compress: you
get very nice results out of that which come close to this example!

> I've also had no luck in getting stomper to
> produce such a kick.

Stomper can do such BD's very well. I'd recommend to look at the examples and
see what they did there. try to start from their presets and alter them...
exercise!!!! I personally love Stomper's sound, but I don't like to work with
the mouse for programming sounds... so the "Stomper model" in the Machinedrum
would be great. :)

> > Question: Is this this kind of bassdrum you other people like best?
> Good question, I won't be surprised to be alone :)

I like it too, but I want the sounds to be "controlled" a bit more because this
one would be a nightmare to fit in any mix. :)

Bye,
Joeri
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Brendan Reville

> Well, if it's the small wav file you mean, then it can not be used in a normal
> mix imo. Actually, I used to make such bassdrums myself as well and every time I
> went with my "master tapes" to any mastering engineer, they started complaining
> about the bassdrums: there are waaaaay too many low freqs in it! Try to put this
> on vinyl and you're in big trouble, I assure you. At least, you have to compress
> this sound like crazy and then EQ it to make it suitable for normal mixing.

Interesting.  Well, like I keep saying (and I'll stop now :), check out
their full tracks to hear how their style of kicks fit into their mix.. 

> ???? The best bassdrums are made with analog drum-machines imo. :-) Apparently
> our taste differs a lot. :)
> A good reference is the Jomox XBase which is known to have one of the best
> bassdrums on this universe, next to the good ol' 909 of course.

Hmm, my friend has a 909.. I think, just like the 303, it needs some
effect magic to actually sound like how you hear it on records..

- Brendan

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Martin Gustafsson

A bd-snd that can be all from nice and soft like old rythmbox style to hard hitting dancefloor kick.
Then I would buy it. 
On the other hand, I would buy it anyway, since I´m very satisfied with my Sidstation and the support I´ve recieved.
More parameters to change, easier to get in a mix.
And the BD should go on a seperate output, of course.
Long decay for those electro beats. Hard cut and filter for the dancefloor. Listen to TR909, TR808, old electric organs rynthmboxes, experimental new electronica.


/Martin

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Daniel Hansson" <daniel@...>
To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd


> 
> Thanks alot!
> 
> That gives me a hint of what you were looking for. Actually that kind of
> bassdrum would be really easy to recreate, mainly just an FM-pitched
> sinewave. Really digital and really punchy - I agree. My objection would
> be that it is very hard to use such a bassdrum in a mix. It takes too much
> space.
> 
> Question: Is this this kind of bassdrum you other people like best?
> 
> I guess we've been more focused on more frequency-saving (analogue-like) 
> stuff :). I'll keep this sample in mind. It wouldn't be hard to
> implement...
> 
> Daniel
> 
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2001, Brendan Reville wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > I will shamelessly try use you elektron_users as test-panel for the
> > > Machinedrum. As some of you found the published demos to be lacking of
> > > powerful bass and snaredrums I've posted an example in the files area that
> > > I'd like to get your response to. Not that I think that should our main
> > > selling point, but why not try to get that right as well. :)
> > > 
> > > You who did not like the published demos, please download the
> > > md_demo/md_bassnare.mp3 and give me some feedback on what you think is
> > > good / lacking in the bass/snare-drum aspect.
> > 
> > I'm going to put my feedback on the list because I know that what I'm
> > looking for in a sound is probably different to what a lot of others are
> > looking for, and I'm happy to be criticised for that.
> > 
> > Listen to that kick drum, and then check out the kick in the wav sample on
> > this page:
> > 
> > http://www.infected.co.il/Studio/Bassdrum/How_Bassdrum.htm
> > 
> > and then keep in mind that the Kick.wav on their page is much less
> > powerful than the kicks they feature in their full tracks.
> > 
> > At any rate, the md_bass demo's kick is just weak and hollow compared to
> > the kick.wav.  I can understand if it were an "analogue kick", but if
> > you're using a digital dsp, you should be able to get a pretty sharp kick
> > if you want to.
> > 
> > Snare-wise, I'm spoilt by whatever infected mushroom use for their snares,
> > which i suspect might be samples of real snares, they have way more
> > crunch.
> > 
> > I've got the classical mushroom album by infected mushroom playing right
> > now... basically, i actually recommend you take a listen (either buy it or
> > try napster).  Sure, everything is processed, and they're all probably
> > samples, but this sets the standard for how bright and sharp i expect my
> > percussion to be.  ("dracul", "mush mushi" and "the missed symphony" have
> > pretty nice percussion.)
> > 
> > but i imagine cheesy goa isn't your target market, so take my opinions
> > with the appropriate perspective.  I think I'm just looking for something
> > different out of a drum machine.  Certainly the "character" of the
> > machinedrum fits with the character of the sidstation, so it's quite
> > likely you're doing everything right!  best wishes.
> > 
> > - Brendan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

> Hmm, my friend has a 909.. I think, just like the 303, it needs some
> effect magic to actually sound like how you hear it on records..

Very true!!!!!! But the nice thing about analog is that it's very easy to change its
sound! It can be manipulated very well by EQ's, comp's etc etc...

