Elektron Musical Instruments

Greetings,

One thing I would love to see, which would be easy to implement, is 
a "record joystick to locks" mode.  You could put this on a fifth 
page under Kit-->Assign.  In this mode, you could record any joystick 
motions, _except_ for pitch modulation.  Historically, pitch-mod has 
always been a signed 14-bit entity while CC's are 8 bit.  They have 
always been treated as separate beasts, so no need to treat them the 
same as far as locks go.  Switching to "record locks" could either 
disable pitch-mod, or just re-map it to a modified 8-bit "tune" 
lock.  If it is too difficult, you wouldn't need to include multi-
octave pitch shifting in this mode.  Plus, dropping the bottom 6 bits 
off the bottom of the pitch mod is easy to code.  Having pitch-shift 
available in "performance mode" would be the default setting, and all 
presets could be written in this mode (since they are being written 
right now?).  This additional mode would not require changing the 
lock data structure.

Being able to record parameter locks (minus pitch shift) with the 
joystick would be _extremely_ useful.  I seldom, if ever use pitch-
shift anyway - I'm not a guitarist, and I don't need no freekin 
whammy bar on my synth!  Having "performance mode" and "lock record" 
mode choices wouldn't be hard at all.  I'm sure that the first review 
printed about the MnM will criticize its inability to record the 
joystick... why not bypass this criticism from the beginning?  If I 
knew I couldn't record locks from the joystick I might have waited 
for a mythical rack version... it was a huge (misguided) selling 
point.

Another encoder-related recommendation. For 1-bit on/off parameters - 
why not check the sign of the encoder value change instead of using 
(it seems) an 8 bit value split in the middle?  Having to rotate the 
encoder a long way to go from on to off is a little irritating.

My encoders "jump" periodically - that is, they do not always 
increase monotonically while I rotate it in one direction.  Turn each 
knob far enough, and they all exhibit this behavior.  This is easy to 
see in testmode, but also is noticable (intermittently) when editing 
synth parameters. Is this typical?  

-gerald

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 01:30:05AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
>    Being able to record parameter locks (minus pitch shift) with the
>    joystick would be _extremely_ useful.

I agree. But Daniel just piped in this past week to say that it isn't
possible, given the MnM's data structures.

>    If I
>    knew I couldn't record locks from the joystick I might have waited
>    for a mythical rack version... it was a huge (misguided) selling
>    point.

hmmm....I don't know about all that. they didn't market the joystick as
being anything other than a programmable parameter controller. this
makes it an incredible asset for live work, since you can assign your
favorite parameters to it and change them without paging through menus
(and while playing the keys).

see the great thing about the joystick is that you can get some
parameters to interact in ways that you might not have found otherwise;
and the locks would be nice for that. however, the joystick still adds a
great deal of expression to an already expressive synth; which makes it a
significant selling point for me.

>    My encoders "jump" periodically - that is, they do not always
>    increase monotonically while I rotate it in one direction.  Turn each
>    knob far enough, and they all exhibit this behavior.  This is easy to
>    see in testmode, but also is noticable (intermittently) when editing
>    synth parameters. Is this typical?

I think it's a bug they've never caught, personally; because it also
happens in the MD occasionally. *however* I don't know if I've ever seen
it in normal programming mode; only in special menus (LFO menu on the
MD, arp menu on the MnM, etc.).

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 01:30:05AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
>   Being able to record parameter locks (minus pitch shift) with the
>   joystick would be _extremely_ useful.
> 
> I agree. But Daniel just piped in this past week to say that 
> it isn't possible, given the MnM's data structures.
> 

Actually, he said: "The main reason you can not record the joystick 
is that there is no place for recording the pitch destinations in the 
sequencer." 

To which I reply:  Pitch be damned! I want to record the other 198 
parameters! ;)  Plus, if my suggestion was adopted, it wouldn't 
impact your playing enjoyment in the least, Joe.  Totally transparent.

-gerald

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 04:21:51AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
>    Actually, he said: "The main reason you can not record the joystick
>    is that there is no place for recording the pitch destinations in the
>    sequencer."

ahhh.... I stand corrected (and apparently my memory's pretty bad :-)

>    To which I reply:  Pitch be damned! I want to record the other 198
>    parameters! ;)  Plus, if my suggestion was adopted, it wouldn't
>    impact your playing enjoyment in the least, Joe.  Totally transparent.

I know it won't and I wasn't suggesting that it would. reread my post -
I agreed that locks for the joystick would be fantastic. I just
disagreed with your implication that the joystick is useless without
locks.

so yes, if it is possible then I think Elektron should try and implement
it.

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 04:21:51AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
> so yes, if it is possible then I think Elektron should try and 
implement
> it.

I would really like this feature to. The joystick is an excellent way 
to input parameters since it can adres two parameters at once wich 
are on different pages. Also pitch can be left out, no problem.
It was one of my first feature requests btw.

