Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi,

I like my MD a lot, but I also find that do a lot of tweaking after
I've recorded the MD patterns to get it sound better (and yes, I've
tried to re-record a lot). What I mean is for example snare; I find my
self always looking for the great thick snare sound and usually I just
can't get it. So I'm looking for some post-processing  tips (and tips
for MD) which I could put to good use. I'm not particulary looking
tips concersing MD internal machines. I believe people here have some
good knowledge and it still involves MD, because I want MD to sound
best possible. Here are some examples:

1. I've found that using individual output (for example C) for kick,
helps the kick sound. It doesn't have to 'compete' with other
instruments so much and the compressor won't mess it up (because of
other instrument sounds). How to get really good thumping kick? I
believe it has to everything with the bass sound on a same track?

2. For the thickening of snares I use technique called doubleing. I
create a small delay (few ms really) and pan the delays a little. This
makes snare a little more thick and also a stereo. It sounds better
this way. But not thick enough.

3. I never use MD master eq or I use it just a little. I've found that
  MD is allready a very bright one, so ne need to eq it anyway. If I
use it, I use it just a few ticks (like 6 or 8) on a midrange to help
snare. Yours method may differ from this?

4. I never ever managed to use compressor on a snare or a kick.
Everybody is yelling (especially in forums, like kvr-vst) that
everything should go through compressor (the compressor-religion to me
it really is and shows nothing but lack of skills). I don't find it
very usefull. I mean I know how they work and I can hear different
attack/release times, but it really is a very minor effect, which
makes me yawn. Making a good balance with faders counts a lot more
than compressor. Am I right, how do people use the compressors and to
be exact: what is it that you are trying to do with the compressors
(is it anything more than a 'lets rock it!'-attitude?)?


Well there are some questions and tips. What I'm after is pro-sounding
beats that can compete with big names, not just
'very-good-for-an-bedroom-musician' stuff. And I'm trying to do it
with MD. I have a feeling that it would be easier with samples (of
other people records), but I'm not ready give up. I want to build up a
good craftman skills rather than sample other people works.

Toni.
ps. a little ranting there, but it goes a long way..

I don't use the compressor much either.  It just doesn't do much for 
me either.  

I do the same with the bd.  That's what you should do with any 
sampler or drum machine with multiple outs.  Sometimes you could also 
put the snare on it's own out.  

I also find in the stereo outs I should pan different parts in 
different areas.  This is also good with the stereo delay.  I pan it 
like a real drum kit is set up.  After I pan everything I use the 
filters in the routing? menu.  Not the synth menu.  This puts the 
drums in a high or low part in the pan.  The pan is left and right, 
and the filter is up and down.  

I think the filter will really put the snare out there.  Not to 
mention using the multiple trigs.  I haven't done this yet.  But once 
you get one sanre set in the stereo pan copy that machine and make 
another one in the same pan and everything but change the synth 
parameters.  I haven't done this yet.  I've just been thinking about 
it.     

gotta play condition zero bye.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
<toni.ahvenainen@p...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I like my MD a lot, but I also find that do a lot of tweaking after
> I've recorded the MD patterns to get it sound better (and yes, I've
> tried to re-record a lot). What I mean is for example snare; I find 
my
> self always looking for the great thick snare sound and usually I 
just
> can't get it. So I'm looking for some post-processing  tips (and 
tips
> for MD) which I could put to good use. I'm not particulary looking
> tips concersing MD internal machines. I believe people here have 
some
> good knowledge and it still involves MD, because I want MD to sound
> best possible. Here are some examples:
> 
> 1. I've found that using individual output (for example C) for kick,
> helps the kick sound. It doesn't have to 'compete' with other
> instruments so much and the compressor won't mess it up (because of
> other instrument sounds). How to get really good thumping kick? I
> believe it has to everything with the bass sound on a same track?
> 
> 2. For the thickening of snares I use technique called doubleing. I
> create a small delay (few ms really) and pan the delays a little. 
This
> makes snare a little more thick and also a stereo. It sounds better
> this way. But not thick enough.
> 
> 3. I never use MD master eq or I use it just a little. I've found 
that
>   MD is allready a very bright one, so ne need to eq it anyway. If I
> use it, I use it just a few ticks (like 6 or 8) on a midrange to 
help
> snare. Yours method may differ from this?
> 
> 4. I never ever managed to use compressor on a snare or a kick.
> Everybody is yelling (especially in forums, like kvr-vst) that
> everything should go through compressor (the compressor-religion to 
me
> it really is and shows nothing but lack of skills). I don't find it
> very usefull. I mean I know how they work and I can hear different
> attack/release times, but it really is a very minor effect, which
> makes me yawn. Making a good balance with faders counts a lot more
> than compressor. Am I right, how do people use the compressors and 
to
> be exact: what is it that you are trying to do with the compressors
> (is it anything more than a 'lets rock it!'-attitude?)?
> 
> 
> Well there are some questions and tips. What I'm after is pro-
sounding
> beats that can compete with big names, not just
> 'very-good-for-an-bedroom-musician' stuff. And I'm trying to do it
> with MD. I have a feeling that it would be easier with samples (of
> other people records), but I'm not ready give up. I want to build 
up a