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Brendan Reville

> Indeed... tip: try to layer several types of bassdrums and EQ and compress: you
> get very nice results out of that which come close to this example!

Yup, this is why I suspected a simple FM with pitch bend wasn't enough.  
I remember Stomper supports multilayering for its kicks, and I did suspect
that it takes a few seperate layers to get both a nice punch on top and
nice bass below.

- Brendan

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

> and I did suspect
> that it takes a few seperate layers to get both a nice punch on top and
> nice bass below.

Actually, most of the character of a BD is not made in its low-frequencies, but in
its higher frequencies!
You get the extra "punch" by adding some hi-frequencies!!! In the XBase e.g. you can
add a pulse signal and a noise signal to the BD to make it punchier, and it really
works! On itself it sounds strange, but in the mix it's splendid!

Hope this helps

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Brendan Reville

> Actually, most of the character of a BD is not made in its low-frequencies, but in
> its higher frequencies!
> You get the extra "punch" by adding some hi-frequencies!!! In the XBase e.g. you can
> add a pulse signal and a noise signal to the BD to make it punchier, and it really
> works! On itself it sounds strange, but in the mix it's splendid!

Cool.  It's this kind of richness that I was led to expect that the
machinedrum would feature, and which I hope it does!

> Hope this helps

very much

- Brendan

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by mr klown

Daniel-

I'm not sure if the Machinedrum can realtime change, but if it can, this 
might be a better way to demonstrate the bd and sd:  Due a recording with 
the drum morphing through all the different sort of types of kicks you can 
make it produce, giving people a better idea of the range of the machine.  
Its easier to find the hit that impresses each individual if you throw 30 of 
them at them rather then just one.

{mr}klown

*  http://www.mp3.com/stations/station505  *
*  http://www.mp3.com/deadgirlgoodgirl     *
*  http://www.mp3.com/mrklown              *

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Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-02-24 by Björn Fogelberg

> Listen to that kick drum, and then check out the kick in the wav sample on
> this page:
> 
> http://www.infected.co.il/Studio/Bassdrum/How_Bassdrum.htm
> 
> and then keep in mind that the Kick.wav on their page is much less
> powerful than the kicks they feature in their full tracks.

Coolness! But I think it would be much easier to get the same kind of stomping bass with the program Stomper. Great analogue kicks are really easy to do!

/Björn Fogelberg
----------------------------------------------------------
Support me by listening to my music at www.mp3.com/BjornFogelberg
My site: www.fogelberg.com
My main project: www.analoguesamples.com
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: [elektron] Machinedrum bd_sd

2001-03-01 by holmes808@hotmail.com

This is a good idea. 

Question: I noticed the BD sound shifting a little bit in this demo. 
The effect sounds as if the BD is actually two layered sounds 
(seperate attack and sustain) whose timing relationship was changing 
a bit. Was this due to live tweaking or inherent randomness in the 
synth models? 

Overall I think this machine sounds great. It has the character of 
some well-known analogue beat boxes (Korg minipops and Roland CR 8000 
come to mind) but apparently with extensive programmability and 
hopefully a full-featured sequencer. As some have pointed out, .MP3's 
aren't the best way to demo a synth and it would be nice to hear a 
few 256kb samples to get a little more detail than the 128kb files 
reveal. Also remember that we're listening to the RAW sound of the 
machine here. EQ, compression and an old DBX boom box on the kick and 
snare will take them wherever you need them to go imo. Hats already 
sound crisp and super electronic and, again, the appropriate 
processing and effects can freak them out. 

I've noticed that sometimes musicians who are used to modern roland, 
yamaha, etc. instruments have come to expect album-ready sounds to 
come straight out of a machine because of all the built-in effects 
the big manufacturers throw in. Personally, I prefer a synth company 
to focus on raw sound programmability and quality at the expense of 
the "wow, that sounds just like my favorite record" impression you 
can get from a fully-effected demo. The only problem is you either 
have to get an extensive in-person demo where you can hook the 
machine up to various outboard gear or try to "imagine" what it will 
sound like through your favorite processors/effects.

Here's what would help me and probably everyone else on this list 
figure out if they're going to drop ~$1000 US on a beat box that 
might never show up at the local music shop for an in-person demo: 1) 
A list of built-in effects and which ones are being used in the 
demo's. 2) More and higher bitrate demo files. 3) Full spec on the 
sequencer. 4) Detailed synth engine specs of the various "machines" 
and whether or not any of the sounds are actually samples.

--- In elektron-users@y..., "mr klown" <klown_mr@h...> wrote:
> Daniel-
> 
> I'm not sure if the Machinedrum can realtime change, but if it can, 
this 
> might be a better way to demonstrate the bd and sd:  Due a 
recording with 
> the drum morphing through all the different sort of types of kicks 
you can 
> make it produce, giving people a better idea of the range of the 
machine.  
> Its easier to find the hit that impresses each individual if you 
throw 30 of 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> them at them rather then just one.
> 
> {mr}klown
> 
> *  http://www.mp3.com/stations/station505  *
> *  http://www.mp3.com/deadgirlgoodgirl     *
> *  http://www.mp3.com/mrklown              *
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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