So please look into this one more time!!!!

Ronald.

PS. If it's absolutely impossible I will still love the MnM very much.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 04:21:51AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
> > so yes, if it is possible then I think Elektron should try and 
> implement
> > it.
> 
> I would really like this feature to. The joystick is an excellent 
way 
> to input parameters since it can adres two parameters at once wich 
> are on different pages. Also pitch can be left out, no problem.
> It was one of my first feature requests btw.
> 
> So please look into this one more time!!!!
> 
> Ronald.
> 
> PS. If it's absolutely impossible I will still love the MnM very 
much.

Yeah, my thoughts too! Left the pitch (I'm no guitarplayer either ;) 
and make it recordable! The joystick is really great for doing 
animated sounds. There should be possiablity to record these too, 
defineatly!

Toni.

I too. feel that the joystick almost gets waisted for not being recordable.
Daniel we can do without pitch on the joystick! but the rest is vital!
same thing goes for a pressure sensitive keyboard.
Nevertheless MnM is a great synth

>From: "Roonan" <info@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [elektron] MnM joystick locks / encoder questions [daniel]
>Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 08:24:21 -0000
>
>--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 04:21:51AM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
> > so yes, if it is possible then I think Elektron should try and
>implement
> > it.
>
>I would really like this feature to. The joystick is an excellent way
>to input parameters since it can adres two parameters at once wich
>are on different pages. Also pitch can be left out, no problem.
>It was one of my first feature requests btw.
>
>So please look into this one more time!!!!
>
>Ronald.
>
>PS. If it's absolutely impossible I will still love the MnM very much.
>

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On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 10:30:33PM +0000, chris parmenidis wrote:
>    same thing goes for a pressure sensitive keyboard.

do the MnM machines react to aftertouch, though?

Joe

I'll cast my vote for joystick recording to parameter locks, this would 
be very awesome!  Pitch doesn't matter much.

If that isn't possible, maybe at least a proper 'permanent freeze' 
function that would set parameters to the current joystick values.  I 
know this wouldn't be as fun though. *Proper meaning something other 
than the 'switch tracks' trick.

cheers
ripe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "oldmanfury" <erinys@s...> 
wrote:

> One thing I would love to see, which would be easy to implement,
> is a "record joystick to locks" mode.  You could put this on a
> fifth page under Kit-->Assign.

Wouldn't global be a better place to control such a thing? And try 
to turn off Mirror on all joy pages. Then you can see there is no 
room for more pages in the Assign window.

> Historically, pitch-mod has 
> always been a signed 14-bit entity while CC's are 8 bit.  They
> have always been treated as separate beasts, so no need to treat
> them the same as far as locks go. 

But this is all technical mumbo jumbo. :) From the users point of 
view is that some joy movement would be recorded, and some wouldn't. 
The Joy L/R can be assigned also to other things than pitch, and 
pitch can also give a non-pitched feeling if sync to previous track 
is used.

> If it is too difficult, you wouldn't need to include multi-
> octave pitch shifting in this mode.  Plus, dropping the bottom 6
> bits off the bottom of the pitch mod is easy to code.

The problem is not about dropping bits, but to allow a way to edit a 
pitch, that can be located at any cent on the full 14 octaves.

> Being able to record parameter locks (minus pitch shift) with the 
> joystick would be _extremely_ useful.

[...]

> it was a huge (misguided) selling point.

Come on... We almost didn't say anything about the Monomachine 
before we released the beta units, so I can't understand how you 
could read in that the joystick should be recordable in the 
sequencer. From our point of view it was always intended as a 
realtime tool. Like the crossfader on a dj-mixer.

> Another encoder-related recommendation. For 1-bit on/off
> parameters - why not check the sign of the encoder value change
> instead of using (it seems) an 8 bit value split in the middle?

The discrete values are treated differently than continuous ones. 
For discrete you need to turn with a speed over a certain value. 
This is so you don't turn it by mistake by just touching it, but to 
rather get the feeling of a switch-knob with clear detents.

> My encoders "jump" periodically - that is, they do not always 
> increase monotonically while I rotate it in one direction.

If one encoder "jumps" when you turn it after entering a window, or 
after changing a track, then it is a bug, and we gladly accept a 
report of it.

To end (?) the joystick lock discussion: We are aware that some 
people feel very strongly about this feature. We have noticed that, 
but there won't be any feature additions for OS1.0. If we find there 
is a good enough way of doing it we might add it in the future, but 
it won't happen right away.

Daniel

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_elektron" 
<daniel@e...> wrote:
> To end (?) the joystick lock discussion: We are aware that some 
> people feel very strongly about this feature. We have noticed that, 
> but there won't be any feature additions for OS1.0. If we find 
there 
> is a good enough way of doing it we might add it in the future, but 
> it won't happen right away.

I'll keep my fingers crossed :-)

Ronald.

PS. Thanks already for the features wich were implemented on request.