> good craftman skills rather than sample other people works.
> 
> Toni.
> ps. a little ranting there, but it goes a long way..

On Aug 22, 2004, at 6:04 AM, tahvenaine2002 wrote:

>  2. For the thickening of snares I use technique called doubleing. I
>  create a small delay (few ms really) and pan the delays a little. This
>  makes snare a little more thick and also a stereo. It sounds better
>  this way. But not thick enough.

I've never tried this.  but my MD snare tip is to copy the track trigs 
to another track
and then change that track's machine to a tom sound. then turn it down 
very low
with a medium amount of decay.  you shouldn't be able to tell that it's 
a tom sound,
but it should thicken up your snare.  if you take a real physical snare 
drum and
turn the snares off, it sounds like a high-pitched tom; you can hear 
the body of the
drum. once the snares are on, they create a noise effect and blend with 
this body
sound; that's what makes a real drum sound thick/full. so when your MD 
snare
has too much noise and not enough body, adding this tom sound on another
track should do the trick.  you just need to be careful to balance the 
levels right
so that it doesn't sound like a tom but like they are the same 
instrument.

you can also use the multiple trigging option for this, but I don't 
since I usually
have some quiet snare "ghost" notes that I don't want to add this sound 
to.

> Am I right, how do people use the compressors and to
>  be exact: what is it that you are trying to do with the compressors
>  (is it anything more than a 'lets rock it!'-attitude?)?

I use the compressor and the EQ just to make my beats a bit more 
punchy.  the EQ is
less necessary than the compressor, since you can do that on individual 
tracks
(less drastically though; but it's usually enough).  but if you have 
the compressor
set up right and then A/B that with the uncompressed mix, you'll 
definitely hear a
difference.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

this is a good read.

one way to add some beef to your kick might be to add a GND sin machine and chain it
to your kick.

in re: snares, sound on sound published a useful article that is logic-specific, but
the tips are applicable to eany sequencer or signal processing environment.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/articles/logicnotes.htm?session=3e9dd50cfde232d3313d26176fc0e5c8


recording and audio production ain't my forte - my practical skills lie elsewhere - so
i find threads like this to be immensely valuable.  thanks!


-- 
yours,
niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
http://syncretism.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Toni,

I can tell you that it is all about compression. Those people on the 
KVR-VST forums are right. It is not about lack of skills - this is how 
you get huge sounding kick and snare sounds, and pull your drums up in 
a mix. I would suggest going out an investing in an engineering book to 
understand some basics of classic recording technique. It may sound 
corny - but I have seen multi-platinum record producers with these 
books inhand.

/m

On Aug 22, 2004, at 5:04 AM, tahvenaine2002 wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I like my MD a lot, but I also find that do a lot of tweaking after
> I've recorded the MD patterns to get it sound better (and yes, I've
> tried to re-record a lot). What I mean is for example snare; I find my
> self always looking for the great thick snare sound and usually I just
> can't get it. So I'm looking for some post-processing  tips (and tips
> for MD) which I could put to good use. I'm not particulary looking
> tips concersing MD internal machines. I believe people here have some
> good knowledge and it still involves MD, because I want MD to sound
> best possible. Here are some examples:
>
> 1. I've found that using individual output (for example C) for kick,
> helps the kick sound. It doesn't have to 'compete' with other
> instruments so much and the compressor won't mess it up (because of
> other instrument sounds). How to get really good thumping kick? I
> believe it has to everything with the bass sound on a same track?
>
> 2. For the thickening of snares I use technique called doubleing. I
> create a small delay (few ms really) and pan the delays a little. This
> makes snare a little more thick and also a stereo. It sounds better
> this way. But not thick enough.
>
> 3. I never use MD master eq or I use it just a little. I've found that
>   MD is allready a very bright one, so ne need to eq it anyway. If I
> use it, I use it just a few ticks (like 6 or 8) on a midrange to help
> snare. Yours method may differ from this?
>
> 4. I never ever managed to use compressor on a snare or a kick.
> Everybody is yelling (especially in forums, like kvr-vst) that
> everything should go through compressor (the compressor-religion to me
> it really is and shows nothing but lack of skills). I don't find it
> very usefull. I mean I know how they work and I can hear different
> attack/release times, but it really is a very minor effect, which
> makes me yawn. Making a good balance with faders counts a lot more
> than compressor. Am I right, how do people use the compressors and to
> be exact: what is it that you are trying to do with the compressors
> (is it anything more than a 'lets rock it!'-attitude?)?
>
>
> Well there are some questions and tips. What I'm after is pro-sounding
> beats that can compete with big names, not just
> 'very-good-for-an-bedroom-musician' stuff. And I'm trying to do it
> with MD. I have a feeling that it would be easier with samples (of
> other people records), but I'm not ready give up. I want to build up a
> good craftman skills rather than sample other people works.
>
> Toni.
> ps. a little ranting there, but it goes a long way..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Compression is a matter of taste.  Yes multi-platinum producers use
it, but you don't need it.  Just like you don't need a harmonizer with
a good singer.  You can say it's "punchy" or "warm" but these are only
buzz words used since the early 90s when compressors became popular.  

When someone like lou reed says he doesn't like compression I believe
him.  Besides you lose some of the stereo specrtum.

I have to agree with the book idea.  But there are also many online
sources for this stuff.  It's a matter of taste and what you like. 
It's a subjective argument either way.  Just as the ear is subjective
as the eyes.


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Mati <zurich.enteract@r...> wrote:

> Toni,
> 
> I can tell you that it is all about compression. Those people on the 
> KVR-VST forums are right. It is not about lack of skills - this is how 
> you get huge sounding kick and snare sounds, and pull your drums up in 
> a mix. I would suggest going out an investing in an engineering book to 
> understand some basics of classic recording technique. It may sound 
> corny - but I have seen multi-platinum record producers with these 
> books inhand.
> 
> /m
> 
> On Aug 22, 2004, at 5:04 AM, tahvenaine2002 wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I like my MD a lot, but I also find that do a lot of tweaking after
> > I've recorded the MD patterns to get it sound better (and yes, I've
> > tried to re-record a lot). What I mean is for example snare; I find my
> > self always looking for the great thick snare sound and usually I just
> > can't get it. So I'm looking for some post-processing  tips (and tips
> > for MD) which I could put to good use. I'm not particulary looking
> > tips concersing MD internal machines. I believe people here have some
> > good knowledge and it still involves MD, because I want MD to sound
> > best possible. Here are some examples:
> >
> > 1. I've found that using individual output (for example C) for kick,
> > helps the kick sound. It doesn't have to 'compete' with other
> > instruments so much and the compressor won't mess it up (because of
> > other instrument sounds). How to get really good thumping kick? I
> > believe it has to everything with the bass sound on a same track?
> >
> > 2. For the thickening of snares I use technique called doubleing. I
> > create a small delay (few ms really) and pan the delays a little. This
> > makes snare a little more thick and also a stereo. It sounds better
> > this way. But not thick enough.
> >
> > 3. I never use MD master eq or I use it just a little. I've found that
> >   MD is allready a very bright one, so ne need to eq it anyway. If I
> > use it, I use it just a few ticks (like 6 or 8) on a midrange to help
> > snare. Yours method may differ from this?
> >
> > 4. I never ever managed to use compressor on a snare or a kick.
> > Everybody is yelling (especially in forums, like kvr-vst) that
> > everything should go through compressor (the compressor-religion to me
> > it really is and shows nothing but lack of skills). I don't find it
> > very usefull. I mean I know how they work and I can hear different
> > attack/release times, but it really is a very minor effect, which
> > makes me yawn. Making a good balance with faders counts a lot more
> > than compressor. Am I right, how do people use the compressors and to
> > be exact: what is it that you are trying to do with the compressors
> > (is it anything more than a 'lets rock it!'-attitude?)?
> >
> >
> > Well there are some questions and tips. What I'm after is pro-sounding
> > beats that can compete with big names, not just
> > 'very-good-for-an-bedroom-musician' stuff. And I'm trying to do it
> > with MD. I have a feeling that it would be easier with samples (of
> > other people records), but I'm not ready give up. I want to build up a
> > good craftman skills rather than sample other people works.
> >
> > Toni.
> > ps. a little ranting there, but it goes a long way..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

On Aug 22, 2004, at 10:44 PM, endlessnessisticman wrote:

>  I have to agree with the book idea.  But there are also many online
>  sources for this stuff.  It's a matter of taste and what you like.
>  It's a subjective argument either way.  Just as the ear is subjective
>  as the eyes.

I can't argue with that - if you like the way it sounds, compression or 
not,
then that's all that matters!

however, you should understand that should you send your completed
work to a mastering house, they will more than likely compress and 
limit it.
*especially* if it's to be played on the radio.  I'm not saying that to 
try
and make you think "oh well, might as well compress"; I'm just saying 
that
if you're anti compression, you might want to keep that in mind.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I definitely agree.  Sending your final product to a mastering house
is a good idea if you want to get airplay or some kind of profitable
production.  



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Melnyk <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:

> On Aug 22, 2004, at 10:44 PM, endlessnessisticman wrote:
> 
> >  I have to agree with the book idea.  But there are also many online
> >  sources for this stuff.  It's a matter of taste and what you like.
> >  It's a subjective argument either way.  Just as the ear is subjective
> >  as the eyes.
> 
> I can't argue with that - if you like the way it sounds, compression or 
> not,
> then that's all that matters!
> 
> however, you should understand that should you send your completed
> work to a mastering house, they will more than likely compress and 
> limit it.
> *especially* if it's to be played on the radio.  I'm not saying that to 
> try
> and make you think "oh well, might as well compress"; I'm just saying 
> that
> if you're anti compression, you might want to keep that in mind.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<endlessnessisticman@y...> wrote:
> I don't use the compressor much either.  It just doesn't do much for 
> me either.  
> 
Good to hear there is someone else too, that don't think compression
is the most important thing.

 
> I think the filter will really put the snare out there.  Not to 
> mention using the multiple trigs.  I haven't done this yet.  But once 
> you get one sanre set in the stereo pan copy that machine and make 
> another one in the same pan and everything but change the synth 
> parameters.  I haven't done this yet.  I've just been thinking about 
> it.     
of

Nice idea, I will try this one next time I'm with my MD (wednesday
that is).

Toni.

> in re: snares, sound on sound published a useful article that is
logic-specific, but
> the tips are applicable to eany sequencer or signal processing
environment.
> 
>
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/articles/logicnotes.htm?session=3e9dd50cfde232d3313d26176fc0e5c8
> 
> 

Yeah, Ive read it. There is also same kind of article of Kick processing..

Toni.

> Mati <zurich.enteract@r...> wrote:

> I can tell you that it is all about compression. Those people on the 
> KVR-VST forums are right. It is not about lack of skills - this is how 
> you get huge sounding kick and snare sounds, and pull your drums up in 
> a mix. I would suggest going out an investing in an engineering book to 
> understand some basics of classic recording technique. It may sound 
> corny - but I have seen multi-platinum record producers with these 
> books inhand.

When you tell me it's all about compression, it really sounds like
compression is more important than sound itself. I guess the
compression  matters some, but after the sound is right and the
balance is right. But lets say it's all about compression, then I'm
not going to believe that it is some magical process, that can't be
explained. I'm not talking about how-compressor-works, but what is it
that we are trying to achieve through it. What way should people try
to manipulate dynamics of drums with it. An example, is this what
should be done with compressor to get thick beefy beats:

Let's take the kick and smash it in compressor really hard, but so
that compressor reacts to kick a little late, so that it leaves a hard
attack to kick and lowers dynamics only after that. So the attack is
fairly slow and release is long. 

After this we could route the kick to eq and emphasis the frequency we
want to punch after attack.

So much for the example. What I mean to say, if somebody says is all
about to compression, it needs to be clarified somehow. What people
are exatcly doing with compressors, since they are so important. I've
found that people can't really answer to this, but they can answer
what should be done with eq, verbs and stuff like that. 

I'm not trying to rant here, I just want to hear if someone can offer
some explanation of this compression stuff, like you Mati or anyone
else. And I'm not speaking of ratios, Gain reduction or anything that
releates to compressor knobs.

As for the books, Ive read couple of them like:

Behind the Glass: Top Record Producers Tell How They Craft the Hits
(there are top-hit prodicers that don't use compression on bass or
kick at all.)
The Art of Mixing (Mix Pro Audio Series) 

I've been looking the Waves book, it has example projects (nuendo for
example) with waves-plugs on a cd. Might be usefull to see how they
have crafted the mixes.

Toni.

> I definitely agree.  Sending your final product to a mastering house
> is a good idea if you want to get airplay or some kind of profitable
> production.  
> 

I've mastered some of my works in a mastering house and don't bother
with multiband compression and limiters any more. I defineatly get
better stuff by paying someone more clever to do it. But it doesn't
make mixes sound good. It only makes them somewhat better, but nothing
more. If snare doesn't work good on a mix, it doesn't work good after
mastering it. But as a whole the song sounds more ready-made (is this
english).

Toni.

> When you tell me it's all about compression, it really sounds like
> compression is more important than sound itself. I guess the
> compression  matters some, but after the sound is right and the
> balance is right. But lets say it's all about compression, then I'm
> not going to believe that it is some magical process, that can't be
> explained. I'm not talking about how-compressor-works, but what is it
> that we are trying to achieve through it. What way should people try
> to manipulate dynamics of drums with it. An example, is this what
> should be done with compressor to get thick beefy beats:
>
> Let's take the kick and smash it in compressor really hard, but so
> that compressor reacts to kick a little late, so that it leaves a hard
> attack to kick and lowers dynamics only after that. So the attack is
> fairly slow and release is long.
>
> After this we could route the kick to eq and emphasis the frequency we
> want to punch after attack.
>
> So much for the example. What I mean to say, if somebody says is all
> about to compression, it needs to be clarified somehow. What people
> are exatcly doing with compressors, since they are so important. I've
> found that people can't really answer to this, but they can answer
> what should be done with eq, verbs and stuff like that.
>
> I'm not trying to rant here, I just want to hear if someone can offer
> some explanation of this compression stuff, like you Mati or anyone
> else. And I'm not speaking of ratios, Gain reduction or anything that
> releates to compressor knobs.
>
> As for the books, Ive read couple of them like:
>
> Behind the Glass: Top Record Producers Tell How They Craft the Hits
> (there are top-hit prodicers that don't use compression on bass or
> kick at all.)
> The Art of Mixing (Mix Pro Audio Series)
>
> I've been looking the Waves book, it has example projects (nuendo for
> example) with waves-plugs on a cd. Might be usefull to see how they
> have crafted the mixes.
>
> Toni.

Sure - a compressor is not going to make a shit sound anything other than a
compressed, maybe a bit more warm shit sound. But here is what my process is
with compression on drums.

When tracking - I usually run my kicks through a DBX 165 or 266XL with light
settings- the DBX stuff does a really good job of shaping the front of a
kick to add a little bit to soften or harden the preceived punch, while not
totally destroying the force of the drum over all. The DBX also adds a bit
of warmth and roundness to the sound, even though it is not tube. Really
depends on the kick, but this is what I do most of the time. Sometimes I
will run the kick through an ADL Tube DI with no compression if I just want
to warm it up and deal with dynamics in Protools or Logic.

With snares, depending on how they sit in the mix, sometimes I don't
compress them at all. Sometimes I slam them. If for example, I have a snare
in the MD, layered with something else, and a bit of reverb on it, a
compressor can bring out interesting "breath" type effects on the tail and
add a little bit of movement to the drum track.

Where I use compression the most in on a drum buss. Normally, my Joe Meek
SC2.2 if the drums are not super bass heavy. Or if they are really bassy,
then I will buss the entire drum mix through Vintage Warmer in Protools.
Usually, after bussing through the compression, I have to relevel the whole
drum mix as it will pull or push the hats and or percussion, but it really
give a good seperation from the rest of the mix and polishes up the drum
mix. As an effect - Vintage Warmer can really make a drum track rough and
gritty and less "straight out of a drum machine" if you hit it hard and play
with the drive and high and low frequency settings.

/m

It\ufffds not "all about compression",
But compression is not a bad thing.

A good limiter can help reduce the peak noises,
and make the beat a lot louder while still keeping the same character.
Especially on Bassdrums the attack has often too much DB.
Just watch the recorded Waveform in Wavelab for example and you
will see that the volume range is maybe consumed by a peak noise
that you don\ufffdt consider the main thing of the sound.

Also on Snares it can give you more punch.
Just set a slow attack, and a high ratio and
try to change the treshold and gain.
The "pumping effect" of a single band analogue compressor
could be what you are looking for.


Flo





Mati wrote:

>>When you tell me it's all about compression, it really sounds like
>>compression is more important than sound itself. I guess the
>>compression  matters some, but after the sound is right and the
>>balance is right. But lets say it's all about compression, then I'm
>>not going to believe that it is some magical process, that can't be
>>explained. I'm not talking about how-compressor-works, but what is it
>>that we are trying to achieve through it. What way should people try
>>to manipulate dynamics of drums with it. An example, is this what
>>should be done with compressor to get thick beefy beats:
>>
>>Let's take the kick and smash it in compressor really hard, but so
>>that compressor reacts to kick a little late, so that it leaves a hard
>>attack to kick and lowers dynamics only after that. So the attack is
>>fairly slow and release is long.
>>
>>After this we could route the kick to eq and emphasis the frequency we
>>want to punch after attack.
>>
>>So much for the example. What I mean to say, if somebody says is all
>>about to compression, it needs to be clarified somehow. What people
>>are exatcly doing with compressors, since they are so important. I've
>>found that people can't really answer to this, but they can answer
>>what should be done with eq, verbs and stuff like that.
>>
>>I'm not trying to rant here, I just want to hear if someone can offer
>>some explanation of this compression stuff, like you Mati or anyone
>>else. And I'm not speaking of ratios, Gain reduction or anything that
>>releates to compressor knobs.
>>
>>As for the books, Ive read couple of them like:
>>
>>Behind the Glass: Top Record Producers Tell How They Craft the Hits
>>(there are top-hit prodicers that don't use compression on bass or
>>kick at all.)
>>The Art of Mixing (Mix Pro Audio Series)
>>
>>I've been looking the Waves book, it has example projects (nuendo for
>>example) with waves-plugs on a cd. Might be usefull to see how they
>>have crafted the mixes.
>>
>>Toni.
> 
> 
> Sure - a compressor is not going to make a shit sound anything other than a
> compressed, maybe a bit more warm shit sound. But here is what my process is
> with compression on drums.
> 
> When tracking - I usually run my kicks through a DBX 165 or 266XL with light
> settings- the DBX stuff does a really good job of shaping the front of a
> kick to add a little bit to soften or harden the preceived punch, while not
> totally destroying the force of the drum over all. The DBX also adds a bit
> of warmth and roundness to the sound, even though it is not tube. Really
> depends on the kick, but this is what I do most of the time. Sometimes I
> will run the kick through an ADL Tube DI with no compression if I just want
> to warm it up and deal with dynamics in Protools or Logic.
> 
> With snares, depending on how they sit in the mix, sometimes I don't
> compress them at all. Sometimes I slam them. If for example, I have a snare
> in the MD, layered with something else, and a bit of reverb on it, a
> compressor can bring out interesting "breath" type effects on the tail and
> add a little bit of movement to the drum track.
> 
> Where I use compression the most in on a drum buss. Normally, my Joe Meek
> SC2.2 if the drums are not super bass heavy. Or if they are really bassy,
> then I will buss the entire drum mix through Vintage Warmer in Protools.
> Usually, after bussing through the compression, I have to relevel the whole
> drum mix as it will pull or push the hats and or percussion, but it really
> give a good seperation from the rest of the mix and polishes up the drum
> mix. As an effect - Vintage Warmer can really make a drum track rough and
> gritty and less "straight out of a drum machine" if you hit it hard and play
> with the drive and high and low frequency settings.
> 
> /m
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>

> Where I use compression the most in on a drum buss. Normally, my Joe
Meek
> SC2.2 if the drums are not super bass heavy. Or if they are really
bassy,
> then I will buss the entire drum mix through Vintage Warmer in Protools.
> Usually, after bussing through the compression, I have to relevel
the whole
> drum mix as it will pull or push the hats and or percussion, but it
really
> give a good seperation from the rest of the mix and polishes up the drum
> mix. As an effect - Vintage Warmer can really make a drum track
rough and
> gritty and less "straight out of a drum machine" if you hit it hard
and play
> with the drive and high and low frequency settings.

So you are kind of compressing and making rebalance through a
compressor. This sounds like a new approach to me, since all I've
tried is to compress individual tracks and that hasn't done much for
me. You are also making it more 'alive' with compressor because of
this 'breathing' and pumping. I guess I could try this kind of approach. 

I find it pretty hard to adjust myself to different kind of balance or
sound (with compressors or reverbs) after I've tweaked my MD to sound
right. I'm kind of protecting the Md sound and I guess this goes same
for anyone who has tweaked the sounds for days to get them right.

I like the way this conversation has brought up different angles in
production and surely been for everyones pleasure.

Toni.

there are definately two schools of compression, the first is the kind you
do not notice, the second is the slamming, pumping effect compression. at
the end of the day - depending on the context of your tracks, you may be
able to totally get away with little to no compression and keep your MD
tracks as clean as possible. if your ears are telling you it sounds right -
it is right.

these tricks are just things I picked up working with various producers over
the years, and trying to learn how these guys got the big drum sounds.

as for the comment about mastering and multiband compression or limiting - i
agree. dont even bother, IMHO it is better to have someone with fresh ears,
and an objective impression finish off your track. since they are not really
artistically bound to the track, they will do things you might not have
since you have an idea of how it should sound built up. mastering is usually
not THAT expensive, and IMHO worth every red cent.

/m

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "tahvenaine2002" <toni.ahvenainen@...>
To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [elektron] Processing tips for MD beats


>
> > Where I use compression the most in on a drum buss. Normally, my Joe
> Meek
> > SC2.2 if the drums are not super bass heavy. Or if they are really
> bassy,
> > then I will buss the entire drum mix through Vintage Warmer in Protools.
> > Usually, after bussing through the compression, I have to relevel
> the whole
> > drum mix as it will pull or push the hats and or percussion, but it
> really
> > give a good seperation from the rest of the mix and polishes up the drum
> > mix. As an effect - Vintage Warmer can really make a drum track
> rough and
> > gritty and less "straight out of a drum machine" if you hit it hard
> and play
> > with the drive and high and low frequency settings.
>
> So you are kind of compressing and making rebalance through a
> compressor. This sounds like a new approach to me, since all I've
> tried is to compress individual tracks and that hasn't done much for
> me. You are also making it more 'alive' with compressor because of
> this 'breathing' and pumping. I guess I could try this kind of approach.
>
> I find it pretty hard to adjust myself to different kind of balance or
> sound (with compressors or reverbs) after I've tweaked my MD to sound
> right. I'm kind of protecting the Md sound and I guess this goes same
> for anyone who has tweaked the sounds for days to get them right.
>
> I like the way this conversation has brought up different angles in
> production and surely been for everyones pleasure.
>
> Toni.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>